Guys like Bagley (and Simmons) are prima donnas at heart, then when they don’t perform their “camps” fill their heads with all kinds of nonsense about how great they are and how they are being mistreated. Their agents don’t help matters with the bad advice they give to these boneheads to pout and thereby “force a trade”. It’s all adds up to a REALLY bad look for the players involved. MBIII’s reputation is tarnished at this point - he appears to be a cancer with questionable value as an NBA player to boot.
Bagley refused to come into game
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Marvin Bagley's arrogant attitude, highly questionable conduct addressed under NBA rule presumably signed when became a millionaire at age 19. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2010/03/can-basketball-players-simply-refuse-to-play.html
Unfortunately, the list doesn’t begin or end with either of those players. That’s the sad reality.
A long list of prima donna examples among ALL major sports can be listed. It didn’t start with the current generation, it’s just grown worse and become more accepted.
Player/family and agent entitlement has been an evolving thing for a long time. They have collectively become more powerful over time. The age of the Internet and social media was akin to pouring gasoline on an already large fire.
A long list of prima donna examples among ALL major sports can be listed. It didn’t start with the current generation, it’s just grown worse and become more accepted.
Player/family and agent entitlement has been an evolving thing for a long time. They have collectively become more powerful over time. The age of the Internet and social media was akin to pouring gasoline on an already large fire.
This 1000%.
The usual counter argument to this is that aside from injuries, he was given every opportunity. Well, no he wasn't. He's been played out of position, which is not a true opportunity. He's a natural 5 who Luke decided to make a stretch 4. In no reality should a coach be thinking that the ultra athletic rookie, who collects rebounds with ease, runs the floor like a gazelle, specializes in easy put backs and rim running should play the same role as Bjelica.
Defense? The team is terrible at defense. If the coach can't get the vets to play defense, how are they going to develop a rookie into a better defender?
Suppressing everything that Marvin is good at and having him sit in the corner and shoot 3s and defend the perimeter is not actually giving him an opportunity to succeed. What Walton is doing is setting him up for failure and hiding behind the fact that he gave him minutes.
An example I use with friends is drafting Buster Posey and having him compete at SS and then saying whelp, we gave him a shot when he loses out to Brandon Crawford.
I'm all for players being accountable for their own success, but the game is hard enough without the obstacles this organization puts in front of its young players. When Marvin is traded, it will not break my heart. My concern is that the team is scapegoating players, but not really addressing the true issues.
The usual counter argument to this is that aside from injuries, he was given every opportunity. Well, no he wasn't. He's been played out of position, which is not a true opportunity. He's a natural 5 who Luke decided to make a stretch 4. In no reality should a coach be thinking that the ultra athletic rookie, who collects rebounds with ease, runs the floor like a gazelle, specializes in easy put backs and rim running should play the same role as Bjelica.
Defense? The team is terrible at defense. If the coach can't get the vets to play defense, how are they going to develop a rookie into a better defender?
Suppressing everything that Marvin is good at and having him sit in the corner and shoot 3s and defend the perimeter is not actually giving him an opportunity to succeed. What Walton is doing is setting him up for failure and hiding behind the fact that he gave him minutes.
An example I use with friends is drafting Buster Posey and having him compete at SS and then saying whelp, we gave him a shot when he loses out to Brandon Crawford.
I'm all for players being accountable for their own success, but the game is hard enough without the obstacles this organization puts in front of its young players. When Marvin is traded, it will not break my heart. My concern is that the team is scapegoating players, but not really addressing the true issues.
I would be totally fine if Bagley and Walton are gone.
The arguments that I don't get is why fans and Brandon Williams (the person, who bears the responsibility for Bagley over Doncic and the reason why Joeger got fired) think Bagley should've been given more opportunities. This was true when Joeger was here. It's true now with Walton.
Bagley was given every opportunity. Yea, some of the blame goes to injuries. But dude didn't jump levels the way #2 picks are supposed to. He had offseasons to develop his body and plenty off the court time to study film. How do you spend four years in the league and still have no defensive awareness. How do you spend four years and still have no offensive development?
Honestly, the Kings screwed up by not sending Bagley to the G-league. In fact, they should do that now. He's healthy.
The arguments that I don't get is why fans and Brandon Williams (the person, who bears the responsibility for Bagley over Doncic and the reason why Joeger got fired) think Bagley should've been given more opportunities. This was true when Joeger was here. It's true now with Walton.
Bagley was given every opportunity. Yea, some of the blame goes to injuries. But dude didn't jump levels the way #2 picks are supposed to. He had offseasons to develop his body and plenty off the court time to study film. How do you spend four years in the league and still have no defensive awareness. How do you spend four years and still have no offensive development?
Honestly, the Kings screwed up by not sending Bagley to the G-league. In fact, they should do that now. He's healthy.
In today's NBA Bagley is a five because there really aren't any traditional PFs left and that's his best fit IMO.
His offensive game is suited to being a five but he doesn't offer rim protection and is statistically one of the absolute worst interior defenders in the entire league.
The biggest problem for Bagley is that there just isn't a good positional fit for him. He hasn't expanded his offensive game enough to be a big wing/PF in today's game and he hasn't improved on defense enough to play as the lone big.
If he had Giannis level talent then you deal with his shortcomings and build around him but he's not that good a player to warrant that.
So you have a player with a knack for scoring inside, a good enough jumper to keep defenses honest and solid rebounding with terrible defense.
