Still defending Vlade? (split from game thread)
- Thread starter Showtime
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When Vlade goes, is Bagley’s writing on the wall? I’m sure he can’t love his team’s owner lamenting him being the pick, and I’m kind of feeling the powers that be will want this entire dark chapter as water gone under the bridge.
Personally I keep Bagley and hope and pray he turns out.... good enough. But I don’t know if it will work out like that.
Personally I keep Bagley and hope and pray he turns out.... good enough. But I don’t know if it will work out like that.
My opinion, right or wrong, Bagley is as good as gone. Again, my opinion, dude is a walking injury and I don't think he has the killer instinct anyway. Won't move my needle when he's traded for peanuts. Chalk this up for what it is, a huge HUGE mistake and a very VERY dark period in Kings lore. Lets write this period off ASAP so everyone can move on..........
Also, this leak most definitely has come from Vivek. It would not be in the interest of anyone else on the group text to divulge this information. Despite what Vivek thinks, this makes him look bad. You may have wanted Luka, so you say, but your team did draft a guy and you have to take care of the people who are actually here while they're on the team. This essentially ends any positive working relationship with Bagley.
A couple things from the Sam Amick interview this morning. Sam is a pro and is never going to tell people what or how to think, but he seemed a little stunned by how things progressed. Stunned may be too strong, but he relayed a few things that doesn't show Vivek in a positive light. He noted
1. The Mavs missed on Giannis in the draft, but were able to get over it.
2. Said that the draft is an inexact science and teams miss all the time.
3. That the basketball decision to not get Luka so the ball isn't taken away from Fox is an ok thing to think, even if the choice turned out to be wrong.
4. That Sam would have expected changes in the FO to happen in the offseason, but there is activity going on now. Sam was intentionally not specific about what he's hearing other than it might be to add another person to the FO and not just a flat out firing.
With respect to the greater point these things are getting at, all of this leads to the thought that Vivek's inability to "get over" this draft as being disproportionate to the situation or at least unprofessional/poor business to act in this way.
Fans can feel or act however they want and don't have to get over anything. However, I'm not comfortable with the owner being emotional, pouty or needing to protect his ego so much that he throws everyone, including his player to the wolves. That might just be the reason he can't make good basketball hires. Too much in his feelings.
1. The Mavs missed on Giannis in the draft, but were able to get over it.
2. Said that the draft is an inexact science and teams miss all the time.
3. That the basketball decision to not get Luka so the ball isn't taken away from Fox is an ok thing to think, even if the choice turned out to be wrong.
4. That Sam would have expected changes in the FO to happen in the offseason, but there is activity going on now. Sam was intentionally not specific about what he's hearing other than it might be to add another person to the FO and not just a flat out firing.
With respect to the greater point these things are getting at, all of this leads to the thought that Vivek's inability to "get over" this draft as being disproportionate to the situation or at least unprofessional/poor business to act in this way.
Fans can feel or act however they want and don't have to get over anything. However, I'm not comfortable with the owner being emotional, pouty or needing to protect his ego so much that he throws everyone, including his player to the wolves. That might just be the reason he can't make good basketball hires. Too much in his feelings.
Actually, I don't think the Kings ever hired an actual General Manager during Vlade's tenure, so the buck always stopped with Vlade.
Those guys you listed were always considered assistant GMs, not The GM.
I think that is the main problem with this FO. The Kings need an actual, bonafide NBA caliber General Manager, with NBA know how and NBA respect and connections.
Even if we kept Vlade as the VP (which is what I would suggest, for PR and stability), if we hired an actual, experienced GM to make the player personnel decisions, that would go a long way to legitimize the F.O., IMHO.
Those guys you listed were always considered assistant GMs, not The GM.
I think that is the main problem with this FO. The Kings need an actual, bonafide NBA caliber General Manager, with NBA know how and NBA respect and connections.
Even if we kept Vlade as the VP (which is what I would suggest, for PR and stability), if we hired an actual, experienced GM to make the player personnel decisions, that would go a long way to legitimize the F.O., IMHO.
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I don't know why Amick is comparing the Mavs missing on Giannis to us missing on Doncic. The two situations aren't even in the same stratosphere. The vast majority of our fan base wanted us to take Doncic. Everyone and their brother knows that wings that can average triple doubles are the keys to getting to the playoffs and winning championships and Luka had a better shot at that than any other recent draft pick. Giannis was picked 15th and almost literally needed to learn how to play basketball when he got to the NBA. He was no consensus pick whatsoever so saying the Mavs got over it as if they're a more mature franchise is ridiculous.
