Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)

Agreed.

ROY is going to go between Ayton, Doncic or Knox. They are the ones ready to contribute from day 1.

I'm not saying that Bagley will be the best player in 3 years, but winning ROY doesn't guarantee anyone of NBA stardom. Just ask Tyreke, MCW, and Malcolm Brogdon, etc.

Players and GM's need to be judged on the finished product, and that takes at least 3 years to really show, not the rookie season.

That being said, I think Bagley still has the potential to become the best player from this draft.
Dont sleep on Giles bud
 
Also, I appreciate that Bagley is showing more than he did against the Suns, so we don’t have to outright attack his play on the game threads, but he is not showing #2 stuff currently. You can go on random NBA threads and not have him discussed in ROY or the top many rookies in opening action.

It’s still not acceptable

We have a lot of good things going on. Giles is picking up a lot of the slack as well, but let’s call a spade a spade. Bagley is not showing out to an acceptable tune of a #2 which makes discussion of alternatives like Luka more palpable
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
Contributor
Also, I appreciate that Bagley is showing more than he did against the Suns, so we don’t have to outright attack his play on the game threads, but he is not showing #2 stuff currently. You can go on random NBA threads and not have him discussed in ROY or the top many rookies in opening action.

It’s still not acceptable

We have a lot of good things going on. Giles is picking up a lot of the slack as well, but let’s call a spade a spade. Bagley is not showing out to an acceptable tune of a #2 which makes discussion of alternatives like Luka more palpable
Because #2 stuff is obvious after a couple of preseason games? Man, this kid's career is over already. Trade him quick!

I don't care if he is a 8-3 guy all year if after 2-3 years he is rounding into a very good player. Stop it with the evaluations before his rookie season even begins. Are you that impatient to jump to conclusions?
 
He looks fat to me. Slow and fat. To many burgers, hot dogs, fries and ice cream cones. He couldn't guard the 1s, 2s, or 3s, so now he's guarding 4s. He actually looks like a short 5 to me.
 
Also, I appreciate that Bagley is showing more than he did against the Suns, so we don’t have to outright attack his play on the game threads, but he is not showing #2 stuff currently. You can go on random NBA threads and not have him discussed in ROY or the top many rookies in opening action.

It’s still not acceptable

We have a lot of good things going on. Giles is picking up a lot of the slack as well, but let’s call a spade a spade. Bagley is not showing out to an acceptable tune of a #2 which makes discussion of alternatives like Luka more palpable
No it doesnt. Maybe if you want to push an agenda sure, but it really doesnt.

With the exception of Ayton, all of the bigs have shown flashes of what they are capable of as well as dropping clunkers. JJJ has probably been the most consistent so if you had a beef it would be there.

Dallas is playing Luka as a PF. Which means if we drafted him he would be fighting Giles and Belly right now for those minutes. Luka is playing PF so they can hide him on defense because of his athleticism issues. which are quite glaring at the moment. Luka went to the best possible place of any top 10 team drafting. He will have DeAndre Jordan covering for him.

Now let's delve a little deeper into this argument. Adding Luka to the Kings as a no defense playing, unathletic wing. Sure he can make plays with the ball in his hand but our PG is a speedster and best with the ball in his hands and NOT a catch and shoot player, our SG is either Buddy or Bogie (or an undersized Yogi) also best with the ball, our SF is TBA and Luka would absolutely KILL us at that position (oh, LeBron and KD are in the West you say?), and our Center is Willie who Lord only knows where his head is at half the time but rest be assured it wouldn't be covering Lukas backside.

The smarter play is having both Giles and Belly man that spot, Willie and an uber athletic Bagley who has shown a propensity for blocking shots at the rim, man the C spot, and let Bogie, Fox, Yogi and Buddy (and Mason) act as your playmakers.

The only thing that team needs is a solid SF which Luka ain't. Luka DOES NOT FIT on this team and I'm glad our front office recognized it. The Mavs can Haves him. He wont win jack squat. Book that.

Luka is not some transcendental talent that people are making him out to be. He isnt going to change the game. I would argue that Lonzo Ball is going to be a better player. Luka is an oversized and slower Ricky Rubio with a better jump shot. I feel like we have a whole bunch of Aileen Voisons on the board pissed we passed over Rubio once again, but this time they are males (one could argue about Aileen tho...). My best guess is they were wishing Lukas mom would be hanging around the Galleria.

