Eric Paschall/Vlade’s drafting

[sactowndog]

Anyone else notice how well he is playing and the Warriors drafted him after the Kings picked Justin James. The jury may still be out on Vlade’s draft and develop acumen but right now it’s hard to say it’s looking good.

2016 WCS. Off the team
2017. Pappa G, Richardson, Skal. (All off team)
2018. Fox, Jackson (over Anunoby), Giles (over Collins)
2019 Bagley (over Luka)

 

[kingsfan1984]

Didnt collins go before giles? Atl collins you mean right?

 

[Kings_of_California]

Never liked the Justin James pick. It's early so the jury is still out, but I think he'll be a JAG in a few years.

I'm looking at 2017 - wtf were they thinking with Papa G? Him being a really huge bust isn't talked about enough around here.

As for Paschall, he plays for the Warriors who tend to make everyone look good. But yea, he was a pro ready college guy that would've helped us for sure. He is playing wel and looks like a winner.

 

[sergmatt]

I honestly thought he would be better at drafting than he has been. Even this year he mismanaged assets when he could have clearly traded back and still gotten James. Right now Giles/Justin Jackson is looking like a disaster especially considering the recent issues with Giles.

WCS I really can't blame him on, he was one of the consensus picks in that 5-8 range and filled a huge need for the team. The alternatives were basically Stanley Johnson, Winslow, Kaminski, and Mudiay. Booker/Turner were not really considered consensus 5-8 range picks.

I don't think hitting at a 10-20% clip is enough when you are a perennial lottery team.

 

[gunks]

I agree that you can't blame him on WCS, he was (seemingly) BPA and fit a need.

Fox was a no brainer. One could argue Vlade lucked out and he "fell" to us.

Vlade has pretty much blown every other pick. Last year's being the most egregious **** up.

 

[jcwkings]

If Vlade would've picked John Collins over Giles he wouldn't have passed on Luka for Bagley. Sigh.

 

[sactowndog]

I agree that you can't blame him on WCS, he was (seemingly) BPA and fit a need.

Fox was a no brainer. One could argue Vlade lucked out and he "fell" to us.

Vlade has pretty much blown every other pick. Last year's being the most egregious **** up.

Yeah hard to say WCS was a terrible pick but he did pass on Booker and Winslow.

 

[SacTownKid]

The funniest thing is that it's very possible when you look back at this last draft that him missing out on any of Paschall, Schofield, Brazdeikis, or Bol Bol could be the worst whiffs considering he could have had them and what he got anyway.

 

[Pacboy]

If Vlade would've picked John Collins over Giles he wouldn't have passed on Luka for Bagley. Sigh.

He literally couldn't have. Collins went 19 and Giles was 20. Can't blame that on him

 

[kingsfan1984]

He literally couldn't have. Collins went 19 and Giles was 20. Can't blame that on him

Thats what i thought. I remember hearing Vlade wanted Collins but he went before us.

 

[King Baller]

Are you guys seriously going back through every draft using 20/20 hindsight to judge Vlade's picks?

This could be done with every GM who ever worked in the NBA Except Rod Thorn who was the GM of the Bulls when MJ was drafted.

 

[Gguod]

Bad drafting is a good way to remain bad. This franchise is a good example on that.

First of all IMO Willy didnt "fit a need". Our franchise player was a center. I dont see how our need was a center with zero outside game.

There was also a long discussion on our 2nd round picks last draft. At the time it looked very bad, at this moment it looks very bad and it will probably be very bad in the future too. A popular argument was that 2nd round picks doesnt matter. Its a bad argument because its an opportunity to find cost controlled contributors (that are also trade assets). Its certainly bad if you constantly miss on them or trade them for money (that just goes to the owners pockets). When your team trades them for money, fans should almost always be furious.

 

[Okas2001]

this made me cringe last year at the press conference

Journalist '' Why Bagley over Doncic ? ''

Vlade '' Better fit, Better Player''.


Cringe

 

[SLAB]

this made me cringe last year at the press conference

Journalist '' Why Bagley over Doncic ? ''

Vlade '' Better fit, Better Player''.


Cringe

What a great eye for talent.

 

[upinsmoke]

It is in fact time to relieve Vlade of his duties. We shouldn't have traded any of our draftees showing a complete lack of patience.

 

[LPKingsFan]

He literally couldn't have. Collins went 19 and Giles was 20. Can't blame that on him

He could have gone Collins at 15 and OG at 20, but I’m not sure this is a healthy or helpful exercise.

