Respect is earned, not freely granted. He had a clean slate from everybody here when he took the job. I agree the name calling thing is over the top, but people are upset. Some of it is tongue in cheek anyway. But I can't emphasize enough, that this is nothing new. We go through this every year. The only thing that's really different about this off-season so far is the pronounced presence of new people telling us to stop discussing basketball and start buying tickets instead like grateful fans. I was upset when we traded for Jimmer and Salmons. I was upset when we included a first round pick, protected or no, in the Hickson trade. I was upset when we overspent on Marcus Thornton and I was upset when we chose to pay Chuck Hayes instead of Samuel Dalembert. I would think that the results of these moves all going more less as I predicted would have earned me some credibility with my analysis. But notice I'm still here. Obviously I'm sticking around anyway, I just want to see the team win games. If all this group cares about is selling tickets than I guess it doesn't matter who they choose to sign or not sign. But if they want to actually win more games then they lose, it matters a lot. And that's what we're talking about here. It's not about next season, it's about the next 4+ seasons.
Fire PDA!
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That right there is not a 30 win team. That is a 20 win team at best. You have only one play maker/ball handler on that team who will primarily be looking for his own shot. Every play with Evans' talent set needs a ball handling guard next to them.
That team might allow 95-100 PPG, but they are only going to score 80-85.
The NOH don't even see Evans as a PG, which is why they are playing him next to Holliday, and maybe even Gordon.
That team might allow 95-100 PPG, but they are only going to score 80-85.
The NOH don't even see Evans as a PG, which is why they are playing him next to Holliday, and maybe even Gordon.
Stay classy, Dave. Look at what this guy is posting on twitter:
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave2m
I guess I'm a "company man" when I get upset with fans like this. My. God. pic.twitter.com/RvknZqBJLV
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave2m
I guess I'm a "company man" when I get upset with fans like this. My. God. pic.twitter.com/RvknZqBJLV
I've enjoyed following Leslie's tweets but this whole debacle today is her fault. If she hadn't played the "someone just stepped in & saved them for you" card she wouldn't have opened the can of worms.
She could easily have said something about the front office working towards a better team, you have to break eggs to make omelets, etc. but she came back with a snarky comment that Ron did not deserve. Se needs to realize that our fan base has been through hell and back, we're desperate to support the front office and truly want everything to turn around. She wasn't here in the bad times; she has no idea what it is to live through what we did over the past 7 or so years. Patience? We're trying but we were on life support, flat-lined and were brought back right as we were walking towards the light. She can't expect us to just sit back and watch what makes no sense. We NEED to know we aren't just going to end up in the same old place, but on a different train.
She could easily have said something about the front office working towards a better team, you have to break eggs to make omelets, etc. but she came back with a snarky comment that Ron did not deserve. Se needs to realize that our fan base has been through hell and back, we're desperate to support the front office and truly want everything to turn around. She wasn't here in the bad times; she has no idea what it is to live through what we did over the past 7 or so years. Patience? We're trying but we were on life support, flat-lined and were brought back right as we were walking towards the light. She can't expect us to just sit back and watch what makes no sense. We NEED to know we aren't just going to end up in the same old place, but on a different train.
That's completely backwards logic. The onus is on the new ownership group to turn things around and show that a successful team CAN be built in this market. Loyalty is a two way street and the Kings fans (myself included) have held up their end of the bargain for three decades with the team a hopeless shambles for more than 2/3 of those years. I have no intention of buying season tickets again until I see signs that things have really changed. That doesn't mean a contending or playoff team. It means a recognizable direction. It means seeing smart moves. It means not ignoring the reality of what roster changes have been made thus far.
If the story that is ultimately going to be told is that it is impossible to ever build a winning team in Sacramento then quite frankly keeping the team here was NOT the right decision by the NBA. I don't believe that's the conclusion that should be drawn though. Yes, this is a tougher market to build a winner in than LA or NY, but we've seen before that it is possible.
If the story that is ultimately going to be told is that it is impossible to ever build a winning team in Sacramento then quite frankly keeping the team here was NOT the right decision by the NBA. I don't believe that's the conclusion that should be drawn though. Yes, this is a tougher market to build a winner in than LA or NY, but we've seen before that it is possible.
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This is a public site, it's not like he is tweeting private info.
Also, I sorta agree with him. You guys have absolutely gone berserker. I am seriously considering setting up an account at STR because of all this. I've been here for a decade, and this is just nuts.
I'm not happy about Landry, I also don't want Monta. But if you read between the lines of Leslies tweets, we don't have trade-able assets. Definitely not to the level our fans think.
So debate the moves, but take it down a notch.
I see nothing wrong with it either even though he's quoting my post.
