[Game] Sacramento Kings @ Philadelphia 76ers, 1/12/2024, 4:30p PST/7:30p EST
- Thread starter QWERTYLICIOUS
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Here are some of the SGs in the Western conference
K Thompson (GSW): 6'6", 220 lbs
T Mann (LAC): 6'5", 215 lbs
J Harden (LAC): 6'5", 220 lbs
A Reaves (LAL): 6'5", 197 lbs
D Booker (PHX): 6'6", 206 lbs
B Beal (PHX): 6'4", 207 lbs
K Pope (Nuggets): 6'5", 204 lbs
A Edwards (Wolves): 6'4", 225 lbs
SG Alexander (OKC): 6'6", 195 lbs
A Simons (Blazers): 6'3", 193 lbs
S Sharpe (Blazers): 6'5", 205 lbs
THT (Jazz): 6'4", 234 lbs
L Doncic (Dallas): 6'7", 230 lbs (officially listed as PG, but will play mostly SG when Irving plays)
J Green (Rockets): 6'4", 186 lbs
D Bane (Grizz): 6'5", 215 lbs
CJ McCollum (Pels): 6'3", 190 lbs
T Murphy III (Pels): 6'8", 206 lbs
D Vassell (Spurs): 6'5", 200 lbs
By contrast, these are our guards
Fox: 6'3", 185 lbs
Ellis: 6'3", 175 lbs
Huerter: 6'7", 198 lbs
Duarte: 6'5", 190 lbs
Davion: 6'0", 202 lbs
Monk: 6'3", 200 lbs
Colby: 6'6", 207 lbs
Kessler: 6'7", 203 lbs
Clearly, Kevin (and to a slightly lesser extent, Duarte), are the only two folks who have the requisite size (both in terms of height and weight) to play the 2. Ellis might put on some more mass over the years, but will remain slightly undersized for his position. Colby eventually might find minutes there, if his play and shot improves. He clearly has the size, and by some reports, good instincts. Monk is also slightly undersized, but makes up with his skills and fearlessness.
I included Kessler here, more to get the folks' reaction to him possibly being tried there. Given that our best backup plays a lot of minutes there, and we are trying to get one of our major offensive weapons there going (or trading for something significant), not going to happen. However, purely in terms of size, he's very similar to Kevin/ So, added him here.
Two of the best defenders in the above group (Davion and Ellis) are limited by their physical traits. Love Davion, but he's too short to play the 2, while Ellis is too light (and perhaps a tad short). Since our best players plays the 1, they will always struggle for minutes. Couple of years down the line, Colby might own that position. Till then, it should be either Kevin or Duarte.
K Thompson (GSW): 6'6", 220 lbs
T Mann (LAC): 6'5", 215 lbs
J Harden (LAC): 6'5", 220 lbs
A Reaves (LAL): 6'5", 197 lbs
D Booker (PHX): 6'6", 206 lbs
B Beal (PHX): 6'4", 207 lbs
K Pope (Nuggets): 6'5", 204 lbs
A Edwards (Wolves): 6'4", 225 lbs
SG Alexander (OKC): 6'6", 195 lbs
A Simons (Blazers): 6'3", 193 lbs
S Sharpe (Blazers): 6'5", 205 lbs
THT (Jazz): 6'4", 234 lbs
L Doncic (Dallas): 6'7", 230 lbs (officially listed as PG, but will play mostly SG when Irving plays)
J Green (Rockets): 6'4", 186 lbs
D Bane (Grizz): 6'5", 215 lbs
CJ McCollum (Pels): 6'3", 190 lbs
T Murphy III (Pels): 6'8", 206 lbs
D Vassell (Spurs): 6'5", 200 lbs
By contrast, these are our guards
Fox: 6'3", 185 lbs
Ellis: 6'3", 175 lbs
Huerter: 6'7", 198 lbs
Duarte: 6'5", 190 lbs
Davion: 6'0", 202 lbs
Monk: 6'3", 200 lbs
Colby: 6'6", 207 lbs
Kessler: 6'7", 203 lbs
Clearly, Kevin (and to a slightly lesser extent, Duarte), are the only two folks who have the requisite size (both in terms of height and weight) to play the 2. Ellis might put on some more mass over the years, but will remain slightly undersized for his position. Colby eventually might find minutes there, if his play and shot improves. He clearly has the size, and by some reports, good instincts. Monk is also slightly undersized, but makes up with his skills and fearlessness.
I included Kessler here, more to get the folks' reaction to him possibly being tried there. Given that our best backup plays a lot of minutes there, and we are trying to get one of our major offensive weapons there going (or trading for something significant), not going to happen. However, purely in terms of size, he's very similar to Kevin/ So, added him here.
Two of the best defenders in the above group (Davion and Ellis) are limited by their physical traits. Love Davion, but he's too short to play the 2, while Ellis is too light (and perhaps a tad short). Since our best players plays the 1, they will always struggle for minutes. Couple of years down the line, Colby might own that position. Till then, it should be either Kevin or Duarte.
We're not particularly small. We probably play small, relying more on outside shooting. I think Barnes, as the purported PF is particularly guilty of this, though this may be equally at the coaches' door.
Comparing our starting 5 to Toronto, a team often said to be long, we are not particularly small at any position. However, many of their players outweigh us, often significantly. Siakam is 245 lbs to Barnes 225; Scottie Barnes 237 to Keegan 225; Barrett 214 to Huerter 198; and even Poetl 260 lb to Domas 240. We win only the PG position. That said, Domas plays big, fighting for position, boards, and matching elbow for elbow.