 

[Kingster]

It's interesting to me that so many point out defensive deficiencies of Bagley, while strangely the discussion of Doncic's defense is the sound of one hand clapping. I wonder why? Bagley at least has the athleticism to be a very good defender in the future. But Doncic? Is he the model of the two-way player? I know. You can see the inner Kawhi in there somewhere. I can see how people might be jumping on the Doncic Dallas bandwagon after beating those noteworthy teams like the Wizards, Pelicans, Cavaliers and Magic and achieving second place in the West. After they play the next two games, the Knicks and the Grizzlies, possibly producing a 7-2 record, pandemonium could break out in Doncic Dallas land. Banners will be unfurled. Trumpets will blare. Twitter will explode. Championship here we come! It's a long season, folks. Those who bash Bagley as a means to vent their frustration about missing out on the Second Coming should give it a rest. At least until we're in the latter half of the 82 game season.

 

[ockingsfan]

Vlade has not been a strong talent evaluator, especially in the 2nd round picks.

I think that the issue is that the scouting department is probably very small and not very good. The Kings always seem to be picking players that play at big name universities and with big national TV games, like Duke, Kentucky, Virginia, Syracuse, etc. They seem to only be scouting these big schools and I think it probably due to lack of a large and good scouting department. When we are drafting based off only what we see on TV or the NCAA tournament, that leaves a lot of very talented and better players passed up.

Also, I think that Vlade picks his players from a standpoint of whether he thinks he will be able to re-sign them when they become free agents. I think players that snub the Kings in the pre-draft workouts, he won't even consider, even if they are the better prospect. I think that is a mistake, because a lot of theses players may be better players and would eventually re-sign if the Kings are winning and we give them the biggest contract or max contract.

I wonder if this didn't play into passing on Doncic, for Bagley. Doncic camp may have been very upfront on what Doncic wanted and they may have warned Vlade that Doncic wants a big market and he may leave when the opportunity arises as a free agent. Vlade seems to pick players he thinks is the best talent AND that he can eventually retain in the long run, and not just the best talent.

That is probably a mistake, but if we drafted Doncic and he eventually left for the Lakers or NY after his rookie contract, we may be all very happy that we have Bagley and his 20pts/10 reb secured to a long term contract.

 

[Gguod]

That is probably a mistake, but if we drafted Doncic and he eventually left for the Lakers or NY after his rookie contract, we may be all very happy that we have Bagley and his 20pts/10 reb secured to a long term contract.

That would be a horrible strategy. After all these rookies are restricted for their second contract. Also if for some reason a star level player demanded a trade, you would be able to get a huge trade haul like NO and OKC got from AD or PG. Just draft the best and most valuable player and thats it.

 

[ockingsfan]

That would be a horrible strategy. After all these rookies are restricted for their second contract. Also if for some reason a star level player demanded a trade, you would be able to get a huge trade haul like NO and OKC got from AD or PG. Just draft the best and most valuable player and thats it.

I would agree, but that seems to be a factor on who Vlade picks. I think Geoff Petrie was very similar in that he would not draft anyone who refused a workout in Sacramento.

It may be a "Sacramento Inferiority Complex" going on here, but I think it is real.

 

[jcassio]

I give Vlade a C+ for his drafting. That assumes he is making the final decisions. It's a bit disappointing, truth be told.
Not drafting someone because they won't (or can't) schedule a Sacramento workout is like trading Chris Webber (before he ever put on a Kings uniform) because he didn't want to play in Sac. He ended up loving playing in Sac!

 

[rosa u podne]

I give Vlade a C+ for his drafting. That assumes he is making the final decisions. It's a bit disappointing, truth be told.
Not drafting someone because they won't (or can't) schedule a Sacramento workout is like trading Chris Webber (before he ever put on a Kings uniform) because he didn't want to play in Sac. He ended up loving playing in Sac!

Vlade hated being trading by Lakers because Kobe did not want to play in Sharlot. Maybe, that is a factor.

 

[rosa u podne]

It's interesting to me that so many point out defensive deficiencies of Bagley, while strangely the discussion of Doncic's defense is the sound of one hand clapping. I wonder why? Bagley at least has the athleticism to be a very good defender in the future. But Doncic? Is he the model of the two-way player? I know. You can see the inner Kawhi in there somewhere. I can see how people might be jumping on the Doncic Dallas bandwagon after beating those noteworthy teams like the Wizards, Pelicans, Cavaliers and Magic and achieving second place in the West. After they play the next two games, the Knicks and the Grizzlies, possibly producing a 7-2 record, pandemonium could break out in Doncic Dallas land. Banners will be unfurled. Trumpets will blare. Twitter will explode. Championship here we come! It's a long season, folks. Those who bash Bagley as a means to vent their frustration about missing out on the Second Coming should give it a rest. At least until we're in the latter half of the 82 game season.

