Why We Suck. The Real Reason

[sactownfan]

two words...FRONT LINE....

its 100% the reason why were not playing 500 ball or better....

Ok look... everyone has their reasons for our losses but seriously this is the real reason... and its so obvious i think people blame and rant on other things because the real problem is just so old and played out after so many years of the same problem...

things that arent the main reason we suck...

Westphal- line ups are a mess, mins, are a mess, questionable non timeout calls in the last mins of games... blah blah blah.... yeah hes to blame for some stuff... but honestly i think some of his mins/lineups that are in question are actually for trying to raise the trade stock of players like NOC, etc who couldn't be lower on teams radars... im waiting to see how mins are passed out after the trade deadline... Westphal is not perfect but in my eyes he doesn't come close to taking the blame for all these losses-- not the reason

its not Kevin... guys hes not close to 100%!... hes played 7 games all year! GIVE THE GUY A BREAK!!!! so many threads about trading him or not trading him... if he works with Evans or if he doesn't... yeah we've lost 2 games since Kevin's been back... SO WHAT!!! we were already losing a TON of games without him!!!! its gonna take awhile before we have the answer to if this team is better off without him or not... since Kevin wasn't here for our teams collapse.. its not Kevins fault!

Evans- Hes a stud... end of story... needs to continue to working on sharing, and not forcing jump shots when his jumper is so terrible... whatever tho, he's only a rookie and seriously will become so much better... yes Evans has missed game winners or messed up in the last mins of a few close games...but hes not the reason... IN FACT HES THE REASON WE WON MOST GAMES.

Casspi, Greene, and friends (SF's and SG's)... we've had some excellent play this year from most of these guys... are they all perfect? no have they made mistakes? yes... but really these guys have been pretty solid... not the reason

Beno- is just having a great comeback year... not perfect again but hardly the reason were blowing so many games-- not the reason

---FRONT LINE------ IS THE REASON!!!

first off... DEPTH--

there is none... thats a big problem... Brockman is one of my fav players right now. Hes is a rebound and hustle machine... but im sorry hes not the answer for a backup center or PF.... hes a great specialist! one of the best rebound specialists in the NBA! but sorry... hes not the depth a team needs to win and be successful... he is too short and is very limited on defense and has 0!!!! to offer on offense.....0!

so that leaves our bench with May and Kenny Thomas... enough said....

STARTERS--

Hawes- any questions? lol! wow talk about a bust so far HES OUR ONE AND ONLY TRUE CENTER (sigh)... so much skill... but just for the life of him cant realize it... he's got to be the softest big in the league, even brad miller would at least get PISSED OFF and start hard fouling the crap outa people! or get T'd up throwing his head band around... but Hawes just doesn't show much life.... just isn't showing any signs of being able to rebound or even finish what should be easiest of point blank shots... gets absolutely destroyed by bigs night in and night out... occasionally has his shots fall and will pull a few nifty hooks.

At this point the only thing consistent about him is that hes consistently destroyed by other bigs...

JT ! ! ! ----

now heres the guy i feel for...hes out on an island everygame... he's the only guy that has show any signs of being able to play in the Paint against some of the best in the league... in fact hes shown enough flashes to actually have expectations... i personally think hes just breaking down because HE HAS TO DO EVERYTHING FOR US in the paint... defense/offense it never ends! if JT has an off game we get crushed! no one other than Brockman helps pick up the slack (see brockman above).

THERES TOO MUCH PRESSURE ON JT RIGHT NOW AND HES BUCKLING...

yeah hes in a slump and as you'll notice our losses our pretty much tied to around the time JT began his slump...

HES A 2ND YEAR PLAYER BEING ASKED TO DO TOO MUCH WITH NO HELP!

JT is not perfect...he doesn't play as fast as last year... good! but still plays too fast at times... he commits bad fouls, turns the ball over and sometimes doesnt finish the easy point blank shots... but hes alot better at finishing up close than any on else so ?...

------------------------------------------------------------

so to rap it all up....

we will continue to lose until this FRONT LINE problem is corrected... nothing will help us win more... wither its trading Kevin, having Rubio at PG, not playing NOC or Sergio... non of that stuff will make a difference until the FRONT LINE problem is fixed...

