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MT will start and MT will do well in Malones system. MT can flat out score and M16 will back him up purely because the future is brighter for m16 then jimmer.
he may earn limited mins or he may not. If MT doesn't own that starting spot and is shipped out it will only be because m16 has developed at a greater rate then expected not because the brass feel we need to give more mins to jimmer.
he may earn limited mins or he may not. If MT doesn't own that starting spot and is shipped out it will only be because m16 has developed at a greater rate then expected not because the brass feel we need to give more mins to jimmer.
it may or may not be the "same old story for jimmer" this season (for the record, jimmer has had scattered "break out" games in each of his preseasons, while leaving much to be desired in the regular season), but it is definitely the same old story for kf.com: much ado about nothing, in my opinion. sure, fredette had an excellent run in college, just like a great many collegiate talents who scrub out of the nba due to inflated expectations, or remain undrafted altogether. so why all the fuss about an unathletic, non-defensive tweener guard with a weak handle, who will likely top out as a journeyman spot-up shooter in this league? has there ever been a professional athlete whose hype outweighs his ceiling quite this much?
of course, tim tebow comes to mind, and there's an obvious correlation there. however, given the rules of this particular message board, we can't exactly dive into the racial and religious identity politics at play, and while "jimmermania" has generally tailed off since his rookie season, it's still mind-boggling to me that his most ardent supporters come out of the woodwork with these lofty claims of jimmer's fated success. can he log meaningful, productive regular season minutes this year? sure, why not? but here is the more relevant question: does it matter? jimmer is hardly the answer to any of the kings' problems, and waiting for him to blossom into an unlikely cog of a team someday bound for the playoffs is, quite honestly, a game of futility...
in college, jimmer was at the center of a system designed specifically for him; he was the star that byu's entire program gravitated around. what owner, what gm, what coach, what team in the nba is going to grant jimmer with a similar opportunity? not one. there will always be more athletic, more skilled talents ahead of jimmer in the pecking order. always. to survive in this league, he will learn to adapt, and he will learn to accept a specialist's role. not to repeat myself, but he's an unathletic, non-defensive tweener guard with a weak handle who will likely top out as a journeyman spot-up shooter in the nba. any improvement beyond that is just gravy...
personally, as with last season, i'm mercifully hoping for a mid-season trade that sees jimmer packaged with greater assets to bring back talent at a position of need, if only to watch the mass exodus of jimmer fans fleeing kf.com to regale some other team's fansite with stories of jimmer's eventual greatness...
of course, tim tebow comes to mind, and there's an obvious correlation there. however, given the rules of this particular message board, we can't exactly dive into the racial and religious identity politics at play, and while "jimmermania" has generally tailed off since his rookie season, it's still mind-boggling to me that his most ardent supporters come out of the woodwork with these lofty claims of jimmer's fated success. can he log meaningful, productive regular season minutes this year? sure, why not? but here is the more relevant question: does it matter? jimmer is hardly the answer to any of the kings' problems, and waiting for him to blossom into an unlikely cog of a team someday bound for the playoffs is, quite honestly, a game of futility...
in college, jimmer was at the center of a system designed specifically for him; he was the star that byu's entire program gravitated around. what owner, what gm, what coach, what team in the nba is going to grant jimmer with a similar opportunity? not one. there will always be more athletic, more skilled talents ahead of jimmer in the pecking order. always. to survive in this league, he will learn to adapt, and he will learn to accept a specialist's role. not to repeat myself, but he's an unathletic, non-defensive tweener guard with a weak handle who will likely top out as a journeyman spot-up shooter in the nba. any improvement beyond that is just gravy...
personally, as with last season, i'm mercifully hoping for a mid-season trade that sees jimmer packaged with greater assets to bring back talent at a position of need, if only to watch the mass exodus of jimmer fans fleeing kf.com to regale some other team's fansite with stories of jimmer's eventual greatness...
G
I've been lurking around these forums since the day Jimmer was drafted and haven't made a peep, but I simply couldn't sit idly any longer after reading this.
What a load of Horse S***. IT has been given free reign to do exactly what you describe on the Kings offense. I watched nearly every game last season and couldn't believe how many games IT went 30+ minutes bricking shot after shot after shot with no substitutions, even late in the game when the Kings were down by double digits. Jimmer was 7th in the league and #1 among PG early last season in PER when Smart was actually giving him some decent minutes. Nobody can tell me that Jimmer has had a fair shake in this league when losers like Isaiah Thomas is given the green light game in and game out dribbling around in circles and throwing up circus shots at will.
It's quotes like these that reveal that IT is just as bad, if not a worse defender than Jimmer, yet why is it that time after time, IT is given a pass?
Why is it that Marcus Thornton is given a pass after playing absolutely TERRIBLE so far in this preseason? All we have to judge so far is these past few games and Jimmer has made MT look like a high school player, yet "MT will start and MT will do well in Malone's system". Right.
Like I've said, I've watched these boards for a very long time and I honestly don't get the cheap shots at Jimmer. I can only guess it has something to do with how Smart treated him last year. I seriously don't get it.
Again, Jimmer was one of the most productive scorers in the league early last year, before he got hit with consecutive DNPs. He was scoring just behind guys like Kobe, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and ahead of Deron Williams. I don't care what anyone tells me about his defense, if a guy is scoring as efficiently as guys like that, YOU DON'T BENCH HIM.
I'm really sick of the BS, I really am. All I'm asking is give Jimmer 1 friggin week of 30+ minutes, like IT got ALL season last year. If he doesn't pull in at least 20ppg, at least you can say he's had his chance and we can settle this crap. But I'm going to tell you that until he's given a FAIR shake in this league, these arguments will never end. All I'm saying is free Jimmer and prove us wrong.
