Why Tyreke MUST be the point guard (With Pictures)

[jcwkings]

Oh possibly, but if we just want a 3pt gunning PG we've got a guy on the bench who averaged 19.7ppg three years ago and lef the league in 3pt bombs.

Lillard isn't just a 3 pts gunner. His ability to get into the lane is near the level of Rose or Westbrook from what i have seen. Combine that with his great shooting stroke and you got a potential allstar right there. maybe more...

 

[Padrino]

Your fascination with the word "shooting" in shooting guard is amusing, and not terribly shared by the better teams and coaches in the league. Ace shooters like Ronnie Brewer, Thabo Sefalosha, Andre Igoudala, and Tony Allen routinely decorate the backcourts of playoff teams, but oh no, Reke can't shoot hence he can't be our shooting guard!

Shooting guard is an irrelevant term. At least 1 of your 1/2/3 guys needs to be able to shoot. And preferably 2. Who those guys are is not terribly significant, any high school coach can adjust the offense to get the shooters into their spots, whoever they are, and the creative players the ball to set up those shooters. It becomes even less significant when you have an all court center who attacks facing up at least as well with his back to the basket. And less still when your non-shooter is an amazing driver abel to create for himself and draw attention aay from everybody else.

this is correct. there's a reason "shooting guard" in the nba is so often alternatively referred to as "two-guard" or "off-guard." it is not necessarily the duty of the second guard to shoot from outside. doug christie was a non-shooting two, for example. but he owned his role as a lockdown wing defender and an effective passer, and at that time the kings got the majority of their outside shooting from the one and three positions. it truly doesn't matter where you get it, as long as you get it from somewhere. tyreke's talent is obvious, as are his weaknesses, so it was always gonna be up to the kings' front office to bring shooters into the fold who could shore up 'reke's lack of ability from outside. thornton, brooks, and, to a lesser degree, thomas are all skilled outside shooters (streaky though they may be), and they all deserve minutes. the problem is that, unless we wanna see more of keith smart's three-guard lineups, not more than one of them should consistently see the court at the same time with tyreke. you'd ideally like to get some three-point shooting from your SF in this scenario, but james johnson is not that player. but he's the one we've got, for the moment, so the kings will have to make do. all of that said, tyreke doesn't need to play PG for the kings anymore, because, between thornton, brooks, and thomas, the kings now have enough ballhandlers to get the job done. it doesn't matter who plays point on this team, because just about every one of the kings guards can effectively initiate the offense, provided they don't just initiate offense for themselves. its going to take discipline for the kings offense to click on a consistent basis, and such discipline will be hard to come by with as many mismatched pieces as the kings are dealing with. hence the importance of their recent defensive efforts, which have kept them in games they've had no business staying competitive in, offensively speaking...

 

[SacTownKid]

Your fascination with the word "shooting" in shooting guard is amusing, and not terribly shared by the better teams and coaches in the league. Ace shooters like Ronnie Brewer, Thabo Sefalosha, Andre Igoudala, and Tony Allen routinely decorate the backcourts of playoff teams, but oh no, Reke can't shoot hence he can't be our shooting guard!

Shooting guard is an irrelevant term. At least 1 of your 1/2/3 guys needs to be able to shoot. And preferably 2. Who those guys are is not terribly significant, any high school coach can adjust the offense to get the shooters into their spots, whoever they are, and the creative players the ball to set up those shooters. It becomes even less significant when you have an all court center who attacks facing up at least as well with his back to the basket. And less still when your non-shooter is an amazing driver abel to create for himself and draw attention aay from everybody else.

Never said players like that can't play in the league, and don't even really disgree with what you're saying but circumstance is everything when arguing any point in relation to this topic. Two of the players you mentioned as examples who survive at SG are specialist role players that have career averages of 19 and 22 mpg. They also don't typically handle the ball on their team in the same way or fashion Tyreke does, neither is close to a top option for their team, and they also seem to find a way to play next to high volume shooters who are considered some of the best in the league. Coincidence? I think not. Not to mention that the Thunder don't have a Demarcus Cousins needing space down low or driving lanes. If they did, I bet you see a bit of change in their lineup or ideology, or the way defenses look against them.

