Balancing the First and Second Units
- Thread starter Jdbraver137
- Start date
It was noticeable Domas was trying to increase the pace while dribbling from the backcourt for the last two games. Our offensive flow was nonexistent when the ball slowed/stopped giving the opposing defense to settle. Perhaps Deebo off the bench and in crunch time could work.
If the offense clicks, it should counterbalance some defensive collapses.
If the offense clicks, it should counterbalance some defensive collapses.
I wonder what a distribution like this would look? Still giving the big contracts the lions share, but working in solid minutes for young defensive talent.
Monk 34
Lavine 32
Demar 32
Keegan 34
Domas 32
Keon 22
LaRavia 18
JV 16
Trey 10
Carter 10
Keeping Keegan at 34, and Keon at 22 gives some good overlap between them for defense. We can have our offensive death lineup (starters), but then you can have your defensive death lineup:
Carter
Keon
LaRavia
Keegan
JV (not amazing defender, but can hide him a bit with the rest)
That puts 4 defenders on the court, all of which are capable of knocking down a 3. Shot creation could be the issue with this lineup, but you could bring either of Monk/Lavine in place of Carter for a downhill threat. If teams try to run us off the 3, Keegs has shown he can get downhill, too.
Monk 34
Lavine 32
Demar 32
Keegan 34
Domas 32
Keon 22
LaRavia 18
JV 16
Trey 10
Carter 10
Keeping Keegan at 34, and Keon at 22 gives some good overlap between them for defense. We can have our offensive death lineup (starters), but then you can have your defensive death lineup:
Carter
Keon
LaRavia
Keegan
JV (not amazing defender, but can hide him a bit with the rest)
That puts 4 defenders on the court, all of which are capable of knocking down a 3. Shot creation could be the issue with this lineup, but you could bring either of Monk/Lavine in place of Carter for a downhill threat. If teams try to run us off the 3, Keegs has shown he can get downhill, too.
As I don’t get the exposure to Kings play as most of you and there appears to be a need for a backup facilitator behind Monk, a question.
Does Carter or Ellis show more natural ability to fill that need. Both obviously top talent defenders, Ellis is bigger and can hit his shots. Carter Im a bit concerned about right now unless he can develop into a reliable bench lead guard.
As there are only so many minutes to go around, ideally at least one of them could step in to the roll instead of looking for another option.
Does Carter or Ellis show more natural ability to fill that need. Both obviously top talent defenders, Ellis is bigger and can hit his shots. Carter Im a bit concerned about right now unless he can develop into a reliable bench lead guard.
As there are only so many minutes to go around, ideally at least one of them could step in to the roll instead of looking for another option.
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Here's the question:
How much time and energy are we going to commit to worrying about a play-in team?
It's already over for this year, the remaining question to be answered is whether this group will manage to maintain their tenuous grip on the 9th or 10th seed and an outside chance at getting to lose a full playoff series or if even that is being optimistic. I don't think it's a question worth answering.
Maybe instead of begging to be the first team eliminated from the post-season we should look at what's next. DeMar DeRozan is 35 -- he no longer fits the timeline here. Malik Monk and Zach LaVine can't defend anyone. As long as they're in the starting lineup our ceiling caps out at mediocre. They all need to be traded as soon as possible. Unfortunately we're past the trade deadline so Doug Christie has to roll with this team and I think it might cost him his job.
Personally I wouldn't worry that much about balance at this point. My goal would be to lose enough to keep my draft pick, trade LaVine (for cap space ideally) as soon as the season is over, and then see if Monk and DeMar have enough value to net us a young plus defender at any position. There is a chance for Monte to save face here but only if he works quickly to unmake what he just made.
I'm intrigued by the Fultz signing so let's start there. Markelle Fultz, Keon Ellis, and Keegan Murray makes for a good defensive foundation at the 1-2-3. Sabonis isn't a standout defender but he is an exceptional rebounder and he can space the floor now. Put a defensive anchor next to him and I think that's a solid starting unit. Mark Williams' value has to be at rock bottom, maybe he's a target for us. He's not Ben Wallace or anything but he is huge so guys aren't just going to be able to go right at him in the paint. We're not winning the 3pt war with this lineup but I contend that the end goal isn't to have the best shooting lineup on the floor every night it's simply to make sure that your squad wins their minutes. How they do it is irrelevant.
The bench unit is going to be Carter at PG, LaRavia at SF, I. Jones at PF, and Valanciunas at C. I'd still like to get a plus defender at the 2/3 position and another one at the 3/4 position to compliment them for situational assignments. We'd have two draft picks this year (the CHI 2nd rounder and our own top 12 protected first rounder) plus whatever we can get for LaVine, Monk, and DeRozan to fill those holes.
We get younger, much better defensively, and we can cast off the ghost of this lost season all in one summer.
How much time and energy are we going to commit to worrying about a play-in team?
It's already over for this year, the remaining question to be answered is whether this group will manage to maintain their tenuous grip on the 9th or 10th seed and an outside chance at getting to lose a full playoff series or if even that is being optimistic. I don't think it's a question worth answering.