What a load of Horse S***. IT has been given free reign to do exactly what you describe on the Kings offense. I watched nearly every game last season and couldn't believe how many games IT went 30+ minutes bricking shot after shot after shot with no substitutions, even late in the game when the Kings were down by double digits. Jimmer was 7th in the league and #1 among PG early last season in PER when Smart was actually giving him some decent minutes. Nobody can tell me that Jimmer has had a fair shake in this league when losers like Isaiah Thomas is given the green light game in and game out dribbling around in circles and throwing up circus shots at will.
It's quotes like these that reveal that IT is just as bad, if not a worse defender than Jimmer, yet why is it that time after time, IT is given a pass?
Why is it that Marcus Thornton is given a pass after playing absolutely TERRIBLE so far in this preseason? All we have to judge so far is these past few games and Jimmer has made MT look like a high school player, yet "MT will start and MT will do well in Malone's system". Right.
Like I've said, I've watched these boards for a very long time and I honestly don't get the cheap shots at Jimmer. I can only guess it has something to do with how Smart treated him last year. I seriously don't get it.
Again, Jimmer was one of the most productive scorers in the league early last year, before he got hit with consecutive DNPs. He was scoring just behind guys like Kobe, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and ahead of Deron Williams. I don't care what anyone tells me about his defense, if a guy is scoring as efficiently as guys like that, YOU DON'T BENCH HIM.
I'm really sick of the BS, I really am. All I'm asking is give Jimmer 1 friggin week of 30+ minutes, like IT got ALL season last year. If he doesn't pull in at least 20ppg, at least you can say he's had his chance and we can settle this crap. But I'm going to tell you that until he's given a FAIR shake in this league, these arguments will never end. All I'm saying is free Jimmer and prove us wrong.
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I've been lurking around these forums since the day Jimmer was drafted and haven't made a peep, but I simply couldn't sit idly any longer after reading this.
What a load of Horse S***. IT has been given free reign to do exactly what you describe on the Kings offense. I watched nearly every game last season and couldn't believe how many games IT went 30+ minutes bricking shot after shot after shot with no substitutions, even late in the game when the Kings were down by double digits. Jimmer was 7th in the league and #1 among PG early last season in PER when Smart was actually giving him some decent minutes. Nobody can tell me that Jimmer has had a fair shake in this league when losers like Isaiah Thomas is given the green light game in and game out dribbling around in circles and throwing up circus shots at will.
It's quotes like these that reveal that IT is just as bad, if not a worse defender than Jimmer, yet why is it that time after time, IT is given a pass?
Why is it that Marcus Thornton is given a pass after playing absolutely TERRIBLE so far in this preseason? All we have to judge so far is these past few games and Jimmer has made MT look like a high school player, yet "MT will start and MT will do well in Malone's system". Right.
Like I've said, I've watched these boards for a very long time and I honestly don't get the cheap shots at Jimmer. I can only guess it has something to do with how Smart treated him last year. Is it jealousy from the way he can get a crowd cheering for him? Is it because he's the white boy that just "shouldn't" be any good and so we have to make sure that happens? I seriously don't get it.
Again, Jimmer was one of the most productive scorers in the league early last year, before he got hit with consecutive DNPs. He was scoring just behind guys like Kobe, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and ahead of Deron Williams. I don't care what anyone tells me about his defense, if a guy is scoring as efficiently as guys like that, YOU DON'T BENCH HIM.
I'm really sick of the BS, I really am. All I'm asking is give Jimmer 1 friggin week of 30+ minutes, like IT got ALL season last year. If he doesn't pull in at least 20ppg, at least you can say he's had his chance and we can settle this crap. But I'm going to tell you that until he's given a FAIR shake in this league, these arguments will never end. All I'm saying is free Jimmer and prove us wrong.
What a load of Horse S***. IT has been given free reign to do exactly what you describe on the Kings offense. I watched nearly every game last season and couldn't believe how many games IT went 30+ minutes bricking shot after shot after shot with no substitutions, even late in the game when the Kings were down by double digits. Jimmer was 7th in the league and #1 among PG early last season in PER when Smart was actually giving him some decent minutes. Nobody can tell me that Jimmer has had a fair shake in this league when losers like Isaiah Thomas is given the green light game in and game out dribbling around in circles and throwing up circus shots at will.
It's quotes like these that reveal that IT is just as bad, if not a worse defender than Jimmer, yet why is it that time after time, IT is given a pass?
Why is it that Marcus Thornton is given a pass after playing absolutely TERRIBLE so far in this preseason? All we have to judge so far is these past few games and Jimmer has made MT look like a high school player, yet "MT will start and MT will do well in Malone's system". Right.
Like I've said, I've watched these boards for a very long time and I honestly don't get the cheap shots at Jimmer. I can only guess it has something to do with how Smart treated him last year. Is it jealousy from the way he can get a crowd cheering for him? Is it because he's the white boy that just "shouldn't" be any good and so we have to make sure that happens? I seriously don't get it.
Again, Jimmer was one of the most productive scorers in the league early last year, before he got hit with consecutive DNPs. He was scoring just behind guys like Kobe, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and ahead of Deron Williams. I don't care what anyone tells me about his defense, if a guy is scoring as efficiently as guys like that, YOU DON'T BENCH HIM.
I'm really sick of the BS, I really am. All I'm asking is give Jimmer 1 friggin week of 30+ minutes, like IT got ALL season last year. If he doesn't pull in at least 20ppg, at least you can say he's had his chance and we can settle this crap. But I'm going to tell you that until he's given a FAIR shake in this league, these arguments will never end. All I'm saying is free Jimmer and prove us wrong.
I've been lurking around these forums since the day Jimmer was drafted and haven't made a peep, but I simply couldn't sit idly any longer after reading this.
What a load of Horse S***. IT has been given free reign to do exactly what you describe on the Kings offense. I watched nearly every game last season and couldn't believe how many games IT went 30+ minutes bricking shot after shot after shot with no substitutions, even late in the game when the Kings were down by double digits. Jimmer was 7th in the league and #1 among PG early last season in PER when Smart was actually giving him some decent minutes. Nobody can tell me that Jimmer has had a fair shake in this league when losers like Isaiah Thomas is given the green light game in and game out dribbling around in circles and throwing up circus shots at will.