Luka is going to be a decent ball player. He will make flashy plays, a highlight or 2 each month. What he wont be is a player that takes his team to the next level. If anybody on that Mavs team does it will be DSJ who I was OK with drafting over Fox (I still wanted Fox tho). Luka is at max 18pts, 6 rebs 6 asst 1 st .8 blk. Bagley is at most 25 pts, 11 rebs 2.5 asst 1.5 st 1.5 blk with better rim protection. The Kings went for potential and watching Bagley play they bet right. Bagleys physical tools and work ethic are too much to pass up. Plus Luka needs to lose weight and gain athleticism (,not an easy feat) where Bagley has to gain strength without sacrificing athleticism (easy to accomplish).

Gimme Bagley. All day. Twice on Tuesday. That my friend is calling a spade a spade.
 
Last edited:
Because #2 stuff is obvious after a couple of preseason games? Man, this kid's career is over already. Trade him quick!

I don't care if he is a 8-3 guy all year if after 2-3 years he is rounding into a very good player. Stop it with the evaluations before his rookie season even begins. Are you that impatient to jump to conclusions?
Because careers ‘typically’ happen in trajectories. Very good players usually show very good flashes. I mean it could happen that the best player won’t be in the initial ROY discussion or not looking overly distinguishable in preseason games but it’s not typical
 
No it doesnt. Maybe if you want to push an agenda sure, but it really doesnt.

With the exception of Ayton, all of the bigs have shown flashes of what they are capable of as well as dropping clunkers. JJJ has probably been the most consistent so if you had a beef it would be there.

Dallas is playing Luka as a PF. Which means if we drafted him he would be fighting Giles and Belly right now for those minutes. Luka is playing PF so they can hide him on defense because of his athleticism issues. which are quite glaring at the moment. Luka went to the best possible place of any top 10 team drafting. He will have DeAndre Jordan covering for him.

Now let's delve a little deeper into this argument. Adding Luka to the Kings as a no defense playing, unathletic wing. Sure he can make plays with the ball in his hand but our PG is a speedster and best with the ball in his hands and NOT a catch and shoot player, our SG is either Buddy or Bogie (or an undersized Yogi) also best with the ball, our SF is TBA and Luka would absolutely KILL us at that position (oh, LeBron and KD are in the West you say?), and our Center is Willie who Lord only knows where his head is at half the time but rest be assured it wouldn't be covering Lukas backside.

The smarter play is having both Giles and Belly man that spot, Willie and an uber athletic Bagley who has shown a propensity for blocking shots at the rim, man the C spot, and let Bogie, Fox, Yogi and Buddy (and Mason) act as your playmakers.

The only thing that team needs is a solid SF which Luka ain't. Luka DOES NOT FIT on this team and I'm glad our front office recognized it. The Mavs can Haves him. He wont win jack squat. Book that.

Luka is not some transcendental talent that people are making him out to be. He isnt going to change the game. I would argue that Lonzo Ball is going to be a better player. Luka is an oversized Ricky Rubio with a better jump shot. I feel like we have a whole bunch of Aileen Voisons on the board pissed we passed over Rubio once again, but this time they are males (one could argue about Aileen tho...). My best guess is they were wishing Lukas mom would be hanging around the Galleria.

Luka is going to be a decent balk player. He will make flashy plays, a highlight or 2 each month. What he wont be is a player that takes his team to the next level. If anybody on that Mavs team does it will be DSJ who I was OK with drafting over Fox (I still wanted Fox tho). Luka is at max 18pts, 6 rebs 6 asst 1 st .8 blk. Bagley is at most 25 pts, 11 rebs 2.5 asst 1.5 st 1.5 blk with better rim protection. The Kings went for potential and watching Bagley play they bet right. Bagleys physical tools and work ethic are too much to pass up. Plus Luka needs to lose weight and gain athleticism (,not an easy feat) where Bagley has to gain strength without sacrificing athleticism (easy to accomplish).

Gimme Bagley. All day. Twice on Tuesday.
Luka is a PF, I said that repeatedly pre-draft.

I disagree with the innate talent of Luka, but what has Bagley shown in the preseason?

