Kings vs Timberwolves - Summer League Game 4

Knew I would get one of these. Typical.

I don't care if you don't like the moves. I DO care when you start making baseless claims that PDA and Vivek are worse than Gavin+Petrie.
But is there any base to say that they aren't? That's the whole point ... And Gavin + Petrie seemed pretty decent when we were a good team. It's just his opinion sheesh, and truth be told there's nothing that you or I can pull out to prove it one way or the other. No point in having a problem with it and all that.

Anyway enough from me, all people ever seem to be arguing about these days are each other's speculation. And then one side will play the victim and be all "ohh just because I disagree I get put down", and then they will respond by putting the other side down and it just goes on and on and on and on. Can't wait for the season to start so we cna finally start talking about basketball.
 

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
in his interview with nbatv, he was asked what he liked about ray mcCallum and his answer was his old coach told him ray was gonna be a good player....i mean he cant make decisions by himself or what...
Now, I haven't spent a whole lot of time recently defending our front office moves (outside of the Mbah a Moute trade), but that's a completely unfair interpretation of PD'A's statement. What PD'A said, in more than one interview, was that he had had an eye on McCallum for a while, that he went to scout a game in person and sat with his old coach, and that they both agreed that McCallum had potential. He wasn't saying that he drafted McCallum on the strength of somebody else's evaluation, it was a cute anecdote about continuing to agree with his old coach.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Yes, the FO haven't shown any evidence that they know what they are doing, yet.

Vivek said Mac was #1 on their big board. (He may be just saying that because he just drafted him, but..) Lets assume Mac was really #1 on or FO's big board. Did they really do enough homework on him to know his game and then made that judgement?

I'm not saying Mac is going to be a bust because he hasn't played well in the summer league, but if our FO was telling the truth, then they are saying that they would've took Mac at #1 even if we had the #1 pick.

All this signing of talent from the Warriors and going after players they have familiarity with is just getting old. Can they evaluate talent elsewhere other than people they already know?

Another question is, did they think Tyreke wasn't worth $11 million a year because they didn't have a history with him? So far, it just seems that since they didn't know Tyreke first hand, they evaluated that he is not worth $11 million a year. Honestly $11 mil was a fair deal.

Sad to say that as much as people used to blame GP, these guys aren't any better by any means. I would argue that the GP + Gavin (as a talent evaluator), has been better than what PDA + Vivek has shown.
We had years upon which to base our opinions of Petrie. You can argue that GP + Gavin were better than what PDA + Vivek have shown, but you have no real basis for comparing results...yet. I know it's considered de rigueur around here to not cut the new guys any slack, but this is getting to be totally ridiculous.

The Jamal said:
Have we played an NBA minute? Do you know what our record is at the end of the season? Is Cousins an All-star? Does Vasquez get better? How Thornton? IT? Clue me in so I know where to bet this year.

This last statement ticks me off. You have no damn idea how good our team will be next year. Or the true impact Malone might have. I wonder if you'll stand by that statement if we go win 40+ games next year?
I agree with The Jamal. NONE of us knows how good the team will be next year but some are certainly adamant that theirs is the only opinion that matters. All I'm looking for is for fans to give our new owners and new front office a little time before they try and run them out of town.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
But is there any base to say that they aren't? That's the whole point ... And Gavin + Petrie seemed pretty decent when we were a good team. It's just his opinion sheesh, and truth be told there's nothing that you or I can pull out to prove it one way or the other. No point in having a problem with it and all that.

Anyway enough from me, all people ever seem to be arguing about these days are each other's speculation. And then one side will play the victim and be all "ohh just because I disagree I get put down", and then they will respond by putting the other side down and it just goes on and on and on and on. Can't wait for the season to start so we cna finally start talking about basketball.
You and me both. :)
 
But is there any base to say that they aren't? That's the whole point ... And Gavin + Petrie seemed pretty decent when we were a good team. It's just his opinion sheesh, and truth be told there's nothing that you or I can pull out to prove it one way or the other. No point in having a problem with it and all that.

Anyway enough from me, all people ever seem to be arguing about these days are each other's speculation. And then one side will play the victim and be all "ohh just because I disagree I get put down", and then they will respond by putting the other side down and it just goes on and on and on and on. Can't wait for the season to start so we cna finally start talking about basketball.
Uhh yah, The team is called the Sacramento Kings and not the Seattle Sonics. That's how I know anyone is better than a Maloof. I know what you were getting at but anything Maloof just ticks me off because there wouldn't be a team if there was a Maloof still owning the Kings.


Also, I am glad I had some people agreeing with me about MT. People are acting like he's just trade fodder or something. The dude is our second best player and with GV we no longer have a midget back court so why not start MT/GV together?