WE NEED A REAL STARTING CALIBER CENTER THAT CAN DO THREE THINGS!!! REBOUND, BLOCK SHOTS, AND DUNK THE DAMN BALL WHEN HES RIGHT UNDER THE DAMN HOOP!!!!

thats what were missing, and thats why were losing... and until we FINALLY have those things from the 5 position. talking and ranting about anything else is totally irrelevant...

now lets all pray that Petrie will trade for Sam Dalembert at the trade deadline... im pretty sure he can do those 3 things... lol! but really any shot blocking/rebounding big will work... its been years since we've had it!!!!!



also as much as i cant stand Hawes right now... he is young and i am still holding out a little hope he will work hard and improve in a few years... but right now hes worthless

 

[vistacruza_kings]

yea hawes is a POS, but he is only 21, and as jerry always says "you have to be patient with big people and pg's"

 

[sactownfan]

yea hawes is a POS, but he is only 21, and as jerry always says "you have to be patient with big people and pg's"

Hawes is a border line back up Center right now... this thread is about why were losing right now... and its because of our FRONT LINE.... JT is the best we got, then Brockman, then Hawes, and then you got your choice of May, K9

 

[Grawlix]

You sir, are 100% correct. Any basketball teams anchor is their front line. We sink as they suck.

Bricklayer has said it for years now. WE NEED A BIG WHO REBOUNDS AND BLOCKS SHOTS. Someone to clog the lane and swat at the ball. A center who boxes out, instead of shoots ill-advised three pointers.

Shore up that front line Geoff! PF, C who cares. Hell, make Brockman sit on Udoka's shoulders. Anything.

Please.......

 

[nebs]

You sir, are 100% correct. Any basketball teams anchor is their front line. We sink as they suck.

Bricklayer has said it for years now. WE NEED A BIG WHO REBOUNDS AND BLOCKS SHOTS. Someone to clog the lane and swat at the ball. A center who boxes out, instead of shoots ill-advised three pointers.

Shore up that front line Geoff! PF, C who cares. Hell, make Brockman sit on Udoka's shoulders. Anything.

Please.......

Is there a rule against that? Or making a team pyramid?

 

[AriesMar27]

thompson and hawes arent the players that we need starting if we are going to ever become a winning team.... but that causes a bit of a problem, who and how? none of us can answer that boviously because we arent the gm of the team.

though it is fun to talk about during the off season, its hard to deal with during the season... especially before the trade deadline. last time we talked about upgrading our roster we ended up with nocioni... im just saying....

i have no problem with thompson or hawes being traded in the right move, but there are a lot of issues with that. some of the players will be freeagents this summer...

 

[vistacruza_kings]

what about hilton, didnt he have a couple blocks today? i may be wrong

 

[Chupacabra]

Hilton Armstrong needs to be given a majority of the center minutes. He has the most defensive ability out of all of our centers.

 

[sactownfan]

thompson and hawes arent the players that we need starting if we are going to ever become a winning team.... but that causes a bit of a problem, who and how? none of us can answer that boviously because we arent the gm of the team.

i have no problem with thompson or hawes being traded in the right move, but there are a lot of issues with that. some of the players will be freeagents this summer...

I actually disagree about Thompson... I think he'd be a great starting PF if we had a legit shot blocking and rebounding center to pair up with him... the problem is were asking too much of Thompson right now... he was avg almost the same numbers as Al Horford most of this year and last... those are not bench players stats... JT did improve from last year and with another year could be a very solid player

 

[AriesMar27]

I actually disagree about Thompson... I think he'd be a great starting PF if we had a legit shot blocking and rebounding center to pair up with him... the problem is were asking too much of Thompson right now... he was avg almost the same numbers as Al Horford most of this year and last... those are not bench players stats... JT did improve from last year and with another year could be a very solid player

thompson would be a good roleplaying starter if he was a reliable shooter... he cant finish around the basket to save his life. robert horry wasnt a great starter but he was a reliable shooter. he didnt hurt his teams with stupid fouls or missed tip-ins... he'd probably still suck if he played on the magic next to dwight howard.