I’m talking objectively, pundits aren’t feeling what he’s been showing in SL/preseason, try a Bagley twitter search. Google 2018 redraft
 
Luka is a PF, I said that repeatedly pre-draft.

I disagree with the innate talent of Luka, but what has Bagley shown in the preseason?

I’m talking objectively, pundits aren’t feeling what he’s been showing in SL/preseason, try a Bagley twitter search. Google 2018 redraft
If you must know, Bagley has shown ME a lot. His fluidity on the block. His grabbing a rebound and ability to get the ball to the front court himself. His selflessness. His crashing of the boards. His QUICK ups. His knack for being around the ball after shots come off the glass for a tip. His challenging shots near the rim. These things that dont show up on your pretty little box score but lead to winning plays.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Also, I appreciate that Bagley is showing more than he did against the Suns, so we don’t have to outright attack his play on the game threads, but he is not showing #2 stuff currently. You can go on random NBA threads and not have him discussed in ROY or the top many rookies in opening action.

It’s still not acceptable

We have a lot of good things going on. Giles is picking up a lot of the slack as well, but let’s call a spade a spade. Bagley is not showing out to an acceptable tune of a #2 which makes discussion of alternatives like Luka more palpable
Who the effin cares! It's the preseason! Hell, James harden was nowhere near the top rookie discussion but look where he is now. Did people forget that he was drafted the same year as Tyreke Evans and Stephen Curry and Brandon Jennings. People was ready to anoint jenning as the future ROY when he dropped 55 points early n the season
 
How silly is it that I'm arguing with someone about a Kings rookie while they tout a rookie from a different team tho.
More than anything I tout a change in FO, so if Luka continues to show more we aren’t having the same issues

Vivek hired Vlade without experience and he has had a questionable resume and if he didn’t get this pick right, as it looks after this year I want a professional, vetted FO taking care of the organization

Vlade is already seen by NBA pundits as one of the, if not the, worst GM running. This should seal a new FO, if Vivek doesn’t like the progress of such an important decision
 
No it doesnt. Maybe if you want to push an agenda sure, but it really doesnt.

With the exception of Ayton, all of the bigs have shown flashes of what they are capable of as well as dropping clunkers. JJJ has probably been the most consistent so if you had a beef it would be there.

Dallas is playing Luka as a PF. Which means if we drafted him he would be fighting Giles and Belly right now for those minutes. Luka is playing PF so they can hide him on defense because of his athleticism issues. which are quite glaring at the moment. Luka went to the best possible place of any top 10 team drafting. He will have DeAndre Jordan covering for him.

Now let's delve a little deeper into this argument. Adding Luka to the Kings as a no defense playing, unathletic wing. Sure he can make plays with the ball in his hand but our PG is a speedster and best with the ball in his hands and NOT a catch and shoot player, our SG is either Buddy or Bogie (or an undersized Yogi) also best with the ball, our SF is TBA and Luka would absolutely KILL us at that position (oh, LeBron and KD are in the West you say?), and our Center is Willie who Lord only knows where his head is at half the time but rest be assured it wouldn't be covering Lukas backside.

The smarter play is having both Giles and Belly man that spot, Willie and an uber athletic Bagley who has shown a propensity for blocking shots at the rim, man the C spot, and let Bogie, Fox, Yogi and Buddy (and Mason) act as your playmakers.

The only thing that team needs is a solid SF which Luka ain't. Luka DOES NOT FIT on this team and I'm glad our front office recognized it. The Mavs can Haves him. He wont win jack squat. Book that.

Luka is not some transcendental talent that people are making him out to be. He isnt going to change the game. I would argue that Lonzo Ball is going to be a better player. Luka is an oversized and slower Ricky Rubio with a better jump shot. I feel like we have a whole bunch of Aileen Voisons on the board pissed we passed over Rubio once again, but this time they are males (one could argue about Aileen tho...). My best guess is they were wishing Lukas mom would be hanging around the Galleria.

Luka is going to be a decent ball player. He will make flashy plays, a highlight or 2 each month. What he wont be is a player that takes his team to the next level. If anybody on that Mavs team does it will be DSJ who I was OK with drafting over Fox (I still wanted Fox tho). Luka is at max 18pts, 6 rebs 6 asst 1 st .8 blk. Bagley is at most 25 pts, 11 rebs 2.5 asst 1.5 st 1.5 blk with better rim protection. The Kings went for potential and watching Bagley play they bet right. Bagleys physical tools and work ethic are too much to pass up. Plus Luka needs to lose weight and gain athleticism (,not an easy feat) where Bagley has to gain strength without sacrificing athleticism (easy to accomplish).