I will guarantee that if Thornton starts this year he will average 18-21 ppg on 45% shooting and 39% 3pt.
 
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I know.. I was just taking it "there" lol. Mostly a joke, but anything Maloof still gets the blood boiling.
Haha fair enough. Btw given our current team I agree with you about MT. He was very much a chucker last season and even the one before, but he's talented and young, and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt now that he rightly has to look for his own shot more. One concern I have about starting him and having MLM on the bench is that nobody is going to be able to create for MLM (arguably there's nobody who can create for him in the starting line up either, save for Cousins but that will be more on kick outs as opposed to having us running Ben off of screens)
 
Before the Summer League (actually on Draft Day), I had McLemore starting over Thornton, but Summer League has obviously shown me McLemore will need time to ease into the NBA and it'd be better for him to develop this season off the bench, rather than throwing him onto the court, playing him big minutes, and expecting big results.
 
Now, I haven't spent a whole lot of time recently defending our front office moves (outside of the Mbah a Moute trade), but that's a completely unfair interpretation of PD'A's statement. What PD'A said, in more than one interview, was that he had had an eye on McCallum for a while, that he went to scout a game in person and sat with his old coach, and that they both agreed that McCallum had potential. He wasn't saying that he drafted McCallum on the strength of somebody else's evaluation, it was a cute anecdote about continuing to agree with his old coach.
it just seems to me he has no ideas of his own...and maybe its because of guys like mullen in viveks ear or someone in PDAs ear...he even only went to go scout him because someone told him to...just because your scouting him for another team doesnt mean he fits with this team or that is a reason to draft a guy..."oh... well i was scouting him while i was on the nuggets so i drafted him while here with the kings". to me i dont like that answer, thats a cop out...and just because carl landry was good on the warriors doesnt mean he'll be good on this team..."oh well i saw him play while i was with the warriors so i signed him here"- cop out...its seems to me he has no concept of "fit"..when asked about being guard heavy he said "well we have a lot of versitile guards"
 
Have we played an NBA minute? Do you know what our record is at the end of the season? Is Cousins an All-star? Does Vasquez get better? How Thornton? IT? Clue me in so I know where to bet this year.

This last statement ticks me off. You have no damn idea how good our team will be next year. Or the true impact Malone might have. I wonder if you'll stand by that statement if we go win 40+ games next year?

I think you are getting really worked up for no reason. The sample size is small, but from what the new FO has done so far, they have not been very slick. My opinions are based on what they've done so far. Of course the FO can improve. Heck, I sure hope they will.

It goes both ways though. Would you have gotten all worked up if I jumped the gun and declared that the new FOs is way better than GP + Gavin ever was? Would you have told me to wait until after the season first?

My opinions based on the moves so far..

At $11 million, Tyreke's contract is very tradable. I think the league knows what Reke can do. He may not be the superstar that he had potential to be at one point, but he can still be a very very good player in the right scenario.

My issue with the FO so far is they offered Iguodala a reported $14 million a year for 4 years while letting a younger talent like Reke walk. I would say that Iggy's contract is less tradable then Tyreke's $11 mil/yr in the future. Thats if we ever wanted to trade them. Newsflash, Iggy being a sidekick is not worth that kind of money. He put up good numbers as the franchise back in Philly. But as a semi role player veteran, his impact wouldn't have been that great. The FO made that offer in order to make a splash. Locking up that amount of money at SF is not what we need.

Most of their targets are ex Warriors or Nuggets players. This may not bother you but it bothers many people here. My opinion on that is I'm trying to see it from both sides.

Our FO reportedly offered Monta Ellis a contract. Why let Reke walk and try to bring in a guy there is also a "not a real PG" type of player like Monta Ellis? At least Tyreke has always been a trooper, is unselfish and never been a detriment that many report Ellis to be. Ellis is a know chunker and Vivek should know that. Heck, PDA should've known that just by being in the league.

How was bringing in Monta going to improve the team? Of course you can say we won't know their record until after the season, but please, humor me with an explanation of why the FO evaluated that letting Tyreke walk and bringing in Monta would be a good move.

I'll go on record an say that I like Grevis. But it should be known that Grevis has not shown he is an equal to Tyreke in terms of talent and potential. Also, we got Grevis because Tyreke was going to walk and we would end up losing him for nothing. The FO did not set a plan that they would purposely set up this scenario where NO signs Reke to an offer sheet so we ultimately end up with our top prize, Grevis.

I understand what you are saying with waiting to see how players like Grevis plays first. But thats not the point. We didn't plan to trade for Grevis. We declined to match Tyreke's offer and thats why we ended up with Grevis.