Plus why would you think that the leak definitely has to come from Vivek? It could have came from anyone that Vivek has had this conversation with. The only guy that wouldn't leak it would be Vlade.
This isn't a Sacramento issue. This is an issue that would arise within any franchise that would have blown it in this situation. It's because it was too simple of a decision to make and it was blown badly. Vivek can't fathom why Vlade would take Bagley over Doncic the same way most of us fans can't fathom it either. He's human and he's obviously going to feel the same way the rest of us do. Ideally you don't want him sharing his feelings about it for obvious reasons but we don't know if he leaked it at all. That's just pure speculation.
Plus why would you think that the leak definitely has to come from Vivek? It could have came from anyone that Vivek has had this conversation with. The only guy that wouldn't leak it would be Vlade.
This isn't a Sacramento issue. This is an issue that would arise within any franchise that would have blown it in this situation. It's because it was too simple of a decision to make and it was blown badly. Vivek can't fathom why Vlade would take Bagley over Doncic the same way most of us fans can't fathom it either. He's human and he's obviously going to feel the same way the rest of us do. Ideally you don't want him sharing his feelings about it for obvious reasons but we don't know if he leaked it at all. That's just pure speculation.
Anthony Bennett was the 1st pick in the Giannis class. Ben McLemore was the consensus #7 pick. MCW was rookie of the year. Gobert picked in the 20s. Consenus doesn't mean it's the right pick. The point of bringing up Giannis was that it specifically relates to Dallas. Teams miss all the time and you gotta move forward. No matter how you decide to do that.
Never forget that Phoenix and Atlanta blew that simple decision and other teams didn't even make a serious effort to trade up to get him. So this whole can't miss thing and everyone knew is a little overblown.
Vivek wasn't at home like the rest of us watching the draft and wondering what the Kings were going to do. Vlade says all decisions are on him so that pressure is taken off of Vivek. But best believe Vivek has an idea of which direction the team is going in the draft. Bagley was 100% on the short list. Vivek knew this and knew the reasoning. So for him to be so upset as if he was shocked and completely powerless is kinda crazy. If Vivek said, I trust Vlade to make the choice, that was within Viveks control to do so or not do. Whining about it now and pointing the finger is childish. Learn from it and get back to work.
Never forget that Phoenix and Atlanta blew that simple decision and other teams didn't even make a serious effort to trade up to get him. So this whole can't miss thing and everyone knew is a little overblown.
Vivek wasn't at home like the rest of us watching the draft and wondering what the Kings were going to do. Vlade says all decisions are on him so that pressure is taken off of Vivek. But best believe Vivek has an idea of which direction the team is going in the draft. Bagley was 100% on the short list. Vivek knew this and knew the reasoning. So for him to be so upset as if he was shocked and completely powerless is kinda crazy. If Vivek said, I trust Vlade to make the choice, that was within Viveks control to do so or not do. Whining about it now and pointing the finger is childish. Learn from it and get back to work.
Dude. I deleted that, not VF21.
If you don't want to be here, nobody's forcing you.
By the way, when you post a vulgar rant and you know it's bad enough that you preface the post by saying that the mods will probably delete it, you don't really have any room to get all righteously indignant when it does, in fact, get deleted. I mean, come on.
If you don't want to be here, nobody's forcing you.
By the way, when you post a vulgar rant and you know it's bad enough that you preface the post by saying that the mods will probably delete it, you don't really have any room to get all righteously indignant when it does, in fact, get deleted. I mean, come on.
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Whatever happened to the idea of having a "venting" thread? I thought that was gonna be a thing.
This site has definitely been over-modded the past couple months, there were a few weeks where just about any critique of the FO was getting deleted.
I get the reasoning, a lot of us who are pissed off have just been beating the crap out of the same two or three dead horses, and that's no fun for the posters who just want to enjoy a game and talk about it (which is why I'm fully supportive of the mods keeping the game threads nice and tidy), but dang it if complaining doesn't make us feel a little better! Especially considering the cause(s) of this franchise's woes are still around.
And it's not like we're a loud minority of posters making it crappy for a majority of fans. Most of us are mad as hell right now. There's some comfort and solidarity to be found in knowing you're not the only one who's salty about how this team has been run.
That being said, a crucial part of being a diehard fan of a busted franchise like The Kings is finding a reason to stick around and be optimistic. So all the negativity from us doom and gloomers has to be incredibly frustrating to sift through when you just want to talk about the game, or how good Fox is gonna be, or what a nice pickup Bazemore has turned out to be, et cetra ...
Anyways, Its a bummer that it's gotten this bad. During past years of watching dreadful teams, it always felt like all the folks here at Kingsfans were in it together. Not so much this season.
