[Game] Kings v. Magic - Friday, March 9 - 7 PT

[LoungeLizard]

Where is Adam Silver after this game dishing out the warnings and fines? The Magic intentionally sat Aaron Gordon and Evan Fournier.

Intentionally resting healthy players! No ifs ands or buts about it !

I saw those guys against the Lakers. They were perfectly healthy. If they play they beat us by 10-15 points.

As far as I am concerned last night was the worst game of the season.

You have the Kings fans lapping it up like trained seals with Temple going for 20, Koufos going for 16 and Vince Carter going for 15.

What is the point?!?! Veterans leading the charge to nowhere and hurting our chances at Bagley, Ayton and Bamba.

Mason has been slightly discouraging lately with empty forays to the hoop.

Buddy is throwing the ball all over and his juke moves are not creating separation.

So two of our "core players" are limping to the finish line.

Mason is a player with a fearless warrior mentality. I like him and still have faith in him. But you need to have the speed and savvy to get those interior shots off. I don't know if he has it. He's going to the rim and getting smothered and throwing up trash. Not good.

It is time to shift the tank into high gear and last night it went in reverse.

Unless Adam Silver is all bark and no bite, I expect repercussions against the Magic for their shameless disregard to compete with integrity.

They tossed in the towel before the tipoff and it is patently obvious to anyone paying attention.

It really is getting out of hand. Now it looks like the Suns might sit Booker, Warren, and Jackson today against the Hornets. And don’t forget about the Grizzlies who shut down Tyreke, had already shut down Conley well before that and are trotting out Ben McLemore for 35 minutes a game. Hard to compete with Tanks that strong.

 

[Joshoua]

It really is getting out of hand. Now it looks like the Suns might sit Booker, Warren, and Jackson today against the Hornets. And don’t forget about the Grizzlies who shut down Tyreke, had already shut down Conley well before that and are trotting out Ben McLemore for 35 minutes a game. Hard to compete with Tanks that strong.

Ya we’re overreacting teams are tanking in ways we can’t compete. Atlanta and Memphis have an 8 man rotation of straight dleague players and won’t ein another game. It is what it is the nba just needs to rig it and reward us and Chicago for not doing that crap. They had the nerve to warn Chicago when those 2 teams should have there picks stripped

 

[Larry David]

It doesn't seem we rated Giles over Jackson who was a fairly middling project.

The narrative is the Kings looked at the medicals, the Kings knew he needed one year in the shop, and after that he was a good bet to be a top shelf prospect again. Is that it? The Kings were the only smart team in the room?

Nobody at 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, or 19 could see that? Picks 16 to 19 are traded all the time. There weren't 5-7 other teams that saw the medicals and the upside and said, yeah, we think he could be really good after a year and we'd wait a year. Giles agent was out pushing the medicals and that narrative to anyone that would look at them for both his client and the commission.

The Kings were the one team that realized it would be pretty easy to rehab Giles after a year and 5-15 teams blew it?

Or he was not an elite prospect in Jine and the Kings training staff did what 5-15 teams thought very unlikely?

Both seem like non-sense, but I'm curious which one is being pushed. I wonder if the Kings hacks even know which of those two narratives they are pushing.

 

[upinsmoke]

It doesn't seem we rated Giles over Jackson who was a fairly middling project.

The narrative is the Kings looked at the medicals, the Kings knew he needed one year in the shop, and after that he was a good bet to be a top shelf prospect again. Is that it? The Kings were the only smart team in the room?

Nobody at 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, or 19 could see that? Picks 16 to 19 are traded all the time. There weren't 5-7 other teams that saw the medicals and the upside and said, yeah, we think he could be really good after a year and we'd wait a year. Giles agent was out pushing the medicals and that narrative to anyone that would look at them for both his client and the commission.

The Kings were the one team that realized it would be pretty easy to rehab Giles after a year and 5-15 teams blew it?

Or he was not an elite prospect in Jine and the Kings training staff did what 5-15 teams thought very unlikely?

Both seem like non-sense, but I'm curious which one is being pushed. I wonder if the Kings hacks even know which of those two narratives they are pushing.

It's unwritten, that's why we watch.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm certainly not counting on Giles to be the team's savior and hope that whoever we draft this year has more immediate impact but the guy was a legit #1 prospect before he got injured (on contact plays) and we have rested him all year even after he's been cleared (oh hey, tanking!) because the team thinks he can be a guy to build around.

I expect him to be around mid-lotto territory when he does start playing. With some rust.