It's quotes like these that reveal that IT is just as bad, if not a worse defender than Jimmer, yet why is it that time after time, IT is given a pass?
Why is it that Marcus Thornton is given a pass after playing absolutely TERRIBLE so far in this preseason? All we have to judge so far is these past few games and Jimmer has made MT look like a high school player, yet "MT will start and MT will do well in Malone's system". Right.
Like I've said, I've watched these boards for a very long time and I honestly don't get the cheap shots at Jimmer. I can only guess it has something to do with how Smart treated him last year. Is it jealousy from the way he can get a crowd cheering for him? I seriously don't get it.
Again, Jimmer was one of the most productive scorers in the league early last year, before he got hit with consecutive DNPs. He was scoring just behind guys like Kobe, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and ahead of Deron Williams. I don't care what anyone tells me about his defense, if a guy is scoring as efficiently as guys like that, YOU DON'T BENCH HIM.
I'm really sick of the BS, I really am. All I'm asking is give Jimmer 1 friggin week of 30+ minutes, like IT got ALL season last year. If he doesn't pull in at least 20ppg, at least you can say he's had his chance and we can settle this crap. But I'm going to tell you that until he's given a FAIR shake in this league, these arguments will never end. All I'm saying is free Jimmer and prove us wrong.
What a load of Horse S***. IT has been given free reign to do exactly what you describe on the Kings offense. I watched nearly every game last season and couldn't believe how many games IT went 30+ minutes bricking shot after shot after shot with no substitutions, even late in the game when the Kings were down by double digits. Jimmer was 7th in the league and #1 among PG early last season in PER when Smart was actually giving him some decent minutes. Nobody can tell me that Jimmer has had a fair shake in this league when losers like Isaiah Thomas is given the green light game in and game out dribbling around in circles and throwing up circus shots at will.
It's quotes like these that reveal that IT is just as bad, if not a worse defender than Jimmer, yet why is it that time after time, IT is given a pass?
Why is it that Marcus Thornton is given a pass after playing absolutely TERRIBLE so far in this preseason? All we have to judge so far is these past few games and Jimmer has made MT look like a high school player, yet "MT will start and MT will do well in Malone's system". Right.
Like I've said, I've watched these boards for a very long time and I honestly don't get the cheap shots at Jimmer. I can only guess it has something to do with how Smart treated him last year. Is it jealousy from the way he can get a crowd cheering for him? I seriously don't get it.
Again, Jimmer was one of the most productive scorers in the league early last year, before he got hit with consecutive DNPs. He was scoring just behind guys like Kobe, Lebron, CP3 and Durant, and ahead of Deron Williams. I don't care what anyone tells me about his defense, if a guy is scoring as efficiently as guys like that, YOU DON'T BENCH HIM.
I'm really sick of the BS, I really am. All I'm asking is give Jimmer 1 friggin week of 30+ minutes, like IT got ALL season last year. If he doesn't pull in at least 20ppg, at least you can say he's had his chance and we can settle this crap. But I'm going to tell you that until he's given a FAIR shake in this league, these arguments will never end. All I'm saying is free Jimmer and prove us wrong.
Personally, from what I have seen in years past I don't think Jimmer is good enough to get solid time, and scoring isn't everything. I do think that he can be an energy guy off the bench, but I wouldn't want to pair him with IT. Maybe it's something we put in there with GV? Not sure man. We have so many different players that Jimmer might get lost in the mix.
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G
What have you seen? 5 min in garbage time every other game, DNP's once or twice a week. Don't give me, "from what I have seen" crap when he hasn't even been seen period. You can tell me all you want that he under performs in games when he's actually been given the consistent minutes to prove it, but I haven't seen any consistent time for him and I think you know it.
But here is what I DO know about the Kings: They have given loads and loads of time to guys like IT and MT and have been a bottom-feeding lottery team for years. Only and insane person continues doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Only Westphal gave Jimmer a chance, but he threw him to the wolves during the first few days of his rookie season. And surprise! Jimmer fell flat. But to assume that he hasn't progressed since his first few games of his rookie season is idiotic.
Jerry Sloan became a great coach because he gave minutes to guys that worked for it. Even if they were less than athletic, even if they had smaller resumes than some of the other lottery picks he had, he always gave shots to the guys who showed up every day before anyone else and busted their butts at practice. This is how John Stockton came about - he had worse stats than Jimmer his first couple years. He still holds the record for assists and steals today. On the other hand, you've got Deron Williams who refused to work hard and listen to his coach who eventually got shipped out to the garbage team in New Jersey. Remember when DWill was being compared to Chris Paul? Now, he's a practically become a nobody.
I'm saying that Jimmer has earned the right for minutes, if for no other reason than he's put in his time on the practice court. But even beyond that, he's earned it because he actually showed it in his PER during real games last year where he was given half a shot.
But here is what I DO know about the Kings: They have given loads and loads of time to guys like IT and MT and have been a bottom-feeding lottery team for years. Only and insane person continues doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Only Westphal gave Jimmer a chance, but he threw him to the wolves during the first few days of his rookie season. And surprise! Jimmer fell flat. But to assume that he hasn't progressed since his first few games of his rookie season is idiotic.
Jerry Sloan became a great coach because he gave minutes to guys that worked for it. Even if they were less than athletic, even if they had smaller resumes than some of the other lottery picks he had, he always gave shots to the guys who showed up every day before anyone else and busted their butts at practice. This is how John Stockton came about - he had worse stats than Jimmer his first couple years. He still holds the record for assists and steals today. On the other hand, you've got Deron Williams who refused to work hard and listen to his coach who eventually got shipped out to the garbage team in New Jersey. Remember when DWill was being compared to Chris Paul? Now, he's a practically become a nobody.