Maybe instead of begging to be the first team eliminated from the post-season we should look at what's next. DeMar DeRozan is 35 -- he no longer fits the timeline here. Malik Monk and Zach LaVine can't defend anyone. As long as they're in the starting lineup our ceiling caps out at mediocre. They all need to be traded as soon as possible. Unfortunately we're past the trade deadline so Doug Christie has to roll with this team and I think it might cost him his job.
Personally I wouldn't worry that much about balance at this point. My goal would be to lose enough to keep my draft pick, trade LaVine (for cap space ideally) as soon as the season is over, and then see if Monk and DeMar have enough value to net us a young plus defender at any position. There is a chance for Monte to save face here but only if he works quickly to unmake what he just made.
I'm intrigued by the Fultz signing so let's start there. Markelle Fultz, Keon Ellis, and Keegan Murray makes for a good defensive foundation at the 1-2-3. Sabonis isn't a standout defender but he is an exceptional rebounder and he can space the floor now. Put a defensive anchor next to him and I think that's a solid starting unit. Mark Williams' value has to be at rock bottom, maybe he's a target for us. He's not Ben Wallace or anything but he is huge so guys aren't just going to be able to go right at him in the paint. We're not winning the 3pt war with this lineup but I contend that the end goal isn't to have the best shooting lineup on the floor every night it's simply to make sure that your squad wins their minutes. How they do it is irrelevant.
The bench unit is going to be Carter at PG, LaRavia at SF, I. Jones at PF, and Valanciunas at C. I'd still like to get a plus defender at the 2/3 position and another one at the 3/4 position to compliment them for situational assignments. We'd have two draft picks this year (the CHI 2nd rounder and our own top 12 protected first rounder) plus whatever we can get for LaVine, Monk, and DeRozan to fill those holes.
We get younger, much better defensively, and we can cast off the ghost of this lost season all in one summer.
None of this is happening Lavine won’t be and shouldn’t be traded he’s a 24-4-4 all star with elite shooting you keep him. The problem is not having another defender next to Keegan if we had a wing defender starting in place of Derozan we would be fine. Instead we have two non defenders on DD and monk and atleast monk tries, this recipe would be fine with AD or Gobert at center but we have Sabonis. Trading derozan for Cam Johnson would even work an elite shooter who is average to good defender and can score without being ball dominant
Fultz is certainly an intriguing signing, but with his injury history, you simply cannot pencil him in as a long-term solution at the starting PG spot. The Kings are taking a flyer on him since they're now thin at PG, but I don't imagine anybody's thinking he's going to log a ton of minutes.
DDR is not long for this team given his age and the fit/balance issues presently on the roster, but there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Malik's locked up on a great deal, and he's also a locker room lynchpin for these Kings. Remove his positivity and his leadership, and the whole thing could crumble. I'm not sure you need to trade him. I'm not sure you should, either. That said, he should either be returned to his sixth man role or he should be starting alongside a much more impactful defender... like Keon Ellis.
The problem, ultimately, is LaVine. Monte wanted a "win now" piece back in the Fox trade, and unless you're confident enough in LaVine as a starting PG, the Kings are in a serious bind right now when it comes to balance in their rotation. Monk/Ellis works for offensive/defensive balance. And LaVine/Ellis could also work for offensive/defensive balance, but I don't really trust LaVine as a primary ballhandler. You'd really need LaVine and Domas to develop some playmaking chemistry in the off-season to have faith that the offense would hum reasonably well. Otherwise, you could conceivably trade LaVine, but it's hard to imagine anybody else wanting to absorb his contract, even with only two years remaining.
In other words, I have no idea what Monte's going to do moving forward, but I do not envy the task in front of him. He's got to figure out how to make sense of this weird roster, while also deciding on a long-term head coaching solution. Doug's been a loyal soldier, but does he have the locker room? And does he keep the locker room when the hard decisions have to be made about who starts and who sits? Does Monte McNair believe in Doug with the need to make those decisions fast approaching? And if not, who could the Kings conceivably hire that would be worth the cost of ripping up the playbooks and starting over?
DDR is not long for this team given his age and the fit/balance issues presently on the roster, but there's no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. Malik's locked up on a great deal, and he's also a locker room lynchpin for these Kings. Remove his positivity and his leadership, and the whole thing could crumble. I'm not sure you need to trade him. I'm not sure you should, either. That said, he should either be returned to his sixth man role or he should be starting alongside a much more impactful defender... like Keon Ellis.
The problem, ultimately, is LaVine. Monte wanted a "win now" piece back in the Fox trade, and unless you're confident enough in LaVine as a starting PG, the Kings are in a serious bind right now when it comes to balance in their rotation. Monk/Ellis works for offensive/defensive balance. And LaVine/Ellis could also work for offensive/defensive balance, but I don't really trust LaVine as a primary ballhandler. You'd really need LaVine and Domas to develop some playmaking chemistry in the off-season to have faith that the offense would hum reasonably well. Otherwise, you could conceivably trade LaVine, but it's hard to imagine anybody else wanting to absorb his contract, even with only two years remaining.