Put Tyreke next to Kevin Durant and it might be a different story but if Tyrekes role on this team is to be based off of players like Tony Allen or Thabo Sefolosha, well, he better come cheap when it's time to re-up. So far this season, much like seasons past, Tyreke has looked much better when handling the ball and using the skills that got him into the NBA. He's gotten better at off the ball movement and that will be crucial if they are deadset on having another PG out there, but other changes will need to be made for this to go anywhere or if they are wanting space inside for their big man which to me, should be the ultimate concern moving forward.

Tyreke could play SG, PG, PF, C or whatever you want to call it on a team equipped to deal with his shortcomings, but even if adjustments are made, him becoming Tony Allen or Thabo Sefolosha is probably a tad bit below his talent level. Might be better off on a team willing to put in pieces around him and clear out the middle for him. This is also why the argument and the majority of players you could bring up as examples of those "can't shoot" just don't apply to Tyreke, they are role players and when you are a SG that can't shoot, that's typically where you stay. I personally think some of the answers are here, but they rely on a coach being able to put in the right system and rotation. After Smarts comments about going 12 deep I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[SacTownKid]

this is correct. there's a reason "shooting guard" in the nba is so often alternatively referred to as "two-guard" or "off-guard." it is not necessarily the duty of the second guard to shoot from outside. doug christie was a non-shooting two, for example. but he owned his role as a lockdown wing defender and an effective passer, and at that time the kings got the majority of their outside shooting from the one and three positions. it truly doesn't matter where you get it, as long as you get it from somewhere. tyreke's talent is obvious, as are his weaknesses, so it was always gonna be up to the kings' front office to bring shooters into the fold who could shore up 'reke's lack of ability from outside. thornton, brooks, and, to a lesser degree, thomas are all skilled outside shooters (streaky though they may be), and they all deserve minutes. the problem is that, unless we wanna see more of keith smart's three-guard lineups, not more than one of them should consistently see the court at the same time with tyreke. you'd ideally like to get some three-point shooting from your SF in this scenario, but james johnson is not that player. but he's the one we've got, for the moment, so the kings will have to make do. all of that said, tyreke doesn't need to play PG for the kings anymore, because, between thornton, brooks, and thomas, the kings now have enough ballhandlers to get the job done. it doesn't matter who plays point on this team, because just about every one of the kings guards can effectively initiate the offense, provided they don't just initiate offense for themselves. its going to take discipline for the kings offense to click on a consistent basis, and such discipline will be hard to come by with as many mismatched pieces as the kings are dealing with. hence the importance of their recent defensive efforts, which have kept them in games they've had no business staying competitive in, offensively speaking...

Off guard is even better for the the sake of this discussion. In a lot of sets Doug Christie was the PG. Also they played in a system that allowed for the fudging of roles, a system I think this team could do well in returning to. It's a major reason why I think the Triangle makes some sense for this team. You can make up for lack of floor spreading with off the ball movement, but this team has a coach who is in love with pure pick and roll basketball. And going back to what I said above, you're comparing a teams top 2 option to another role player. Role players that can't shoot and average 10 shots or under a game and almost nothing in isolation is almost entirely irrelevant unless the idea is to turn Tyreke into more of a specialist role player while putting him next to better shooters and/or changing the identity of this team as a whole. I really hope Smart sticks to the Triangle idea, if he knows how to teach it that is.

 

[Section 101]

Watch some Blazers games. He's the real deal as a PG. He's not a gunner his shots are in the flow of the offense. 21-4-9 through 3 games is pretty decent.

Just read that the only other rookie to have at least 20 points and 7 assist for their first 3 games was the Big O.

