Mark Cuban fined for comments about refs

#1
http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-05-11T035255Z_01_B680712_RTRUKOC_0_US-NBA-CUBAN.xml

Mavs' Cuban fined over referee comments

Wed May 10, 2006 11:53pm ET


NEW YORK (Reuters) - Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban was fined $200,000 for criticizing referees, National Basketball Association officials confirmed on Wednesday.
Cuban was fined $100,000 for coming onto the court to complain in Game One of his team's second-round playoff series against the San Antonio Spurs, and another $100,000 for comments he posted on his Web site blog.
His blog entry was entitled "How to improve NBA Playoff Officiating" and it contained more criticism of the league's referring policies.
Cuban was fined eight times for more than $1 million and suspended for three games in the first two years he owned the team, from 2000 to 2002.

He has been more reserved in his comments for the most part since then, but has still run foul of league officials for his behavior at times.
Dallas and San Antonio are tied 1-1 in their best-of-seven series.
 
#3
that article is stupid. he wasnt 12 guys to officiate 60-100 games? each guy officiates at least 15 games, but between 8 and 14 games in the first two weeks. maybe he doesn't realize those guys have to run up and down the court every time the ball goes up and down the court, only they don't have a bench.

how the hell did he make money being so stupid?
 
#4
Dave McNulla said:
how the hell did he make money being so stupid?
Timing. He made his billions by selling broadcast.com to Yahoo during the height of the dotcom lunacy. Don't think broadcast.com has ever made a penny for Yahoo since then.

He's pretty sharp technically, but has huge homer blinders on when it comes to the Mavs and the NBA. So do we all, but none of us own teams.
 
#6
So I guess you guys think the NBA fields great officials for playoff games? That was Cuban's point. Cuban's only justification for reducing the number of officials per game was that he believes there are too few competent officials. The number is less relevant to the point than the state of the NBA officiating system.

Cuban thinks NBA officiating is questionable at best, and whether Mark Cuban is an arrogant twit or not, I think that he is basically correct. Criticize the NBA and get fined $100,000. Welcome to the new Soviet Union.

I'm glad he cut his hair anyway.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#7
^^Bull.

Mark Cuban is PART of the NBA. It's not about the Soviet Union. It's about someone who thinks he's above the caveats of participating as an owner of an NBA franchise.

Cuban doesn't give a rat's patoot about anybody but Mark Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks. It's been shown time and time again that when the Mavericks are on the receiving end of a "favorable" call, Cuban rejoices, even when it's clear it was the wrong call. Talk about hypocrisy. If he's going to celebrate when a bad call goes his way, he cannot complain when a bad call goes against him. But he does...

Cuban is a self-absorbed, self-serving arse. Here's one of his recent entries:

...Now that I own the Mavs, I whine about a lot of things in the NBA, from marketing to officials, which has led to change. Changes in how games are sold and marketed, how games are presented, how some departments are organized and managed in the NBA. Thats the nice thing about whining to an organization that wants to improve. They might not always show the love, but actions can speak louder than words.
What's next? Is he going to fight with Al Gore over who really created the Internet?
 
#8
If anybody has any right to whine about playoff officiating, I believe it would be us. But no one even registered a formal complaint for the officiating of that game, from what I know, which is really weird to me. Cuban and PJ both register complaints, and like it or not, the officials listen to them.
 
#10
too bad thats chump change to him

if the NBA were to impose stiffer penalties for cuban's antics, i bet then would stop. fining him clearing isn't doing anything.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#11
VF21 said:
^^Bull.

Mark Cuban is PART of the NBA.
Technically he is not employed by them, so they seemed to have infringed on his 1st amendment rights. If he took this to court, no way does he pay the fine. I agree with the first fine for rushing the court, but 100,000 for an internet blog, that is bull.
 
#12
thesanityannex said:
Technically he is not employed by them, so they seemed to have infringed on his 1st amendment rights. If he took this to court, no way does he pay the fine. I agree with the first fine for rushing the court, but 100,000 for an internet blog, that is bull.
I am pretty sure that when you buy an NBA franchise they make you sign an agreement that gives all kinds of outs to the NBA brass if you don't tow the line (codes of coduct, do's and don't, dispute arbitration etc.). If they don't Cuban would be all over them by now...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
thesanityannex said:
Technically he is not employed by them, so they seemed to have infringed on his 1st amendment rights. If he took this to court, no way does he pay the fine. I agree with the first fine for rushing the court, but 100,000 for an internet blog, that is bull.
Nope. You're wrong. As part of the agreement franchise owners have with the National Basketball Association, they agree to not make certain kinds of comments. The penalty is a fine. It's not a violation of first amendment rights. The first amendment only applies to government passing laws that restrict free speech.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
CONGRESS shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech...

