[CON/SAC] Discussion thread
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
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Overall just a really sad game to watch tonight. Too many open looks & easy shots going in for the Sun. The Monarchs continued to struggle knocking down easy shots. Brunson was the lone bright spot tonight, along with the Heart of Newton. They always seem to go all out.
Our coaches need to go to the drawing board, somehow find that magic.
Get back that swagger, I know it's there? Just a tough loss. The outlook is dark right now, lets hope we can send a darker cloud over the Sky on sunday....or else we run the risk of falling to the bottom with Houston
Feeling blue in SacTown
Our coaches need to go to the drawing board, somehow find that magic.
Get back that swagger, I know it's there? Just a tough loss. The outlook is dark right now, lets hope we can send a darker cloud over the Sky on sunday....or else we run the risk of falling to the bottom with Houston
Feeling blue in SacTown
Thoughts From Last Night's Game
DISCLAIMER: I AM GOING TO TRY MY BEST NOT TO OVER REACT. IF I DO COME IN A SLAP ME BACK TO MY SENSES.
In my years of attending Monarchs games, that had to be the worst (both on the court and in the stands) display of basketball that I have ever experienced.
Let's start with on the court:
The Monarchs over the last six quarters are shooting 29-99. And if you take away Rebekkah Brunson's 11 field goals made, the rest of the team has made 18 shots in the last six quarters. And last night it was nothing the Sun was doing. All they had to do is clog the paint, allow their wings to fill the lanes and wait for a Monarch to either clank a shot up with under 5 seconds left on the shot clock, or force a drive into the trees and get their shot block (Robinson, Newton, Ticha especially). Offensively everybody except for Brunson and Ticha was reacting to what the defense was going to give them instead of (like every other team in the W) being proactive, aggressive, creative.
But the real problem with this team since Coach Jenny has been here is the defense. This team can not stop anybody right now, and if you be honest include last season as well. The White Line defense has always been vulnerable to weak side/help side defense, leaving open 3 point shooters on the opposite side of the court. But when you have players are are not playing weak side defense, you get what we saw last night. Wide open sideline, wing three point shots that most players in this league can hit.
Individually, Adrian Williams-Strong has officially become a liability. I would start Harper right now, because Williams-Strong in the post is a turnover waiting to happen and gives up way too much defensively.
What is going on with Kara Lawson? She is relying way too much on her brain, and is not naturally playing in the flow.
Nicole Powell is going to be fine. She is facing tremendous pressure defense because she is the only perimeter threat right now.
Chelsea Newton is a walking concussion. She can not stay off the floor and Scholanda Robinson is still trying to get her conditioning down.
Off the court - In my years of going to Arco Arena that had to be the flatest, deadest, emptiest game I ever experienced. No life, no energy and to my surprise no people. I hope Sunday is much better because I can not take another night like last night.
DISCLAIMER: I AM GOING TO TRY MY BEST NOT TO OVER REACT. IF I DO COME IN A SLAP ME BACK TO MY SENSES.
In my years of attending Monarchs games, that had to be the worst (both on the court and in the stands) display of basketball that I have ever experienced.
Let's start with on the court:
The Monarchs over the last six quarters are shooting 29-99.
And if you take away Rebekkah Brunson's 11 field goals made, the rest of the team has made 18 shots in the last six quarters. And last night it was nothing the Sun was doing. All they had to do is clog the paint, allow their wings to fill the lanes and wait for a Monarch to either clank a shot up with under 5 seconds left on the shot clock, or force a drive into the trees and get their shot block (Robinson, Newton, Ticha especially). Offensively everybody except for Brunson and Ticha was reacting to what the defense was going to give them instead of (like every other team in the W) being proactive, aggressive, creative. But the real problem with this team since Coach Jenny has been here is the defense. This team can not stop anybody right now, and if you be honest include last season as well. The White Line defense has always been vulnerable to weak side/help side defense, leaving open 3 point shooters on the opposite side of the court. But when you have players are are not playing weak side defense, you get what we saw last night. Wide open sideline, wing three point shots that most players in this league can hit.