 

[DeMoN]

I actually disagree about Thompson... I think he'd be a great starting PF if we had a legit shot blocking and rebounding center to pair up with him... the problem is were asking too much of Thompson right now... he was avg almost the same numbers as Al Horford most of this year and last... those are not bench players stats... JT did improve from last year and with another year could be a very solid player

I completely agree with you, I'm a huge JT fan, and i wont put all the blame on him. He's extremely emotional, as we all now. And the early season success might have been a curse on him. He probably realizes that we started losing alot once he got in a slump, and hes crumbling under the pressure. We need to get a center, now. I would love someone like Chris Anderson, i believe he would be a perfect fit for our team.

 

[AriesMar27]

i doubt that birdman would be the difference maker on this team. we would need a star center next to thompson in order for him to be effective.

 

[DeMoN]

i doubt that birdman would be the difference maker on this team. we would need a star center next to thompson in order for him to be effective.

He's not a star, but he's really effective on defense, and hustles alot. We don't need a superstar next to JT. Just one that can play D. Anderson isn't that bad on offense either.

 

[AriesMar27]

He's not a star, but he's really effective on defense, and hustles alot. We don't need a superstar next to JT. Just one that can play D. Anderson isn't that bad on offense either.

i like anderson, always have... but if he were starting on our team instead of hawes i dont see how thompson would play any better... birdman is a energy guy, he should come off the bench like he is doing now in denver. he'd be the player that i would want to bring in off the bench when thompson gets into foul trouble. that would be awesome...

 

[M_Barragan]

I agree with Aries..... JT does not have the touch to be serviceable at starting PF.

 

[Gabriel]

According to what's been said lately, Al Jefferson would fit in perfectly with the Kings. Sounds like he is almost exactly what we need.

 

[Asaf]

According to what's been said lately, Al Jefferson would fit in perfectly with the Kings. Sounds like he is almost exactly what we need.

Uhhh, I don't know. We need a big, but we do fine on offense even with what he have. Our main problem is interior defense, and Al Jefferson will not solve that problem (neither will Chris Bosh, for that matter). We don't just need good players. We need players that will fit our needs. Kevin Martin is a great player, but right now he is not even close to fitting the teams needs, in my opinion. Al Jefferson is also a very good player, but I really don't think that he is the solution to our problems.

 

[BMiller52]

Uhhh, I don't know. We need a big, but we do fine on offense even with what he have. Our main problem is interior defense, and Al Jefferson will not solve that problem (neither will Chris Bosh, for that matter). We don't just need good players. We need players that will fit our needs. Kevin Martin is a great player, but right now he is not even close to fitting the teams needs, in my opinion. Al Jefferson is also a very good player, but I really don't think that he is the solution to our problems.

Atleast Al Jeff would grab some boards and block some shots.

Also, seems to me that Brockman is the only frontline player we have that plays defense. Diaw was killing us for a little while and then we put Brock on him and he was pretty much shut down. JT's D is overrated IMO and that's coming from a Jason Thompson fan. His defense has gone down with his confidence.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

As an ardent Martin trade supporter, I don't think you understand what angle some of us are coming from.

First of all, I do NOT believe we are a better team without Kevin Martin.

However, I think many people weigh a player's trade potential with how well they are able to contribute to the team. It is a normal thing to do.

Let me make a point that agrees with your argument. I 100% AGREE that we NEED a center who can rebound, block shots, be a beast in the paint, etc.

I think most can agree THIS is our biggest problem.

So, HOW do we land a quality starting center? Do we trade Tyreke? Hell no. Do we trade Casspi? I would be VERY disappointed. Hawes? Beno? JT? No. No. No. And if we packaged them together for essentially one player, we would lose a LOT on our roster, as well as that scenario being very improbable.

So back to the point, WHO on our roster is valuable enough to allow this new starting center to fall from the sky?? Ah yes, KEVIN MARTIN.

THIS is why it has been discussed so much. Oh plus the fact that it has been discussed a lot outside of these boards.

