Frye/Ridnour for Thompson/Sessions?

[sactownfan]

OK the Bigs both are arguably underachieving on their contracts... Both are 6'11 and about the same size. One can stretch the floor for Rudy Gay and Cousins.... and no its not JT.... Im gonna be honest and just assume that Frye is not the defender JT is now (I don't know)... then again JT was never the defender his is now until .... right now... so maybe its just a effort or team thing? so maybe theres hope for Frye IF he isn't too good in that area... I think he would be a perfect fit onto this team. He also seems to be a class act kinda person and again that 3pt shooting would be huge....

Sessions for Ridnour.... any questions? lol! or Sessions for the ORL washing machine? any questions?

Seems like this would be possible if we wanted to do this deal. maybe we unload Williams also and land a draft pick? ORL could do some serious shopping for a new star if the wanted to dump Frye and any other contract running more than 1 yr.

 

[randymoss1881]

Besides the fact that this trade is a joke how is JT under performing?

 

[sactownfan]

Besides the fact that this trade is a joke how is JT under performing?

Well captain obvious its not an actual trade. Because I'm not the actual GM. Thats what u meant by joke wasnt it? Because this IS an actual forum where when its slow news wise we can discuss non actual trades. Or jokes funny guy!

I don't even know where to begin on you. We are one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league. And by one of the worst I mean the worst. We have two star players that live in the paint. Hmm wonder what kinda player could #1 help with 3pt shooting and clear floor space and #2 play PF???

Well funny joke guy.. the answer isnt JT. So thats why this thread isnt so funny. Cause JT isnt the long term solution at PF.

So now lets move past ur joke of a post and discuss. Which is what we do on an actual thread on an actual forum.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Friends don't let friends trade for Channing Frye.

JUST SAY NO!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Apropos of nothing, holy disproportionate response, Batman!*

randymoss1881's reply was totally appropriate for this thread, so I don't know where you're headed with your "I'm not the actual GM" straw man. If I throw in an extra noun, and say 'This trade proposal is a joke', will that put your mind at ease? Now, you don't have to operate under the false impression that you think that I think that you're the 'actual' GM, or attack a position that I never took, and just deal with the fact that I think your idea is bad.






*Disclaimer: I don't actually think that you're Batman, either.

 

[randymoss1881]

Well captain obvious its not an actual trade. Because I'm not the actual GM. Thats what u meant by joke wasnt it? Because this IS an actual forum where when its slow news wise we can discuss non actual trades. Or jokes funny guy!

I don't even know where to begin on you. We are one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league. And by one of the worst I mean the worst. We have two star players that live in the paint. Hmm wonder what kinda player could #1 help with 3pt shooting and clear floor space and #2 play PF???

Well funny joke guy.. the answer isnt JT. So thats why this thread isnt so funny. Cause JT isnt the long term solution at PF.

So now lets move past ur joke of a post and discuss. Which is what we do on an actual thread on an actual forum.

I don't get why you're getting so mad

 

[randymoss1881]

And ya 3pt shooting is a weakness but I'd rather have that as a weakness than having defense as a weakness which is what happens with that trade.

 

[SwishKing]

Besides the fact that this trade is a joke how is JT under performing?

Maybe because he's posting career low numbers across the board in more or less the same minutes he's been getting the last few years, including a 37 fg% (mostly from right under the basket) and 50 FT%. Sure, he's playing decent defense (and even then, he's looked pretty shaky since Cousins has been out), but he's still not a lock-down guy or a great shot blocker.

Honestly, I don't watch much NBA outside of the kings, so I don't have much of an opinion on Frye, but I don't see how a potential JT/Frye trade is a joke. It's not like JT is some kind of untouchable that you would never trade away. He's working well with the team right now mostly because he stays out of the way on offense, and does his job on defense. I really feel like JT is starting to get overrated around here (which is not something I'd ever thought I'd say). The guy is the definition of mediocre.