 

[Kingster]

Vlade should not have dumped Papa. We could have developed him and used him as the ultimate tank card.

This gets a "Like" just for humor alone.

 

[Larry David]

I expect him to be around mid-lotto territory when he does start playing.

Hey, to each their own. And I'm not looking to "come at you" but I'm legitimately curious. Do you think that 1/3 of the league mis-evaluated his medical condition last June, properly evaluated his condition and were simply unwilling to wait for a mid-lottery talent for a year, or the Kings performed an unlikely medical outcome upgrading a guy in one year from the value of the 20th pick to 8th pick?

I'm curious of the logic behind the idea that Giles l would go mid-lottery in this draft because I don't see that as reasonable.

 

[Joshoua]

It doesn't seem we rated Giles over Jackson who was a fairly middling project.

The narrative is the Kings looked at the medicals, the Kings knew he needed one year in the shop, and after that he was a good bet to be a top shelf prospect again. Is that it? The Kings were the only smart team in the room?

Nobody at 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, or 19 could see that? Picks 16 to 19 are traded all the time. There weren't 5-7 other teams that saw the medicals and the upside and said, yeah, we think he could be really good after a year and we'd wait a year. Giles agent was out pushing the medicals and that narrative to anyone that would look at them for both his client and the commission.

The Kings were the one team that realized it would be pretty easy to rehab Giles after a year and 5-15 teams blew it?

Or he was not an elite prospect in Jine and the Kings training staff did what 5-15 teams thought very unlikely?

Both seem like non-sense, but I'm curious which one is being pushed. I wonder if the Kings hacks even know which of those two narratives they are pushing.

Smh

Why didn’t Draymond Green go in the 1st round was GSW the only one to tell he could play PF and shoot.

Why did teams pass on Donavonn Mitchell was only Utah able to see his potential

This stuff happens maybe teams don’t see anything in Giles that doesn’t mean he can’t be good. Just cause other teams didn’t want him means 0 for his future. The kid wasn’t healthy last year and you could tell don’t know why he played at all. After a year of proper training and rehabilitation he could be a good player. Reports are he has his athleticism back that’s big part of his game

 

[Larry David]

Smh

Why didn’t Draymond Green go in the 1st round was GSW the only one to tell he could play PF and shoot.

Why did teams pass on Donavonn Mitchell was only Utah able to see his potential

This stuff happens maybe teams don’t see anything in Giles that doesn’t mean he can’t be good. Just cause other teams didn’t want him means 0 for his future. The kid wasn’t healthy last year and you could tell don’t know why he played at all. After a year of proper training and rehabilitation he could be a good player. Reports are he has his athleticism back that’s big part of his game

Those players weren't tabbed to be franchise player before their draft. Giles was supposed to be a super star. Then he was no longer a top prospect because most did not like him medically as a prospect.

That wouldn't have anything to do with Mitchell or Green. Brandon Roy maybe. Folks hated his knees coming out of college. Some teams were "wrong" on his medical and he was an all star. He fell to 7. But, eventually those knees got him.

Many scouts looked at Draymond and said, I'm not sure he can be effective in the NBA. Many doctors looked at Giles and told the scouts, I'm not sure he can be effective in the NBA. There is a big difference there

 

[VF21]

Willie was out; DeFox was out. Coach didn't play Z-Bo. Shumpert is still out with plantar fasciitis. I fail to understand some of your hand-wringing and wailing. I didn't even bother to log on to the board during the game because I knew how it would be. I am proud that our organization is not stooping to the level of some teams in their quest to job the system. That's character, IMHO. And it's just my opinion. Primarily, I'm just hoping that those who don't view tanking as the be all end all won't give up posting all-together (and some have). The negativity around here is sucking the joy out of posting for a number of some of our long-time members, along with some newer ones.

Just my two cents...

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Hey, to each their own. And I'm not looking to "come at you" but I'm legitimately curious. Do you think that 1/3 of the league mis-evaluated his medical condition last June, properly evaluated his condition and were simply unwilling to wait for a mid-lottery talent for a year, or the Kings performed an unlikely medical outcome upgrading a guy in one year from the value of the 20th pick to 8th pick?

I'm curious of the logic behind the idea that Giles l would go mid-lottery in this draft because I don't see that as reasonable.

I think we see all the time that teams aren't willing to stash or wait on players. That's how teams like San Antonio are able to get value with their late round picks. We also were pretty good with Petrie picking in the 20s vs. guys picked in the teens. To a lesser extent we did it with Bogs when Phoenix decided they wanted a player now.