He also said that if in two years the team wasn't turned around he'd be grabbing a pitchfork as well. We'll see.
These are kneejerk reactions from me. I know that. I'm a passionate fan and I'm upset, especially given the optimism I had going into this summer and the high of the Kings staying. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong either. I'll have plenty of time to see the "big picture" during the season and beyond, but right now I'm unhappy with the Evans trade, unhappy with the Landry signing, unhappy with the bungled Iguodala talks, unhappy with the reports of signing Ellis and unhappy with the lack of caproom & flexibility we are seeing be created while still lacking a starting SF.
Dave is right. This ownership group deserves two years to try and fix things. But they are making it very hard for me to give them that patience and support right now.
He also said that if in two years the team wasn't turned around he'd be grabbing a pitchfork as well. We'll see.
These are kneejerk reactions from me. I know that. I'm a passionate fan and I'm upset, especially given the optimism I had going into this summer and the high of the Kings staying. But that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong either. I'll have plenty of time to see the "big picture" during the season and beyond, but right now I'm unhappy with the Evans trade, unhappy with the Landry signing, unhappy with the bungled Iguodala talks, unhappy with the reports of signing Ellis and unhappy with the lack of caproom & flexibility we are seeing be created while still lacking a starting SF.
Dave is right. This ownership group deserves two years to try and fix things. But they are making it very hard for me to give them that patience and support right now.
i talk basketball with kf.com, my father, my wife, and a couple of my friends. but that's about it. and, given the manner in which i present any basketball-related argument, it's pretty easy to convince my father, my wife, and a couple of my friends to agree with me. kf.com is often a different story, but it's nice to know that there are others out there who feel as some of us here feel: a core of cousins/evans/mclemore had infinitely greater potential than what we're seeing the front office assemble as an alternative...
lilly ann frazier is a twitter hero, as far as i'm concerned. she's going to bat for those of us who aren't satisfied with a rudderless offseason when there were very obvious moves to make that could have pointed this team in the eventual direction of the playoffs, those of us who believe that we deserve a smart organization that is committed to building a winner. we are uninterested in novelty. we value defense, rebounding, efficiency, post scoring, and penetration, skillsets that are more likely to get you into the playoffs than any other...
it's incredibly insulting to me to insinuate that i should purchase season tickets before i'm considered a committed fan. i have an old, faded photograph dated november of 1992. i was sitting on my father's lap. we were watching a kings game. i was five years old. it's been over twenty years that i've followed this team, and there were a great many more losing seasons in that span than there were winning seasons...
as much as i didn't want the maloofs to uproot the kings that i love, i also don't want to be told that i should appreciate with unquestioning resolve that i even have a team to root for. i am a worthy evaluator of talent, and it is entirely within my province to call out a shoddy gameplan when i see it. kings fans have suffered through a lot of mismanagement and sabotage in the last decade, and we expected to see upward momentum when the book was finally closed on the maloof family's ownership of the franchise. there is an urgency among us, and it does not qualify as impatience to make our desires known...
lilly ann frazier is a twitter hero, as far as i'm concerned. she's going to bat for those of us who aren't satisfied with a rudderless offseason when there were very obvious moves to make that could have pointed this team in the eventual direction of the playoffs, those of us who believe that we deserve a smart organization that is committed to building a winner. we are uninterested in novelty. we value defense, rebounding, efficiency, post scoring, and penetration, skillsets that are more likely to get you into the playoffs than any other...
it's incredibly insulting to me to insinuate that i should purchase season tickets before i'm considered a committed fan. i have an old, faded photograph dated november of 1992. i was sitting on my father's lap. we were watching a kings game. i was five years old. it's been over twenty years that i've followed this team, and there were a great many more losing seasons in that span than there were winning seasons...
as much as i didn't want the maloofs to uproot the kings that i love, i also don't want to be told that i should appreciate with unquestioning resolve that i even have a team to root for. i am a worthy evaluator of talent, and it is entirely within my province to call out a shoddy gameplan when i see it. kings fans have suffered through a lot of mismanagement and sabotage in the last decade, and we expected to see upward momentum when the book was finally closed on the maloof family's ownership of the franchise. there is an urgency among us, and it does not qualify as impatience to make our desires known...
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Amen to that good sir! Being a season ticket holder shouldn't make you a better fan than others. I'm a season ticket holder myself but I don't brag about it in this forum because it is irrelevant to most of the topics on here. It shouldn't matter if you watch from STA or from home. A fan is a fan and everyone's opinions are equally important.
Now this is an interesting take:
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave 2m
“@KevinShockey: @CarmichaelDave the moment that there aren't sky is falling fans in ANY fanbase is a bad moment. Embrace it, I say.” Agreed
As Shockey said, and Dave agreed, some fans are complaining the sky is falling, but at least they still care enough to worry about it. Granted some people have gone off the deep end, but they're not out of the pool.