Individually, Adrian Williams-Strong has officially become a liability. I would start Harper right now, because Williams-Strong in the post is a turnover waiting to happen and gives up way too much defensively.
What is going on with Kara Lawson? She is relying way too much on her brain, and is not naturally playing in the flow.
Nicole Powell is going to be fine. She is facing tremendous pressure defense because she is the only perimeter threat right now.
Chelsea Newton is a walking concussion. She can not stay off the floor and Scholanda Robinson is still trying to get her conditioning down.
Off the court - In my years of going to Arco Arena that had to be the flatest, deadest, emptiest game I ever experienced. No life, no energy and to my surprise no people. I hope Sunday is much better because I can not take another night like last night.
I was hard pressed to remember a game like last night too - I wanna say last year's game against Indiana in Indiana was one that felt like this one but since I only listened to that one it's hard to say for sure but it was similar in that the other team had more of a reason to sleepwalk through a game than the Monarchs did yet didn't. This one was worse because they were home and had been off nearly a week.
...and I also found myself trying to reconcile a lot of different impulsive feelings both during the game and after so I think I'm in your same boat PR so far be it for me to try to slap you back to your senses when I'm still trying to figure out mine.
My sense is that things spiraled out of control early because the Monarchs team that checked out of the second half of last week's game still hasn't returned to Sacramento. So I'm hard pressed to say much positive about anybody's performance besides Brunson's.
When they started clanking free throws early, I figured it was going to be a long night and unfortunately I appeared to have guessed right. Nothing they managed to do well sparked them, and in turn nothing sparked the crowd. (I have experienced games at ARCO where the crowd took their cue from the way the team played and checked out emotionally too - the crowd wanted something to get behind and the Monarchs never gave it).
Connecticut tried to play down to the Monarchs level in the second half and if the Ms had found ANY semblance of a little bit of ANYTHING, they maybe could have stolen that game despite everything they were trying to do to play a game via absentee ballot.
...and I also found myself trying to reconcile a lot of different impulsive feelings both during the game and after so I think I'm in your same boat PR so far be it for me to try to slap you back to your senses when I'm still trying to figure out mine.
My sense is that things spiraled out of control early because the Monarchs team that checked out of the second half of last week's game still hasn't returned to Sacramento. So I'm hard pressed to say much positive about anybody's performance besides Brunson's.
When they started clanking free throws early, I figured it was going to be a long night and unfortunately I appeared to have guessed right. Nothing they managed to do well sparked them, and in turn nothing sparked the crowd. (I have experienced games at ARCO where the crowd took their cue from the way the team played and checked out emotionally too - the crowd wanted something to get behind and the Monarchs never gave it).
Connecticut tried to play down to the Monarchs level in the second half and if the Ms had found ANY semblance of a little bit of ANYTHING, they maybe could have stolen that game despite everything they were trying to do to play a game via absentee ballot.
Player's Only Meeting?????
PLAYER'S ONLY MEETING??? That can't be very good!!!
And I am agreeing with PR on everything except the tone of Arco, cause I wasn't there. And to be 100% honest... based on what I have seen and heard, I am glad I missed it.
Dispite this showing, I am not prepared to phone in the season just yet. However I am so in agreement with PR on the Harpeer situation. She definately needs to start. I can't see any reason at this point why not.
But for those of you who need numbers:
Our Starting Center has scored 11 point over the last 4 games TOTAL. 6 of which came last night. If you exclude the NY games where she scored 11 pts and 9 rbs, A-Dub has scored 17 pts and 20 in 5 of the last 6 games TOTAL. That amount to 3.4 pts and 4 rbs per contest.
Perhaps I could accept that from a Rookie just cutting her teeth, but not a 7 year vet. Since Rebekkah, Kelly and Harper seem to be getting the majority of minutes anyway, why not Toss Harper out there. Let her start for the rest of the season. Our Frontcourt will be better long term for it.