While I preferred Doncic at the time of the draft and I still prefer him, I can see why Vlade selected Bagley. He is a great athlete and a raw but very talented player. Doncic does not have the athletic ability to ever be a very good defender in the NBA. Bagley does. I don't know if he is smart enough to learn and become one. We will see.

 

[hrdboild]

It's interesting to me that so many point out defensive deficiencies of Bagley, while strangely the discussion of Doncic's defense is the sound of one hand clapping. I wonder why? Bagley at least has the athleticism to be a very good defender in the future. But Doncic? Is he the model of the two-way player? I know. You can see the inner Kawhi in there somewhere. I can see how people might be jumping on the Doncic Dallas bandwagon after beating those noteworthy teams like the Wizards, Pelicans, Cavaliers and Magic and achieving second place in the West. After they play the next two games, the Knicks and the Grizzlies, possibly producing a 7-2 record, pandemonium could break out in Doncic Dallas land. Banners will be unfurled. Trumpets will blare. Twitter will explode. Championship here we come! It's a long season, folks. Those who bash Bagley as a means to vent their frustration about missing out on the Second Coming should give it a rest. At least until we're in the latter half of the 82 game season.

I gave up on defense when James Harden won MVP. Well, I didn't give up on it entirely... but I don't think it's nearly as important as it used to be. A guy who can put up 36 points a game and drop 8 dimes without playing a lick of defense is a legitimate MVP candidate. It doesn't matter if his game is aesthetically beautiful or not, he's getting the job done. Nobody said Kawhi. The comparison was always Harden because of the way they both attack the paint, create off the dribble, and rely on stepbacks to create separation. Until last year I was all about two-way players too and dismissed any prospect who was below average on defense but at some point you have to recognize that the usual rules don't apply when there's extraordinary skill involved. That's why all the copycat players teams dream on (the dozens of guys who were supposed to be the next Dirk or the next MJ or the next Magic or the next Lebron etc) are almost always busts. Special is it's own category. You just know it when you see it.

 

[twslam07]

It's interesting to me that so many point out defensive deficiencies of Bagley, while strangely the discussion of Doncic's defense is the sound of one hand clapping. I wonder why? Bagley at least has the athleticism to be a very good defender in the future. But Doncic? Is he the model of the two-way player? I know. You can see the inner Kawhi in there somewhere. I can see how people might be jumping on the Doncic Dallas bandwagon after beating those noteworthy teams like the Wizards, Pelicans, Cavaliers and Magic and achieving second place in the West. After they play the next two games, the Knicks and the Grizzlies, possibly producing a 7-2 record, pandemonium could break out in Doncic Dallas land. Banners will be unfurled. Trumpets will blare. Twitter will explode. Championship here we come! It's a long season, folks. Those who bash Bagley as a means to vent their frustration about missing out on the Second Coming should give it a rest. At least until we're in the latter half of the 82 game season.

Well I think for starters you can say that both have good/great potential as scorers. Both are good rebounders for their positions as well. However, Doncic's ability to pass & setup his teammates is far superior to Bagley. For starters, I think that's why people are willing to accept Doncic's lack of defense moreso than Bagley. The fact that Doncic can really do it all on the offensive end whereas Bagley appears to be more of a scorer on the offensive end plays a role.

The other thing you need to keep in mind is that defense tends to be more important for big men vs. perimeter players. For Bagley to be a cornerstone that can help lead us to championship contention, he's going to need to be a good defender. Guys like Lillard, Harden, etc. who aren't known to be good defenders are able to still carry their teams despite their defensive inefficiencies. Doncic is seen in a similar light. Let's look at the top championship contenders and their franchise pieces:

MIL = Giannis, Middleton, Brogdon, & Bledsoe. No big men who are bad defenders.
TOR = Leonard, Siakam, & Lowry. No big men who are bad defenders.
PHI = Embiid, Simmons, Butler, & Harris. No big men who are bad defenders.
GSW = Curry, Thompson, Durant, & Green. No big men who are bad defenders.
DEN = Jokic, Murray, & Millsap. No big men who are bad defenders.
POR = Lillard, McCollum, & Nurkic. No big men who are bad defenders.
HOU = Harden & Paul. No big men who are bad defenders.
UTA = Mitchell, Gobert, & Ingles. No big men who are bad defenders.