In other words, I have no idea what Monte's going to do moving forward, but I do not envy the task in front of him. He's got to figure out how to make sense of this weird roster, while also deciding on a long-term head coaching solution. Doug's been a loyal soldier, but does he have the locker room? And does he keep the locker room when the hard decisions have to be made about who starts and who sits? Does Monte McNair believe in Doug with the need to make those decisions fast approaching? And if not, who could the Kings conceivably hire that would be worth the cost of ripping up the playbooks and starting over?
I think this is the experiment they need to run the rest of the season. Either it works, and you feel good enough about the core to let it ride the next two years while everyone is under contract. Or it doesn’t, you keep your pick, and look to make more drastic moves on the offseason.
Edit to add: it’s too bad Ben Simmons went to the clippers, because he actually could have fit as a lead ball handler on offense and a big wing defender between Sabonis and Keegan on defense.
Edit to add: it’s too bad Ben Simmons went to the clippers, because he actually could have fit as a lead ball handler on offense and a big wing defender between Sabonis and Keegan on defense.
I honestly feel like if you just move DDR to the bench and slide in Keon, you are in a decent spot for the rest of this season to see how we do. Unfortunately, it won't happen because of egos and salaries.
Maybe this is a hot take, but I don't think DDR makes us a better team. There's no doubt he has carried us to a win multiple times this season but overall, he changed the flow of the offense to ISO ball far too often, his defense is atrocious and he just doesn't put in any effort on that end to the point where he essentially needs to score 30+ to make up for it. I'm confident we'd be better overall with Keon in the starting 5.
I like watching defense and trying to figure out what went wrong when opponents get open shots. For those brave enough to watch the recording that want examples, here are just a few from Demar last night... the first half of the first quarter alone...
[Time left on the game clock]
And there are plenty more every game, every quarter.
It just isn't acceptable for a team trying to compete for a playoff spot.
You need more than 1 person capable of playing defense in your starting 5. Otherwise, you're basically flipping a coin hoping your shots fall that night and you can outscore the other team or you fall into a hole to start the game you have to try to dig out of.
Maybe this is a hot take, but I don't think DDR makes us a better team. There's no doubt he has carried us to a win multiple times this season but overall, he changed the flow of the offense to ISO ball far too often, his defense is atrocious and he just doesn't put in any effort on that end to the point where he essentially needs to score 30+ to make up for it. I'm confident we'd be better overall with Keon in the starting 5.
I like watching defense and trying to figure out what went wrong when opponents get open shots. For those brave enough to watch the recording that want examples, here are just a few from Demar last night... the first half of the first quarter alone...
[Time left on the game clock]
- [11:10] - You know how you closeout when playing against your little sibling and you want to pretend you're trying to play defense/block their shot? That is exactly how Demar closes out here... no attempt to contest... (made 3pt) Side note: he does this other times in the game too, I noted one specifically in Q4 on a make.
- [10:36] - Just doesn't pay attention to Alvarado and lets him dribble right by him to the hoop (make)
- [9:52] - This one is actually on Sabonis, but shows how bad their defense is and how we gave them multiple open shooters while 2 guys guarded no one. Sabonis points to DDR to take the guy to the corner, DDR runs to the basket for some reason. Sabonis, then doesn't cover Alvarado, after telling DDR to switch and it results in an open 3pt shot (made)
- [9:26] - Let's Murphy dribble right by him without any resistance. Leaves Murray try to rotate over last second. Murray picks up the foul when Murphy trips. (FTs)
- [7:20] - Leaves his guy, walks back into the paint for no reason, they get an open 3 (miss)
And there are plenty more every game, every quarter.
It just isn't acceptable for a team trying to compete for a playoff spot.
You need more than 1 person capable of playing defense in your starting 5. Otherwise, you're basically flipping a coin hoping your shots fall that night and you can outscore the other team or you fall into a hole to start the game you have to try to dig out of.
!!!!!
And how valuable can his offense be every fourth quarter we go away from anything that’s working to spam his iso post ups that rarely result in a pass to a teammate. Lavine was red hot and got shut out in the fourth not by NO but by the damn offense saying that nonsense. This is every game too the second the fourth starts
And how valuable can his offense be every fourth quarter we go away from anything that’s working to spam his iso post ups that rarely result in a pass to a teammate. Lavine was red hot and got shut out in the fourth not by NO but by the damn offense saying that nonsense. This is every game too the second the fourth starts
Really agreed here. LaVine/Ellis/Simmons/Murray/Sabonis is actually a starting unit I could believe in. In a lot of ways, Simmons actually feels a bit like a Rosetta stone that unlocks the Kings' roster as it currently stands. He can't shoot, and he's generally uninterested in scoring, but alongside those other four, he'd be a nearly perfect complementary piece. It's a shame basketball tends not to come first for that guy; he needs to live in a larger market for "lifestyle reasons", or whatever. But man, a big, strong wing defender who is an excellent playmaker and doesn't need shots to be happy? I would have reevaluated the whole trade deadline for the Kings if Monte had managed to snag Simmons off the buyout heap.
