Kings vs. Suns Game Thread

S

sdballer

Starter
#31
#31
rainmaker said:
Plus Jimmer.

One game JJ plays backup 4, next starting SF, next still hasn't gotten in.

If you've played the game you know you rely on consistent rotations to get comfortable. You get used ot playing with the same guys when your're out there. Think anyone aside from Cuz has any clue when they're coming in and out, if they're starting or not, when they're getting subbed out and subbed back in, or know who's going to be on the floor with them?

There's a reason coaches like Sloan or PJax had pretty fixed rotations. It helps the players. They know what to expect day in, day out.
Click to expand...
I think it may be that some fans misunderstand that mental part of the game. They get fixated on concepts like players needing to earn spots, coaches dealing with the hands dealt and the creativity of trying different combos and while those all have a place underestimate the importance of consistency and clearly defined roles.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#33
#33
Entity said:
Ahh your talking about the starting lineups. Well I don't mind seeing IT or Brooks both getting a shot becaue honestly i can't decide which one I want starting at this point either. Also do i want MT starting at SG with johnson at SF or do i want Eveans and JJ or do i want MT and Evans at SF. Thompson and cousins are pretty much set with Robinson getting a few looks.

This is what preseason is for.
Click to expand...
Is that really what preseason is for? How many teams are changing their starting lineups at 2-3 positions every night?
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#34
#34
This is a not a playoff team that has been together for Years. there is only one staple on this team that I see. That is Demarcus Cousins. Now if we had success in the past with a starting 5 id say yeah leave those guys in they are the starters. we don't have that. in fact 2 brand new guys could be starters.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#36
#36
sdballer said:
I think it may be that some fans misunderstand that mental part of the game. They get fixated on concepts like players needing to earn spots, coaches dealing with the hands dealt and the creativity of trying different combos and while those all have a place underestimate the importance of consistency and clearly defined roles.
Click to expand...
Yeah. I'm not referring to MT is a SG so he's comfortable there, or IT/Brooks are PG's so they comfortable there. It goes a hell of a lot deeper than that. One game Brooks start next to Reke. Next game IT starts next to Reke, Brooks plays with MT off the bench. Then Brooks starts next to MT, and IT/Reke come off the bench. Then it's back to IT/Reke starting. Then tonight it's Brooks next to MT.