As for Sho and Chelsea... I think Chelsea is way too banged up, and Sho is still getting back. Perhaps this is a good time to take a look at Charel Allen. She is an outstanding athlete good scorer and can create her own shot. We need a shot in the arm from someone at the 2. Why not give her a few minutes and see what she can do?
And I guess my last question to the class is Does anyone think it is time to consider a trade? If so for what position? I have been looking and Whiz doesn't have a history of making Mid-season trades to my recollection. Anyone think he is considering one?
PLAYER'S ONLY MEETING??? That can't be very good!!!
And I am agreeing with PR on everything except the tone of Arco, cause I wasn't there. And to be 100% honest... based on what I have seen and heard, I am glad I missed it.
Dispite this showing, I am not prepared to phone in the season just yet. However I am so in agreement with PR on the Harpeer situation. She definately needs to start. I can't see any reason at this point why not.
But for those of you who need numbers:
Our Starting Center has scored 11 point over the last 4 games TOTAL. 6 of which came last night. If you exclude the NY games where she scored 11 pts and 9 rbs, A-Dub has scored 17 pts and 20 in 5 of the last 6 games TOTAL. That amount to 3.4 pts and 4 rbs per contest.
Perhaps I could accept that from a Rookie just cutting her teeth, but not a 7 year vet. Since Rebekkah, Kelly and Harper seem to be getting the majority of minutes anyway, why not Toss Harper out there. Let her start for the rest of the season. Our Frontcourt will be better long term for it.
As for Sho and Chelsea... I think Chelsea is way too banged up, and Sho is still getting back. Perhaps this is a good time to take a look at Charel Allen. She is an outstanding athlete good scorer and can create her own shot. We need a shot in the arm from someone at the 2. Why not give her a few minutes and see what she can do?
And I guess my last question to the class is Does anyone think it is time to consider a trade? If so for what position? I have been looking and Whiz doesn't have a history of making Mid-season trades to my recollection. Anyone think he is considering one?
well, it's game day again ... i'm ready, i'll be there ... will you ???
on the A-Dub / Harper thing ... although i am enjoying A-Dub playing harder and with more heart this season, seriously that's great !!! ... i still feel that she has small hands, she's not a strong player, she's not very agressive, etc. ... overall i feel that she is below average for the league ... i hate ragging on a player that's doing their best, but i just don't think she's all that good, and never really was, and definitely never will be ...
Whereas for Harper, i say let's find out what she can do, trial by fire, all of that ... i'd rather see her fail, than wonder if she could be succeeding ...
A-Dub is definitely tradable in my mind, there's no need whatsoever to keep her around to build for the future ... not sure who would want her though, or what they would give up ...
on a similiar note, i wanna see what Charel Allen can do ... also, i am completely over L. Atkinson, and Kim Smith, put a fork in them, they are done ... it hurts me to say that, and it's nothing personal, they just aren't that good compared to the talent they are trying to beat ...
Aqua Franklin is also on my bubble, i need to see a lot more than rushing up the court to make a short akward pass to another Monarch near the sidleine, when the defense has already dialed in on it to make a steal ...
all in my humble o, of course ...
maybe we can draft Devanei Hampton for next year ... mmmm ... Devanie Hampton ... (from Cal ...)
on the A-Dub / Harper thing ... although i am enjoying A-Dub playing harder and with more heart this season, seriously that's great !!! ... i still feel that she has small hands, she's not a strong player, she's not very agressive, etc. ... overall i feel that she is below average for the league ... i hate ragging on a player that's doing their best, but i just don't think she's all that good, and never really was, and definitely never will be ...
Whereas for Harper, i say let's find out what she can do, trial by fire, all of that ... i'd rather see her fail, than wonder if she could be succeeding ...