 

[sactownfan]

As an ardent Martin trade supporter, I don't think you understand what angle some of us are coming from.

First of all, I do NOT believe we are a better team without Kevin Martin.

However, I think many people weigh a player's trade potential with how well they are able to contribute to the team. It is a normal thing to do.

Let me make a point that agrees with your argument. I 100% AGREE that we NEED a center who can rebound, block shots, be a beast in the paint, etc.

I think most can agree THIS is our biggest problem.

So, HOW do we land a quality starting center? Do we trade Tyreke? Hell no. Do we trade Casspi? I would be VERY disappointed. Hawes? Beno? JT? No. No. No. And if we packaged them together for essentially one player, we would lose a LOT on our roster, as well as that scenario being very improbable.

So back to the point, WHO on our roster is valuable enough to allow this new starting center to fall from the sky?? Ah yes, KEVIN MARTIN.

THIS is why it has been discussed so much. Oh plus the fact that it has been discussed a lot outside of these boards.

all signs indicate that Sam Dalembert can be had for just Kenny Thomas and May... all they want is to unload his contract... the 76'ers are terrible and wanna free up cap... good news for us is that although Sam D. isn't the end all to our center search he'll be a trade asset next year and is only on the books for 1yr after this...

 

[BMiller52]

all signs indicate that Sam Dalembert can be had for just Kenny Thomas and May... all they want is to unload his contract... the 76'ers are terrible and wanna free up cap... good news for us is that although Sam D. isn't the end all to our center search he'll be a trade asset next year and is only on the books for 1yr after this...

Sammy for K9? I'd do it.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

all signs indicate that Sam Dalembert can be had for just Kenny Thomas and May... all they want is to unload his contract... the 76'ers are terrible and wanna free up cap... good news for us is that although Sam D. isn't the end all to our center search he'll be a trade asset next year and is only on the books for 1yr after this...

Is Dalembert really deserving of the title 'quality starting center'?

Plus, his hefty contract is a liability, especially in this tough economy.

 

[Chupacabra]

Is Dalembert really deserving of the title 'quality starting center'?

Plus, his hefty contract is a liability, especially in this tough economy.

In todays NBA yes, Dalembert is a starting quality center. Most importantly, he perfectly addresses our teams needs. His contract only has another season and a half left on it. His contract is FAR from a liability.

 

[bloom]

yea hawes is a POS, but he is only 21, and as jerry always says "you have to be patient with big people and pg's"

You know, I don’t mind that people don’t like some of our players, but I have a problem with that part of your statement. Do you have to resort to referring to the guy like that? So the guy doesn’t play like some/most/all/whatever fans want him to play and yes he does have to get stronger and it will take time – or some people think he’ll never change. Attack his game but I don't get the choice of words for him. Maybe I’m reading too far into that part.

Anyway, back to the topic.

1st: I think we need a real big man’s coach. We need a guy who can work with the guys in a more dominant way.

2nd: You’re blaming Spencer for everything but I do have to give part of that blame to Coach W. for Spencer’s game. I’m sure the coaching staff does want Spencer to rebound, play in the paint and be more defensive, but it also doesn’t help to have the guy all the way out on the 3-point line. They give a lot more responsibility to Jason when it comes to going inside. A lot more plays seem to have him involved rather than also giving Spencer some responsibility/plays. Now I’m not giving Spencer a free pass because I think he’s got a lot to do – get much stronger and work inside much more than what he’s going/not be afraid to battle with some of the big men without always playing away from the basket. But how do we expect Hawes to be playing on the inside when – it seems – that the coach wants him to be so far from the basket?

3rd: You’re right, we really need another big man. 3-bigs is a good rotation. And I’m not knocking on Brockman cause I really like the dude. We’ve been talking about it long enough, I wonder what Petrie is going to do – either wait for free agency, see if we can get somebody at trade deadline, or work through the draft. People always want a quick fix and sometimes it just takes time. And the player we bring in should mesh with the rest of the guys. I think people forget about the chemistry of the team/players.