Some of our playing small may be due to size, while some is just style. Our young guys may add more mass over time, and play closer to the basket then. My earlier post was specific to the SG position though, and specifically, the desire to play Keon there. I feel that he lacks the physical tools to be effective there long term. It's one thing to show potential for few sessions/games. Playing a whole season when your opponents regularly outweigh you by 25 lbs or so, will tell on the body over time. Fighting through screens set by big men, chasing down, guarding and attacking players much bigger than you will cause your body to take a beating. I hope Colby improves, since he checks a lot of boxes that we need for that position. Till then, Duarte and Kevin are our best bets there.
Comparing our starting 5 to Toronto, a team often said to be long, we are not particularly small at any position. However, many of their players outweigh us, often significantly. Siakam is 245 lbs to Barnes 225; Scottie Barnes 237 to Keegan 225; Barrett 214 to Huerter 198; and even Poetl 260 lb to Domas 240. We win only the PG position. That said, Domas plays big, fighting for position, boards, and matching elbow for elbow.
Some of our playing small may be due to size, while some is just style. Our young guys may add more mass over time, and play closer to the basket then. My earlier post was specific to the SG position though, and specifically, the desire to play Keon there. I feel that he lacks the physical tools to be effective there long term. It's one thing to show potential for few sessions/games. Playing a whole season when your opponents regularly outweigh you by 25 lbs or so, will tell on the body over time. Fighting through screens set by big men, chasing down, guarding and attacking players much bigger than you will cause your body to take a beating. I hope Colby improves, since he checks a lot of boxes that we need for that position. Till then, Duarte and Kevin are our best bets there.
Looks like your listed heights here are all mixed up. You've got some in shoes and some without. Ellis is 6'3.5 without shoes and Colby Jones is 6'4.5 without shoes. No way is he the same height as Klay Thompson....and neither is Booker who is also 6'4.5 without shoes.
Fox and Monk are both 6'2 without shoes
Fox and Monk are both 6'2 without shoes
There are certainly a lot of factors that go into playing styles. We have seen smaller players play big and vice versa.
There is a limit to how much one can compensate though, and this is based purely on listed height and weight (per ESPN). This obviously doesn't take the intangibles into account.
My main point was that I don't think a 6'3" 175 lbs Keon Ellis would fare well at SG over a prolonged period. Based on physical characteristics alone, Kevin and Duarte are our best bets there for now, and Colby might grow in that role eventually.
Keon and even Davion might help there at times, depending on the day and the matchup. Neither is likely a long term solution there though.
There is a limit to how much one can compensate though, and this is based purely on listed height and weight (per ESPN). This obviously doesn't take the intangibles into account.
My main point was that I don't think a 6'3" 175 lbs Keon Ellis would fare well at SG over a prolonged period. Based on physical characteristics alone, Kevin and Duarte are our best bets there for now, and Colby might grow in that role eventually.
Keon and even Davion might help there at times, depending on the day and the matchup. Neither is likely a long term solution there though.
I’m guessing your measurements are pulled from a generic site vs. official NBA combine measurements (as some of these look off)?
Here’s how the measurements look across our guys…
Height w/o Shoes
Wingspan
Standing Reach
Weight
Duarte was never officially measured so I left him off.
Edwards is more of a SF because he 1) has the size/length to be successful there and 2) he doesn’t have the ball handling/passing skills you would ideally want out of your SG. Obviously if you have enough ball handling/passing from other positions, you could get away with someone who lacks it at SG but that’s more of an exception.
Looking at the rest, you can see both Ellis and Jones have the most length among the rest of the options. Sure, Ellis is on the lighter side but he’s shown that he can be a disruptive defender despite that.
Again, I think Huerter should be the starter but if I had to choose a 2nd option, Ellis would probably be my choice.
Here’s how the measurements look across our guys…
Height w/o Shoes
- Edwards = 6’7”
- Huerter = 6’6.25”
- Jones = 6’4.5”
- Ellis = 6’3.5”
- Monk = 6’2.25”
- Fox = 6’2”
- Mitchell = 6’0”
Wingspan
- Edwards = 6’11.25”
- Ellis = 6’8.5”
- Jones = 6’8”
- Huerter = 6’7.5”
- Fox = 6’6.5”
- Mitchell = 6’4.5”
- Monk = 6’3.5”
Standing Reach
- Edwards = 8’10”
- Jones = 8’7”
- Ellis = 8’6”
- Huerter = 8’5.5”
- Fox = 8’4”
- Monk = 8’3”
- Mitchell = 8’0.5”
Weight
- Edwards = 203 lbs
- Mitchell = 202.4 lbs
- Jones = 199.2 lbs
- Monk = 197 lbs
- Huerter = 194 lbs
- Fox = 169.6 lbs
- Ellis = 167.4 lbs
Duarte was never officially measured so I left him off.
Edwards is more of a SF because he 1) has the size/length to be successful there and 2) he doesn’t have the ball handling/passing skills you would ideally want out of your SG. Obviously if you have enough ball handling/passing from other positions, you could get away with someone who lacks it at SG but that’s more of an exception.
Looking at the rest, you can see both Ellis and Jones have the most length among the rest of the options. Sure, Ellis is on the lighter side but he’s shown that he can be a disruptive defender despite that.
Again, I think Huerter should be the starter but if I had to choose a 2nd option, Ellis would probably be my choice.
Eh, that sounds very reasonable and scientific, and also like something that only has value for pre-draft scouting/combine purposes. They play with shoes on; whatever their height is with shoes on is the height that matters.
Now you tell me what someone's standing reach is, or what their wingspan is, now that's useful information.
Now you tell me what someone's standing reach is, or what their wingspan is, now that's useful information.
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