Talent is out there. Last year was a stacked draft with lots of guys teams thought could make immediate impacts.

And no, most teams don't have the luxury of just sitting a player for a full year. It's an expensive proposition especially if it doesn't work out.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Willie was out; DeFox was out. Coach didn't play Z-Bo. Shumpert is still out with plantar fasciitis. I fail to understand some of your hand-wringing and wailing. I didn't even bother to log on to the board during the game because I knew how it would be. I am proud that our organization is not stooping to the level of some teams in their quest to job the system. That's character, IMHO. And it's just my opinion. Primarily, I'm just hoping that those who don't view tanking as the be all end all won't give up posting all-together (and some have). The negativity around here is sucking the joy out of posting for a number of some of our long-time members, along with some newer ones.

Just my two cents...

Rebuilding is certainly easier when you pick 1-3 for 3 years straight. I still think we'd have all been miserable with what Philly did, even though we still sucked trying to win with Boogie. The organization was in total disarray and I think the organization is strong now. 2019 pick is unfortunate but water under the bridge. But living in Portland, I see the Blazers basically have the inverse of our record and they picked below us almost every year since we've sucked again. You can build a decent playoff program picking 6-10 for a few years. And if you have guys that fight and win (or want to) and don't cry to the refs all season maybe they get some respect and start getting calls once they've paid their dues. I like what I'm seeing even though I am sad we're "playing ourselves out of a top pick".

Obvs this isn't directed at you but more in accordance. We're trying to build something here that we've lacked for years and that's because the culture of the Kings was sh**. Some of these teams (Phoenix, Orlando, Atlanta, possibly Memphis and maybe even Dallas) I think are going to have very extended recovery periods because they are tolerating, encouraging and rewarding trash.

 

[Telemachus]

Hey, to each their own. And I'm not looking to "come at you" but I'm legitimately curious. Do you think that 1/3 of the league mis-evaluated his medical condition last June, properly evaluated his condition and were simply unwilling to wait for a mid-lottery talent for a year, or the Kings performed an unlikely medical outcome upgrading a guy in one year from the value of the 20th pick to 8th pick?

I'm curious of the logic behind the idea that Giles l would go mid-lottery in this draft because I don't see that as reasonable.

Most teams only had 1 1st rd pick. That means you have to get it right. Even if your doctors tell you the risks are minimal, it is still a risk with his injuries. That is why most teams don't start taking those risks until the 20s. The Kings had 3 picks which gave them more leeway to take that risk.

Why do you think OG Anunoby lasted till pick 23?

 

[Joshoua]

Those players weren't tabbed to be franchise player before their draft. Giles was supposed to be a super star. Then he was no longer a top prospect because most did not like him medically as a prospect.

That wouldn't have anything to do with Mitchell or Green. Brandon Roy maybe. Folks hated his knees coming out of college. Some teams were "wrong" on his medical and he was an all star. He fell to 7. But, eventually those knees got him.

Many scouts looked at Draymond and said, I'm not sure he can be effective in the NBA. Many doctors looked at Giles and told the scouts, I'm not sure he can be effective in the NBA. There is a big difference there

Well he’s said to have his athleticism back so I believe in him he doesn’t have to be a star. Just rebound, good passer, good defense, and be an athlete. I expect that stuff from him

 

[gunks]

I'll say this about Giles, I'm not counting on him to be the next C-Webb, like the FO keeps hinting at, but the potential is still kinda fun to think about.

He's an enigma. His knees might be toast, or prone to injury, but he might also be a beast. Probably somewhere in the middle.

It's depressing that he's who a lot of us have pinned our optimism on though.

There is just nothing else for us to get excited about. Fox and Skal are major projects. Bogs is good, but probably not going to get much better. JJ and Mason are ok. WCS is soft. And our pick is looking worse every week.

Just a bummer year.

 

[ParniValjak]

Most teams only had 1 1st rd pick. That means you have to get it right. Even if your doctors tell you the risks are minimal, it is still a risk with his injuries. That is why most teams don't start taking those risks until the 20s. The Kings had 3 picks which gave them more leeway to take that risk.

Why do you think OG Anunoby lasted till pick 23?

This pretty much sums it up! Its a risk vs reward thing and how much of an appetite does organization have for risk.

Rightly or wrongly, teams though the risk was higher for them than they were willing to take. Kings had 3 first round pick and used their last 1st round pick to take a risk on Giles. I think the value was there and I am sure if other teams had 3 first round picks, they would have been more open to picking Giles.

