Draft position thread
- Thread starter Big Cuz 15
- Start date
If the Kings FO wants IT back I'd think the smart thing for them to do is offer him a deal starting just barely above the MLE. That eliminates interest from all teams that don't have capspace. Then just wait to see if some team that does have cap room is willing to sign Thomas for more and then decide whether or not to match. Pretty simple.
I dunno. There is a chance that the market sees his value significantly lower than the Kings do, in which case, it would be better to match a low bid than to start the bidding quite high.
In any case, losing IT to free agency would be a blow, but not a death knell for the team. I think there are 5 or 6 attainable free agents out there who would provide better two-way balance with a scoring tandem of Cousins and Gay.
In any case, losing IT to free agency would be a blow, but not a death knell for the team. I think there are 5 or 6 attainable free agents out there who would provide better two-way balance with a scoring tandem of Cousins and Gay.
Sure, but that's why I began my post with "If the FO wants IT back" which I think we all agree is different than "if they wouldn't mind having him back for the right price". My hope has always been that a playmaking/defending PG could be obtained and push IT to a bench role with a reasonable (let's say 4 year/$21 million) deal for that role. Now I'm really curious to see what the team does with Thomas in the offseason.
I can't imagine IT will get "offers in the $8-9 million per year range" as suggested above but if somehow it happens I'd be pretty upset if the Kings matched. Cousins making ~$14 million next season is fine. Gay making $19 million is tolerable only because it's only for next year but the idea of overpaying IT to the tune of $8 million or so would mean that the Kings would have $41 million tied up in a core that needed this last 2 game win streak just to not be the worst team (by record) in the Western Conference. Ouch.
I can't imagine IT will get "offers in the $8-9 million per year range" as suggested above but if somehow it happens I'd be pretty upset if the Kings matched. Cousins making ~$14 million next season is fine. Gay making $19 million is tolerable only because it's only for next year but the idea of overpaying IT to the tune of $8 million or so would mean that the Kings would have $41 million tied up in a core that needed this last 2 game win streak just to not be the worst team (by record) in the Western Conference. Ouch.
They are still most efficient guys along with Boogie. Landry is still shaking off rust, Derrick, Ben and Ray are simply not ready, others just doesn't need more shots. Still part of it is on Malone. He is trying to win as many games as he can, and that's the way to produce best offense in his mind. When Derrick, Ben and Ray start shooting better, you could argue, that they deserve more shots.
I almost think this thread (link) should be stickied 
Malone has a multi-year deal and the trust of the majority owner. I think he'll be fine. What I'm unhappy about is that it seems to me both Rudy Gay and Isaiah Thomas are playing for their own interests right now. Which is perfectly fine, that's their right. But those interests might not align with the future of this team. They're looking after their interest, as a team we should be doing the same. And that probably means finding more opportunities for our young players under contract to try and show some progress. I just don't see how anyone can show much offensively with 3 or 4 shots a game.
I believe, IT mentioned, that coach encouraged him to be aggressive. That coach wasn't Smart, and though they might have the different definitions of "being aggressive", IT is still getting his 36-38 minutes per game.
As for only 3 or 4 shots a game, trio of young guys still can't shoot consistently, and only Williams can really create shots for themselves. I would really like to give him the ball in better positions (inside or on the move closer to the basket), but that's the only thing I would tinker with for now. Again I think you underestimate desire of Malone to get wins vs willingness to give freedom to young guys.
As for only 3 or 4 shots a game, trio of young guys still can't shoot consistently, and only Williams can really create shots for themselves. I would really like to give him the ball in better positions (inside or on the move closer to the basket), but that's the only thing I would tinker with for now. Again I think you underestimate desire of Malone to get wins vs willingness to give freedom to young guys.
You might be surprised.
Many people thought that Tyreke would not be getting more than $7-8 million and he walked away with a 4 year $48 million dollar deal (includes $4 million bonus for signing).
Make no mistake there WILL be a team that does something stupid like this. There is always a couple.
While I think we will keep both IT and Gay, I would not be surprised in the slightest and both get ridiculous offers that we are not willing to match.
Many people thought that Tyreke would not be getting more than $7-8 million and he walked away with a 4 year $48 million dollar deal (includes $4 million bonus for signing).
Make no mistake there WILL be a team that does something stupid like this. There is always a couple.
While I think we will keep both IT and Gay, I would not be surprised in the slightest and both get ridiculous offers that we are not willing to match.
Boy, do I agree. There is always a team to do the unexpected in signing free agents and the same goes for the draft. What we need to hope is that we are not the stupid team doing the stupid thing.