 

[VF21]

You know, I don’t mind that people don’t like some of our players, but I have a problem with that part of your statement. Do you have to resort to referring to the guy like that? So the guy doesn’t play like some/most/all/whatever fans want him to play and yes he does have to get stronger and it will take time – or some people think he’ll never change. Attack his game but I don't get the choice of words for him. Maybe I’m reading too far into that part.

Bravo.

My personal opinion is that sometimes those who are throwing those names around would be the ones least likely to ever be able to accomplish anything on a basketball court.

I know several members of this board who have played hoops or other sports in their lives, and I cannot recall any of them actually resorting to derogatory name-calling when referencing a player. Criticize their game? Oh, hell yes. But name-calling? Just lessens my opinion of the poster and the post.

/end rant

 

[ZZ-TOP]

Let me get this.

Some of you actually think that Dalembert can be a starting C for a team that would like to go all the way?

Interesting.

 

[Oprostaj]

Eh... I think people believe that Dalembert would be an upgrade over what we have. Remeber, offense isn't our problem, it's D and protecting the paint. Dalembert has shown over the course of his career that he is capable of doing that. He's also capable of sucking royally but hey... we're used to our C's doing that nowadays.

 

[casspion]

Patience. I am as annoyed as the next fan of Hawes softness.He drives me nuts.

However he is only 21. Sure he has been in the league for some time but you need to wait at least 2 more years before writing him off (unless you can get someone who is as good as your projection for the version of Spencer that pans out).

When Bargnani joined the Raptors he was Spencer's age. the Toronto fans called him Banana and Bustnani for 2 seasons." Why didn't we take B-Roy? Why didn't we take Aldridge - who cares about him and CB being overlapping pieces?"

Well you know what? Bargs was the right number one pick for Toronto.
And all the little upgrades he did to his game , and some major ones in this off season are paying off.

Now Spencer will never have Bargs shooting touch and guard skills (there is a reason after all why andrea was 1st overall pick), but it comes down to Spence's commitment to improving. You need to take a look at his upper body 2 years down the road and if by then there is no improvement you can say, well his a career back up guy. The dude dropped 30 points at staples on the lakers. Sure it is on jumpers, but you got something to work with. Need to get stronger and play in the paint. everything that look horrific now can look really good with added strength and some pretty basic low post moves that can be taught.

The fact there are no quality bigs in practice for Spencer and JT is hurting their development big time. Bosh gave Andrea **** for being soft in his rookie season. Both him and Nasterovich really took care of Bargs in the early going. Who is doing that for Spencer? Brockman is not going to yell at him, heck that's his buddy. KT? Not a factor. JT? Too many problems of his own to worry about anything or anyone else.

 

[drboiffard]

Bravo.

My personal opinion is that sometimes those who are throwing those names around would be the ones least likely to ever be able to accomplish anything on a basketball court.

I know several members of this board who have played hoops or other sports in their lives, and I cannot recall any of them actually resorting to derogatory name-calling when referencing a player. Criticize their game? Oh, hell yes. But name-calling? Just lessens my opinion of the poster and the post.

/end rant

I agree. I have never been aware of this before, but it seems it's very common lately. It seems the natural dark reverse of the starsystem, and as long as superstars are loved with passions, the players who don't get there have to get hated. Or maybe it's the fact that everyone is playing those damn fantasy games and treat players as if they were pokemons, I don't know.

But it's annoying. I can understand insulting players from the Lakers, but I don't understand at all insulting a player from the team you're supporting.

 

[kupman]

its not Kevin... guys hes not close to 100%!... hes played 7 games all year! GIVE THE GUY A BREAK!!!! so many threads about trading him or not trading him... if he works with Evans or if he doesn't... yeah we've lost 2 games since Kevin's been back... SO WHAT!!! we were already losing a TON of games without him!!!! its gonna take awhile before we have the answer to if this team is better off without him or not... since Kevin wasn't here for our teams collapse.. its not Kevins fault!

Your right, it's not Kmarts fault. However, we are really no better with him either and he is hurt much of the time. Therefore, I think using Kmart in a trade to secure a strong big man is a great idea.