I'm saying that Jimmer has earned the right for minutes, if for no other reason than he's put in his time on the practice court. But even beyond that, he's earned it because he actually showed it in his PER during real games last year where he was given half a shot.
Let's look at some preseason numbers. Here are four Kings guards' stats from this preaseason, adjusted to 36 minutes. Obviously this is a small sample size and of course all the standard caveats about per 36 minute numbers apply. That said, the MPG of these four guards aren't that different, 18.8 mpg, 22.3 mpg, 23.8 mpg and 26.2 mpg.
Here's an honest question, if this is really an open competition for jobs who has looked the best in these preseason snapshots?
One of these players is Ben McLemore and he has undeniable upside, better rebounding and has looked like the best defender of the bunch even as he struggles through lots of rookie miscues. Plus his style of play makes him a good fit with DMC.
The other three? None of them are significantly better defensively than the others and you can argue all of their fit with Cousins. So which one has earned PT just based on the preseason thus far?
I'm a Kings fan and I'm honestly not pulling for any player over another, I just want to see the team succeed. But IMO Jimmer has enough of a backlash created by fans frustrated by Jimmer supporters that I don't think he really does get a fair shake.
Here's an honest question, if this is really an open competition for jobs who has looked the best in these preseason snapshots?
One of these players is Ben McLemore and he has undeniable upside, better rebounding and has looked like the best defender of the bunch even as he struggles through lots of rookie miscues. Plus his style of play makes him a good fit with DMC.
The other three? None of them are significantly better defensively than the others and you can argue all of their fit with Cousins. So which one has earned PT just based on the preseason thus far?
I'm a Kings fan and I'm honestly not pulling for any player over another, I just want to see the team succeed. But IMO Jimmer has enough of a backlash created by fans frustrated by Jimmer supporters that I don't think he really does get a fair shake.
hey, i'm no huge fan of isaiah thomas, either. i think he's a sixth man at absolute best in the nba. his size presents a problem on defense and, as you've noted, he's an unrepentant chucker. HOWEVER, thomas is certainly more athletic than jimmer, he can handle the ball, and he can get to the rim with moderate consistency. if i were choosing between the two of them to fill a back-up role based purely on their limited size/skillsets, i'd choose IT...
personally, i don't care if the kings give jimmer a "fair shake" or not. if he gets minutes here and there, that's fine. but if he doesn't, that's fine, as well. he's not built for the contemporary nba. his size and lack of athleticism don't check out for a SG. he could make up for a lack of athleticism at PG if he could dribble under pressure, but that's also a tremendous weakness in his game. he's a classic tweener. dude can shoot lights out, but so can a whole helluvalotta other guys in the nba. and, to put an even finer point on it, the kings quite literally just drafted another shooter who can't dribble, but who has the height to effectively play SG, who is considerably more athletic than jimmer, who can provide additional rebounding, and who has the physical gifts to be a good defender...
is there a future for fredette in the nba? i'd say so, but once again, it will likely be a journeyman's career, and he'll likely have to adapt to a specialist's role as a spot-up shooter off the bench, because nobody is going to give jimmer the "fair shake" that his most ardent supporters desperately want him to get, not when there will always be more athletic players in front of him in the pecking order. he'll get minutes, but i don't suspect he'll ever be showcased in any consistently meaningful way. we'll see if some team out there proves me wrong, though. i hope the best for the kid. i truly do. he's a good-hearted young man and an exceptional teammate. i just don't think he's a strong rotation-level talent in the nba...
personally, i don't care if the kings give jimmer a "fair shake" or not. if he gets minutes here and there, that's fine. but if he doesn't, that's fine, as well. he's not built for the contemporary nba. his size and lack of athleticism don't check out for a SG. he could make up for a lack of athleticism at PG if he could dribble under pressure, but that's also a tremendous weakness in his game. he's a classic tweener. dude can shoot lights out, but so can a whole helluvalotta other guys in the nba. and, to put an even finer point on it, the kings quite literally just drafted another shooter who can't dribble, but who has the height to effectively play SG, who is considerably more athletic than jimmer, who can provide additional rebounding, and who has the physical gifts to be a good defender...
is there a future for fredette in the nba? i'd say so, but once again, it will likely be a journeyman's career, and he'll likely have to adapt to a specialist's role as a spot-up shooter off the bench, because nobody is going to give jimmer the "fair shake" that his most ardent supporters desperately want him to get, not when there will always be more athletic players in front of him in the pecking order. he'll get minutes, but i don't suspect he'll ever be showcased in any consistently meaningful way. we'll see if some team out there proves me wrong, though. i hope the best for the kid. i truly do. he's a good-hearted young man and an exceptional teammate. i just don't think he's a strong rotation-level talent in the nba...
G
You keep talking about how he's not "athletic" enough or his size is lacking, etc. Who gives a flying fridge about the player's "athleticism" if the results end up being as good or better? IT's D is just as repulsive as anyone I've seen in this league even with all that athleticism. I think Jimmer is a lot smarter than IT as a floor general, so whatever he loses in "athleticism" is made up for in intelligence easily.
This line of thinking is just plain bull.
This line of thinking is just plain bull.
Let's look at some preseason numbers. Here are four Kings guards' stats from this preaseason, adjusted to 36 minutes. Obviously this is a small sample size and of course all the standard caveats about per 36 minute numbers apply. That said, the MPG of these four guards aren't that different, 18.8 mpg, 22.3 mpg, 23.8 mpg and 26.2 mpg.
Here's an honest question, if this is really an open competition for jobs who has looked the best in these preseason snapshots?
One of these players is Ben McLemore and he has undeniable upside, better rebounding and has looked like the best defender of the bunch even as he struggles through lots of rookie miscues. Plus his style of play makes him a good fit with DMC.
The other three? None of them are significantly better defensively than the others and you can argue all of their fit with Cousins. So which one has earned PT just based on the preseason thus far?