I have good feelings about Gay, though. The name "Gay" was a punchline to a joke about salaries and he can change that. He is already a different Rudy as to production. He has found a buddy in Cuz and the two of them can be something special. I don't think that has whooshed over his head. Sacramento may make a respected player out of Gay as it did Webber.
I left IT out of that as I am not sure what he wants or expects. My anger at him is subsiding but I think at this point it requires a healthy Rudy and Cuz to reign him in. I don't mean that they are physically threatening him but just that IT recognizes his role better when both are healthy. Some day it may become more natural. IT may be Boogie's buddy (I'm not so sure) but his relationship with Boogie is not the same as Rudy's relationship with Cousins. Rudy's career depends a great deal on Cousins but I don't think Rudy gets much of anything from IT. Just a thought that can't be proven.
I have good feelings about Gay, though. The name "Gay" was a punchline to a joke about salaries and he can change that. He is already a different Rudy as to production. He has found a buddy in Cuz and the two of them can be something special. I don't think that has whooshed over his head. Sacramento may make a respected player out of Gay as it did Webber.
I left IT out of that as I am not sure what he wants or expects. My anger at him is subsiding but I think at this point it requires a healthy Rudy and Cuz to reign him in. I don't mean that they are physically threatening him but just that IT recognizes his role better when both are healthy. Some day it may become more natural. IT may be Boogie's buddy (I'm not so sure) but his relationship with Boogie is not the same as Rudy's relationship with Cousins. Rudy's career depends a great deal on Cousins but I don't think Rudy gets much of anything from IT. Just a thought that can't be proven.
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There is a shortage of quality SG, Tyreke is a SG, it's supply and demand. I don't think most fans were surprised with Tyreke's contract.
There is a no shortage of quality PGs. In fact, I have never seen such an influx of PGs in the NBA right now. There is little to no demand for IT. There are always dumb teams but there is almost never a dumb team who overpays for something they don't need. When dump contracts are handed out, it's usually for a commodity that is in short supply. That doesn't apply to IT.
It will take an extraordinary unforseen circumstance for IT to get $8/$9 millions. All the stars would have to be aligned just right for that to happen. It's not gonna happen barring some some Linsanity-type performance out of IT.
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None of the scenario you proposed has any chance of happening. Let's get one thing clear: any team who gives IT $8/$9 millions is trying to make the playoffs, that should be obvious. That would rule out the Bucks, who are in disarray and in rebuilding mode. Plus, they don't even need a starting PG - Knight has been their best player and he's cheap; why'd the Buck discard him? They are not paying $8/$9 millions for someone to backup Knight or to take his job away.
The Raptors is run by one of the best GMs in the league, there is no way they'll throw dumb money at IT. And especially not when they are only heading into Year 2 of a rebuild.
The Rockets wants a.... 3&D PG. IT is about the last PG they'd want on the team, and just as terribly a fit as Lin is next to Harden.
Likewise, the Magic and the Lakers are not going after IT. The only team I can think of that can use IT is NYC, and they're the last team who can afford to sign him.
If there is a dark horse, it's Dallas; but Mark Cuban, despite his reputation, is actually quite shrewd about handing out contracts. So we'll see.
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Define knowledgable fans.
Let's be clear, Tyreke has a front loaded contract that pays him $11+M this season but reduces to $10M in his last season. Taking that in consideration, when even Jeff Teague got $8 millions a season, a knowledgable fan should have figured that $10-$11M for Tyreke is not out of the question.
The Tyreke argument completely ignores that fact that Reke and IT plays different position, are very different players, and are in different markets. For every Tyreke, there are three players who hit FA and found that they're in less demand than anticipated. People don't like to mention those players, it's always the extraordinary worst case scenario that's presented.
Let's be clear, Tyreke has a front loaded contract that pays him $11+M this season but reduces to $10M in his last season. Taking that in consideration, when even Jeff Teague got $8 millions a season, a knowledgable fan should have figured that $10-$11M for Tyreke is not out of the question.
The Tyreke argument completely ignores that fact that Reke and IT plays different position, are very different players, and are in different markets. For every Tyreke, there are three players who hit FA and found that they're in less demand than anticipated. People don't like to mention those players, it's always the extraordinary worst case scenario that's presented.
Again, I simply question whether NBA GMs collectively will act in a manner which accords to a rational outsider's perspective of their situation. I wouldn't rule out 1 GM in 30 looking at IT's numbers this year and thinking they can scoop up an All Star PG at a bit of a "bargain". I have no way of knowing this of course so it's pointless to debate at this point. So I guess we'll see.