 

[Gilles]

Maybe because he's posting career low numbers across the board in more or less the same minutes he's been getting the last few years, including a 37 fg% (mostly from right under the basket) and 50 FT%. Sure, he's playing decent defense (and even then, he's looked pretty shaky since Cousins has been out), but he's still not a lock-down guy or a great shot blocker.

Honestly, I don't watch much NBA outside of the kings, so I don't have much of an opinion on Frye, but I don't see how a potential JT/Frye trade is a joke. It's not like JT is some kind of untouchable that you would never trade away. He's working well with the team right now mostly because he stays out of the way on offense, and does his job on defense. I really feel like JT is starting to get overrated around here (which is not something I'd ever thought I'd say). The guy is the definition of mediocre.

If it's skill vs skill as in defense vs 3pt shooting, defense wins every time. It's an age of "what have you done for me lately", but you can't pretend, you forgot, that JT was an OK shooter before. But more than anything it's a matter of replacement value as in how much will it cost to get back what JT does vs what Frye does. Please name me good true big defenders, that are obtainable for expiring conract, other insignificant assets/FAs this summer at $6.5 million, because I can easily find shooting/not much else from PF spot for $8 million under the same conditions.

 

[ESP47]

No one thinks JT is amazing or anything but if we're going to make a trade it needs to be for a better player who is a better fit. Until we get that, why make the trade?

When we play defense, we win.

When we don't play defense, we lose.

JT is one of the few defenders on this team.

You don't trade him away for a guy who plays zero defense and just camps out on the 3 point line all game. Yeah Frye would be a nice welcome to our offense but a massive drain on our defense. If you've been watching this year, we aren't losing because of our offense. We lose when we can't stop the other team. We're actually a pretty solid offense team right now. If anything, we need more defenders. Not more soft PF's.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Honestly, I don't watch much NBA outside of the kings, so I don't have much of an opinion on Frye, but I don't see how a potential JT/Frye trade is a joke.

You kind of answered your own question. As I mentioned in the 'phone call' thread, the trouble with trading for a guy like Frye is that his weaknesses hurt us more than his strengths help us. You don't make yourself worse in a critical area of the game in order to make yourself stronger in an arguably less important area of the game.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

No one thinks JT is amazing or anything but if we're going to make a trade it needs to be for a better player who is a better fit. Until we get that, why make the trade?

At the very least, it needs to be a lateral move. If we trade our best man-on-man post defender, then we need to get back a guy who can also do that. We should not be trading a defensive player for a non-defensive player, unless that player is significantly better than the likes of Channing Frye.

 

[Entity]

I agree if you are trading JT you need to be getting upgrading. If you do the lateral move in talent as slim suggested. You are still hurting the team because of the chemistry. So either Upgrade or no trade. trading just to be trading is pointless.

 

[sactownfan]

I agree if you are trading JT you need to be getting upgrading. If you do the lateral move in talent as slim suggested. You are still hurting the team because of the chemistry. So either Upgrade or no trade. trading just to be trading is pointless.

Ok just to elaborate on why I Considered this a potential fit...

It actually starts by talking about players fitting into systems, with coaches, you name it. It wasn't that long ago that we traded for a player that was also posting career lows across the board...that player was Rudy gay. I think that trade worked out pretty well for us. Rudy trash in TOR...star in SAC.... Hmm did Rudy just become a better player? Or.... Was Sacramento just a better fit?

Channing Frye has shown that he can be a very serviceable player if in the right system. In Orlando he doesn't have nearly the same amount of talent around him as he did in Phoenix. Different system , different coach ,less experienced players ,less talented players.

Look at our starting five.
* Cousins no three-point shooting.
* Rudy Gay semi shaky three-point shooting.
* Ben Mclemore our best and only real three-point shooting threat.
* Darren Collison extremely shaky 3pt shooter.
And JT .... Basically zero offensive contribution. And ABSOLUTELY can't space the floor for cousins or help with the 3pt problems...