I really don’t have a problem with picking Giles and seeing if you get lucky. I think any smart franchise in our position would have done the same regardless of the medical report.

The kid obviously had talent but he has missed a great deal of development. What Kings are doing with him is what I hoped they would do. Work with him, put hours and hours of development into him and see what you have at the end of it. While I am reluctant to buy into the hype without seeing it myself, I don’t think its too far fetched that Giles could become a very good to excellent player in the NBA. Odds are probably stacked against him especially considering the injuries and maybe more importantly missed development time. Time will tell if he will live up to the hype but I can’t fault Kings taking a risk at him with pick 20 when you already had two first round picks in the top 15 and a roster stacked with young players.

 

[Telemachus]

I think some are missing where the hype is coming from on Giles. This isn't like some players in the past where the hype is coming from Grant along with snippets from the front office. Almost all the hype has come from his teammates. Players who have given glowing reviews of Giles are VC, Randolph, Temple, Fox, and Bogie (I may have missed one). Doug Christie has also had great things to say after watching him in practice.

Now this doesn't mean he will be good by any means, but gives me much more reason for hope than if it was just coming from Grant and the FO.

 

[ParniValjak]

I think some are missing where the hype is coming from on Giles. This isn't like some players in the past where the hype is coming from Grant along with snippets from the front office. Almost all the hype has come from his teammates. Players who have given glowing reviews of Giles are VC, Randolph, Temple, Fox, and Bogie (I may have missed one). Doug Christie has also had great things to say after watching him in practice.

Now this doesn't mean he will be good by any means, but gives me much more reason for hope than if it was just coming from Grant and the FO.

Well let’s be honest, teammates will always give glowing reviews of their teammates. Temple was giving rave reviews about Skal last year too.

Christie will also back in his friends and give the, positive PR, hence the talk of Giles. Quite frankly, I am not taking any note of the hype comiout of the organization and those connected to it. Let’s be honest, they do it every year even at the slightest hint of something solid. It’s how Kings roll. It’s their propaganda to give hope and sell season tickets for next season and so it goes on.

My hope comes from what Giles was in high school. The raw talent was there, can that be rediscovered now that he is reportedly healthy? I sure hope so but I am not pinning my hopes on it.

My point since DMC trade has always been that Kings need to hit home runs in both 2017 and 2018 drafts to minimize the hurt that losing 2019 pick is going to bring (and make no mistake it will be a lottery pick and it will hurt).

The jury is still out on 2017 draft and we will see what happens with 2018. Fox showes flashes but there is still a LOT to work on and its not just shooting. JJ is a 3 and D guy at best which is not a bad thing. Giles is a big unknown if we are completely honest. Mason is going to be a pretty solid back up PG in the league for a long time to come and we are yet to see what happens in 2018.

Based on what we have seen so far, there is NOT enough talent on the roster now to make this a perennial contender any time soon. Some very nice talent but still more unknown than knowns at this stage.

 

[Joshoua]

Well let’s be honest, teammates will always give glowing reviews of their teammates. Temple was giving rave reviews about Skal last year too.

Christie will also back in his friends and give the, positive PR, hence the talk of Giles. Quite frankly, I am not taking any note of the hype comiout of the organization and those connected to it. Let’s be honest, they do it every year even at the slightest hint of something solid. It’s how Kings roll. It’s their propaganda to give hope and sell season tickets for next season and so it goes on.

My hope comes from what Giles was in high school. The raw talent was there, can that be rediscovered now that he is reportedly healthy? I sure hope so but I am not pinning my hopes on it.

My point since DMC trade has always been that Kings need to hit home runs in both 2017 and 2018 drafts to minimize the hurt that losing 2019 pick is going to bring (and make no mistake it will be a lottery pick and it will hurt).

The jury is still out on 2017 draft and we will see what happens with 2018. Fox showes flashes but there is still a LOT to work on and its not just shooting. JJ is a 3 and D guy at best which is not a bad thing. Giles is a big unknown if we are completely honest. Mason is going to be a pretty solid back up PG in the league for a long time to come and we are yet to see what happens in 2018.

Based on what we have seen so far, there is NOT enough talent on the roster now to make this a perennial contender any time soon. Some very nice talent but still more unknown than knowns at this stage.