2 things stick out to me
- Monk played his most impactful and consistent ball at PG when he started with Ellis
- Need to limit the time Monk/Lavine/Deebo are on the court together... after 5 (?) games they are still tripping over each other
With the additions of LaRavia & Fultz and including Ellis, I think there is a 5-6 man rotation in there somewhere that's worth exploring at least for the remainder of this season.. It only gets hard to work out when you take egos, people wanting to start/finish and salaries into account.
I've missed the start of last 3 games so not sure if this has been tried already... But I wonder if the short term answer (again, just to get through this season) isn't just an early substitution.
Let Monk start to not disrupt ego or his much needed energy and positivity around the team (which I think this team really needs).... And the just pull him early at the 8 or 9 min mark.
From then just have only ever have 2 of monk/zach/Deebo on the floor at any one time, combined with Ellis, Fultz and Laravia
End of games, same deal... The odd man out between ZL / Deebo / Monk is whoever doesn't have it going that night, match ups etc. Just keep it fair and hopefully have less impact on egos, we win a few games and everyone buys in
If it doesn't work out then in the offseason, I'm open to anything happening.. This year has been too disappointing to just rinse & repeat.
- Monk played his most impactful and consistent ball at PG when he started with Ellis
- Need to limit the time Monk/Lavine/Deebo are on the court together... after 5 (?) games they are still tripping over each other
With the additions of LaRavia & Fultz and including Ellis, I think there is a 5-6 man rotation in there somewhere that's worth exploring at least for the remainder of this season.. It only gets hard to work out when you take egos, people wanting to start/finish and salaries into account.
I've missed the start of last 3 games so not sure if this has been tried already... But I wonder if the short term answer (again, just to get through this season) isn't just an early substitution.
Let Monk start to not disrupt ego or his much needed energy and positivity around the team (which I think this team really needs).... And the just pull him early at the 8 or 9 min mark.
From then just have only ever have 2 of monk/zach/Deebo on the floor at any one time, combined with Ellis, Fultz and Laravia
End of games, same deal... The odd man out between ZL / Deebo / Monk is whoever doesn't have it going that night, match ups etc. Just keep it fair and hopefully have less impact on egos, we win a few games and everyone buys in
If it doesn't work out then in the offseason, I'm open to anything happening.. This year has been too disappointing to just rinse & repeat.
When it comes to the NBA I think it’s really hard to find players who can fill it up like a Lavine, Deebo and Monk. That being said, and as others have mentioned, they can’t be on the floor together for long stretches. Not enough defense on the floor
Personally think Christie needs to say eff it and mix in LaRavia with Keon and Keegan as the 3 defensive pieces who get quite a bit of minutes. I also think JV is better than Domas on D so increase his time a bit. Fultz is a wild card right now.
Reduce the minutes of the 3 offensive studs, stagger them and I think this team is better than a play in. Otherwise, just won’t lead to anything better.
Personally think Christie needs to say eff it and mix in LaRavia with Keon and Keegan as the 3 defensive pieces who get quite a bit of minutes. I also think JV is better than Domas on D so increase his time a bit. Fultz is a wild card right now.
Reduce the minutes of the 3 offensive studs, stagger them and I think this team is better than a play in. Otherwise, just won’t lead to anything better.
Someone needs to just say I'll put my ego aside for the good of the team. Probably Deebo especially if you can sell him on being the clutch delivery guy. I didn't watch last night and I know everyone is down on his performance but he's contributed to winning more games than he has lost us in the final minutes. Sell him on reduced minutes so he can be that guy at the end of a game.
I like Deebo and I wanted him here this summer when the goal was to keep up with the Western Conference arms race but I feel like the ship sailed on his tenure here the minute Fox got traded. No one else seems to be with me yet (and it will likely take the Kings front office another 2-3 years to figure this out) but I think the ship has also sailed on the Malik Monk era in Sacramento. It's nothing personal. I love both of these dudes as people (to the extent that their personalities can be gleaned from interviews and) and I still like them as basketball players but they just don't fit what we're trying to do anymore. It's as much for their sake as ours that I want to see them traded.
I've been watching LaVine since UCLA -- rarely have I seen a player less interested in playing defense. Expecting some kind of light bulb to click on for him at age 30 is wishful thinking in the extreme. Some might argue that we can live with a non-defender who fills up the stat sheet in other ways but let's really think about how teams play offense in the current NBA. We have all watched other teams use picks to matchup hunt whichever defender they want to target. We have all watched the Kings (and really this applies to every NBA team) play 22 seconds of good defense only to give up an open 3 because 1 guy missed their 4th or 5th rotation on the same play.
I have no control over the roster, all I can do is watch and whinge (the usual Kings fan posture) but if someone listened to me just once I would tell them that there's only 1 formula for becoming a good to great defensive team: no weak links. It's not about effort or scheme... well it is to a certain extent... but that's at most 10% of the equation. The other 90% is really easy -- just put good defenders on the floor and stop putting them in impossible situations by asking them to cover for bad ones.