But regardless of whether IT signs somewhere else or re-signs here, having him throw up 30 point games while everyone else stands around and watches only serves to drive up his asking price while ensuring that the rest of those players aren't getting the same opportunity to develop their skillsets in game situations.
But regardless of whether IT signs somewhere else or re-signs here, having him throw up 30 point games while everyone else stands around and watches only serves to drive up his asking price while ensuring that the rest of those players aren't getting the same opportunity to develop their skillsets in game situations.
Different position really do not matter. Its how the team willing to pay for the player views then on their team. The last thing NOLA needed was to invest another $48 million into a SG position when they had a Maxed out Eric Gordon who is producing roughly the same as Tyreke and at his contract is simply not movable. Did they have a need to slash close to $50 million on Tyreke when they also just happened to trade for Jrue Holiday on draft night? So a Holiday-Gordon-Evans backcourt taking up over a half of the salary cap?
Did Detroit need Josh Smith when they already has Monroe and Drummond? Don't star the SF argument with me on Smith as he has played one single season at SF prior to signing with Detroit and it was his worst season as an established player.
Lets not even pretend to guess what the Bucks will be up to. For all we know they might actually see IT as the guy for them. A scorer from the perimeter to go with their offensively challenged Sander/Henson front court? I am not saying that they want that but I am certainly not discounting it either.
I am on the record as saying that I don't see IT as a starting PG on a very good team. He can start for a lottery team but for a very good team he is a dynamic 6th man off the bench who can spot start if needed but whose primary role is to provide scoring punch and change of pace off the bench for about 25mpg.
Others might see it differently and I certainly would NOT be surprised of IT gets more than $8-9 million per season deal. They is a front office out there somewhere that likes him and would love to have him on their team and see him as their starter or their star player. I think that IT will get offers ranging from anywhere from $7-10 million per season. I would probably be OK offering up to $8 million because I think at that deal he is still tradeable. I would prefer to sign him for the MLE type money but I am well aware its going to take more than that.
The only reason why teams were not prepared to trade for him is because of the pending free agency. He is a risk for them as he could walk in the off-season if he gets an offer they are unable to match. I suspect IT will get a fair bit of interest in the off-season, I just hope that he is re-signed at a reasonable salary but something tells me there will be a stupid GM out there that will offer him a deal that he will simply not turn down. Just like NOLA gave Tyreke a big contract and Detroit blew their cap on Josh Smith.
Even the perennial mid 30% shooter in Jennings got himself $8 million per season. Again Dumars being stupid but there are plenty of Dumars like GMs out there. If Kahn was still around IT would get the max from him. Interesting that he is part of the ownership group looking to get in on the Bucks ownership stakes. Hmmmmm!
Did Detroit need Josh Smith when they already has Monroe and Drummond? Don't star the SF argument with me on Smith as he has played one single season at SF prior to signing with Detroit and it was his worst season as an established player.
Lets not even pretend to guess what the Bucks will be up to. For all we know they might actually see IT as the guy for them. A scorer from the perimeter to go with their offensively challenged Sander/Henson front court? I am not saying that they want that but I am certainly not discounting it either.
I am on the record as saying that I don't see IT as a starting PG on a very good team. He can start for a lottery team but for a very good team he is a dynamic 6th man off the bench who can spot start if needed but whose primary role is to provide scoring punch and change of pace off the bench for about 25mpg.
Others might see it differently and I certainly would NOT be surprised of IT gets more than $8-9 million per season deal. They is a front office out there somewhere that likes him and would love to have him on their team and see him as their starter or their star player. I think that IT will get offers ranging from anywhere from $7-10 million per season. I would probably be OK offering up to $8 million because I think at that deal he is still tradeable. I would prefer to sign him for the MLE type money but I am well aware its going to take more than that.
The only reason why teams were not prepared to trade for him is because of the pending free agency. He is a risk for them as he could walk in the off-season if he gets an offer they are unable to match. I suspect IT will get a fair bit of interest in the off-season, I just hope that he is re-signed at a reasonable salary but something tells me there will be a stupid GM out there that will offer him a deal that he will simply not turn down. Just like NOLA gave Tyreke a big contract and Detroit blew their cap on Josh Smith.
Even the perennial mid 30% shooter in Jennings got himself $8 million per season. Again Dumars being stupid but there are plenty of Dumars like GMs out there. If Kahn was still around IT would get the max from him. Interesting that he is part of the ownership group looking to get in on the Bucks ownership stakes. Hmmmmm!
Well, Pelicans did think, it would be easy to move Gordon, once he's healthy.
And Dumars brought Smith in as a SF.