Enter Channing Frye. Very similar build as JT. Absolutely proven 3pt threat. He will demand respect on the 3pt line!!! Honestly I don't know how he compares to Jason Thompson as a defender. Let's keep in mind Jason Thompson wasn't known as a good defender until just this year. So maybe like Jason Thompson Channing Frye could be a pretty serviceable defender if in the right system say with Mike Malone.

The sessions part of this deal is obvious. But taking on Channing Frye's contract seemingly fits what PDA said about looking for overpriced players.

 

[SwishKing]

You kind of answered your own question. As I mentioned in the 'phone call' thread, the trouble with trading for a guy like Frye is that his weaknesses hurt us more than his strengths help us. You don't make yourself worse in a critical area of the game in order to make yourself stronger in an arguably less important area of the game.

I realize JT is fitting in well with the team and our starting 5 is playing phenomenally together. I just don't think it's as ridiculous a trade proposal as you and randy do. It's not like JT is a significantly better basketball player than Frye. They are two very mediocre players. It's not like he was saying we should try and trade JT for KD or LJ. That would be a joke.

 

[Prince_XY]

Enter Channing Frye.

Come on now.

Just admit it.

You've been missing your favorite player Hawes so much that you want us to get another "soggy waffles".

 

[sactownfan]

Come on now.

Just admit it.

You've been missing your favorite player Hawes so much that you want us to get another "soggy waffles".

LOL! there will never be another "soggy waffles" LOL! great pull from the past! not to get totally off topic but the Clippers not getting Collision and instead going for Spencer Hawes??? wow that had a pretty big impact .... in a "shockingly" negative way. LOL! surprise surprise

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I realize JT is fitting in well with the team and our starting 5 is playing phenomenally together. I just don't think it's as ridiculous a trade proposal as you and randy do. It's not like JT is a significantly better basketball player than Frye. They are two very mediocre players.

You're missing the point.

All money ain't good money; you don't say no to a Thompson for Frye trade because Thompson is 'significantly better' than Frye. You say no to a Thompson for Frye trade because Frye makes this team weaker. There may be teams which play a style such that Frye would be an upgrade over Thompson, but the 2014-15 Sacramento Kings is not one of those teams. Frye's shooting isn't nearly good enough to offset what he gives up defensively. You're basically suggesting taking a guy who is a 3 offensively and a 7 defensively, and trading him for a guy who is a 6 offensively and a 2 defensively. That's a bad trade.

 

[SwishKing]

You're missing the point.

All money ain't good money; you don't say no to a Thompson for Frye trade because Thompson is 'significantly better' than Frye. You say no to a Thompson for Frye trade because Frye makes this team weaker. There may be teams which play a style such that Frye would be an upgrade over Thompson, but the 2014-15 Sacramento Kings is not one of those teams. Frye's shooting isn't nearly good enough to offset what he gives up defensively. You're basically suggesting taking a guy who is a 3 offensively and a 7 defensively, and trading him for a guy who is a 6 offensively and a 2 defensively. That's a bad trade.

No, man. You're missing MY point. I never agreed we should trade JT for Frye. I'm disagreeing with yours and randy's opinion that the trade proposal is a joke and thus shouldn't be discussed. JT is fitting in well with the team, but I don't think that makes him untouchable in trade talks. I AGREE that Thompson is a better fit for this team right now. I like the way our starting 5 is playing right now, and I'd work to keep them together. The bench on the other hand needs to be upgraded in a big way.

And come on, those numbers are totally arbitrary.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's a joke because Frye doesn't fit, is the point. Any trade proposal which amounts to change for changes' sake is a joke proposal. I don't have a problem with trade proposals in the abstract, but I do have a big problem with 'because, trade' proposals, which is what this is.

And of course the numbers are arbitrary, where the hell would you get numbers from to grade a player on a scale of 1-10 that are not arbitrary?

 

[sactownfan]

You're missing the point.