@Padrino You're right that Fultz is an injury risk. Whatever is going on with his knee and his shoulder have likely ruined his chances of ever being a star NBA player and maybe even a rotation regular. I'm fine taking that risk as a short-term salve because the alternative is to continue forward with a strategy that can only lead to what I regard as unwatchable and ineffective basketball. He's there to defend and run the offense, not put up points. Ellis and Murray are the finishers with Sabonis as a top of the key playmaker and someone like a Mark Williams as a paint crasher, screen setter, and lob threat. And if it doesn't work out, well then we're a 17 win team with a chance at another franchise player in the draft. In either case I think this is a better course of action than wasting the next 3 years in no man's land with no cap space or chance of ever getting to be a top 4 seed again.
I've been watching LaVine since UCLA -- rarely have I seen a player less interested in playing defense. Expecting some kind of light bulb to click on for him at age 30 is wishful thinking in the extreme. Some might argue that we can live with a non-defender who fills up the stat sheet in other ways but let's really think about how teams play offense in the current NBA. We have all watched other teams use picks to matchup hunt whichever defender they want to target. We have all watched the Kings (and really this applies to every NBA team) play 22 seconds of good defense only to give up an open 3 because 1 guy missed their 4th or 5th rotation on the same play.
I have no control over the roster, all I can do is watch and whinge (the usual Kings fan posture) but if someone listened to me just once I would tell them that there's only 1 formula for becoming a good to great defensive team: no weak links. It's not about effort or scheme... well it is to a certain extent... but that's at most 10% of the equation. The other 90% is really easy -- just put good defenders on the floor and stop putting them in impossible situations by asking them to cover for bad ones.
@Padrino You're right that Fultz is an injury risk. Whatever is going on with his knee and his shoulder have likely ruined his chances of ever being a star NBA player and maybe even a rotation regular. I'm fine taking that risk as a short-term salve because the alternative is to continue forward with a strategy that can only lead to what I regard as unwatchable and ineffective basketball. He's there to defend and run the offense, not put up points. Ellis and Murray are the finishers with Sabonis as a top of the key playmaker and someone like a Mark Williams as a paint crasher, screen setter, and lob threat. And if it doesn't work out, well then we're a 17 win team with a chance at another franchise player in the draft. In either case I think this is a better course of action than wasting the next 3 years in no man's land with no cap space or chance of ever getting to be a top 4 seed again.
Why do you think monks time is up?
I think trading Derozan, Carter, and 2-4 first round picks for embiid or Zion is the way to go. Forget whatever we’re doing right now being a 8-10 seeded team every year most likely not and 8th seed at that. Take a flyer on embiid or Zion who I like better and improves the ceiling of the team. If Zion hits then we can make deep playoff runs
I think trading Derozan, Carter, and 2-4 first round picks for embiid or Zion is the way to go. Forget whatever we’re doing right now being a 8-10 seeded team every year most likely not and 8th seed at that. Take a flyer on embiid or Zion who I like better and improves the ceiling of the team. If Zion hits then we can make deep playoff runs
Because I think the Kings as an organization have passed the point of no return with moving him back to the bench. If they haven't done it by now, they're not going to do it. And while I love what Monk brings to the table as an offensive spark plug and x-factor off the bench, I don't think his playmaking or defense are consistently there at the level that is expected of an NBA starter on a playoff team. His enthusiasm has been refreshing the past few years on a team of mostly flat personalities -- the man truly plays the game with joy and abandon. But he's also reckless and undisciplined and as long as he's installed as the lead playmaker, this team will continue to play in a reckless and undisciplined manner.
Additionally, we have to consider trade value. While DeRozan is on a pretty good contract, his age and the league-wide obsession with floor spacing is going to depress what anyone is willing to offer for him. LaVine is a guy who looks valuable on paper and yet nobody seemed to want him last summer because he's a ball stopper who doesn't defend. He really only makes sense on a team with a short win-now timeline who can pick him up for nothing. And then there's his salary which makes him negative value unless you think he's going to make your team better. He won't. Of the three, Monk is the one guy we can trade who might actually get us something in return. And we'll probably have to package one of DeRozan or LaVine with Monk just to get them off the roster.
In this case, as Kings fans I think we need to love Monk enough to set him free. Excellent work my friend, you'll always be in our hearts. I'm sorry things didn't work out for the Beam Team.
Additionally, we have to consider trade value. While DeRozan is on a pretty good contract, his age and the league-wide obsession with floor spacing is going to depress what anyone is willing to offer for him. LaVine is a guy who looks valuable on paper and yet nobody seemed to want him last summer because he's a ball stopper who doesn't defend. He really only makes sense on a team with a short win-now timeline who can pick him up for nothing. And then there's his salary which makes him negative value unless you think he's going to make your team better. He won't. Of the three, Monk is the one guy we can trade who might actually get us something in return. And we'll probably have to package one of DeRozan or LaVine with Monk just to get them off the roster.
In this case, as Kings fans I think we need to love Monk enough to set him free. Excellent work my friend, you'll always be in our hearts. I'm sorry things didn't work out for the Beam Team.