Gimme Bagley. All day. Twice on Tuesday. That my friend is calling a spade a spade.
I’m at a loss of words
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Because careers ‘typically’ happen in trajectories. Very good players usually show very good flashes. I mean it could happen that the best player won’t be in the initial ROY discussion or not looking overly distinguishable in preseason games but it’s not typical
And Bagley hasn't show flashes? What are the 'flashes', those 'wow' plays that rookies apparently have to make in order to not be considered a bust, that Doncic has had in his games?
 
And Bagley hasn't show flashes? What are the 'flashes', those 'wow' plays that rookies apparently have to make in order to not be considered a bust, that Doncic has had in his games?
You’d have to search to believe he is. If you weren’t told until after last nights game who was the #2 pick would you have been able to guess? He’s looking pedestrian, not acceptable
 
You didn't answer my question though.
You have to feel good about watching them.

This is a Kings forum, but do you understand that the overwhelming objective public opinion is that Doncic has looked better? Do you follow the league on social media or hear commentary? Do you want me to start a third party thread on RealGM where 80%+ IMO would take Doncic at this point? Do you want me to start a thread on RealGM to redraft the top 5?

Are you guys trying to be oblivious in the fandom? He needs to do better, now
 
Dont sleep on Giles bud

If Joerger runs more deep rotations and splits up those minutes down the middle it's likely impossible for any King to even be in the discussion, just like last year. Individual awards are obviously tied directly to individual productivity and ROY is more than any other award since wins and rookies don't usually go hand in hand. The Kings are currently in a precarious spot where the rest of the NBA thinks every team has an average of 3+ players better than the Kings very best. Not good for a rebuilding squad. It's purgatory and if allowed to go on much longer will sink the rebuild before it even gets off the ground.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
This is a Kings forum, but do you understand that the overwhelming objective public opinion is that Doncic has looked better? Do you follow the league on social media or hear commentary? Do you want me to start a third party thread on RealGM where 80%+ IMO would take Doncic at this point? Do you want me to start a thread on RealGM to redraft the top 5?
I hate to break it to you, Ahab, but no matter how many times you cast that harpoon, you're not going to find Moby Doncic on the other end of it.
 
I hate to break it to you, Ahab, but no matter how many times you cast that harpoon, you're not going to find Moby Doncic on the other end of it.
I know, but we can certainly hold who made the pick accountable, and bring in who I’d prefer - a vetted FO mind with experience, so we all don’t have to be unnerved by the same minds making the decisions in the future.

With that, I support Marvin’s presence as a King, but he needs to show more from SL onward. It’s not about Doncic, a ‘number’ have been more impressive. I think Doncic will be very good personally, but I’m not a Doncic ‘stan’, and one doesn’t need to be to be insecure with what Marvin has shown
 
I know, but we can certainly hold who made the pick accountable, and bring in who I’d prefer - a vetted FO mind with experience, so we all don’t have to be unnerved by the same minds making the decisions in the future.

With that, I support Marvin’s presence as a King, but he needs to show more from SL onward. It’s not about Doncic, a ‘number’ have been more impressive. I think Doncic will be very good personally, but I’m not a Doncic ‘stan’, and one doesn’t need to be to be insecure with what Marvin has shown
Lot of "I" statements in there.
 
You have to feel good about watching them.

This is a Kings forum, but do you understand that the overwhelming objective public opinion is that Doncic has looked better? Do you follow the league on social media or hear commentary? Do you want me to start a third party thread on RealGM where 80%+ IMO would take Doncic at this point? Do you want me to start a thread on RealGM to redraft the top 5?

Are you guys trying to be oblivious in the fandom? He needs to do better, now
I don't give a rat ass about what people on real gm want or think after 3 preseason game. The same people anointed Rubio to be god gifts to bball
 
Lot of "I" statements in there.
I can’t say everyone. Some, I feel, though not saying who, will literally support anything and anyone in the organization without criticism indefinitely. Some are just made that way, which I respect, though I won’t agree all them a lot of the time. certainly when it comes to a lottery team with controversial issues
 
You have to feel good about watching them.

