Zach LaVine revisited

#1
I'm not one to jump the gun after only a handful of games, but I'm going to do exactly that in this case and be the first to admit that it looks as if I was wrong about him.

Zach is looking exactly like the alpha scorer the Kings needed. And he's doing it fairly efficiently.

While he always played well against the Kings, there was just something about his game I never liked. But I can certainly see why Vlade and the FO offered him that contract now. They were right and I was wrong.

Just sayin....
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#2
how is his efficiency? usage rate? Not saying I didn't want him on board, he's a talent and can score the ball, easily would replace him for Buddy
 
#5
He’s looked better than I thought, and I can’t say his signing would’ve been as bad as I thought in the offseason, but still question if his offensive, gunner style is particularly effective long term.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#10
Here's to hoping the Kings can give LaVine's $$$ (plus more) to Khris Middleton next summer.


My problem with Lavine was his lack of shot discipline. He's always been able to do a little bit of everything. He can play the point, or SG, and can play some SF with the right matchup. Terrific athlete who would have fit in perfectly on the Kings squad. I felt it was just a matter of maturing. He always played like he was a star, and now it looks like he may finally be one.
 
#12
My problem with Lavine was his lack of shot discipline. He's always been able to do a little bit of everything. He can play the point, or SG, and can play some SF with the right matchup. Terrific athlete who would have fit in perfectly on the Kings squad. I felt it was just a matter of maturing. He always played like he was a star, and now it looks like he may finally be one.
Experiment with Lavine as a PG failed, he was terrible. You would expect that he at least develop awarness a bit, but no, he never passes. He can score as a SG or SF, on defense he is versatile, he doesn't defend anyone. However, on offense, he is killing now. I still expect him to deorbit, then he will be clearly net negative. We will see.
 
#13
I'm just glad were not the Wolves. Gave up LaVine and Dunn for a disgruntled Butler. That team has some serious bad misfortune.
I liked LaVine in UCLA, we had a shot at him, who did we take that year again?
 
#15
all three games the Bulls have played


or Klay...he said he won't take any team discounts so make him an offer he can't refuse
Your post got me curious about Klay. It may be his playing for the Warriors and their system but his career stats are not eye-popping, 2.3 APG and 3.4 RPG. His just less then 20PPG works.
Is he a good piece in a great system, or an all-star capable of carrying a team and worthy of an offer he can't refuse.
 
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#19
Your post got me curious about Klay. It may be his playing for the Warriors and their system but his career stats are not eye-popping, 2.3 APG and 3.4 RPG. His just less then 20PPG works.
Is he a good piece in a great system, or an all-star capable of carrying a team and worthy of an offer he can't refuse.
Klay?? Klay THOMPSON???? is this facetious? He is a dead eye lights out shooter phenom wouldn't any Kings fan do cartwheels to get him?
 
#20
Klay?? Klay THOMPSON???? is this facetious? He is a dead eye lights out shooter phenom wouldn't any Kings fan do cartwheels to get him?
Your post got me curious about Klay. It may be his playing for the Warriors and their system but his career stats are not eye-popping, 2.3 APG and 3.4 RPG. His just less then 20PPG works.
Is he a good piece in a great system, or an all-star capable of carrying a team and worthy of an offer he can't refuse.
Yeah I've always kind of thought about that. Klay seems to me to be the ultimate Kobe to Shaq or Scottie to Michael. That definitively second option on a great team.

I don't know how well he would do as the clear number one option. Whoever does get him, if he leaves the Warriors, needs to make their offense like that Indiana Pacer offense with Reggie Miller. They need to run him off multiple screens and surround him with high basketball IQ players.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#21
Your post got me curious about Klay. It may be his playing for the Warriors and their system but his career stats are not eye-popping, 2.3 APG and 3.4 RPG. His just less then 20PPG works.
Is he a good piece in a great system, or an all-star capable of carrying a team and worthy of an offer he can't refuse.
he's a quality two way guard who can spread the floor and will go down as one of the best shooters in the history of the league so I'd imagine throwing a good amount of money his way is worth the risk in my opinion.
 
#22
Klay?? Klay THOMPSON???? is this facetious? He is a dead eye lights out shooter phenom wouldn't any Kings fan do cartwheels to get him?
True, but I also think, based on his on-court personality, that there is no way he would ever be interested in playing for the Siberia Kings. Third option on that team is one thing -- if he was getting the first option defensive attention, he wouldn't have nearly as many opportunities to be arrogant.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#23
One of the criticisms of going after LaVine was that we didn't need to get a guy at the 2. Last night certainly showed why we did need to get a guy that plays the 2. It's not like the Kings are loaded with All Stars at the SG position. If they Kings have a chance at that kind of talent at SG in the future, I hope they again go after him.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#24
Experiment with Lavine as a PG failed, he was terrible. You would expect that he at least develop awarness a bit, but no, he never passes. He can score as a SG or SF, on defense he is versatile, he doesn't defend anyone. However, on offense, he is killing now. I still expect him to deorbit, then he will be clearly net negative. We will see.
Certainly wasn't suggesting that anyone start Lavine at the Point, but was saying that he is capable of filling in there if needed on occasion. One mistake people make with players is not letting go of the player that first arrived and seeing the player that's in front of them now. Players improve and change their game over time, and it's players like Lavine that you have to keep your eye on because of their obvious potential.

First time I saw Oladipo play, I thought man, if this kid could just shoot 34 or 35% from the three he could be something special. For some stupid reason the Magic thought they could convert him into a PG and slowed his progress. But two trades and five years later, he was a totally different player and an all star. He got better! But it took him five years to reach that potential. As I've said before, we live in a instant gratification society. Everyone wants it right now.
 
