Since Mike Malone firing, the Kings lack spirit, identity

[Spike]

How long can a team continue to play without spirit and lacking identity? I think they are beginning to come around. The players and Corbin are beginning to talk like a normal bunch.

How long does it take to grieve?

You're right, though, that they're coming around, about how you'd expect:

http://sacb.ee/2cxh

“We’ve just got to accept it,” Collison said. “Our job is to go out there and play, regardless of who we’re playing with out there on the court. Coach has a certain lineup out there, and that’s none of our business. That’s coach just trying to coach the team, so we’ve just got to play the best way we can."

 

[funkykingston]

How long does it take to grieve?

You're right, though, that they're coming around, about how you'd expect:

http://sacb.ee/2cxh

“We’ve just got to accept it,” Collison said. “Our job is to go out there and play, regardless of who we’re playing with out there on the court. Coach has a certain lineup out there, and that’s none of our business. That’s coach just trying to coach the team, so we’ve just got to play the best way we can."

I like that DC is a pro but that sounds pretty far from a ringing endorsement for Corbin. And it sure sounds like Collison is another player upset by Malone's firing.

Two and a half weeks later and I still can't think of a legitimate basketball reason for that move.

 

[Spike]

I like that DC is a pro but that sounds pretty far from a ringing endorsement for Corbin. And it sure sounds like Collison is another player upset by Malone's firing.

Two and a half weeks later and I still can't think of a legitimate basketball reason for that move.

Yeah, I just can't find myself able to hold players accountable right now. They're hurting. It's clear. The players also seem to get that the FO is pulling the strings, which has to be tough.

Well except for DWill, but it's not exactly a ringing endorsement for his ability to understand what just happened.

They will scrap together, but it certainly won't look like it did earlier this season.

 

[Chubbs]

How long does it take to grieve?

You're right, though, that they're coming around, about how you'd expect:

http://sacb.ee/2cxh

“We’ve just got to accept it,” Collison said. “Our job is to go out there and play, regardless of who we’re playing with out there on the court. Coach has a certain lineup out there, and that’s none of our business. That’s coach just trying to coach the team, so we’ve just got to play the best way we can."

Yikes. Exactly what you want to hear from players.

 

[KingMilz]

Yikes. Exactly what you want to hear from players.

Sadly Darren Collison is the only guy atm that's backing up his talk by the way he plays, rest of the guys are saying one thing and doing something completely different on the court.

 

[funkykingston]

Sadly Darren Collison is the only guy atm that's backing up his talk by the way he plays, rest of the guys are saying one thing and doing something completely different on the court.

Just an honest question based on what I've read from you lately - do you believe the coach of a team has any impact on the level of play of his players?

 

[KingMilz]

Just an honest question based on what I've read from you lately - do you believe the coach of a team has any impact on the level of play of his players?

Off course it does but a change of coach should not change a players effort level imo. If your a true competitor your out there to win and your going to play hard at both ends right?

The level of play has dropped cause key players are not playing as hard it's that simple.

I was a supporter of Malone and he should have not been fired but you can't throw in the towel and go back to being garbage Sacramento just cause the coach has changed. At least honor Malone and perform the things he instilled into you as a player which made us a 5-1/9-6 team.

 

[Spike]

At least honor Malone and perform the things he instilled into you as a player which made us a 5-1/9-6 team.

Why?

At a simplistic level, many players were wondering (some still do) what they did to get Malone fired. Follow that with the GM stating it was style of play, well, then you won't want to play that way.

Compound that with a coach yelling "push it!", well, you learn real quick that they don't want defense anymore. You can only expend so much energy in so many directions. Throw in guys just getting to know each other, then getting lineups switched around, well, you get this.

You get Jason Thompson without a role. You get DMC games where he only takes 12 shots.
You get no offensive flow, because "Shots! Dunks! Now!"

It's all related. All of it. You can't just say, "Do what Malone taught", because he wasn't done teaching.

 

[KingMilz]

Why?

At a simplistic level, many players were wondering (some still do) what they did to get Malone fired. Follow that with the GM stating it was style of play, well, then you won't want to play that way.

Compound that with a coach yelling "push it!", well, you learn real quick that they don't want defense anymore. You can only expend so much energy in so many directions. Throw in guys just getting to know each other, then getting lineups switched around, well, you get this.