Any lawful contract entered into by two or more parties that has restrictions on what can and cannot be said as part of that contract and is voluntarily signed by the parties to the contract is completely legal and not in any way in violation of the first amendment.
 
#14
I know a lot of you HATE Cubes (especially you, VF21) but he's not much different than the Maloof brothers - whom I really respect and like as NBA owners. In fact, if this was posted by a Maloof brother on his blog I highly doubt you'd be all riled up about this and you'd even probably support him.

I think a lot of times b/c it's Cuban (again and again and again) that makes these comments - it impedes everyone from looking at his comments at an objective point of view.

Now, about that fine:
- running onto the court: well deserved. He should be fined $100k and even kicked out just like any other fan would if they jumped onto the court. As a Mavs fan I almost get embarassed when he does stuff like that.

- posting on his blog: what a stupid, absurd fine. I hope Mark Cuban pays David Stern in pennies like he used to, just to be a bigger pain in the butt. He wasn't even criticizing officials this time! HE CREATED THAT BLOG ENTRY BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS EVER BEGAN, so it's not like he's criticized officials after game 1. He was only suggesting what could make the NBA playoffs a better product for the NBA. Face it - a lot of the stuff he said in that blog is TRUE. The playoffs is the money maker for the NBA, so why not improve a product or ensure it's making the most profit it can?!

And you'd think David Stern would listen to the guy - this is the same David Stern that whores the NBA out to the TV networks for...you guessed it...max profits.
 
#15
An owner of an NBA team ought to be able to voice an opinion in public. The NBA is a corporation that he substantially supports. Cuban's comments were not out of line. He thinks the manner in which management selects referees is inappropriate. He is not the only person in the world that believes there are problems with officiating.

No Bull!
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#16
quick dog - If he wants to state his opinions, he has to accept that he's in violation of a specific clause in the contract. He obviously accepts that because he keeps paying the slap on the wrist fine...

His comments as an NBA owner were most definitely out of line as far as being in keeping with the rules he has agreed to follow.

If he and other owners think they should be able to voice opinions in public, then they should band together and address it at the next owner meeting.
---------------------------
mavsman - I don't hate Mark Cuban. I detest and abhor the persona he presents to the public, especially in our arena. He has been a smug, pompous arse repeatedly and I've seen it for myself. I'm not going to argue anything further about him because, quite frankly, I don't care that much.

He broke a rule; he paid a fine. He'll break more rules and he'll pay more fines. His blog makes it apparent that he's not after a better situation for everyone. He just wants it better for HIM. And that, too, is fine ... as long as I don't have to look at him.
 
#17
Evenstar said:
too bad thats chump change to him

if the NBA were to impose stiffer penalties for cuban's antics, i bet then would stop. fining him clearing isn't doing anything.
Yeah you're right. He will say whatever he wants to say and he doesn't care if he gets fined. He's willing to do/say whatever he wants to and will take that penalty. I think after a while they should come up with a different penalty because he's rich and he doesn't give a **** if he's fined. :rolleyes:
 
#19
VF21 said:
He broke a rule; he paid a fine. He'll break more rules and he'll pay more fines. His blog makes it apparent that he's not after a better situation for everyone. He just wants it better for HIM. And that, too, is fine ... as long as I don't have to look at him.
This is what I don't understand. What rule did he break? Why is it against the rules to say that he doesn't think the NBA is selecting the absolute best officials for the playoffs? It's not like he's saying that certain officials should be left out; he's saying, based on their regular season performance, the best officials should do the playoffs. If he was calling certain refs out, then I could see it.

The other thing about it is that if he wants to write a blog about the NBA officiating, he should be able to do that all he wants to, whether he's a team owner or not. If he put it on the NBA.com/mavericks page, then that's a horse of a different color, but this is his own personal, privately-owned website. It really has nothing to do with the NBA. It's not like he got on ESPN or TNT or ABC and voiced his opinion. It's tantamount to a Kings official posting here about the officiating and getting fined by the NBA. I think it's a bit much.

If it were a play-by-play announcer writing a blog entry, there would be no fine. He's getting fined because he's Mark Cuban.

I don't like him anymore than the next person does, and he's done a lot of stupid things that he deserves to get fined for (like running out on the court to argue a call, which happened since the blog entry, I believe), but he should not get fined for a blog entry on his own personal, privately-owned website suggesting a refinement in the referee selection process. NBA.com? Yes. Blogmaverick.com? No, not at all.