I LOVE THIS TEAM ... and I love this sometimes dysfunctional family we call Kingsfans.com
GO KINGS!!!
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave 2m
“@KevinShockey: @CarmichaelDave the moment that there aren't sky is falling fans in ANY fanbase is a bad moment. Embrace it, I say.” Agreed
As Shockey said, and Dave agreed, some fans are complaining the sky is falling, but at least they still care enough to worry about it. Granted some people have gone off the deep end, but they're not out of the pool.
I LOVE THIS TEAM ... and I love this sometimes dysfunctional family we call Kingsfans.com
GO KINGS!!!
Astute observation. Since you're into defining real fans on twitter, I'd say a real fan is someone willing to go beyond putting blind faith into any and every move this FO makes. A real fan is someone who cares enough to analyze the pros and cons of moves and potential moves. A real fan actually applies a little more thought into transactions of his/her team than, arguing to be patient and the "sky is falling" strawman crap counter rebuttal.
If you can support a single one of these moves without the stance that they simply require patience and/or be grateful Vivek saved the team, I'll be impressed. Remember Smart, Hayes, Salmons, Outlaw, trading Beno, TRob, signing Brooks? All we needed was patience then too, even though a number of us knew they were poor moves. When you and Napear have backed every move made the last few years and preached patience, you lose credibility when using that same argument once again.
Yes, free country and all.
If you can support a single one of these moves without the stance that they simply require patience and/or be grateful Vivek saved the team, I'll be impressed. Remember Smart, Hayes, Salmons, Outlaw, trading Beno, TRob, signing Brooks? All we needed was patience then too, even though a number of us knew they were poor moves. When you and Napear have backed every move made the last few years and preached patience, you lose credibility when using that same argument once again.
Yes, free country and all.
PG isaiah thomas
SG tyreke evans
SF john salmons
PF jason thompson
C demarcus cousins
they won 28 games with a PG who couldn't guard my grandma and a SF who regularly disappeared, statistically, for weeks at a time. matt barnes is a more than adequate ball handler and is perfectly capable of swinging the ball in a given offensive set, though he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. on top of that, he's as pesky a wing defender as you will find in this league. contrary to popular belief, evans can initiate the offense just fine, particularly when paired with shooters who can actually make use of his passes (instead of the john salmons' and james johnson's and omri casspi's of the league). the mock-lineup i presented is perfectly capable of winning more than 30 games with a head coach that places defense first...
kings fans really need to drop this scoring nonsense. a team that actively makes demarcus cousins its first option, tyreke evans its second option, and surrounds them with defensive roleplayers who can hit the occasional outside shot (mclemore and barnes) will score more than enough points to win games with defense. y'know, rather than loading up your rotation with chuckers and telling each player he has a green light to shoot. you always give yourself a better chance to win when you a) define roles and b) rely on defense. always.
SG tyreke evans
SF john salmons
PF jason thompson
C demarcus cousins
they won 28 games with a PG who couldn't guard my grandma and a SF who regularly disappeared, statistically, for weeks at a time. matt barnes is a more than adequate ball handler and is perfectly capable of swinging the ball in a given offensive set, though he doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective. on top of that, he's as pesky a wing defender as you will find in this league. contrary to popular belief, evans can initiate the offense just fine, particularly when paired with shooters who can actually make use of his passes (instead of the john salmons' and james johnson's and omri casspi's of the league). the mock-lineup i presented is perfectly capable of winning more than 30 games with a head coach that places defense first...
kings fans really need to drop this scoring nonsense. a team that actively makes demarcus cousins its first option, tyreke evans its second option, and surrounds them with defensive roleplayers who can hit the occasional outside shot (mclemore and barnes) will score more than enough points to win games with defense. y'know, rather than loading up your rotation with chuckers and telling each player he has a green light to shoot. you always give yourself a better chance to win when you a) define roles and b) rely on defense. always.
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There you go again screaming your superiority to the world. This "real fan" is utter nonsense. A fan is someone who supports their team in any capacity they wish. Real fan. Please
Dave already said Monta would be a bad move for the Kings. The difference is he's going to wait for some NBA basketball before lining up with pitchforks in front of PDA's house. Who knows, maybe Monta-Cousins becomes the next great duo in the NBA? It's not likely, but can you tell me with 100% certainty it won't be? No
Dave already said Monta would be a bad move for the Kings. The difference is he's going to wait for some NBA basketball before lining up with pitchforks in front of PDA's house. Who knows, maybe Monta-Cousins becomes the next great duo in the NBA? It's not likely, but can you tell me with 100% certainty it won't be? No
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