All money ain't good money; you don't say no to a Thompson for Frye trade because Thompson is 'significantly better' than Frye. You say no to a Thompson for Frye trade because Frye makes this team weaker. There may be teams which play a style such that Frye would be an upgrade over Thompson, but the 2014-15 Sacramento Kings is not one of those teams. Frye's shooting isn't nearly good enough to offset what he gives up defensively. You're basically suggesting taking a guy who is a 3 offensively and a 7 defensively, and trading him for a guy who is a 6 offensively and a 2 defensively. That's a bad trade.

TO ALL THE HATERS HERE... lol! Frye has out performed JT in about every which way over the last few years including BLOCKED SHOTS!!!!

The truth is this team doesn't need another guy living in the paint. We have a specific need for a big body that will give us effort and be serviceable on the defensive end but spread the floor on offense and punish teams when they double Gay and Cousins! Frye is shooting 41% from 3pt land....

Imagine.... frye is on the 3pt line... that means his defender (PROBABLY) the PF on the other team is having to LEAVE THE PAINT in order to guard him.... that means that now you have to try to double cousins with one less big.... how does this not seem like a good fit.

Frye btw was just one of these kinda players i think the Kings should be targeting. But honestly he might be the most comparable to JT as far as defense.... (which once again is a new thing for JT not something he's proven over time)

 

[randymoss1881]

No, man. You're missing MY point. I never agreed we should trade JT for Frye. I'm disagreeing with yours and randy's opinion that the trade proposal is a joke and thus shouldn't be discussed. JT is fitting in well with the team, but I don't think that makes him untouchable in trade talks. I AGREE that Thompson is a better fit for this team right now. I like the way our starting 5 is playing right now, and I'd work to keep them together. The bench on the other hand needs to be upgraded in a big way.

And come on, those numbers are totally arbitrary.

Nobody saying JT is untouchable but you don't trade him unless the guy you are getting back can play defense. Even if it's josh smith at least he can play defense and he can be a playmaker. Fry would just shoot 3s but the defense slip would be huge. We would stand 0 chance in the west when you play teams with PFs like griffin, Dirk, Aldridge, Lee, serge, Duncan, annd ZBo. Defense wins championships and trading our best low post defender for a 3pt specialist is going in the opposite direction.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Oh noes, he has more blocked shots! It's nice to know that, based on blocks, Brook Lopez is a better defender than Marc Gasol. Except, oh, wait a minute, no he isn't.

You can chalk up an argument about whether Frye's offense would be a bigger asset than Thompson's defense as a matter of taste. I would say, rather emphatically, that it is not. But saying that Frye is a better defender than Thompson is straight arguing in bad faith.

 

[sactownfan]

Oh noes, he has more blocked shots! It's nice to know that, based on blocks, Brook Lopez is a better defender than Marc Gasol. Except, oh, wait a minute, no he isn't.

You can chalk up an argument about whether Frye's offense would be a bigger asset than Thompson's defense as a matter of taste. I would say, rather emphatically, that it is not. But saying that Frye is a better defender than Thompson is straight arguing in bad faith.

Dude lets get real here.... PEOPLE HERE ARE WAAAAAY OVERRATING JT'S DEFENSE..... is it a coincidence that all of a sudden year 2 of a PROVEN DEFENSIVE MINDED COACH that our team's defense is improving????? Malone had a huge impact on the Warriors Defense and has had an impact with ever team he's been apart of .... THATS WHY WE HIRED HIM! ....

JT was a wreck until this year. ON then OFF then ON then OFF... then OFF more OFF and More OFF and more OFF... He's shown nothing more than he's best fit to be a pretty solid bench player in this league thats it... He's defense was horrid until this year. ANYONE WANNA JUST GIVE MALONE SOME CREDIT HERE?

Frye hasn't played for a Guy like malone or on a team like this. To call him out as NOW BEING A HORRIBLE DEFENDER FOR LIFE is silly.