If it was up to me we would ride out the season as is with adjustments made to rotations (trying to be realistic). Then in the offseason I’d look to make bigger changes.
1) I really like Doug so we will see what happens but I would at least consider opening the search.
2) Trade Deebo. Like Hrdboild I loved the signing but that was with Keon and Keegan starting around Fox, Deebo and Domas. Obviously the calculus has changed. I did a quick analysis of rosters and had a hard time finding a trade partner for Deebo. The best fit imo was Miami. They have had interest, want to win now and have some pieces that make sense for us. I think Jaime Jaquez and Duncan Robinson (for salary) plus a second would be fair. We get a young cost controlled versatile wing and an expiring (that can shoot) that could be traded without giving up draft capital.
I like Lavine and think he could be a good fit here as a shooter and slasher. Transition monster.
let’s see what Fultz looks like but at 26 he could be a piece worth considering if cheap.
I love Carter and still think he will be a stud and potential starter.
I’m expecting and frankly wanting our pick to convey. Be gone! Cleans up the books. In the second round I’ll take Will Riley if he is still there or JoJo Tugler ( Monte would take Riley)
Monk Fultz
Keon Carter
Lavine Jaquez
Keegan Robinson
Domas JV
I want Laravia back but if we got Jaquez we likely wouldn’t re-sign him.
Riley or Tugler, IJ and Crawford for developmental pieces
6 firsts and A handful of seconds to trade.
1) I really like Doug so we will see what happens but I would at least consider opening the search.
2) Trade Deebo. Like Hrdboild I loved the signing but that was with Keon and Keegan starting around Fox, Deebo and Domas. Obviously the calculus has changed. I did a quick analysis of rosters and had a hard time finding a trade partner for Deebo. The best fit imo was Miami. They have had interest, want to win now and have some pieces that make sense for us. I think Jaime Jaquez and Duncan Robinson (for salary) plus a second would be fair. We get a young cost controlled versatile wing and an expiring (that can shoot) that could be traded without giving up draft capital.
I like Lavine and think he could be a good fit here as a shooter and slasher. Transition monster.
let’s see what Fultz looks like but at 26 he could be a piece worth considering if cheap.
I love Carter and still think he will be a stud and potential starter.
I’m expecting and frankly wanting our pick to convey. Be gone! Cleans up the books. In the second round I’ll take Will Riley if he is still there or JoJo Tugler ( Monte would take Riley)
Monk Fultz
Keon Carter
Lavine Jaquez
Keegan Robinson
Domas JV
I want Laravia back but if we got Jaquez we likely wouldn’t re-sign him.
Riley or Tugler, IJ and Crawford for developmental pieces
6 firsts and A handful of seconds to trade.
well said. I want to add that since the sole playoff appearance, it's been nothing but patch work for a sinking ship. Firing a coach because players didn't like being held accountable or were possibly being over trained in practices when there should of been rest days. Prior to the firing however, not sure why Monte would bring a guy like DeRozan along when Fox and Monk are heavy usage players to begin with. Did he really think DeRozan was going to help propel the Kings when we've seen his career in Toronto, San Antonio & Chicago? Sabonis cannot be your best player if you want consecutive Playoff appearances. He is getting paid like he is, the numbers are there which look nice on his basketball resume and box scores but so long as he is here, this is a hamster wheel squad. I have no reason to believe Vivek will stand for a rebuild, maybe things change in a year plus after all these failed attempts at making the Playoffs and losing in the play-in or just coming up short.
You can reasonably make the case Keon is our most impactful 2-way player. Which is why I hated the Fox trade in it just blocked Keon from getting the minutes he earned.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=GP*G*10&TeamID=1610612758&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced?CF=GP*G*10&TeamID=1610612758&dir=A&sort=NET_RATING
Right now it looks like we are trending towards a play-in exit and loosing our draft pick. When Monte was hired and refused to pick a direction with “all options open” I said we were in trouble….
5 years later this is what trouble looks like…
5 years later this is what trouble looks like…
- Lost our most valuable player
- No pick in a good draft this year and a bad swap in 31
- Still have an unbalanced undersized roster
- 22nd oldest roster average age by usage (it will get worse as Lavine plays)
Roster construction is terrible it’s just bad why would anyone think derozan, Monk, and Lavine can play together. They you add in Sabonis,why are you building the roster like you have elite rim protection when you don’t.
Yet!?? Are you expecting Monte to fix it or is he getting fired. We’ve had the same weakness for 5+ years and his answer to it was Jalen McDaniels. He literally said we fixed it by that signing
Yet!?? Are you expecting Monte to fix it or is he getting fired. We’ve had the same weakness for 5+ years and his answer to it was Jalen McDaniels. He literally said we fixed it by that signing
This team has some serious dilemma. You can't sit Lavine or DeRozen because they're not going to be happy. Plus, why should they? Kings need their offense anyway. You can't sit Monk because the Kings bread and butter move is Monk and Sabonis. You can't take Keegan out because of his size and ability to shoot. I don't anticipate the Kings do anything to the lineup UNTIL there is a losing trench. And if we happened to miss the Playoffs, I expect someone in the starting lineup to get traded for someone that actually help out defensive beside offense. A PF upgrade and move Keegan to SF could help the starting lineup. I just think Keegan is too soft. They could trade either Lavine or DeRozen to upgrade the PF position.