Big men who are looked at as cornerstones for their team but aren't recognized as good defenders:

LaMarcus Aldridge (48-34)
Blake Griffin (41-41)
Karl-Anthony Towns (36-46)
Kevin Love (19-63)

Love was actually part of a championship team, but that championship team made him a 3rd option and had the best player in the world (and arguably the best player to ever play the game on it). Not to mention Love's shooting ability (which is still suspect with Bagley) allowed him to contribute to that team more than a big that operates mainly around the rim and in midrange.

If Bagley cares about team success, he needs to emphasize his defense and his shooting when picking things to prioritize in his development.

 

[ockingsfan]

I can see how people might be jumping on the Doncic Dallas bandwagon after beating those noteworthy teams like the Wizards, Pelicans, Cavaliers and Magic and achieving second place in the West. After they play the next two games, the Knicks and the Grizzlies, possibly producing a 7-2 record, pandemonium could break out in Doncic Dallas land. Banners will be unfurled. Trumpets will blare. Twitter will explode. Championship here we come! It's a long season, folks. Those who bash Bagley as a means to vent their frustration about missing out on the Second Coming should give it a rest. At least until we're in the latter half of the 82 game season.

Good point. That's pretty ironic that Dallas has a pretty "cake" or easy early season schedule, while the Kings have been going through the gauntlet of top West and East teams (except for the PHX, CHA and NYK games).

Time will tell, but the early and late season Kings schedule are their toughest games, the middle schedule should see us win some more games and even this thing out.

 

[ockingsfan]

Vlade hated being trading by Lakers because Kobe did not want to play in Sharlot. Maybe, that is a factor.

True. Vlade always seems to give in to what the player wants, even if it means bleeding talent. He is not a GM that will hold a player against their will to stay with the Kings.

We saw it with WCS, Seth Curry, Skal, Aaron Afllalo, (maybe Giles now?) etc. If a player is not happy, Vlade will make every effort to move them or release them.

He doesn't play hard ball with the players and I think that is a weakness when you are a GM. He should be doing what is best for the team and not necessarily the player.

 

[rosa u podne]

True. Vlade always seems to give in to what the player wants, even if it means bleeding talent. He is not a GM that will hold a player against their will to stay with the Kings.

We saw it with WCS, Seth Curry, Skal, Aaron Afllalo, (maybe Giles now?) etc. If a player is not happy, Vlade will make every effort to move them or release them.

He doesn't play hard ball with the players and I think that is a weakness when you are a GM. He should be doing what is best for the team and not necessarily the player.

It may pay off when trying to sign free agents. However, the Kings have to at least reach PO, before that is a factor.

 

[tyguy]

It's interesting to me that so many point out defensive deficiencies of Bagley, while strangely the discussion of Doncic's defense is the sound of one hand clapping. I wonder why? Bagley at least has the athleticism to be a very good defender in the future. But Doncic? Is he the model of the two-way player? I know. You can see the inner Kawhi in there somewhere. I can see how people might be jumping on the Doncic Dallas bandwagon after beating those noteworthy teams like the Wizards, Pelicans, Cavaliers and Magic and achieving second place in the West. After they play the next two games, the Knicks and the Grizzlies, possibly producing a 7-2 record, pandemonium could break out in Doncic Dallas land. Banners will be unfurled. Trumpets will blare. Twitter will explode. Championship here we come! It's a long season, folks. Those who bash Bagley as a means to vent their frustration about missing out on the Second Coming should give it a rest. At least until we're in the latter half of the 82 game season.

You draft big men for defense, that’s where the vast majority of them show their value. It was beyond foolish to draft a big man with a top pick without a defensive pedigree when there was a big wing with an elite offensive skill set available.

 

[jcassio]

True. Vlade always seems to give in to what the player wants, even if it means bleeding talent. He is not a GM that will hold a player against their will to stay with the Kings.

We saw it with WCS, Seth Curry, Skal, Aaron Afllalo, (maybe Giles now?) etc. If a player is not happy, Vlade will make every effort to move them or release them.

He doesn't play hard ball with the players and I think that is a weakness when you are a GM. He should be doing what is best for the team and not necessarily the player.

You are correct, up to a point. I think we can all agree that when someone doesn’t want to play for your team, or be your teammate, it is best to clear them out before they cause problems (intentionally or otherwise).
Of course, you want to manage your assets properly at the same time. But gone are the days when it was an option to tell a disgruntled employee to suck it up and keep working. These days that virus mushrooms into a productivity and/or worker satisfaction issue that spreads like wildfire.