Up until the boys started running into trouble in Vegas, GP+ Gavin made a series of moves that let to the most successful era of the franchise. Yea, I know the sample size for the current FO is small.

Oh, I'll give Vivek credit for hiring Malone. Thats one of the moves I liked, but we'll see.
 
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We had years upon which to base our opinions of Petrie. You can argue that GP + Gavin were better than what PDA + Vivek have shown, but you have no real basis for comparing results...yet. I know it's considered de rigueur around here to not cut the new guys any slack, but this is getting to be totally ridiculous.



I agree with The Jamal. NONE of us knows how good the team will be next year but some are certainly adamant that theirs is the only opinion that matters. All I'm looking for is for fans to give our new owners and new front office a little time before they try and run them out of town.

The FO has my support. I wish that they will do well. The fact that I pointed out what I don't like so far doesn't mean I hate them. Its just constructive criticism that is really just a discussion on a board. Everyone has an opinion.
 
By that logic we have no idea how good our team would be every year. We could trade Cousins away for Patty Mills, hey we could be better wait and see! In fact let's not have a coach while we're at it, and just hire D-league players. For all we know we could be better.

It's ALL speculation. That's what being a fan is about, and Gibbs is entitled to his opinion every bit as much as you are. We speculate on how good our team is, on how moves will affect our performance. If every fan were to say "you have no damn idea how good our team will be" then what would the use of any sports discussion platform be? For everyone to just post "GO KINGS!" every single day? Even if we get a better record this year who's to say that it was all because of PDA + Vivek being better than GP + Maloofs? It could also be because the players simply improved naturally, and it had nothign to do with the FO or coaching staff. It's ALL speculation.

Yes, thank you. My opinions were based on what I've seen so far. It doesn't make things any better if we avoid ever saying anything negative and say "Go Kings" even when the FO makes so obvious bad moves.

When someone points out something negative, it doesn't mean that person now hates the team and no longer supports them. The reason we even care to discuss about this on this forum is that we care and love this team, no matter what. Thats why we care enough to have an opinion.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
I think you are getting really worked up for no reason. The sample size is small, but from what the new FO has done so far, they have not been very slick. My opinions are based on what they've done so far. Of course the FO can improve. Heck, I sure hope they will.

It goes both ways though. Would you have gotten all worked up if I jumped the gun and declared that the new FOs is way better than GP + Gavin ever was? Would you have told me to wait until after the season first?

My opinions based on the moves so far..

At $11 million, Tyreke's contract is very tradable. I think the league knows what Reke can do. He may not be the superstar that he had potential to be at one point, but he can still be a very very good player in the right scenario.

My issue with the FO so far is they offered Iguodala a reported $14 million a year for 4 years while letting a younger talent like Reke walk. I would say that Iggy's contract is less tradable then Tyreke's $11 mil/yr in the future. Thats if we ever wanted to trade them. Newsflash, Iggy being a sidekick is not worth that kind of money. He put up good numbers as the franchise back in Philly. But as a semi role player veteran, his impact wouldn't have been that great. The FO made that offer in order to make a splash. Locking up that amount of money at SF is not what we need.

Most of their targets are ex Warriors or Nuggets players. This may not bother you but it bothers many people here. My opinion on that is I'm trying to see it from both sides.

Our FO reportedly offered Monta Ellis a contract. Why let Reke walk and try to bring in a guy there is also a "not a real PG" type of player like Monta Ellis? At least Tyreke has always been a trooper, is unselfish and never been a detriment that many report Ellis to be. Ellis is a know chunker and Vivek should know that. Heck, PDA should've known that just by being in the league.

How was bringing in Monta going to improve the team? Of course you can say we won't know their record until after the season, but please, humor me with an explanation of why the FO evaluated that letting Tyreke walk and bringing in Monta would be a good move.


I'll go on record an say that I like Grevis. But it should be known that Grevis has not shown he is an equal to Tyreke in terms of talent and potential. Also, we got Grevis because Tyreke was going to walk and we would end up losing him for nothing. The FO did not set a plan that they would purposely set up this scenario where NO signs Reke to an offer sheet so we ultimately end up with our top prize, Grevis.

I understand what you are saying with waiting to see how players like Grevis plays first. But thats not the point. We didn't plan to trade for Grevis. We declined to match Tyreke's offer and thats why we ended up with Grevis.

Up until the boys started running into trouble in Vegas, GP+ Gavin made a series of moves that let to the most successful era of the franchise. Yea, I know the sample size for the current FO is small.

Oh, I'll give Vivek credit for hiring Malone. Thats one of the moves I liked, but we'll see.
There was never any substantiation to that particular rumor. If you're going to be fair, I don't think you can include this in your summary of the front office dealings thus far.