I compare it to having a private dinner party at your house at which you crack a couple of jokes about your boss, and you wind up getting suspended from work for it.

I think the NBA went too far with this. It's too much of an infringement into Cuban's personal life and outside activities.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#20
...sigh...

He's getting fined because there is a clause in the NBA contract guiding what owners and players can and cannot say. Is it right? Maybe, maybe not. But it's there. He KNOWS it's there because he's been fined under that same clause before. Have I actually seen the clause? No, but it has been talked about so much - Bibby and Webber skirting it on Jay Leno comes to mind immediately - that it's pretty well known.

Why is it an infringement of his personal life? It's on the bleeping INTERNET. He put it out there and it's getting a ****load of hits. Personal life? Oh, please. He knew Mavs fans and everyone else would be checking it out. It's no different than calling the local paper and talking to the sports columnist and then pretending your personal life has been violated when you're fined for a quote that comes out in the column.

He knew exactly what he was doing. Cuban might be a lot of things but he's not a fool. Paying $100,000 to the league is like me tipping my paper boy $5 to get the paper up close to my house. Cuban got tons of publicity and he loves it.
 
#21
VF21 said:
^^Bull.

Cuban is a self-absorbed, self-serving arse.
You are being far too kind to Cuban. You forgot the parrt about him also being a complete moron.

One of the reasons the NBA uses a larger pool of referees is to avoid having the same referees show up repeatedly refereeing the same teams in a series. This is to avoid the passion and anger that occurs in a series. Anger that occurs between refs and players and between refs and the crowd.

Imagine if Javie comes back to San Antonio in the next week or so and repeats the performance he just laid, like tossing Van Exel when reportedly NVE's offense was saying "come on ref" after the third foul called on Duncan and then Javie making a point of looking for him as he threw a towel at the bench, pure Javie grudge carrying which he has a history of with Van Exel and is known as somewhat of a prima donna ref. A game was busted wideopen at that point. There was a very angry, ugly crowd after that and if Javie showed up again the fans, given the passion of the playoffs, an incident with the fans and the refs could easily arise that Stern would just as soon avoid.

So dumbass Mark that is one damn good reason the league doesn't listen to your imbecilic idea about a small pool of refs. And btw if there were a small pool of refs which owner do you think would be the first to complain if he thought he was drawing a ref unfavorable to his team too often?
 
Last edited:

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
striker said:
You are being far too kind to Cuban. You forgot the parrt about him also being a complete moron.

One of the reasons the NBA uses a larger pool of referees is to avoid having the same referees show up repeatedly refereeing the same teams in a series. This is to avoid the passion and anger that occurs in a series. Anger that occurs between refs and players and between refs and the crowd.

Imagine if Javie comes back to San Antonio in the next week or so and repeats the performance he just laid, like tossing Van Exel when reportedly NVE's offense was saying "come on ref" after the third foul called on Duncan and then Javie making a point of looking for him as he threw a towel at the bench, pure Javie grudge carrying which he has a history of with Van Exel and is known as somewhat of a prima donna ref. A game was busted wideopen at that point. There was a very angry, ugly crowd after that and if Javie showed up again the fans, given the passion of the playoffs, an incident with the fans and the refs could easily arise that Stern would just as soon avoid.

So dumbass Mark that is one damn good reason the league doesn't listen to your imbecilic idea about a small pool of refs. And btw if there were a small pool of refs which owner do you think would be the first to complain if he thought he was drawing a ref unfavorable to his team too often?
Believe it or not, I was actually attempting to temper my feelings about him.

You've made a very good point about the small pool of officials. I'm pretty sure it never crossed Mr. Cuban's "mind."

;)
 
#23
striker said:
Imagine if Javie comes back to San Antonio in the next week or so and repeats the performance he just laid, like tossing Van Exel when reportedly NVE's offense was saying "come on ref" after the third foul called on Duncan and then Javie making a point of looking for him as he threw a towel at the bench, pure Javie grudge carrying which he has a history of with Van Exel and is known as somewhat of a prima donna ref. A game was busted wideopen at that point. There was a very angry, ugly crowd after that and if Javie showed up again the fans, given the passion of the playoffs, an incident with the fans and the refs could easily arise that Stern would just as soon avoid.
That's a bit naive to think that's all NVE said. This is the same guy that said "F the Kings they haven't won _____ " and also the same guy that's never shut his mouth when it came to ANYTHING. I love NVE but we all know that's not ALL he said.

;)
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#24
Um, hello? Not a Spurs-Mavericks board. Remember?

;)

Striker made a point by using Van Exel as an example. He could well have used ... oh, God I'm gonna say her name again ... Violet Palmer and her hatred of Webber.