I've already said that the Kings should try starting him to see if it adds a spark but that's only because Harkless isn't really providing anything. Long term I think Bagley's career will be somewhere between Jahlil Okafor and Enes Kanter as a scoring big off the bench whose minutes will always be limited by his poor defense and black hole tendencies on offense.
His offensive game is suited to being a five but he doesn't offer rim protection and is statistically one of the absolute worst interior defenders in the entire league.
The biggest problem for Bagley is that there just isn't a good positional fit for him. He hasn't expanded his offensive game enough to be a big wing/PF in today's game and he hasn't improved on defense enough to play as the lone big.
If he had Giannis level talent then you deal with his shortcomings and build around him but he's not that good a player to warrant that.
So you have a player with a knack for scoring inside, a good enough jumper to keep defenses honest and solid rebounding with terrible defense.
I've already said that the Kings should try starting him to see if it adds a spark but that's only because Harkless isn't really providing anything. Long term I think Bagley's career will be somewhere between Jahlil Okafor and Enes Kanter as a scoring big off the bench whose minutes will always be limited by his poor defense and black hole tendencies on offense.
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I understand the argument of him not being able to play the 5 because of defense. Even if I don't 100% agree with some of the reasons given for his struggles.
However, when some say there is no place in the league for a guy who can sleep walk himself to a double double, I have to cry foul.
@funkykingston, you've been more than fair with your arguments. My push back is on the extreme emotional takes.
However, when some say there is no place in the league for a guy who can sleep walk himself to a double double, I have to cry foul.
@funkykingston, you've been more than fair with your arguments. My push back is on the extreme emotional takes.
I think the extreme emotional takes have been sparked in part by his dad and his agent. People are fed up with it. I’ve supported Bagley for a long time and think there is still potential there but at this point, with the dad and agent, he needs to go for all parties involved.
I don’t think Walton has helped him at all and I’m all for changing coaches but one has to acknowledge that Walton is fighting for his coaching career right now and if he doesn’t think Bagley helps then not sure I can blame him but on the other hand, Walton should have been able to bring out more from the kid. As Sean Cunningham said, Bagley may be a bust but there is untapped potential there and if you dump Walton and bring in the next guy this season, will that guy be able to unlock some of it. And for the record, I think Walton is terrible at unlocking potential and tries to fit guys into roles not suited for them but suited for Walton’s schemes and that is the main reason he needs to go.
The other reason to keep Bagley around is he is an expiring contract
I don’t think Walton has helped him at all and I’m all for changing coaches but one has to acknowledge that Walton is fighting for his coaching career right now and if he doesn’t think Bagley helps then not sure I can blame him but on the other hand, Walton should have been able to bring out more from the kid. As Sean Cunningham said, Bagley may be a bust but there is untapped potential there and if you dump Walton and bring in the next guy this season, will that guy be able to unlock some of it. And for the record, I think Walton is terrible at unlocking potential and tries to fit guys into roles not suited for them but suited for Walton’s schemes and that is the main reason he needs to go.
The other reason to keep Bagley around is he is an expiring contract
I could easily see Bagley having a 10+ year NBA career if he can stay healthy. The question is what his ceiling is. Doesn't look like we'll get any answers to that this year, but if he goes somewhere else we'll get a clearer picture based on both the contract(s) he's offered and the role he ends up playing.
My guess is that he settles into a reserve/sometime starter role and realizes that he won't be a star but can tailor his game to be a contributor as a bench scorer and rebounder. If that's the case, it will probably take 1-2 more seasons before it sinks in that he's not going to be a star in the NBA and will need to adapt.
He's only 22 (23 in March) and he has a lot of natural talent so it's still possible that he could become something more but not a lot of guys break out after four seasons of relatively little improvement.
My guess is that he settles into a reserve/sometime starter role and realizes that he won't be a star but can tailor his game to be a contributor as a bench scorer and rebounder. If that's the case, it will probably take 1-2 more seasons before it sinks in that he's not going to be a star in the NBA and will need to adapt.
He's only 22 (23 in March) and he has a lot of natural talent so it's still possible that he could become something more but not a lot of guys break out after four seasons of relatively little improvement.
Just because Drummond is playing for the min, doesn't mean he didn't have other opportunities. Hes trying to win like all the other vets who hang on the coat tails of other starts. But hes no slouch and hes not 22 like Bagley either. A walking double double is in fact exactly what it use to be. Kings would like to have one of those right now given how badly we've been out re bounded. And Coach with two good eyes can see that using a undersides Center along with a underside PF, along with 3 guards = no rebounding. Pair 3 guards with 2 strong rebounders and you just might have something.
And if the Kings would have simply put him in the spot they gave to Holmes, Marvin would have been traded by now since he would likely have maintained some level of trade value. Even with the injuries his production would have been decent. Bad franchises get too locked in on their perception of scouting and long term development rather than looking to maximize asset value in order to sell high. Once a player looks to have maxed out their potential or hasn't produced in 2 seasons, heck even 1 nowadays, value is lost. On a number 2 pick, it's a hard, hard pill to swallow.
Unfortunately the injuries really shut down our ability to showcase and move. Or hell even try to make him fit. Obviously Holmes wasn't brought here as the #1 option, it was supposed to be a Dedmon/Bagley pairing, and if both had improved upon their 2018/2019 season it may have even worked. Instead they've left a trail of bodies.
Detroit is still looking his direction apparently. I wouldn't be surprised at all if one of these young teams looks his way and makes the Kings look like total idiots when the Kings eventually just cut him. I don't think he'll get Harry Giles treatment from the league. Who knows though. Had Harry had interest from a team like that he might have gotten a fair shake too.