You get Jason Thompson without a role. You get DMC games where he only takes 12 shots.
You get no offensive flow, because "Shots! Dunks! Now!"

It's all related. All of it. You can't just say, "Do what Malone taught", because he wasn't done teaching.

So basically they learned nothing playing under Malone in 1 and quarter seasons? The problem with all these Kings team is they always looking for an excuse or a way out rather than fighting through tough times. It's easy to throw in the towel. Is anyone telling them not to play defense?

As far as the offense we never had offensive flow and DMC taking 12 shots is a result of Rudy Gay chucking (which lately has been as bad as it's ever been here), we really are not playing that much faster I think we are exaggerating what it comes to "pace". I rarely see Collison pushing it (unless it's a clear 2 on 1) the only unit that pushes it is the 2nd unit.

 

[funkykingston]

Off course it does but a change of coach should not change a players effort level imo. If your a true competitor your out there to win and your going to play hard at both ends right?

The level of play has dropped cause key players are not playing as hard it's that simple.

I was a supporter of Malone and he should have not been fired but you can't throw in the towel and go back to being garbage Sacramento just cause the coach has changed. At least honor Malone and perform the things he instilled into you as a player which made us a 5-1/9-6 team.

What made the Kings 5-1 and 9-6 was a commitment to defense and a belief in their identity as a team.

You see a lack of effort. I mainly see frustration and confusion from a group of guys adjusting to new roles and schemes.

And maybe that does translate to less than full effort sometimes. And honestly I think that's understandable.

If you're DMC, whose an emotional dude as we all know, and you go from getting your first real taste of success, stability, confidence and a coach you trust since entering the NBA and then all of that is stripped away throwing you back into uncertainty and losing then are you able to give your all? Even if you want to?

And of course they aren't playing defense like they did under Malone. Or offense for that matter. Malone was fired because the front office and ownership didn't like his style.

Obviously Corbin is changing schemes. And the result is losing basketball. There's a reason firing a coach mid season is a loser move.

 

[KingMilz]

What made the Kings 5-1 and 9-6 was a commitment to defense and a belief in their identity as a team.

You see a lack of effort. I mainly see frustration and confusion from a group of guys adjusting to new roles and schemes.

And maybe that does translate to less than full effort sometimes. And honestly I think that's understandable.

If you're DMC, whose an emotional dude as we all know, and you go from getting your first real taste of success, stability, confidence and a coach you trust since entering the NBA and then all of that is stripped away throwing you back into uncertainty and losing then are you able to give your all? Even if you want to?

Our franchise player for the first time in his NBA career was protecting the paint and other lesser players all seemed to step up on defense like Jason Thompson/Mclemore cause of it.

Were we a great defensive team? No..but we always played hard/good enough D to compete with the elite's now we are not giving enough effort to compete with the likes of Boston.

At some point we have to stop making excuses every years it's the coach, it's Isaiah Thomas chucking, it's the team might be moving it just always has to be something.

Every team has dealt with coaching changes they liked/didn't it's the NBA did the Grizzlies regress/quit when they replaced Hollins who was Mike Malone on steroids in terms of wins and his defense's? The Warriors players loved Mark Jackson and look at them. I understand the Corbin situation is a bit different but why can't they play with the same hunger for Ty (who was with Malone and the team while we were successful).

 

[VF21]

The PC world sucks. It just sucks. The frenzy to jump on the "you're a racist" bandwagon is worse than the clumsy remark that starts the whole thing in most cases.

I would generally agree wholeheartedly with you, but this is Peter Vecsey we're talking about.

 

[VF21]

Yeah, I just can't find myself able to hold players accountable right now. They're hurting. It's clear. The players also seem to get that the FO is pulling the strings, which has to be tough.

Well except for DWill, but it's not exactly a ringing endorsement for his ability to understand what just happened.

They will scrap together, but it certainly won't look like it did earlier this season.

That would be funny...if it wasn't sadly true.

 

[VF21]

Off course it does but a change of coach should not change a players effort level imo. If your a true competitor your out there to win and your going to play hard at both ends right?

The level of play has dropped cause key players are not playing as hard it's that simple.

I was a supporter of Malone and he should have not been fired but you can't throw in the towel and go back to being garbage Sacramento just cause the coach has changed. At least honor Malone and perform the things he instilled into you as a player which made us a 5-1/9-6 team.