You prepare differently when starting vs not. You build chemistry with the guys next to you and it's tough when it's always changing. You get comfortable with the sub patterns, yet don't when they always change. I could go one and it effects a number of players on our team, but i think you and I agree and notice the same problem. It's preseason, but we don''t seem any closer to sorting this out.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#37
#37
Section 101 said:
How many teams have had 6 losing seasons and were the worst defensive team in the league?
Click to expand...
Well, that's not answering the question, which you dodged per usual. But, it's even more of a reason to have some kind of consistency instead of playing musical chairs every night. Which team ever recovered from such a poor 6 year stretch by approaching games this way?
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#38
#38
sdballer said:
Is that really what preseason is for? How many teams are changing their starting lineups at 2-3 positions every night?
Click to expand...
Probably every team that signed 2 potential starters and still have the 2 players at those postions that were starters last year. Most teams trade players and sign one and know who the starters are. Thomas and Evans started last year now we got JJ and Brooks. Thomas and Evans are still good players. Brooks and JJ are good players. you got to figure this stuff out.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#39
#39
Section 101 said:
How many teams have had 6 losing seasons and were the worst defensive team in the league?
Click to expand...
Is your point that we've sucked? I agree. You solve that with moves during the offseason to shore up needed roles. Then you work during the preseason and practice to get guys comfortable with roles, systems and teammates. You don't pick up random parts and then trot out different lineups hoping one sticks. Honestly, what is the coaching staff looking for that they will find by 5-8 minute stretches of playing random guys together. It's weak leadership, it lacks strategy and it's more likely to lead to confusion and bitterness than some magic cohesiveness.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#41
#41
Section 101 said:
How many teams have had 6 losing seasons and were the worst defensive team in the league?
Click to expand...
Is this in defense of the constant shuffling or an argument against? The core that you will rely on to improve their defense needs this time to play together and build chemistry. In order for that to happen, they need consistent minutes and rotations. We're wasting time otherwise.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#42
#42
Bah! You all are making the point faster than I can tonight. That's what I get for following along on my phone. :D
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#44
#44
you guys want continuity, cohesion, chemisty, and familiarity. But you don't like that answer to that because its tyreke starting at SF. that lineup won games last year. so was it a problem in the wins or just loses? was the loses because of lack of a bench? Some want Tyreke doing what he was doing his rookie year. thats not going to happen. Tyreke was all we had that year. Now we got Cousins, Thorton and to an extent Isiah. I think Tyreke is 3 option on this team now sometimes 2 that is why his numbers are going to be 20 pts a game anymore. 14-16 is gonna be his average on this team.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#45
#45
Entity said:
you guys want continuity, cohesion, chemisty, and familiarity. But you don't like that answer to that because its tyreke starting at SF. that lineup won games last year. so was it a problem in the wins or just loses? was the loses because of lack of a bench? Some want Tyreke doing what he was doing his rookie year. thats not going to happen. Tyreke was all we had that year. Now we got Cousins, Thorton and to an extent Isiah. I think Tyreke is 3 option on this team now sometimes 2 that is why his numbers are going to be 20 pts a game anymore. 14-16 is gonna be his average on this team.
Click to expand...
You're combining 2 separate issues. Yes, many people (myself included) don't think Evans at the 3 makes sense. That is different than not using the preseason to try and get this team ready for the regular season. They've basically just combined 2 potential problems without really solving either.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#46
#46
Entity said:
you guys want continuity, cohesion, chemisty, and familiarity. But you don't like that answer to that because its tyreke starting at SF. that lineup won games last year. so was it a problem in the wins or just loses? was the loses because of lack of a bench? Some want Tyreke doing what he was doing his rookie year. thats not going to happen. Tyreke was all we had that year. Now we got Cousins, Thorton and to an extent Isiah. I think Tyreke is 3 option on this team now sometimes 2 that is why his numbers are going to be 20 pts a game anymore. 14-16 is gonna be his average on this team.
Click to expand...
I'm on my phone, so can't really get into this again, but I'm pretty sure Evans at PG won more (better games) than Evans at SF. Sure, we scored more, but that's about it.
 
G

Goo

G-League
#47
#47
By looking at the box score we played 15 guys before the half, it must be some kind of record. Amazing.
And Reke is still the starting SF.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#48
#48
Entity said:
you guys want continuity, cohesion, chemisty, and familiarity. But you don't like that answer to that because its tyreke starting at SF. that lineup won games last year. so was it a problem in the wins or just loses? was the loses because of lack of a bench? Some want Tyreke doing what he was doing his rookie year. thats not going to happen. Tyreke was all we had that year. Now we got Cousins, Thorton and to an extent Isiah. I think Tyreke is 3 option on this team now sometimes 2 that is why his numbers are going to be 20 pts a game anymore. 14-16 is gonna be his average on this team.
Click to expand...
Also, I think we won 6 games total with reke starting at sf last year so we really need to watch this we need him at sf because we were so much better business.
 