It’s not like there saying outrageous things like he’s a great 1on1 scorer unstoppable player. We here he’s a great screen setter, passer, and an elite athlete all things we saw in high school to go along with a great rebounder

 

[hrdboild]

I'm not mad that we won that game. Orlando made it impossible for us to lose. We sat two of our starters, willingly took terrible shots, threw the ball all over the gym, and still won. I am mad that we have to stoop to this level just to have a fair crack at a top 3 pick. Something has to change with the way the lottery works. We trade our franchise player for table scraps last year and we can't even get one top 3 pick out of it? Not to mention we haven't had a top 3 pick in this entire 12 year run of missing the playoffs. I'm not sweating Phoenix or Atlanta. They're similarly talent starved. But Memphis has been in the playoffs 7 years in a row. There's no way they're suddenly the worst team in the league. Dallas isn't even trying at this point. Orlando has been to the Finals, lost their franchise guy, drafted Oladipo 2nd overall and still continues to suck. Why do we have to endure this ridiculous charade year after year? Why can't we just get our top 3 pick once a decade and move on to playing games that matter like everyone else?

 

[Kingsfan23]

As I said, I love the team, but this incarnation is just not supportable unfortunately. From the youth not showing out, Joerger not respecting the pick, FO.

When I pay attention to this team again, in mid July, post draft/Free agency, I want a new look and something to believe in

 

[King Baller]

JACK COOLEY!!!!!, ANY QUESTIONS?????

 

[ParniValjak]

It’s not like there saying outrageous things like he’s a great 1on1 scorer unstoppable player. We here he’s a great screen setter, passer, and an elite athlete all things we saw in high school to go along with a great rebounder

So things like “could end up being best from his draft class” is not settling up lofty expectations given how good the draft class has been?

 

[King Baller]

Hey, to each their own. And I'm not looking to "come at you" but I'm legitimately curious. Do you think that 1/3 of the league mis-evaluated his medical condition last June, properly evaluated his condition and were simply unwilling to wait for a mid-lottery talent for a year, or the Kings performed an unlikely medical outcome upgrading a guy in one year from the value of the 20th pick to 8th pick?

I'm curious of the logic behind the idea that Giles l would go mid-lottery in this draft because I don't see that as reasonable.

Hey well Donovan Mitchell was drafted 14th and is the Top Rookie this season. !3 teams passed on him and all the rest did not make the trade Utah did to make sure they got him. So the majority of the teams failed on evaluating Mitchell, why not Giles also?

 

[ppine]

The Kings are a crummy team. I still like them, but watching the game against the Magic was a test.
When you follow a crummy team, it makes no sense to complain about tanking by others. It is what we are really good at.

 

[Larry David]

Hey well Donovan Mitchell was drafted 14th and is the Top Rookie this season. !3 teams passed on him and all the rest did not make the trade Utah did to make sure they got him. So the majority of the teams failed on evaluating Mitchell, why not Giles also?

Both are possible, I'm saying top doctors tend to be more accurate predicting medical outcomes for players than scouts evaluating how a college basket player's game will translate to the NBA. And I think the last 20 years of drafts among players with medical issues vs production variance questions bears that out.

But, hey. Maybe the Kings lucked out on this one.

 

[kingsboi]

Hey well Donovan Mitchell was drafted 14th and is the Top Rookie this season. !3 teams passed on him and all the rest did not make the trade Utah did to make sure they got him. So the majority of the teams failed on evaluating Mitchell, why not Giles also?

Got to hand it to Utah, their two core players, Mitchell & Gobert were drafted late.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Got to hand it to Utah, their two core players, Mitchell & Gobert were drafted late.

And, interestingly enough, both with picks that they acquired from the Nuggets. You think Denver would have learned the first time.

 

[Joshoua]

Both are possible, I'm saying top doctors tend to be more accurate predicting medical outcomes for players than scouts evaluating how a college basket player's game will translate to the NBA. And I think the last 20 years of drafts among players with medical issues vs production variance questions bears that out.

But, hey. Maybe the Kings lucked out on this one.

Where is this information coming from that other doctors didn’t clear Giles

 

[Larry David]

Where is this information coming from that other doctors didn’t clear Giles

I didn’t say didn’t clear him to be drafted. I’m talking about the assessments each team made regarding Giles probabilities of different recovery outcomes.

The basis of my knowledge is the standard way a situation of this nature is handled over 30 years if the agent makes the medicals available. There have been instances where a team or two doesn’t get medicals trying to scare them away, like the Kings a lot and Portzings and the 76ers. By all accounts Giles agent wasn’t holding them back. Since they wanted him to go in the 1st round and as high as possible, the records were reportedly around and logically so.