Kingster
Hall of Famer
My good faith question: If Clifford switched places with Lavine and was given the same minutes what stats would he have?
Is Nique a "savior"? Does it matter? (split from the [Game] thread)
- Thread starter Kingster
- Start date
His rebounding and assist numbers would be significantly better, as would his defensive advanced stats (though that 1.0 steals for LaVine is not all too shabby, considering). But he is struggling with his shot to open up his career and it looks tome like he needs some time to square that up, so the shooting numbers would not be any better than Cold Zach, on lower volume. Zach will come out of the slump and shoot better, we know this. Nique's shooting is still a work in progress.
His production would go up but like with Murray, the vets have to go so Nique can ascend as well. His playing time has been so sporadic. You can see him struggling with shot confidence. I blame Christie all day on this.
Rob-The-Great
Starter
Nique aint saving this team. I dont understand why everyone has this much faith in a LATE 1st round pick. If anyone Carter has a higher ceiling and he rotting on the dam bench.
Nique has potential but nothing pops out as superstar quality. I still go back to the biggest thing for me is that DDR is our biggest problem.
I watched this man closely and he is a way bigger liability than Lavine on defense and rotations. Worse tho, is the eye test passes with him witch makes it harder to bench um.
For instance, yesterday this man made a amazingly smooth layup with time running down. Then gives up back to back 3s with bad rotations, doesn't box out rebounds and overall stops our offense dead.
Lavine sticks out like sore thumb because he gives blatant turn overs and when he doesn't play defense, he really really doesn't play defense. You can see it.
But he doesn't stop offensive flow and he is fast enough to stay with his guy (when he wants). And hes younger and on a worse contract.
DDR needs to go asap. Monk also is amazing and terrible wrapped up into one player
Nique has potential but nothing pops out as superstar quality. I still go back to the biggest thing for me is that DDR is our biggest problem.
I watched this man closely and he is a way bigger liability than Lavine on defense and rotations. Worse tho, is the eye test passes with him witch makes it harder to bench um.
For instance, yesterday this man made a amazingly smooth layup with time running down. Then gives up back to back 3s with bad rotations, doesn't box out rebounds and overall stops our offense dead.
Lavine sticks out like sore thumb because he gives blatant turn overs and when he doesn't play defense, he really really doesn't play defense. You can see it.
But he doesn't stop offensive flow and he is fast enough to stay with his guy (when he wants). And hes younger and on a worse contract.
DDR needs to go asap. Monk also is amazing and terrible wrapped up into one player
Caccia
Starter
You might say many of the same things about Devin Carter. The difference? Carter was drafted by Monte McNair.
KainLear
Starter
This is what being a fan of a small market team is all about.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
We had people in here saying Keegan could be a number one option pure insanity so some expecting a late rounder to save the team isn’t a surprise
Is "can he save the team" your baseline for whether you will support a young player or not?
History is littered with NBA stars playing above their draft pick.
How did Peja work out?
I'm not saying Nique is HIM, but, he seems to be showing all the tools to be a strong part of a winning team.
Ellis
Carter
Nique
Murray
AIN'T THAT BAD. They are all max effort dudes, which we appreciate in Sacramento. Carter may not be worth his pick, we don't know. But he deserves a chance to give us minutes.
Honestly, I had my concerns about Monk, but the dude plays hard, even chaotic. I'm ok with that. If I were in charge, my lineup would be:
Ellis
Monk
Nique
Murray
Sabonis
Sure, it gets dicey after that, but man, I want to see it. And yeah, we'd get crushed on the boards, so maybe:
Monk
Nique
Murray
Achiuwa
Sabonis
You've got two glue guys who don't really need the ball, a scorer in Monk, and two guys who can get theirs (Murray and Sabonis) at any point, and can get hot if they need to.
TL;DR. Move LaVine and DDR (for different reasons). We have a likeable/workable roster in place.
Edit: oh damn. Forgot about Shröder. My point stands.
Rob-The-Great
Starter
I think its a huge difference between support and crowning him to take over the team. The people your asking him to play over are hall of farmers
I support the kid, just being realistic. Hes not a lottery pick and prob for a reason. Time will tell
I'm going to challenge you to show your work on this: I'm not taking this as fact. Please identify the posts that are "crowning" Nique Clifford. I want to see proof.
Yeah. So?
None of those guys are Kings Lifers, and none of those guys are playing "He absolutely must start"-level good in 2025, so their body of work means squat. If Russell Westbrook and DeMar DeRozan were still playing at a Hall of Fame level, neither one of them would be in Sacramento in the first place. And the only way LaVine is getting in the Hall of Fame is if he buys a ticket.
Your notion of "realistic" seems to involve favoring players who have no future with the Kings over a player who might, and your "not a lottery pick" criteria comes across as arbitrary at best. So you think that the Kings should show preference to a player who has many more games (not just more, but many more) behind him than he has ahead of him over a player that could well still be contributing for another decade, because the old-and-busted guy was a lottery pick, sixteen years ago?
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I like that sentence LOL
There is not one person on here that has said Nique is going to save the team. I think people are looking at him as a potential both sides of the ball starter which is pretty good for where we picked him.
And here's the process mistake thst the Kings are currently making. We are searching for a franchise level talent. Its probably not Nique, but what if it is? He's shown 2-way ability, what if the passing just ends up being special?
When youre a bad team, all your resources should be invested in finding a franchise cornerstone type talent. Right now, currently, Nique presents as one of the best chances on the team, to maybe be along-term starter or even a star. No matter how small that chance is
Caccia
Starter
This is actually possible, from what I have seen to date.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, he doesn't do anything great but he can do a little bit of everything. Defensively what he can cover is the question. He's a little bit tweenerish between guard and forward. Quicker guys on pick and roll get past him pretty easily and the really bigger wings/F's swallow him at times
kingsfan101
Starter
For everyone hoping that trading vets will open up PT for kids; it ain't happening.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't trade the vets and try to get something. We can't trade those salaries and avoid getting some junk in return, particularly if we want some assets.
No one's giving high quality assets for our vets. So, if we are getting low value assets (SRP, or late FRP), we are getting some players that are not completely useless. Given our direction, Doug is likely to give them time over the kids.
I just hope we don't attach assets to trade away the vets. I might be delusional, but I place lot of faith in Carter. I think the team could really benefit from a DAWG like him. Would hate to see him fill that role elsewhere.
Jdbraver137
Starter
No he isn’t a savior. He is developing. He isn’t a #1 pick., but who knows he can develop into a special player for our team. Only one way to find out…Play him.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Keeping in mind that someone like Doug Christie wasn't a high pick or "savior" for the Kings. He was a key two way player for a very good team
Jdbraver137
Starter
That’s literally what I was implying. The problem,though, is he has less time than say a 19 year old to develop. He has to be on the fast track.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Also remember that Christie was a later bloomer....and plenty of other examples
Jdbraver137
Starter
My first post said I believe he can. Not sure what you are disagreeing with me about.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Do disagreement at all. Just expanding on the thought
Jdbraver137
Starter
This team is really bad. What’s worse is I can’t stand most of the players.