I'm a Kings fan and I'm honestly not pulling for any player over another, I just want to see the team succeed. But IMO Jimmer has enough of a backlash created by fans frustrated by Jimmer supporters that I don't think he really does get a fair shake.
Here's an honest question, if this is really an open competition for jobs who has looked the best in these preseason snapshots?
One of these players is Ben McLemore and he has undeniable upside, better rebounding and has looked like the best defender of the bunch even as he struggles through lots of rookie miscues. Plus his style of play makes him a good fit with DMC.
The other three? None of them are significantly better defensively than the others and you can argue all of their fit with Cousins. So which one has earned PT just based on the preseason thus far?
I'm a Kings fan and I'm honestly not pulling for any player over another, I just want to see the team succeed. But IMO Jimmer has enough of a backlash created by fans frustrated by Jimmer supporters that I don't think he really does get a fair shake.
mclemore has enough upside to consider him a lock for playing time, in general, particularly given the fact that he's the new regime's guy, whereas thomas, fredette, and thornton are leftovers from a failed regime. i'd start greivis vasquez, as well as marcus thornton just to pump up whatever trade value he might have before the deadline, spell vasquez with thomas, spell thornton with mclemore, and give jimmer some garbage-time minutes. it's just the way it is. this team is not the least bit balanced, so someone has to get left out of the rotation, that is, unless fans want to go back to the keith smart platoon strategy of trotting out twelve players every game. i certainly don't want to see a return to that kind of rotation. in my opinion, jimmer provides the most limited skill set of the bunch, so he gets left out. boo-hoo. this is professional basketball.
Dude, what's with the attitude? Lose it and we could all have a pretty decent discussion...
You can argue against athleticism all you like, just like fans of IT argue that height doesn't matter. Sorry, but it's just not true for the vast majority of players attempting to make the jump from college to NBA.
You want Jimmer to get a decent shot. This year, under the new regime, most of us believe he'll get it. Some of us are more than a little jaded, however, because of the number of Jimmer fanboys who have shown up around here without giving a damn about the Kings. All they care about is their fave player. Hey, we get it. You loved him at BYU and you want to see him become the next great PG. Well, we're not convinced because we haven't seen him step up to the next level, the level that guarantees he gets more than just one contract as a professional basketball player.
Most of us don't dislike him and I don't think any of us wish him anything but the best. A good Jimmer would be a great asset for OUR KINGS. Good players find a way to get onto the court. If your guy can't do that, that's on him - ESPECIALLY this season with a new look from owner to coach.
You can argue against athleticism all you like, just like fans of IT argue that height doesn't matter. Sorry, but it's just not true for the vast majority of players attempting to make the jump from college to NBA.
You want Jimmer to get a decent shot. This year, under the new regime, most of us believe he'll get it. Some of us are more than a little jaded, however, because of the number of Jimmer fanboys who have shown up around here without giving a damn about the Kings. All they care about is their fave player. Hey, we get it. You loved him at BYU and you want to see him become the next great PG. Well, we're not convinced because we haven't seen him step up to the next level, the level that guarantees he gets more than just one contract as a professional basketball player.
Most of us don't dislike him and I don't think any of us wish him anything but the best. A good Jimmer would be a great asset for OUR KINGS. Good players find a way to get onto the court. If your guy can't do that, that's on him - ESPECIALLY this season with a new look from owner to coach.
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How about we give Thomas and Thornton some garbage time minutes this year and see if they can maintain Jimmer's PER from last year with limited time. Then perhaps we'll have a better picture of these players' skills. MT and IT clearly have the worst skill set of all of them. They are the biggest "chuckers" on this team by a long shot. It's become obvious that Malone wants a pass/teamwork heavy system this year and IT and MT simply don't fit that mold. Jimmer was doing an excellent job of getting everyone involved in the Suns game, unlike IT that throws the ball blindly off into the back-court hoping someone will miraculously be there to catch it every time.
i do, because unlike those who hawk on behalf of jimmer, i'm much more interested in the long-term prospects of the team. i care not one iota about an unathletic tweener guard whose nba prospects are limited, and who doesn't have much of a future on an offense-first team with an already-crowded non-defensive backcourt. i see long-term value in isaiah thomas as an inexpensive sparkplug off the bench. i do not see similar long-term value in jimmer. it's that simple. he gets squeezed out through no fault of his own. he was drafted far too high by cynical owners who wanted to sell his jersey for an influx of fast cash...
that said, i feel kinda sorry for jimmer. he should have been drafted later, with fewer expectations, and by a team that might be able to find a use his for his shooting off the bench. the kings are not that team, in my opinion. they need to bring in defensive personnel at the expense of their stockpile of offensively-inclined players. personally, i'm sick of comparing the dreadful defensive ability of isaiah thomas and jimmer fredette. sick. of. it. crying foul on IT's crapty defense is not a convincing argument to give jimmer more playing time. i'm looking at the overall skillsets of the two players, and while neither should come within a mile of starting, in my opinion, IT has more utility than jimmer off the bench, so jimmer gets squeezed outta the rotation...
that said, i feel kinda sorry for jimmer. he should have been drafted later, with fewer expectations, and by a team that might be able to find a use his for his shooting off the bench. the kings are not that team, in my opinion. they need to bring in defensive personnel at the expense of their stockpile of offensively-inclined players. personally, i'm sick of comparing the dreadful defensive ability of isaiah thomas and jimmer fredette. sick. of. it. crying foul on IT's crapty defense is not a convincing argument to give jimmer more playing time. i'm looking at the overall skillsets of the two players, and while neither should come within a mile of starting, in my opinion, IT has more utility than jimmer off the bench, so jimmer gets squeezed outta the rotation...
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Again, you can talk about this mythical "athleticism" all you want, but the stats simply don't back it up. If IT has a lot more athleticism, it's certainly not doing much for his own stats or the stats of this teams win %.