All the broadcast crews mention Nate Robinson at least once, when their teams play Kings. They follow that with admission, that IT looks to be better and without baggage, but I don't remember anyone outside of our imaginative pair to suggest IT as a starter.
Underrated factor is how miniscule IT's qualifying offer is. I don't see any way, that he takes it for a year to wait till 2015 to find himself a deal over MLE, if no one with cap space is interested this year.
And Dumars brought Smith in as a SF.
All the broadcast crews mention Nate Robinson at least once, when their teams play Kings. They follow that with admission, that IT looks to be better and without baggage, but I don't remember anyone outside of our imaginative pair to suggest IT as a starter.
Underrated factor is how miniscule IT's qualifying offer is. I don't see any way, that he takes it for a year to wait till 2015 to find himself a deal over MLE, if no one with cap space is interested this year.
Doesn't really matter. We could slide to 10th and then "win" the lottery with a top-3 pick. Or lose a couple extra games and come in 9th and slide to 11th. The lottery will take care of itself.
What good would it do us to keep losing and get a high lottery pick if it costs us DMC with his frustration with not winning? Is that worth moving up a few spots in a theoretical pick location?
What good would it do us to keep losing and get a high lottery pick if it costs us DMC with his frustration with not winning? Is that worth moving up a few spots in a theoretical pick location?
Per Scott Howard Cooper in 1140 radio interview with Grant Napier last week:
1) IT will get "good" interest from teams in his restricted free agency.
2) If he weren't restricted, he'd get " a lot" of interest.
3) He ranked him in the middle of the pack for starting point guards in the NBA.
All of which I agree with.
1) IT will get "good" interest from teams in his restricted free agency.
2) If he weren't restricted, he'd get " a lot" of interest.
3) He ranked him in the middle of the pack for starting point guards in the NBA.
All of which I agree with.
Single games are still not important at this point as there's a lot of them to play, but race to the bottom is picking up steam:
Name-Games won-Games difference----H/A games left-Over last 10 games
Bucks----12-----------------------------------------11/14------------(3/7)
Sixers----15--------------------2-------------------11/12------------(0-10)
Magic----19------------------5 1/2-----------------12/10------------(4-6)
Celtics---20------------------7 1/2-----------------12/12------------(3-7)
Lakers---21--------------------8-------------------13/10-------------(3-7)
Knicks---21--------------------8-------------------10/13-------------(1-9)
Kings----21------------------81/2-----------------10/14-------------(4-6)
Jazz------21------------------81/2-----------------12/12-------------(4-6)
Cavs------24----------------10 1/2-----------------11/11-------------(5-5)
Pelicans--24------------------11--------------------15/8--------------(2-8)
Pistons---24----------------11 1/2------------------9/15-------------(3-7)
Nuggets--25------------------13--------------------12/13------------(1-9)
Hawks----26----------------14 1/2-----------------14/12------------(1-9)
Shrewd observer would notice, that I have 7 eastern teams, one of which will have to make PO: Hawks still in front, but looking at the latest Hawks streak and amount of away games for Pistons Cavs have to be the favourites. Sixers are sneaking on Bucks, and I saw interview with their coach, who believes they are not going to win any games this season (bright future?!), so Bucks must be careful, and today's game looks like almost automatic loss for them.
Name-Games won-Games difference----H/A games left-Over last 10 games
Bucks----12-----------------------------------------11/14------------(3/7)
Sixers----15--------------------2-------------------11/12------------(0-10)
Magic----19------------------5 1/2-----------------12/10------------(4-6)
Celtics---20------------------7 1/2-----------------12/12------------(3-7)
Lakers---21--------------------8-------------------13/10-------------(3-7)
Knicks---21--------------------8-------------------10/13-------------(1-9)
Kings----21------------------81/2-----------------10/14-------------(4-6)
Jazz------21------------------81/2-----------------12/12-------------(4-6)
Cavs------24----------------10 1/2-----------------11/11-------------(5-5)
Pelicans--24------------------11--------------------15/8--------------(2-8)
Pistons---24----------------11 1/2------------------9/15-------------(3-7)
Nuggets--25------------------13--------------------12/13------------(1-9)
Hawks----26----------------14 1/2-----------------14/12------------(1-9)
Shrewd observer would notice, that I have 7 eastern teams, one of which will have to make PO: Hawks still in front, but looking at the latest Hawks streak and amount of away games for Pistons Cavs have to be the favourites. Sixers are sneaking on Bucks, and I saw interview with their coach, who believes they are not going to win any games this season (bright future?!), so Bucks must be careful
, and today's game looks like almost automatic loss for them.