This site has definitely been over-modded the past couple months, there were a few weeks where just about any critique of the FO was getting deleted.
I get the reasoning, a lot of us who are pissed off have just been beating the crap out of the same two or three dead horses, and that's no fun for the posters who just want to enjoy a game and talk about it (which is why I'm fully supportive of the mods keeping the game threads nice and tidy), but dang it if complaining doesn't make us feel a little better! Especially considering the cause(s) of this franchise's woes are still around.
And it's not like we're a loud minority of posters making it crappy for a majority of fans. Most of us are mad as hell right now. There's some comfort and solidarity to be found in knowing you're not the only one who's salty about how this team has been run.
That being said, a crucial part of being a diehard fan of a busted franchise like The Kings is finding a reason to stick around and be optimistic. So all the negativity from us doom and gloomers has to be incredibly frustrating to sift through when you just want to talk about the game, or how good Fox is gonna be, or what a nice pickup Bazemore has turned out to be, et cetra ...
Anyways, Its a bummer that it's gotten this bad. During past years of watching dreadful teams, it always felt like all the folks here at Kingsfans were in it together. Not so much this season.
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If the Kings do not make the playoffs, the FO needs to go. And I think it'll happen.
If the Kings make the playoffs, we won't have a choice, the FO bought itself time.
My opinion, new leadership is needed regardless of the outcome. Reality says there is no way this ownership group eats the salaries of Walton and Vlade unless they absolutely have to. Time will tell.
If the Kings make the playoffs, we won't have a choice, the FO bought itself time.
My opinion, new leadership is needed regardless of the outcome. Reality says there is no way this ownership group eats the salaries of Walton and Vlade unless they absolutely have to. Time will tell.
How many threads will it take for venting? We mods have pretty much stayed out of this Vlade/front office-bashing thread, the Luka thread, and the Harry Giles option thread, ALL OF WHICH are replete with gripe after gripe after gripe. As far as critiques being deleted goes, that's simply not true. While posts have been moved to more appropriate threads, unless the post breaks one of our rules it has not been deleted. If, however, the critique crosses the line and is nothing more than name-calling or player/FO hate, it will be deleted.
Yes, some posters have been beating the crap out of the same dead horses ad nauseum. It's not about being a loud majority. It's about the negativity permeating every single thread. That's why we've tried to move it around a bit so the "mad as hell" people have room to vent but it doesn't drive away those folks who are here to talk about the team and don't necessarily want to be subjected to the same vitriol time after time after time.
It's like when they quit allowing smoking in restaurants. You could still smoke, but you had to go outside to do so. There are still places to vent.
Rule #1 around here has always been don't be a jerk. That's what made/makes KF different than some of the other boards (especially those who have fallen by the wayside over the years). That's not gonna change.
Yes, some posters have been beating the crap out of the same dead horses ad nauseum. It's not about being a loud majority. It's about the negativity permeating every single thread. That's why we've tried to move it around a bit so the "mad as hell" people have room to vent but it doesn't drive away those folks who are here to talk about the team and don't necessarily want to be subjected to the same vitriol time after time after time.
It's like when they quit allowing smoking in restaurants. You could still smoke, but you had to go outside to do so. There are still places to vent.
Rule #1 around here has always been don't be a jerk. That's what made/makes KF different than some of the other boards (especially those who have fallen by the wayside over the years). That's not gonna change.
You can always go to the other kings fan site where pretty much all they do is complain. I swear the pre game comments, game comments, and post game comments are like 80-90% complaining or hating. Except when kings win... then there are no comments. 
I might be in the minority but I kind of like going to a kings fan site where the majority of threads arent about how crappy the team is, how crappy the fo is, or how much they hate our team.
Btw I quoted you because u were the last to comment on it, not directing my comment just to you.
I might be in the minority but I kind of like going to a kings fan site where the majority of threads arent about how crappy the team is, how crappy the fo is, or how much they hate our team.
Btw I quoted you because u were the last to comment on it, not directing my comment just to you.
You can always go to the other kings fan site where pretty much all they do is complain. I swear the pre game comments, game comments, and post game comments are like 80-90% complaining or hating. Except when kings win... then there are no comments.
I might be in the minority but I kind of like going to a kings fan site where the majority of threads arent about how crappy the team is, how crappy the fo is, or how much they hate our team.
Btw I quoted you because u were the last to comment on it, not directing my comment just to you.
I might be in the minority but I kind of like going to a kings fan site where the majority of threads arent about how crappy the team is, how crappy the fo is, or how much they hate our team.
Btw I quoted you because u were the last to comment on it, not directing my comment just to you.
And I might! Just too lazy to go through the registration process atm. More passwords to remember, you know?