S

spudfan

Starter
#49
#49
Goo said:
By looking at the box score we played 15 guys before the half, it must be some kind of record. Amazing.
And Reke is still the starting SF.
Click to expand...
I just don't get it. There is plenty of time in practice to see who can play and who can't. I don't see why you squander a good opportunity to test your lineups against other teams before the games go on your record. How is playing Jimmer-Outlaw-Johnson-Thompson-Hayes at the same time in anyway useful to us? Playing 15 different guys.... :confused:
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#50
#50
I think you got to know what the team is before you can get it ready. I mean I am sure you got your opinion of who the starting PG should be but I really am undecided. as far as Reke at SF goes I am ok with it because he put up almost exact same numbers last year as he did in the ROY campain year. I am also ok with JJ starting at SF with MT or Evans at SG. which do I like best I am not sure. Niether is this coaching staff that is why you are seeing this. It takes more than 4-5 games
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#52
#52
Spike said:
I'm on my phone, so can't really get into this again, but I'm pretty sure Evans at PG won more (better games) than Evans at SF. Sure, we scored more, but that's about it.
Click to expand...
We did alright with Reke at point under Smart last year and Reke was playing well at point. We didn't win more once he was switched to SF. With him at SF, and a more talented team than his rookie year, we won at about the same rate as when he was point as a rookie on a considerably less talented team. There's really nothing to suggest we're better with Reke at SF.
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#53
#53
I think this is called last look before cuts coming soon. Some of those guys might be playing to see who packs their bags. Last game will probably feature more of the set rotation. But shorter minutes.
 
HereWeBoogie

HereWeBoogie

Hall of Famer
#54
#54
spudfan said:
I just don't get it. There is plenty of time in practice to see who can play and who can't. I don't see why you squander a good opportunity to test your lineups against other teams before the games go on your record. How is playing Jimmer-Outlaw-Johnson-Thompson-Hayes at the same time in anyway useful to us? Playing 15 different guys.... :confused:
Click to expand...

thats how i feel. this is ridiculous. the last 2 games of the preseason is time to start testing your regular season rotations
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#55
#55
Entity said:
I think you got to know what the team is before you can get it ready. I mean I am sure you got your opinion of who the starting PG should be but I really am undecided. as far as Reke at SF goes I am ok with it because he put up almost exact same numbers last year as he did in the ROY campain year. I am also ok with JJ starting at SF with MT or Evans at SG. which do I like best I am not sure. Niether is this coaching staff that is why you are seeing this. It takes more than 4-5 games
Click to expand...
It takes more than 20 if you do it this way. Switching lineups constantly doesn't show you what you have to work with because the players involved never have a chance to gel. You need to pick a lineup that you mostly stick with and then make small adjustments.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#56
#56
sdballer said:
We went 8-11 last year with a starting backcourt of Evans/Thornton and the usual crap sf plus weak bench. Why not start there with a few tweaks.
Click to expand...
what was our record with Thomas/MT/Evans/JT/Cuz also when looking at that record think of the bench. an injured Hayes, a lost Jimmer, Cisco, Salmons and Outlaw.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#58
#58
sdballer said:
It takes more than 20 if you do it this way. Switching lineups constantly doesn't show you what you have to work with because the players involved never have a chance to gel. You need to pick a lineup that you mostly stick with and then make small adjustments.
Click to expand...
I am guessing the process of picking that lineup is still underway. again I am undecided which i would want as well. This is not a playoff team from last year. We finally got pieces that can work now you just got to put those pieces together. It takes longer than 4-5 games. if it takes 20 so be it we are still better off than what we were without those pieces.
 
S

spudfan

Starter
#59
#59
JB_kings said:
I think this is called last look before cuts coming soon. Some of those guys might be playing to see who packs their bags. Last game will probably feature more of the set rotation. But shorter minutes.
Click to expand...
I would be shocked if they can't tell from practice who is going to get cut. It normally is pretty clear who can hang and who can't. If anything it's being charitable and letting guys get some minutes before they are released.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#60
#60
Spike said:
Is this in defense of the constant shuffling or an argument against? The core that you will rely on to improve their defense needs this time to play together and build chemistry. In order for that to happen, they need consistent minutes and rotations. We're wasting time otherwise.
Click to expand...
And it's only 48 minutes. They work on it more in practice. He needs to figure out who the core will be before settling on a line up. It's an open competition for every position except center at this point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.