A-Dub is definitely tradable in my mind, there's no need whatsoever to keep her around to build for the future ... not sure who would want her though, or what they would give up ...
on a similiar note, i wanna see what Charel Allen can do ... also, i am completely over L. Atkinson, and Kim Smith, put a fork in them, they are done ... it hurts me to say that, and it's nothing personal, they just aren't that good compared to the talent they are trying to beat ...
Aqua Franklin is also on my bubble, i need to see a lot more than rushing up the court to make a short akward pass to another Monarch near the sidleine, when the defense has already dialed in on it to make a steal ...
all in my humble o, of course ...
maybe we can draft Devanei Hampton for next year ... mmmm ... Devanie Hampton ... (from Cal ...)
Given how flat out poorly the team played, I'm VERY happy that they felt the need to talk about it. They are hitting a stretch where their practice and down time is going to be limited so they need to get their stuff fixed or else they can concede the race for a final playoff spot to Minnesota or Phoenix and play the remainder of the season as one long teachable moment. Maybe they'll play better now that they won't have this down time and they'll have to play more regularly. But the LA game was sorta forgivable because they at least strung a half of the best basketball they'd played this season in front of the worst half of basketball they'd played all season. Friday night was just bad.
Whiz technically made a trade on the cheap picking up Crystal Kelly a game into the season. If folks want to see Allen and Harper/Kelly play more, why the need to make a trade? When this group has its head screwed on straight they've played well. That I still am having to qualify that with the word "when" nearly a third of the way into the season is what is problematic.
I was watching Whiz during the game (since it became painful to watch in and of itself after a point) and he was squirming much of the second half. Except during an entertaining moment when it appeared he disagreed with a call one of the refs made that gave the Sun the ball. He locked in with a flesh burning death stare on that ref as she came over to his side of the floor and stand a few feet away from him to hand the ball to whoever was going to inbound it.
Having said that...again, while that game became unwatchable...I mentally was identifying pieces of this team I would be cool seeing moved in the offseason. This definitely c/should be a transitional season for this roster like 2004 had been. I do believe that they need their defense to be working well to generate a portion of their offense - the first half of the LA game (and parts of others) definitely was indicative of that. But their half court game continues to be dreadful when teams are able to match personnel to it or the personnel within it or both.
They might want to try playing a full 40 minutes tonight for kicks tho..
Whiz technically made a trade on the cheap picking up Crystal Kelly a game into the season. If folks want to see Allen and Harper/Kelly play more, why the need to make a trade? When this group has its head screwed on straight they've played well. That I still am having to qualify that with the word "when" nearly a third of the way into the season is what is problematic.
I was watching Whiz during the game (since it became painful to watch in and of itself after a point) and he was squirming much of the second half. Except during an entertaining moment when it appeared he disagreed with a call one of the refs made that gave the Sun the ball. He locked in with a flesh burning death stare on that ref as she came over to his side of the floor and stand a few feet away from him to hand the ball to whoever was going to inbound it.
Having said that...again, while that game became unwatchable...I mentally was identifying pieces of this team I would be cool seeing moved in the offseason. This definitely c/should be a transitional season for this roster like 2004 had been. I do believe that they need their defense to be working well to generate a portion of their offense - the first half of the LA game (and parts of others) definitely was indicative of that. But their half court game continues to be dreadful when teams are able to match personnel to it or the personnel within it or both.
They might want to try playing a full 40 minutes tonight for kicks tho..
lol..let me tap into uncommonclay's Devanei wish list for a second since we cross paths on the post.
I like her, but we don't really need her unless DeMya isn't coming back. The top priority in the offseason IMO should definitely be a scoring guard or a wing. (Zellous, McCoughtry or shoot, Harper's former teammate Coleman could work but that's lottery talk and I'm not quite ready to look there yet). But if they come into next season without another legitimate scorer either via draft or trade who plays on the wing or in the backcourt?..... The productivity drop off in the paint should be able to be plugged unless the fates frown on the franchise for a third consecutive season. But IMO there is another glaring hole that they can't ignore much longer and somebody magically isn't going to come off of crutches/surgery and fix that.