This is a Kings forum, but do you understand that the overwhelming objective public opinion is that Doncic has looked better? Do you follow the league on social media or hear commentary? Do you want me to start a third party thread on RealGM where 80%+ IMO would take Doncic at this point? Do you want me to start a thread on RealGM to redraft the top 5?

Are you guys trying to be oblivious in the fandom? He needs to do better, now
Lol 80% is generous if it’s polled without Kong’s colored glasses it would be like 99%
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
Lol 80% is generous if it’s polled without Kong’s colored glasses it would be like 99%
Prediction: If Doncic ends up being the better player, the folks saying "Bagley was great in high school and college, let's see how this pans out" are not going to look as silly as the "LOL our front office is teh stupidz" crowd will look if Bagley turns out better.
 
I can’t say everyone. Some, I feel, though not saying who, will literally support anything and anyone in the organization without criticism indefinitely. Some are just made that way, which I respect, though I won’t agree all them a lot of the time. certainly when it comes to a lottery team with controversial issues
I haven't seen one poster here who blindly follows faithfully. I think there are a gamut of posters who fall in the range but nobody I feel is too over the top positive. A lot of over the top negative but that's a different story. I know myself I have a wait and see attitude. I'm not kidding myself about certain players. If they haven't shown something by the end of their 3rd year then they are what they are, and some (Thomas Robinson for one) I knew by the end of their first year it just wasnt going to happen.

That being said, there are way too many tools and way too much effort being shown on by MBIII for you and others to be pushing this agenda.
 
I haven't seen one poster here who blindly follows faithfully. I think there are a gamut of posters who fall in the range but nobody I feel is too over the top positive. A lot of over the top negative but that's a different story. I know myself I have a wait and see attitude. I'm not kidding myself about certain players. If they haven't shown something by the end of their 3rd year then they are what they are, and some (Thomas Robinson for one) I knew by the end of their first year it just wasnt going to happen.

That being said, there are way too many tools and way too much effort being shown on by MBIII for you and others to be pushing this agenda.
The agenda of wanting the Kings to be good? He’s thoroughly disappointed me from draft night. He was expected to be a 20/10 franchise cornerstone, and hasn’t looked very distinguishable since draft night in my view and it’s not acceptable. Objective views agree with me. ESPN had him as the most disappointing first round pick in SL. I’ve offered to start a third party thread on RealGM about a redraft on the General Board so you understand NBA pundits view is closer to mine.

I’m not waiting three years to comment on what he’s showing, it’s not enough as far as I’m concerned. Not only that, Vlade is going from year to year, he will be judged on Marvin’s immediate progress.

He needs to show a lot more to live up to the expectations he had on draft night, and has been a disappointment

He needs to do better so that people can have confidence in him
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
The agenda of wanting the Kings to be good? He’s thoroughly disappointed me from draft night. He was expected to be a 20/10 franchise cornerstone, and hasn’t looked very distinguishable since draft night in my view and it’s not acceptable. Objective views agree with me. ESPN had him as the most disappointing first round pick in SL. I’ve offered to start a third party thread on RealGM about a redraft on the General Board so you understand NBA pundits view is closer to mine.

I’m not waiting three years to comment on what he’s showing, it’s not enough as far as I’m concerned. Not only that, Vlade is going from year to year, he will be judged on Marvin’s immediate progress.

He needs to show a lot more to live up to the expectations he had on draft night, and has been a disappointment

He needs to do better so that people can have confidence in him
He was never expected to be a 20/10 franchise cornerstone from day one though, which is a concept that you are either willfully ignoring or too stubborn to see. Of the three top dudes in the draft, Bagley was always the most "project"-ey of the bunch.




Also not sure what the random anonymous people on the RealGM forums have done to apparently become pundits.
 
If this isn't a flash of his potential I have no idea what is... He's definitely more raw than some other big men, but there's nothing that says he won't work his butt off to get better. He's the type of guy who will do what is needed and then some.

 
If this isn't a flash of his potential I have no idea what is... He's definitely more raw than some other big men, but there's nothing that says he won't work his butt off to get better. He's the type of guy who will do what is needed and then some.

Dunking on someone come on man, if you had shown a video of him creating his own shot I would understand