#25
Part of what I liked about the idea of signing LaVine, he could have made his name with the Kings. I always liked what I saw in his game and the way he carried himself going back to his season at UCLA. Seems now he is putting it all together.
I wasn't being facetious about Klay, just curious and wanted to see how people think about him as and as not a Warrior. By the end of this season some of our youth should look like pretty attractive teammates to big name players, and my guess is the Kings are positioning themselves for throwing big dollars at someone again next off-season.
 
#27
The fans in particular the zombified minions at Sactown Royalty were wrong about leading ROY candidate MB3 and arguably our most consistent player over 5 games and they were wrong about Zach LaVine. The guy is a baller who can play the three with his size and trend of the league. He would have fit beautifully with our uptempo run and gun as I emphatically said at the time. This was Vlade's vision. I was hoping beyond hope the Bulls would decline to match our 4/80 offer but it was not meant to be. Vlade made a bold play with merit while the critics and keyboard warriors scoffed. Now they have egg on their faces as they move on to their next unsubstantiated assertion. Will they admit to their former miscalculation? Don't hold your breath!

In 4 games LaVine is averaging 33 PPG on 57% FGs 40% on threes . You can nitpick at the holes in his games but to fill it up with this type of efficiency speaks to his talent at age 23. It didn't occur to me at the time of his free agency but LaVine is similar to Devin Booker. Both players can be a bit shot happy and lackadaisical but they create gravity and headaches when they are on. You don't think that is the type of guy you can build around and add to core on D-Fox and MB3 ??? 90% of the fans thought the answer was "no". This is because they are too quick to buy into false narratives and consensus sentiment. Meanwhile we are left with Jackson playing more minutes than warranted and giving you one decent game out of 5 when the opponent falls asleep on him long enough that he can make "target practice" type shots. Jackson is similar to Lonzo Bust. He garners disrespect from the opponent then makes his move when disrespect is at maximum and defensive resistance at minimum.

Encouragingly, Shumpert has shown revitalization signs before last night DNP-CD. I like Shumpert. He has swagger and veteran poise. In many ways Shumpert is the exact type of player we need! He is feisty on D and has leadership skills. As long as he is selective with his shots and feeds off the attention D-Fox receives and feasts off the penetration of Yogi and Mason (another guy many of the fans got wrong, leading us in PER after after leading us in preseason PER too) Shumpert can be a revelation after being an afterthought. Shumpert can be valuable on two levels (1) his own complementary glue-like play (2) taking minutes away from two phonies, Ben and Jackson.

Now circling back I would like to address the criticism of LaVine's D in general and in this thread. If you don't defend and you are egregious in your effort, if you are just falling asleep and seemingly not giving a damn, it is incumbent on the coach to bear consequences upon the afflicting party. The authority figure has to lay out ground rules and implement them. Did you happen to notice my fellow Kings fans that Giles sat on the bench all of the second half? In addition to coughing the ball up 4 times in 7 minutes further contributing to his negative PER, he couldn't defend his own shadow. In the preseason Giles showed passing and post game on offense and little to nothing on defense. Continuing to get torched on D as the regular season began has now adversely affected his offense. It is an ugly spiral and ominous beginning with a disconcerting floor being established relative to his potential. If this keeps up his confidence will be shattered and tenure short lived. A player used to dominating is being dominated. His mind is spinning in a reality to which he is unaccustomed. The point being however that Joerger did not reward this ineptitude, specifically being unable to do anything with force or anticipation on defensive end, with playing time in the pivotal half. The same would theoretically apply to LaVine. Lock in or sit down. Missed shots happen. But if you are a mannequin on defense you don't play.

Giles is playing his way out of the rotation and to Stockton. I have a couple of theories on this kid I won't go into now. But what keeps you on the floor and rotation is being able to hang defensively. One reason I knew Bagley was going to produce (21 PER 14/7 with one steal and one block 58% FGs) off his preseason is he was hanging defensively. He was not fouling and he was keeping his man between him whether in the paint or perimeter. It is interesting Bagley has been our best or Top 3 performer and Giles our worst when after Summer League the opposite was forecast, that is, Giles was more ready than Bagley to contribute. Once again, another example of not trusting the consensus so readily. Bagley is going to have a 25/15 performance in the next 5-10 games. He is a favorite of Joerger and goes out his way to get him on the floor and get him the ball. That's revelation for a coach with reputation of disdain for rookies. As discouraging and dispiriting as Giles has been Bagley has been as encouraging and exciting. Divergent paths are rooted in the tangible and intangible. Confidence is a fragile thing. One player has it and one does not. Unfortunately one player may not have the base or burst required to compete in an unforgiving league. If you cannot explode or move well in any direction but straight line, you cannot make enough plays to be formidable. Whether psychological or physical Giles needs to find his legs and henceforth his confidence or go back onto the IR. As far as I can tell Harry cannot move laterally or vertically with any degree of certainty or force and that is sort of important to the game of basketball.

I think we should give Harry another 5-10 games to turn it around. I will be rooting for him. Otherwise it is time to give those minutes to Skal or Koufos.
 
#30
Did you read the article and watch the videos?
No. Because the article you linked to requires a subscription to read.

I did see the video and as awful as it is, it's something I often see some KINGS players doing or not doing, however you choose to word it.

Do you need to see an article or a video to already know that the KINGS defense has often been pretty awful too?