 

[Padrino]

Off guard is even better for the the sake of this discussion. In a lot of sets Doug Christie was the PG. Also they played in a system that allowed for the fudging of roles, a system I think this team could do well in returning to. It's a major reason why I think the Triangle makes some sense for this team. You can make up for lack of floor spreading with off the ball movement, but this team has a coach who is in love with pure pick and roll basketball. And going back to what I said above, you're comparing a teams top 2 option to another role player. Role players that can't shoot and average 10 shots or under a game and almost nothing in isolation is almost entirely irrelevant unless the idea is to turn Tyreke into more of a specialist role player while putting him next to better shooters and/or changing the identity of this team as a whole. I really hope Smart sticks to the Triangle idea, if he knows how to teach it that is.

my point in comparing doug christie and tyreke evans stopped at the term "shooting guard," just so we're clear. i used the comparison because it was familiar to kings fans, and because christie is an excellent example of an effective SG who did not need to shoot. he had a role, and it was understood. likewise, tyreke should have a role, and it should be understood. of course, it is going to be a much bigger role than that of a player like doug christie, but its still a role, nonetheless...

here's a much more useful and a much more bandied-about comparison: dwayne wade is another SG who does not need to shoot. when wade shoots from three, its often ugly. when he pulls up at midrange, he's much more consistent. tyreke is not consistent from midrange, but he also does not pull up to shoot the 10-12 foot jump shot very often. that's just immaturity, and hopefully, with time and a little massaging from this coaching staff or another, he'll add that to his arsenal, because it truly is all he needs to become a powerhouse off-guard in the nba. the defense is packing the paint when he drives to the hoop? pull up for an open jumper in the paint while the defenders backpedal. maybe he'll never get there, and instead become an unfortunate case study in failed initiative, but a smart coach would help him become a more complete player for the good of the team...

all of that said, there are a variety of systems that could help to open up the court for both tyreke evans and demarcus cousins. the triangle could find success here eventually. a modified version of the kings' old princeton style offense could work, as well. both systems aren't that far apart in terms of their disciplined floor spacing techniques. the kings' spacing is usually horrible, and it results in a crowded paint for both demarcus and tyreke, and it doesn't matter if we're calling evans a PG or a SG or a SF. he can't do what he does best when there's no room for him to operate. a well-rehearsed set of pick and rolls between evans and cousins would also help open the game up for each of the kings best players. anything but the disorganized confusion the kings often experience on the offensive side of the ball. if the team wide discipline improves on offense, evans and cousins will improve by way of osmosis, because right now, their jobs are made harder by a gameplan that isn't maximizing their talents or giving them much room to breathe...

 

[beb0p]

The fact is that learning the PG spot is a very difficult task, many players have failed, good ones too (like OJ Mayo, Jalen Rose, etc). You're asking a player who has been doing the same thing his entire life to now suddenly change his habit. No amount of coaching, film watching, practicing is going to break a player's habit overnight, it takes years to do that. If a guy's tendency is to shoot, he's going to shoot when he's under pressure, that's how human being works!

I think it's important to reflect on one Chancey Billups, on how he overcame the odds and finally figured out the PG position... towards the end of his fifth year in the league!

The Disposable Superstar

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=090511/billups

Chauncey tells his longtime girlfriend, Piper Riley, that he senses Pitino doesn't like him, and, the truth is, Pitino doesn't respect Chauncey's point guard skills. It's not Chauncey's fault he had to shoot first at CU, but when Pitino sees Chauncey's indecisiveness running the offense, he shops him instead of bearing with him. Then, 51 games into his rookie season, averaging 11.1 points and 4.3 assists, Chauncey is traded to Toronto for Kenny Anderson.

"I was a scoring point guard," Chauncey says. "And if you recall, at that time a scoring point guard wasn't all that popular. It was like a running quarterback."

He goes to Toronto and it hits him: "I don't know when to score and when not to." He finds it difficult, as a point guard, to tell grown men what to do, and he loses his swagger. His image, meanwhile, is in the tank. He is the first first-round pick to be traded as a rookie since Rick Robey in 1978-79, and the labeling starts: He's a bust. He's a shooting guard in a point guard's body. He's selfish.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=090511/billups

KG, his old buddy from the 1995 McDonald's All-American high school game, is recruiting Chauncey, relentlessly. He wants Chauncey to sign in Minnesota, and to entice him, he invites him to his Minneapolis home. On the wall in the cellar is a poster. It reads: The Billups Suite.

