The Ringer: Two Rookie Big Men Walk Onto an NBA Court. One Plays Center. The Other Plays SG.

L

Livinthedream

All-Star
"From the moment Bagley became a King, playing small forward was always something that could happen, in the way that Andre Drummond could develop an outside shot."

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/10/2/17928896/mo-bamba-marvin-bagley-debut

Begs the question, How should the Kings use him? Based on the preseason game against Phoenix, he's going to play on the perimeter/wing and it will take time to develop.
 
I think he should be used as a 5 primarily and run the pick and roll with Fox all day long. His defense in the paint is ok but he gets lost outside the paint and on the perimeter all the time. He basically has no perimeter offensive skills to speak of so I don't understand the point in putting him in a position he's almost guaranteed to fail at.
 
Just have a plan and a legit means to accomplish the goal. That's all I ask. If Bagley is your future SF, then first let him know that, because I'm not sure he does. Then, set him up to succeed.
 
Livinthedream said:
Just have a plan and a legit means to accomplish the goal. That's all I ask. If Bagley is your future SF, then first let him know that, because I'm not sure he does. Then, set him up to succeed.
Click to expand...

There’s literally no such thing as Bagley at SF for more than 2 minuets a game succeeding
 
Its a process but the best way to set a rookie back is to mess with their confidence and jerk them around from position to position. Bagleys first meaningful minutes shouldnt have been as a quasi SF in my mind but it is what it is
 
I still can't believe Mo Bamba fell so far. The magic needed a gift like that anyways.


I just thought we'd have Mo slot in at the C position and then Willie and Skal and Harry could work on their games at the 4 position... Instead we've got this...
 
"From the moment Bagley became a King, playing small forward was always something that could happen, in the way that Andre Drummond could develop an outside shot. Joerger knows he’ll have to get creative; the extremely frontcourt-heavy roster also includes Nemanja Bjelica, Kosta Koufos, and Zach Randolph."

There was a SF in the top 5 draft that we could've picked so we wouldn't have to deal with "getting creative with too many big men". But I digress.
 
Double-K said:
"From the moment Bagley became a King, playing small forward was always something that could happen, in the way that Andre Drummond could develop an outside shot. Joerger knows he’ll have to get creative; the extremely frontcourt-heavy roster also includes Nemanja Bjelica, Kosta Koufos, and Zach Randolph."

There was a SF in the top 5 draft that we could've picked so we wouldn't have to deal with "getting creative with too many big men". But I digress.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from, but think this issue has already been debated to death. We need to move forward with the pieces we have, and see how best to use them.
 
kingsfan101 said:
I understand where you are coming from, but think this issue has already been debated to death. We need to move forward with the pieces we have, and see how best to use them.
Click to expand...
You're right. I couldn't help at the time. I thought better now... haha

Let's see how Joerger manages this coming season. Otherwise, I have a feeling a lot of them will be gone if this doesn't pan out.
 
Bagley is too passive, he needs to grow confidence in his offensive ability, if it's even there. As much as people don't want to hear it, patience is key here, we just don't know how he will pan out based on his first or second year IMO.
 
Double-K said:
You're right. I couldn't help at the time. I thought better now... haha

Let's see how Joerger manages this coming season. Otherwise, I have a feeling a lot of them will be gone if this doesn't pan out.
Click to expand...
I know it's only been one preseason game, so not trying to rush to judgement, but I'm not encouraged by the continued running of the high post offense. If they truly want to run at a faster pace, I'm not sure that offense is going to get it done (at least until their young bigs significantly mature with respect to decision making and instincts in running those sets).

I'm really conflicted by Joerger. On the one hand, I think he's probably the best coach we've had since Adelman (not saying a whole lot....but he does seem to be a highly respected coach in coaching circles). On the other hand, I don't see a lot of innovation, or even simplicity, in his offensive sets that play to his team's strengths. Playing with "speed" has to mean more than running up the court fast and then grinding to a halt while our bigs take a handoff at the top of the key.
 
kingsboi said:
Bagley is too passive, he needs to grow confidence in his offensive ability, if it's even there. As much as people don't want to hear it, patience is key here, we just don't know how he will pan out based on his first or second year IMO.
Click to expand...