If we really want to continue to win now (and by all accounts, that’s what Vivek wants to do), then we need to recognize that nobody on this roster is good enough to be the #1 guy on a top shelf team (or at least has the potential to be).
With Fox, we at least could squint a little and say he has the potential to be a #1 guy. We all saw flashes of it and just hoped he’d be more consistent, find a way to play angry all the time, etc., but this team no longer has a player that at least gives us that “hope.” That’s a big issue to have for a “win now” team as those players are rare and often harder to acquire.
So without bottoming out/tanking, how do we acquire a player who is…
Yes, he’s a huge injury risk, but our options are limited if we want to take a swing at being a top shelf team. Not to mention, he did come into training camp in the best shape of his life (despite what Kayte was incorrectly saying the other week) which may be a good sign that he’s ready to focus and work on his body. However, part of me wonders if he would have more health success here in Sacramento considering it seems like everyone in New Orleans gets hurt all the time. Even Dyson Daniels made a comment about New Orleans being cursed. Combine Zion’s improved focus on staying in shape and our (hopefully) superior medical staff and who knows? Maybe we strike gold.
Now Zion might not be the best fit with us considering we have Sabonis at C, but I could see it work offensively considering Sabonis’ passing/facilitating abilities and ability to hit the 3 at a high rate. I’d also be intrigued to see what Zion could do with a guy like Sabonis setting screens for him and allowing Zion a bit of space to get downhill and attack the paint.
So if Zion is the target, the question becomes “what is the trade?” and “how do we put a complementary roster around Zion/Sabonis?”
Shooting, defense, and length is a MUST around these two. So which players that will be under contract next season have those attributes?
Good Shooting, Defense, & Length
Keon Ellis
Keegan Murray
Good Defense & Length / Bad Shooting
Devin Carter
Good Shooting / Bad Defense & Length
Zach LaVine
Malik Monk
Good Length / Bad Shooting & Defense
Jonas Valanciunas
Bad Shooting, Defense, & Length
DeMar DeRozan
As you can see, moving DeRozan is a must and you’ll want to move at least one of Monk or LaVine as well. Although, if I had to keep one, my preference would be to keep Monk considering his age, contract, and ability to play PG. I’d be open to moving Valanciunas for a better fit as well, but since he’s really mostly going to be used to replace Sabonis vs. play next to him, I wouldn’t be upset if he was on the roster at the start of next year. I love Carter’s potential and his hypothetical fit if he can get his shot down, but I’d be kidding myself if I wasn’t open to moving him when we’re talking about trying to bring Zion here.
With the Pelicans having the 2nd worst record in the league, Ingram being traded away, Murray tearing his achilles, Herb tearing his labrum, and McCollum continuing to get older, I think it makes too much sense for them to tear it down and rebuild. So here’s the framework of the deal I’m thinking about…
Zach LaVine
DeMar DeRozan
Devin Carter
Picks*
for
Zion Williamson
Trey Murphy
Herb Jones
Jose Alvarado
*Assuming our 2025 1st conveys to ATL this draft, we technically could offer this max pick package…
PG - Monk / Alvarado
SG - Jones / Ellis
SF - Murphy / Murray
PF - Zion
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas
…with a potential minutes rotation of…
PG - Monk (32) / Alvarado (16)
SG - Jones (22) / Ellis (26)
SF - Murphy (28) / Murray (14) / Jones (6)
PF - Zion (34) / Murray (14)
C - Sabonis (34) / Val (14)
Zion = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Monk = 32 min
Jones = 28 min
Murphy = 28 min
Murray = 28 min
Ellis = 26 min
Alvarado = 16 min
Valanciunas = 14 min
I would be very interested to see how that team fairs considering it has a great combination of scoring, shooting, defense, rebounding, length, and athleticism. Also, everyone on that team is basically 25-28 years old which gives us a pretty long runway to work with.
There’s also another iteration of this trade that includes CHI as a 3rd team and would be something like…
Zach LaVine
DeMar DeRozan
Jonas Valanciunas
Devin Carter
Picks
for
Zion Williamson
Trey Murphy
Herb Jones
Jalen Smith
Lonzo Ball
Essentially we’d get Ball and Smith instead of Valanciunas and Alvarado which I think I’d prefer considering Smith’s shooting and rim protection would be a better fit at C next to Zion and Ball’s ability to be a pure PG, defend 1-3, and space the floor would be an upgrade compared to Alvarado (but obviously Ball is a bigger injury risk).
You could also even swap Patrick Williams in for Trey Murphy if NOP wants to keep Murphy for their rebuild, and it would allow us to keep more of our picks as Williams’ wouldn’t be worth as much as Murphy.
With Fox, we at least could squint a little and say he has the potential to be a #1 guy. We all saw flashes of it and just hoped he’d be more consistent, find a way to play angry all the time, etc., but this team no longer has a player that at least gives us that “hope.” That’s a big issue to have for a “win now” team as those players are rare and often harder to acquire.