Give a damn about this team? So these "Jimmer" fans show up and all of a sudden you think we're going to screw this team up after multiple years of the Kings sitting in the cellar of the league's rankings? What a joke! If there's a problem with the fans, it's those fans who've been pushing these loser players like IT and MT for so long giving the team several terrible years in Sacramento.
Jimmer hasn't stepped up? Are you serious? He's put in more time on the court before and after the rest of the players have gone home to prove he's "stepping up". I'm sure he'd love to show he's stepped up if someone would give him a few minutes on the court to prove it. And guess what, even with all those terrible minutes, he's been as productive as anyone in this league.
I'd love to believe that. But at least with Smart, that's been painfully false. Things may change with Malone, of which I have no grief with so far, but the fans around here seem to be still stuck in the Smart mindset of, "let's just keep playing IT and MT because that's how Smart did things". Screw Smart and that mindset.
Give a damn about this team? So these "Jimmer" fans show up and all of a sudden you think we're going to screw this team up after multiple years of the Kings sitting in the cellar of the league's rankings? What a joke! If there's a problem with the fans, it's those fans who've been pushing these loser players like IT and MT for so long giving the team several terrible years in Sacramento.
Jimmer hasn't stepped up? Are you serious? He's put in more time on the court before and after the rest of the players have gone home to prove he's "stepping up". I'm sure he'd love to show he's stepped up if someone would give him a few minutes on the court to prove it. And guess what, even with all those terrible minutes, he's been as productive as anyone in this league.
I'd love to believe that. But at least with Smart, that's been painfully false. Things may change with Malone, of which I have no grief with so far, but the fans around here seem to be still stuck in the Smart mindset of, "let's just keep playing IT and MT because that's how Smart did things". Screw Smart and that mindset.
why? i mean... just... why? what would that prove? more to the point, what does jimmer's PER prove, given such limited minutes? so many jimmer fans are living in a fantasy world where giving jimmer more minutes solves the kings problems. it does not. giving jimmer more minutes is good for jimmer. it may or may not be good for the team. coach is going to make a decision based on the latter factor, and jimmer will have to make use of whatever minutes he gets. i suspect they won't amount to much, but we'll just have to wait and see...
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So you see a "long-term" prospect in IT and MT? Wonderful. 3 years with those guys running this crappy team is long enough "term" for me, by far. I've had enough. If you don't see that, I'm sorry for you.
Again, cut the "unathletic tweener" garbage. Give me stats that show IT's "athleticism" is so much better than Jimmer's and you can argue something.
And if the goal here is to trade Jimmer, then by-gosh, TRADE HIM! Please! I would love nothing more than to get him off this loser team and onto one with fans and players that understand basketball.
Again, cut the "unathletic tweener" garbage. Give me stats that show IT's "athleticism" is so much better than Jimmer's and you can argue something.
And if the goal here is to trade Jimmer, then by-gosh, TRADE HIM! Please! I would love nothing more than to get him off this loser team and onto one with fans and players that understand basketball.
Let's look at some preseason numbers. Here are four Kings guards' stats from this preaseason, adjusted to 36 minutes. Obviously this is a small sample size and of course all the standard caveats about per 36 minute numbers apply. That said, the MPG of these four guards aren't that different, 18.8 mpg, 22.3 mpg, 23.8 mpg and 26.2 mpg.
Here's an honest question, if this is really an open competition for jobs who has looked the best in these preseason snapshots?
One of these players is Ben McLemore and he has undeniable upside, better rebounding and has looked like the best defender of the bunch even as he struggles through lots of rookie miscues. Plus his style of play makes him a good fit with DMC.
The other three? None of them are significantly better defensively than the others and you can argue all of their fit with Cousins. So which one has earned PT just based on the preseason thus far?
I'm a Kings fan and I'm honestly not pulling for any player over another, I just want to see the team succeed. But IMO Jimmer has enough of a backlash created by fans frustrated by Jimmer supporters that I don't think he really does get a fair shake.
Here's an honest question, if this is really an open competition for jobs who has looked the best in these preseason snapshots?
One of these players is Ben McLemore and he has undeniable upside, better rebounding and has looked like the best defender of the bunch even as he struggles through lots of rookie miscues. Plus his style of play makes him a good fit with DMC.
The other three? None of them are significantly better defensively than the others and you can argue all of their fit with Cousins. So which one has earned PT just based on the preseason thus far?
I'm a Kings fan and I'm honestly not pulling for any player over another, I just want to see the team succeed. But IMO Jimmer has enough of a backlash created by fans frustrated by Jimmer supporters that I don't think he really does get a fair shake.
Just because I'm a little masochistic, consider what could have been if Tyreke was the starting point guard next to Guards B and D in the chart above. All of a sudden, your backcourt is no longer a defensive sieve and you bring size and athleticism at both guard positions instead of just McLemore's time at the 2.
C'est la vie.
Jimmer's competition is not IT and Vasquez. He's not a PG. His handle is just far too weak.
If he's going to make it as an NBA player it will be as an undersized SG where he can make the most of his shooting ability off-the-ball. So he will compete with Thornton and McLemore for minutes.
Also, in case you haven't noticed this website's address, its KINGSfans.com. Therefore most of the posters you will find here are fans of the Sacramento Kings. Jimmer Fredette is a member of the Sacramento Kings, so on THIS website you will find most of the members concerned with how Jimmer Fredette can benefit the Sacramento Kings. Now, if you are interested in the reverse, where you can discuss how the Sacramento Kings can further Jimmer Fredette's career, you are welcome to create a JIMMERfans.com where people with dispositions such as yourself can discuss what the Kings should be doing to do just that.