 

[Chupacabra]

Dude lets get real here.... PEOPLE HERE ARE WAAAAAY OVERRATING JT'S DEFENSE..... is it a coincidence that all of a sudden year 2 of a PROVEN DEFENSIVE MINDED COACH that our team's defense is improving????? Malone had a huge impact on the Warriors Defense and has had an impact with ever team he's been apart of .... THATS WHY WE HIRED HIM! ....

JT was a wreck until this year. ON then OFF then ON then OFF... then OFF more OFF and More OFF and more OFF... He's shown nothing more than he's best fit to be a pretty solid bench player in this league thats it... He's defense was horrid until this year. ANYONE WANNA JUST GIVE MALONE SOME CREDIT HERE?

Frye hasn't played for a Guy like malone or on a team like this. To call him out as NOW BEING A HORRIBLE DEFENDER FOR LIFE is silly.

JT is playing really good man defense. I can tell because I've been looking right at him when he guards the likes of Aldridge and Griffin etc... JT has always had the correct approach defensively but until this this year and I think it was last year he always had the propensity to commit silly fouls.

 

[kingsboi]

We switch defense for more offense in Frye...I'd pass on this. Also...Frye just signed a four year deal, we don't have any need for that right now, money should be better spent. Ridnour is filler...is he really any better than Sessions...maybe in regards to not turning the ball over?

 

[sactownfan]

Ridnour is filler...is he really any better than Sessions...

THIS LINE WINS.... my parents dog is better than sessions. A dead body > Sessions. a washing machine > sessions

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Dude lets get real here.... PEOPLE HERE ARE WAAAAAY OVERRATING JT'S DEFENSE..... is it a coincidence that all of a sudden year 2 of a PROVEN DEFENSIVE MINDED COACH that our team's defense is improving????? Malone had a huge impact on the Warriors Defense and has had an impact with ever team he's been apart of .... THATS WHY WE HIRED HIM! ....

Your assessment of Thompson's defense is not entirely accurate. Thompson has always played solid man defense; that is not a recent development. Where you can see visible improvement (barring the last play of the Memphis game) is his help defense. That has become significantly better under Malone. But he's always been a good man defender. And, blocks aside, he has always been better than Frye. And, if you want to be completely pedantic about it, Thompson is a better shot blocker, too: Frye only has 79 more career blocks, despite having played 124 more games, which actually works out to a better blocks-per-game average for Thompson (.732 versus .713) and, looking at this year in isolation, the numbers favor Thompson even more.

Frye hasn't played for a Guy like malone or on a team like this. To call him out as NOW BEING A HORRIBLE DEFENDER FOR LIFE is silly.

Since when are Larry Brown and Nate McMillan bad defensive coaches? You kind of make it sound like, because he spent so much time in Phoenix, that you think he played his whole career for Mike D'Antoni; when, in reality, Frye hasn't played any part of his career for D'Antoni. For that matter, Alvin Gentry had had a reputation for being a good defensive coach, until his reputation was destroyed in Phoenix, ironically by the likes of Channing Frye and Steve Nash.

Frye is better offensively. Thompson is better defensively. I don't think that either is particularly close, and I would not trade defense for offense. Now, if you wanted to trade Landry for Frye... sure, I can get with that. Offense for offense? Why not.

 

[sactownfan]

Since when are Larry Brown and Nate McMillan bad defensive coaches?

well all the coaches you just named were fired or straight let go never to coach again.... so far that is... lol! not screaming anything encouraging to your point tho.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Coaches are hired to get fired, so that's not a compelling argument. There's been, maybe, six coaches in the NBA in the last forty years who never get fired. Every coach in the NBA who's not on his first head coaching job has been fired at least once. Rick Carlisle is considered to be one of the finest defensive coaches in the league, and he's been fired twice.

Nate McMillan is a proven defensive coach. Larry Brown is a proven defensive coach, who's won a championship. I sincerely hope that you can muster a more substantive rebuttal than that.