I like her, but we don't really need her unless DeMya isn't coming back. The top priority in the offseason IMO should definitely be a scoring guard or a wing. (Zellous, McCoughtry or shoot, Harper's former teammate Coleman could work but that's lottery talk and I'm not quite ready to look there yet). But if they come into next season without another legitimate scorer either via draft or trade who plays on the wing or in the backcourt?..... The productivity drop off in the paint should be able to be plugged unless the fates frown on the franchise for a third consecutive season. But IMO there is another glaring hole that they can't ignore much longer and somebody magically isn't going to come off of crutches/surgery and fix that.
I like Devanei just cuz i like her game, and she does take shots !!!
i wasn't really trying to say we need a post more than a guard, mainly i just think the M's are OFFENSIVELY CHALLENGED real, real, real, real, real bad ... i mean it's painful sometimes ... i am craving some players who are scorers, who can create a little and get an open shot or an assist ... dribble AND shoot AND pass ... is that too much to ask ??? ... ; )
i wasn't really trying to say we need a post more than a guard, mainly i just think the M's are OFFENSIVELY CHALLENGED real, real, real, real, real bad ... i mean it's painful sometimes ... i am craving some players who are scorers, who can create a little and get an open shot or an assist ... dribble AND shoot AND pass ... is that too much to ask ??? ... ; )
Again I find myself totally agreeing with a poster.
Uncommonclay, I agree 100% with your entire post. Especially when it comes to A-Dub. I realize that she is playing hard, and she really is doing the best she can at this point. So I also have a problem “Serving her up on a POO-POO platter”. But it is what it is.
I think with the departure of Yo, everyone figured this would be a transition year. However I would like to reference something that Krista Blunk said at the end of the Conn game. She said that The Monarchs do not have a Star player that you can give the ball to and have take over a ball game, Like other teams do, and with the influx of talent that is something they may have to address.
I am paraphrasing but that was the gist of what she said.
That may be a reason to consider a trade.
Now who in their right mind will trade you a player that has “TAKE OVER ABILITY”? My guess is NOBODY. (Well maybe Karleen Thompson feels like sending us Tina. )But what you can consider is Who isn’t happy where they are? Who does something that we need? Who are we willing to part with?
Quite frankly I think we need another scoring 3. Marissa Coleman would be an awesome addition to the Monarchs. But that indeed is a draft discussion and I don’t think we are there just yet. I think we have players that could be attractive to someone. And if we can’t move them for a player of equal or superior talent, then for draft picks. For the ability to trade up in this upcoming draft.
As for the Rookies…I think our rookies are proving to be short term and long term assets for the Franchise, definitely worth a closer look. Trading for a Player/future pick has little to do with their production. It is the lack of production from our mid level vets and the Lack of a “Legit Superstar” that may necessitate a trade scenario.
I will give Whiz credit in Drafting Harper and aquiring Kelly. I thought he had a lousy Off-Season but I have to give him credit on the draft. What I would like to see him do is make a mid season move to improve this team. I realize that making a trade would mean he would have to admit that he made some poor choices before. And I am not sure he is up to that. But then again he did claim Kelly off of waivers.
I haven’t begun to think of who could be acquired but I think if a trade is made it should be someone that thinks score first.
And this may be an even crazier idea…
Bone Breaks only take about 12 weeks to mend. After speaking with DeMya opening night she said there was a possibility that she could be back before the season ends. “IF the circumstance was right…” The way I see it, if she can run by the end of July I try to activate her after the Olympic break. That gives an entire month of evaluation to see if she can go.
I know there is a collective gasps at the very thought. I gasped myself at the time. But she said her ligaments are tight and the knee is as strong as it has ever been. Besides the cracked patella. Crazy?? Maybe… But within the realm of possibility.