So without bottoming out/tanking, how do we acquire a player who is…
- Good enough to be a #1 option on a top shelf team or has the potential to grow into that type of player
- Realistically available in a trade
- Not going to cost us a massive amount of assets (since we don’t have a ton compared to some of these other teams)
Yes, he’s a huge injury risk, but our options are limited if we want to take a swing at being a top shelf team. Not to mention, he did come into training camp in the best shape of his life (despite what Kayte was incorrectly saying the other week) which may be a good sign that he’s ready to focus and work on his body. However, part of me wonders if he would have more health success here in Sacramento considering it seems like everyone in New Orleans gets hurt all the time. Even Dyson Daniels made a comment about New Orleans being cursed. Combine Zion’s improved focus on staying in shape and our (hopefully) superior medical staff and who knows? Maybe we strike gold.
Now Zion might not be the best fit with us considering we have Sabonis at C, but I could see it work offensively considering Sabonis’ passing/facilitating abilities and ability to hit the 3 at a high rate. I’d also be intrigued to see what Zion could do with a guy like Sabonis setting screens for him and allowing Zion a bit of space to get downhill and attack the paint.
So if Zion is the target, the question becomes “what is the trade?” and “how do we put a complementary roster around Zion/Sabonis?”
Shooting, defense, and length is a MUST around these two. So which players that will be under contract next season have those attributes?
Good Shooting, Defense, & Length
Keon Ellis
Keegan Murray
Good Defense & Length / Bad Shooting
Devin Carter
Good Shooting / Bad Defense & Length
Zach LaVine
Malik Monk
Good Length / Bad Shooting & Defense
Jonas Valanciunas
Bad Shooting, Defense, & Length
DeMar DeRozan
As you can see, moving DeRozan is a must and you’ll want to move at least one of Monk or LaVine as well. Although, if I had to keep one, my preference would be to keep Monk considering his age, contract, and ability to play PG. I’d be open to moving Valanciunas for a better fit as well, but since he’s really mostly going to be used to replace Sabonis vs. play next to him, I wouldn’t be upset if he was on the roster at the start of next year. I love Carter’s potential and his hypothetical fit if he can get his shot down, but I’d be kidding myself if I wasn’t open to moving him when we’re talking about trying to bring Zion here.
With the Pelicans having the 2nd worst record in the league, Ingram being traded away, Murray tearing his achilles, Herb tearing his labrum, and McCollum continuing to get older, I think it makes too much sense for them to tear it down and rebuild. So here’s the framework of the deal I’m thinking about…
Zach LaVine
DeMar DeRozan
Devin Carter
Picks*
for
Zion Williamson
Trey Murphy
Herb Jones
Jose Alvarado
*Assuming our 2025 1st conveys to ATL this draft, we technically could offer this max pick package…
- 2026 SAC 1st
- 2027 SAC/SAS 1st (Most Favorable of SAC & SAS)
- 2027 Pick Swap (2nd Most Favorable of MIL, NOP, SAC, & SAS)
- 2028 SAC 1st
- 2029 Pick Swap (Most Favorable of NOP & SAC)
- 2030 SAC 1st
- 2031 MIN/SAC/SAS 1st (2nd Most Favorable of MIN, SAC, & SAS)
- 2031 Pick Swap (3rd Most Favorable of NOP, MIN, SAC, & SAS)
- 2032 SAC 1st
PG - Monk / Alvarado
SG - Jones / Ellis
SF - Murphy / Murray
PF - Zion
C - Sabonis / Valanciunas
…with a potential minutes rotation of…
PG - Monk (32) / Alvarado (16)
SG - Jones (22) / Ellis (26)
SF - Murphy (28) / Murray (14) / Jones (6)
PF - Zion (34) / Murray (14)
C - Sabonis (34) / Val (14)
Zion = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Monk = 32 min
Jones = 28 min
Murphy = 28 min
Murray = 28 min
Ellis = 26 min
Alvarado = 16 min
Valanciunas = 14 min
I would be very interested to see how that team fairs considering it has a great combination of scoring, shooting, defense, rebounding, length, and athleticism. Also, everyone on that team is basically 25-28 years old which gives us a pretty long runway to work with.
There’s also another iteration of this trade that includes CHI as a 3rd team and would be something like…
Zach LaVine
DeMar DeRozan
Jonas Valanciunas
Devin Carter
Picks
for
Zion Williamson
Trey Murphy
Herb Jones
Jalen Smith
Lonzo Ball
Essentially we’d get Ball and Smith instead of Valanciunas and Alvarado which I think I’d prefer considering Smith’s shooting and rim protection would be a better fit at C next to Zion and Ball’s ability to be a pure PG, defend 1-3, and space the floor would be an upgrade compared to Alvarado (but obviously Ball is a bigger injury risk).
You could also even swap Patrick Williams in for Trey Murphy if NOP wants to keep Murphy for their rebuild, and it would allow us to keep more of our picks as Williams’ wouldn’t be worth as much as Murphy.