The point isn't what NVE may or may not have said. The point is, and I fully agree with it, that you don't need carryover grudges - either on the part of the fans, the players OR the officials - influencing your playoffs.
 
#25
Cuban's remarks were not offensive, and should not have been preceived as offensive. David Stern and company have egos every bit as enormous as Mark Cuban. I think Stern is out of line. If there were no owners, there would be no NBA League. This is a high-dollar peeing contest. Right or wrong, good or bad, useful or useless, does not enter into the equation.
 
#26
VF21 said:
The point isn't what NVE may or may not have said. The point is, and I fully agree with it, that you don't need carryover grudges - either on the part of the fans, the players OR the officials - influencing your playoffs.
Excellent point and I agree. I also agree with Violet Palmer. She shouldn't be allowed to officiate games - not b/c she's a woman (Women are very capable of doing the job) but b/c she's just a horrible ref to begin with.

I didn't even know she had a grudge with Webber
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#27
mavsman said:
Excellent point and I agree. I also agree with Violet Palmer. She shouldn't be allowed to officiate games - not b/c she's a woman (Women are very capable of doing the job) but b/c she's just a horrible ref to begin with.

I didn't even know she had a grudge with Webber
Oh yeah ... It got to the point where it was almost laughable. She called him for stuff you don't even see them call against rookies in their first game. That would be fine...but she wasn't even consistent from quarter to quarter.
 
#28
VF21 said:
...sigh...

He's getting fined because there is a clause in the NBA contract guiding what owners and players can and cannot say. Is it right? Maybe, maybe not. But it's there. He KNOWS it's there because he's been fined under that same clause before. Have I actually seen the clause? No, but it has been talked about so much - Bibby and Webber skirting it on Jay Leno comes to mind immediately - that it's pretty well known.

Why is it an infringement of his personal life? It's on the bleeping INTERNET. He put it out there and it's getting a ****load of hits. Personal life? Oh, please. He knew Mavs fans and everyone else would be checking it out. It's no different than calling the local paper and talking to the sports columnist and then pretending your personal life has been violated when you're fined for a quote that comes out in the column.

He knew exactly what he was doing. Cuban might be a lot of things but he's not a fool. Paying $100,000 to the league is like me tipping my paper boy $5 to get the paper up close to my house. Cuban got tons of publicity and he loves it.
I disagree.

I don't think what Cuban said was overboard, and I don't think he was being overly critical. If he broke the rules, the rules are a joke. Just like Artest being suspended: he didn't deserve it, regardless of his background and previous offenses.

And in my opinion, Cuban posting a blog entry on a privately owned website that's not affiliated with the NBA should not be governed by the same rules. The same way a Kings official could post here about how the Maloofs mishandled the Adelman situation; I don't think that would warrant a fine.

It seems like Stern decided to fine Cuban because he doesn't like him and because he doesn't like what he had to say about the referees. But there was nothing wrong with what he said, and he didn't even go overboard and say that the refs suck or they have an agenda or anything close to the things he's said in the past. And I think it crossed the line between Stern controlling the NBA and him controlling people who are a part of the NBA and what they do. I think Mark Cuban should be allowed to say what he said in a private forum that's not affiliated with the NBA without being fined $100,000.
 
#29
Superman said:
I disagree.

I don't think what Cuban said was overboard, and I don't think he was being overly critical. If he broke the rules, the rules are a joke. Just like Artest being suspended: he didn't deserve it, regardless of his background and previous offenses.

And in my opinion, Cuban posting a blog entry on a privately owned website that's not affiliated with the NBA should not be governed by the same rules. The same way a Kings official could post here about how the Maloofs mishandled the Adelman situation; I don't think that would warrant a fine.

It seems like Stern decided to fine Cuban because he doesn't like him and because he doesn't like what he had to say about the referees. But there was nothing wrong with what he said, and he didn't even go overboard and say that the refs suck or they have an agenda or anything close to the things he's said in the past. And I think it crossed the line between Stern controlling the NBA and him controlling people who are a part of the NBA and what they do. I think Mark Cuban should be allowed to say what he said in a private forum that's not affiliated with the NBA without being fined $100,000.

Ooh, I don't know about that. If someone came and posted here, identified themself as a Maloof employee, then proceeded to criticise their handling of the Adelman situation... I think they'd be out of a job rather quickly.
 
#30
You're probably right.

But the fact that they own the Kings sets it differently, if you ask me. David Stern doesn't own the NBA, and he's not Mark Cuban's boss. I just don't think that Cuban crossed the line. I think David Stern crossed the line.