In the meantime, while you are enjoying the conversation on KINGSfans.com, you need to understand that playing Jimmer Fredette at PG instead of IT and Vasquez does not benefit the Sacramento Kings, it only benefits Jimmer Fredette's career prospects. In fact, it may just damage his career prospects because Jimmer is unsuited to such a role and will fail at it. So, instead of trashing what are, as of right now, the ONLY options the Sacramento Kings have at PG (Vasquez and IT) in favor of advancing Jimmer Fredette's career, maybe its time to dial down the inciteful rhetoric and remember exactly which website you've surfed on into.
If he's going to make it as an NBA player it will be as an undersized SG where he can make the most of his shooting ability off-the-ball. So he will compete with Thornton and McLemore for minutes.
Also, in case you haven't noticed this website's address, its KINGSfans.com. Therefore most of the posters you will find here are fans of the Sacramento Kings. Jimmer Fredette is a member of the Sacramento Kings, so on THIS website you will find most of the members concerned with how Jimmer Fredette can benefit the Sacramento Kings. Now, if you are interested in the reverse, where you can discuss how the Sacramento Kings can further Jimmer Fredette's career, you are welcome to create a JIMMERfans.com where people with dispositions such as yourself can discuss what the Kings should be doing to do just that.
In the meantime, while you are enjoying the conversation on KINGSfans.com, you need to understand that playing Jimmer Fredette at PG instead of IT and Vasquez does not benefit the Sacramento Kings, it only benefits Jimmer Fredette's career prospects. In fact, it may just damage his career prospects because Jimmer is unsuited to such a role and will fail at it. So, instead of trashing what are, as of right now, the ONLY options the Sacramento Kings have at PG (Vasquez and IT) in favor of advancing Jimmer Fredette's career, maybe its time to dial down the inciteful rhetoric and remember exactly which website you've surfed on into.
Comment to first boldfaced trio of words: no, it doesn't matter! The major problem is that the rabid Jimmer following can't see this as they wait patiently for Jimmer to erupt and become the college-Jimmer. Hmm, or perhaps they are waiting for the quality of players in the NBA to lower to small Div I conference level. One or the other as the result is the same.
and to the latter: boy, you are a meanie!!
and to the latter: boy, you are a meanie!!
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"His handle is just far too weak". More useless jargon with no stats to back it up. Jimmer has been as productive or more so as any guard on this team playing at the point. Look up the stats, hell look at the pre-season stats so far. Jimmer can play on the ball as a point guard as well as anyone on this team.
In case you haven't noticed the title of this thread is about Jimmer. If you want to talk about all the players in general make your own thread. And when haven't I been talking about how Jimmer can help this team? It's others who have been pushing players who have led this team in ruin over the past few years.
Right. So giving more time to Jimmer means that it's suddenly all about Jimmer, but giving time to someone else who sucks is helping the team. That's a new excuse I certainly haven't heard before. Jimmer has been the most patient, unselfish player on this team through all of this, and you accuse him of wanting to play more just to pad his "career prospects"? Unbelievable.
That proves right there that you are a biased. You've made up in your mind that he will fail before he even has a chance to prove himself on the court with any consistent minutes.
IT and Vasquez are the only options? Look up at the stats, IT has the worst stats on this team right now other than his fake assists.
In case you haven't noticed the title of this thread is about Jimmer. If you want to talk about all the players in general make your own thread. And when haven't I been talking about how Jimmer can help this team? It's others who have been pushing players who have led this team in ruin over the past few years.
Right. So giving more time to Jimmer means that it's suddenly all about Jimmer, but giving time to someone else who sucks is helping the team. That's a new excuse I certainly haven't heard before. Jimmer has been the most patient, unselfish player on this team through all of this, and you accuse him of wanting to play more just to pad his "career prospects"? Unbelievable.
That proves right there that you are a biased. You've made up in your mind that he will fail before he even has a chance to prove himself on the court with any consistent minutes.
IT and Vasquez are the only options? Look up at the stats, IT has the worst stats on this team right now other than his fake assists.
Not that it matters, but I would have loved to hear the actual decision making process that went in to drafting Jimmer. The #MALOOFED explanation would be that our former owners wanted Jimmermania and that's all. The basketball argument would've been that he'd mesh extremely well with Tyreke. That was what I hung my hopes on after a very disappointing draft night. That Tyreke could move to the two but still initiate/dominate the offense while Jimmer gave him (and DMC) a sweet shooting release valve who could also handle the ball and pass. Fredette's initial and continuing (though somewhat mitigated) deficiencies were really the biggest surprise to me regarding his game in the NBA.
And for the same reasons, McLemore seems like a great fit alongside Tyreke with the added bonus that it gives the Kings an obvious size mismatch at one guard spot. Unfortunately I think teams would simply switch their PG onto McLemore and he doesn't have the off the dribble attack OR the post game to punish them for it. Either way it's a moot point. I've made my peace with Evans' departure if only because if DeMarcus was adamant about Tyreke being re-signed, he would have been re-signed. It's DMC's team now.
Back on topic, my sincere hope this season was that Thornton would start at SG, be a consistent and sometimes explosive second scorer to DMC and that after putting up around 20-22 ppg he'd be a useful trade piece at the deadline at which time McLemore would be ready to start. Unfortunately I honestly think Fredette has outplayed him thus far in the preseason. Both are terrible defensively, but Thornton just looks disinterested where Jimmer is actually giving good effort and has made noticeable strides in many areas. Based on what I've seen thus far, MT has not proved he deserves minutes which is frustrating to me.
And for the same reasons, McLemore seems like a great fit alongside Tyreke with the added bonus that it gives the Kings an obvious size mismatch at one guard spot. Unfortunately I think teams would simply switch their PG onto McLemore and he doesn't have the off the dribble attack OR the post game to punish them for it. Either way it's a moot point. I've made my peace with Evans' departure if only because if DeMarcus was adamant about Tyreke being re-signed, he would have been re-signed. It's DMC's team now.