After Chauncey signs, KG introduces him around the locker room. "This is my point guard, Terrell Brandon," KG says, "and this is Pops -- Sam Mitchell."

At first, Brandon and Mitchell don't say much. They have seen Chauncey bounce from team to team, have seen his erratic shot selection. They are civil, but have no sense he can fit into their team-first philosophy. But, as the days and practices go by, Chauncey begins tugging on their sleeves, asking questions. At training camp dinners, he makes sure to sit next to Brandon, an All-Star and past winner of the NBA's Sportsmanship Award. "He's always on my right side," Brandon says. "He's moving guys out of the way so he can sit right next to me."

Chauncey even moves into the locker next to Brandon. He asks him how he knows when to shoot and when to share, and Brandon tells him to simply move the ball. He says his job as a point guard is to make teammates blissful, to get KG 20 shots a game and Wally Szczerbiak 15, to have no ego. He teaches Chauncey how to watch film, how to spend the first half reading how the defense is playing the pick-and-roll … and how to adjust in the second half. He tells him that if KG doesn't have double-figure points by mid-second quarter to start feeding him the rock. He tells him if KG still can't score, then you start scoring. He tells him to know everyone's foul situation -- on both teams -- to know who's already been hit with a technical foul, who's ripe to lose his cool.

"And another thing, you and I can't have more than two turnovers a game."

"Two? Just two?" Chauncey says, laughing.

"Actually, two is too many," Brandon says, not laughing.

Something clicks. Chauncey tells Piper, whom he has just married, to buy him suits and ties. Then, in February, Brandon suffers a season-ending injury. Finally, Chauncey's a starting NBA point guard. And all he does is take Minnesota to the playoffs. "The light just went on for him," Brandon says. "You could see the elevation. He got taller, bigger, wider. Confidence makes you larger, man. It makes you a superstar."

One thing that I've been peeved about is that the Kings never got Tyreke a mentor, they just threw him out there and say, "Here's the ball, run the team." That's just not a recipe for success. For Billups, he basically had to change his entire mindset, literally the way he thinks about the game, before he became a real PG - this after years of learning and apprenticeship (especially from Terrell Brandon) in order for him to get there. I never get the feeling that Reke got the same quality of resources for his transformation. And now, it looks like the whole organization has abandoned the Reke as PG experiment, after only 2+ seasons.

 

[Quix]

unrelated, but thanks for teaching me the word 'niggles' OP

 

[Sac.1989]

beb0p great read and its so relative to our situation. Our great young talent is being wasted through our lack of systems. Half the issue here with REke is the lack of system that utilises his skills.

Its such a badly run business. Yet we all have so much emotionally invested in it and half the time we skim over these grassroot issues which really mean so much here.

 

[rexb_kings]

beb0p great read and its so relative to our situation. Our great young talent is being wasted through our lack of systems. Half the issue here with REke is the lack of system that utilises his skills.

You nailed it! Run a system that utilizes the strengths and talents of your team! Tyreke at point would be great, just have him bring down the ball faster. My observation is when he has the ball he casually walks up lazily then starts the offense at about 7 seconds left on the shot clock. Once he figures out where his team mates are most of the time he'll be very good. Rondo can't shoot when he entered the league but he pushed the ball and knew where the big-3 were on each play.

In talking about the system, case in point are the Lakers who are using the Princeton which is laughable, they have the best PNR players in Nash and Dwight with Gasol on top and Kobe on the wing..just stupid coaching. Princeton was designed for average players to become better players that's why the Kings of 2000 fluorished with it and ofcourse Divac and CWebb are great passing big men. Also the 90's Bulls with Jordan, had they employed a different system not utilizing the Triangle offense i doubt they'd be very good.

 

[rexb_kings]

these super easy play and spread the floor.

[video]http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2012/11/06/20121106-gt-knicks-start-shooting.nba[/video]