I am just putting something out there to chew on... So Chew away
Uncommonclay, I agree 100% with your entire post. Especially when it comes to A-Dub. I realize that she is playing hard, and she really is doing the best she can at this point. So I also have a problem “Serving her up on a POO-POO platter”. But it is what it is.
I think with the departure of Yo, everyone figured this would be a transition year. However I would like to reference something that Krista Blunk said at the end of the Conn game. She said that The Monarchs do not have a Star player that you can give the ball to and have take over a ball game, Like other teams do, and with the influx of talent that is something they may have to address.
I am paraphrasing but that was the gist of what she said.
That may be a reason to consider a trade.
Now who in their right mind will trade you a player that has “TAKE OVER ABILITY”? My guess is NOBODY. (Well maybe Karleen Thompson feels like sending us Tina. )But what you can consider is Who isn’t happy where they are? Who does something that we need? Who are we willing to part with?
Quite frankly I think we need another scoring 3. Marissa Coleman would be an awesome addition to the Monarchs. But that indeed is a draft discussion and I don’t think we are there just yet. I think we have players that could be attractive to someone. And if we can’t move them for a player of equal or superior talent, then for draft picks. For the ability to trade up in this upcoming draft.
As for the Rookies…I think our rookies are proving to be short term and long term assets for the Franchise, definitely worth a closer look. Trading for a Player/future pick has little to do with their production. It is the lack of production from our mid level vets and the Lack of a “Legit Superstar” that may necessitate a trade scenario.
I will give Whiz credit in Drafting Harper and aquiring Kelly. I thought he had a lousy Off-Season but I have to give him credit on the draft. What I would like to see him do is make a mid season move to improve this team. I realize that making a trade would mean he would have to admit that he made some poor choices before. And I am not sure he is up to that. But then again he did claim Kelly off of waivers.
I haven’t begun to think of who could be acquired but I think if a trade is made it should be someone that thinks score first.
And this may be an even crazier idea…
Bone Breaks only take about 12 weeks to mend. After speaking with DeMya opening night she said there was a possibility that she could be back before the season ends. “IF the circumstance was right…” The way I see it, if she can run by the end of July I try to activate her after the Olympic break. That gives an entire month of evaluation to see if she can go.
I know there is a collective gasps at the very thought. I gasped myself at the time. But she said her ligaments are tight and the knee is as strong as it has ever been. Besides the cracked patella. Crazy?? Maybe… But within the realm of possibility.
I am just putting something out there to chew on... So Chew away
The only two players I think are even worth mentioning in next year's draft are Angel McCoughtry and Marissa Coleman. The other top players are nice, but meh. We already have Shavonte Zellous, and her name is Charel Allen. We need a scoring wing. We don't need shooters. We have those, and they are hot and cold. When they're on, they put up 25+. When they're cold, they don't score. An example of what we could use right now is Candice Wiggins. While her shooting tends to be streaky, she's still able to get to the hole and draw fouls. That's why she's able to pour in 17 points every single night even when she can't hit the broad side of the barn.
Let's see where we are come September. Assuming we're in the playoffs (like we are now if the season ended today), I wouldn't mind sending one of our current wings (preferably Powell) to a lottery team in exchange for a lottery pick so that we can get a Coleman or a McCoughtry. I'd also like to see Tina Thompson conclude her playing career in NorCal. We can dream, can't we?
Let's see where we are come September. Assuming we're in the playoffs (like we are now if the season ended today), I wouldn't mind sending one of our current wings (preferably Powell) to a lottery team in exchange for a lottery pick so that we can get a Coleman or a McCoughtry. I'd also like to see Tina Thompson conclude her playing career in NorCal. We can dream, can't we?
It was a rough game to watch, but if you want to see parts of it again, here's a gallery.
http://www.spmsportspage.com/images...Connecticut-Sun-72-WNBA-06-20-2008/index.html
http://www.spmsportspage.com/images...Connecticut-Sun-72-WNBA-06-20-2008/index.html