Back on topic, my sincere hope this season was that Thornton would start at SG, be a consistent and sometimes explosive second scorer to DMC and that after putting up around 20-22 ppg he'd be a useful trade piece at the deadline at which time McLemore would be ready to start. Unfortunately I honestly think Fredette has outplayed him thus far in the preseason. Both are terrible defensively, but Thornton just looks disinterested where Jimmer is actually giving good effort and has made noticeable strides in many areas. Based on what I've seen thus far, MT has not proved he deserves minutes which is frustrating to me.
I don't care about comparing Jimmer to IT. To me, this is a false argument and a desperate bid by some Jimmer fans to find a way to make their hero look better.
Excuse me? I haven't said any such thing. I HAVE said, repeatedly over the past couple of years, that I think Jimmer should be given a fair shot. And please do not even attempt to lecture me about terrible years for the Kings. I've been a diehard fan since 1985. I've seen a lot more terrible than I have great and I still love my team. For me it's about the name on the front.
And you know this how exactly? Jimmer has been as productive AS ANYONE IN THIS LEAGUE? Really? Sorry but any kind of credibility you may have hoped to create disappeared with that ridiculous statement.
In case you missed the news, Keith Smart is no longer the head coach. And, even better (brace yourself) the Maloofs no longer own the team. It's a new era. If you want to continue to harp on the past, feel free to do so but it has little to no relevant to the present.
Excuse me? I haven't said any such thing. I HAVE said, repeatedly over the past couple of years, that I think Jimmer should be given a fair shot. And please do not even attempt to lecture me about terrible years for the Kings. I've been a diehard fan since 1985. I've seen a lot more terrible than I have great and I still love my team. For me it's about the name on the front.
And you know this how exactly? Jimmer has been as productive AS ANYONE IN THIS LEAGUE? Really? Sorry but any kind of credibility you may have hoped to create disappeared with that ridiculous statement.
In case you missed the news, Keith Smart is no longer the head coach. And, even better (brace yourself) the Maloofs no longer own the team. It's a new era. If you want to continue to harp on the past, feel free to do so but it has little to no relevant to the present.
I'm honestly surprised that there are still deranged Jimmer fans out there. I started watching the Kings when they drafted him because I was curious to see if his college game would translate. I have hung around to see if Cousins would develop into a star.
Jimmer did not play well at all his first season. He did better last season, but hardly broke out. We can talk all day long about how bad Coach Smart was, about how his lineups made no sense, about how he jerked minutes around for all of the players, but the fact remains that if Jimmer had outplayed IT in any meaningful way, he would have seen the floor. He didn't.
Preseason he has looked better, but hardly like a star. If he gets play time as a result, great. If not, he will be a free agent in the offseason and contenders are always looking for cheap shooters on the bench.
Maybe everyone can win and he goes to the Lakers down the road. He is certainly better than the Lakers bench guards, so he will definitely get play time. The Kings fans who hate him can then boo him with all their hearts.
Jimmer did not play well at all his first season. He did better last season, but hardly broke out. We can talk all day long about how bad Coach Smart was, about how his lineups made no sense, about how he jerked minutes around for all of the players, but the fact remains that if Jimmer had outplayed IT in any meaningful way, he would have seen the floor. He didn't.
Preseason he has looked better, but hardly like a star. If he gets play time as a result, great. If not, he will be a free agent in the offseason and contenders are always looking for cheap shooters on the bench.
Maybe everyone can win and he goes to the Lakers down the road. He is certainly better than the Lakers bench guards, so he will definitely get play time. The Kings fans who hate him can then boo him with all their hearts.
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So Jimmer is dominating Marcus in the preseason but yet, "damn, how can we still give the 2 to MT?" It's this mindset that has hurt the Kings for years. Same thing goes for Tyreke, which I find hilariously ironic. He was an even bigger disappointment than Fredette, but has his minutes gone down? No, of course not, because we have a double standard here.
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Awesome, so you insult me personally by calling me "deranged". Are you going to get a PM from the moderator like I did about civility? I doubt it.
But he did outplay him, the stats show it pretty clearly when he was on the floor.
So now he's got to be a "star" to get some consistent minutes on this team? Please D'Alessandro, release Jimmer, he's not good enough for all these stars on your incredible roster. LOL
But he did outplay him, the stats show it pretty clearly when he was on the floor.
So now he's got to be a "star" to get some consistent minutes on this team? Please D'Alessandro, release Jimmer, he's not good enough for all these stars on your incredible roster. LOL
LOL.
As productive as anyone on the team is what you meant to say? Ever hear of Cousins?
Quit preaching Jimmer as the next John Stockton and maybe we'll all find a happy medium somewhere.
Face it. You're the second Jimmer fan to show up in two days and act as though you and you alone know the answers to all the problems of the Kings. That, to be frank, is horse crap. Most of us here have been Kings fans for a very, very long time. We've lived through HELL the past few years as our previous owners tried to spirit our beloved team away from us. We've fought the good fight. We kept watching the games even though it just about tore our hearts out to hear how MOST of the sports world had already moved our team to Anaheim or Seattle.
Believe me. We get it. You truly want to see Jimmer succeed. Well, as has been mentioned before, this is KINGSFANS.com, not ILOVEJIMMER.COM - we've seen many player fans come and go over the years.
As productive as anyone on the team is what you meant to say? Ever hear of Cousins?
Quit preaching Jimmer as the next John Stockton and maybe we'll all find a happy medium somewhere.
Face it. You're the second Jimmer fan to show up in two days and act as though you and you alone know the answers to all the problems of the Kings. That, to be frank, is horse crap. Most of us here have been Kings fans for a very, very long time. We've lived through HELL the past few years as our previous owners tried to spirit our beloved team away from us. We've fought the good fight. We kept watching the games even though it just about tore our hearts out to hear how MOST of the sports world had already moved our team to Anaheim or Seattle.
Believe me. We get it. You truly want to see Jimmer succeed. Well, as has been mentioned before, this is KINGSFANS.com, not ILOVEJIMMER.COM - we've seen many player fans come and go over the years.
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