You forget that the new coach may NOT be stressing the same things Malone did, and might - in fact - be discouraging them to do some of the things they were just beginning to do.

 

[KingMilz]

You forget that the new coach may NOT be stressing the same things Malone did, and might - in fact - be discouraging them to do some of the things they were just beginning to do.

Ty Corbin has been a half-court coach his whole career has he not? Didn't he have Al Jefferson/Derek Favors and Paul Milsap in Utah not exactly running teams

I honestly doubt he's discouraging them to play defense which is the problem, it's not that we are supposedly pushing the ball.

 

[VF21]

Ty Corbin has been a half-court coach his whole career has he not? Didn't he have Al Jefferson/Derek Favors and Paul Milsap in Utah not exactly running teams

I honestly doubt he's discouraging them to play defense which is the problem, it's not that we are supposedly pushing the ball.

So you honestly think Corbin hasn't been told what he is and isn't supposed to focus on? Please...

 

[funkykingston]

Every team has dealt with coaching changes they liked/didn't it's the NBA did the Grizzlies regress/quit when they replaced Hollins who was Mike Malone on steroids in terms of wins and his defense's? The Warriors players loved Mark Jackson and look at them. I understand the Corbin situation is a bit different but why can't they play with the same hunger for Ty (who was with Malone and the team while we were successful).

Profoundly different when you change coaches in the offseason vs a third of the way in. No offseason, training camp and preseason to install your system and get the team used to it.

Also profoundly different to change coaches on a playoff team with players who already know how to win.

The Warriors had a formula for success on the offensive and defensive end. Kerr came in during the offseason and just had to make tweaks, mainly about ball movement and lineups in order to get that team to a new level.

The Kings on the other hand haven't learned how to consistently win and this season when it FINALLY looked like they might take a big step forward the GM fired the coach and essentially said "you're doing it wrong".

Even IF Corbin wanted to keep Malone's defensive scheme, the fact is that the King's brass demanded a different "style" of offense. So what do you think the Kings players have spent the vast majority if their practice time on lately? Hard to keep up the same defensive effort if (1) you're trying to adapt to a new offense that so far isn't working well (2) not spending the necessary practice time on defense (3) upset about losing a coach you like and confused about the team's direction and (4) trying to push the pace against opponents who so far have benefitted from the change and have put up some of the best numbers if the year against the Kings.

But regardless whether or not any of us thinks the Kings should be playing better isn't really the issue anyway. The real question is whether anyone thinks firing Malone will improve the Kings this season. I don't. Which is why I still can't understand what D'Alessandro and company were thinking.

 

[Chubbs]

So basically they learned nothing playing under Malone in 1 and quarter seasons? The problem with all these Kings team is they always looking for an excuse or a way out rather than fighting through tough times. It's easy to throw in the towel. Is anyone telling them not to play defense?

As far as the offense we never had offensive flow and DMC taking 12 shots is a result of Rudy Gay chucking (which lately has been as bad as it's ever been here), we really are not playing that much faster I think we are exaggerating what it comes to "pace". I rarely see Collison pushing it (unless it's a clear 2 on 1) the only unit that pushes it is the 2nd unit.

The pace thing isn't exaggerated. Ignore the numbers at your own peril.

Under Corbin.333 105.1 111.7 99.02
Under Malone.458 103.6 104.2 95.70

Pace is the last number. Overall offense is also UP. Defense is up even more. Thus we lose.

They've also messed with the starting lineup quite a bit. You can't expect the same results with a different coach and a different system that is being, quite frankly, forced upon players who don't want it by a coach they also don't want.

It's a recipe for disaster.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ns-1st-9-games-as-sacramento-kings-head-coach

 

[Spike]

Was the following part tongue in cheek?

"Granted, the Kings have been a more effective team offensively under Corbin, pumping in 105.1 points per 100 possessions, according to NBA.com. That number ranks Sacramento 13th in the league in terms of offensive efficiency over that particular nine-game stretch, whereas the Kings were scoring just 103.6/100 under Malone, ranking them tied for 15th with the Miami Heat."

We've moved from 15th to 13th? Firing a coach to move up two spots
offensively while dropping precipitously defensively was surely a great move then.