Yeah, people coming out here with their Bagley is T-Rob arguments. are ignoring three super important facts that separate the two.
1. Bagley is younger with way more room to improve coming into the league than T-Rob, who was essentially booked as a low ceiling/high floor guy who could come onto your roster and immediately be your power forward. Bagley, for all of his college stats and all that, was always looked at in terms of the player he would eventually be going forward. (In other words, Thomas Robinson was a fully written book whereas Bagley is the plot outline to a Nobel Prize novel and a stack of the best blank paper money can buy).
2. Bagley isn't undersized. T-Rob was a generously listed 6'9" while Bagley is a full 6'11" plus hair.
3. Bagley has shown more defensive effort in a single game of preseason game action than T-Rob did in his entire sad tenure as an NBA player.
 
A previous obsession with size somehow morphed into Thomas Robinson being undersized, which is the least of his problems. He couldn't shoot or defend.

Bagley might have an inch on Trob, which he probably gives away in wingspan. Trob was nearly 6-9 without shoes, a legit nba 6-10. Bagley refused to get measured, and is known for his average wingspan.
 
TaxMan said:
I know it's only been one preseason game, so not trying to rush to judgement, but I'm not encouraged by the continued running of the high post offense. If they truly want to run at a faster pace, I'm not sure that offense is going to get it done (at least until their young bigs significantly mature with respect to decision making and instincts in running those sets).

I'm really conflicted by Joerger. On the one hand, I think he's probably the best coach we've had since Adelman (not saying a whole lot....but he does seem to be a highly respected coach in coaching circles). On the other hand, I don't see a lot of innovation, or even simplicity, in his offensive sets that play to his team's strengths. Playing with "speed" has to mean more than running up the court fast and then grinding to a halt while our bigs take a handoff at the top of the key.
Click to expand...
You are pretty much speaking for me here. One pre-season game is only enough for fools to reach conclusions about how the season is going to pan out. But there is something disconcerting about Joerger's "run fast and grind to a halt offense." Like the guy is stuck in a loop.
 
DesertFox said:
A previous obsession with size somehow morphed into Thomas Robinson being undersized, which is the least of his problems. He couldn't shoot or defend.

Bagley might have an inch on Trob, which he probably gives away in wingspan. Trob was nearly 6-9 without shoes, a legit nba 6-10. Bagley refused to get measured, and is known for his average wingspan.
Click to expand...
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.kans...g-12/university-of-kansas/article1089968.html

TRob wasnt 6-10, isnt 6-10 and has never been 6-10. Not to mention he came out as a Junior, foregoing his senior year. There is no real comparison between Bagley 3 and Robinson.
 
jcassio said:
You are pretty much speaking for me here. One pre-season game is only enough for fools to reach conclusions about how the season is going to pan out. But there is something disconcerting about Joerger's "run fast and grind to a halt offense." Like the guy is stuck in a loop.
Click to expand...
I am VERY concerned that Joerger seems to still think he has Marc Gasol on his team. He might have a similar player in Giles but I really hope he changes his offense ASAP. It is getting to the point of serious stubborness.
 
Kangztillidie said:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.kans...g-12/university-of-kansas/article1089968.html

TRob wasnt 6-10, isnt 6-10 and has never been 6-10. Not to mention he came out as a Junior, foregoing his senior year. There is no real comparison between Bagley 3 and Robinson.
Click to expand...

You can quote an opinion article or the actual combine measurement, which had him at 6-8.75, 6-10.5 in shoes.
Bagley's age and performance against top college competition provides some hope. But until he develops a shot or second hand, he is an energy player with average size.
 
DesertFox said:
You can quote an opinion article or the actual combine measurement, which had him at 6-8.75, 6-10.5 in shoes.
Bagley's age and performance against top college competition provides some hope. But until he develops a shot or second hand, he is an energy player with average size.
Click to expand...
Actually the point is he was physically compared to Anthony Davis who is listed as the same height and nobody would mistake the 2. I met TRob. I thought he was 6'8" at most
 
Bagley will be just fine. The issue is FOMO (fear of missing out) on a certain player. I for one hope Doncic turns out to be all hype. I know its not popular to "root" against anyone not in a lakers jersey, but ill sure feel a lot better if vlade and kings pull a clear win with Bagley over Doncic....but my fear with missed out here is at a very high level. Will be hard to "be patient a few YEARS" while we see how tjings pan out
 
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