Who Goes? Who Stays?
- Thread starter Kingster
- Start date
so you anticipate that both of the kings' major midseason acquisitions will be gone, leaving the team back at square 1 at SF? barring a jump into the top-3 of the draft that results in the kings selecting either jabari parker or andrew wiggins, i seriously doubt that both rudy gay and derrick williams will be gone prior to the beginning of next season. at the very least, rudy gay should be retained as trade bait; if he opts out and is re-signed to a reasonable deal, then he becomes a valuable player asset again, and if he chooses to remain on his current deal, then he becomes a valuable ending contract for those looking to make a splash in the flashy 2015 free agent class...
I believe the thinking is that if he opts out, there's a good chance he signs somewhere else.
For instance, the Lakers are going to be about 7 bazillion dollars under the cap and will be looking to sign an impact free agent this year and keep enough money to give Love a max contract next year. If LeBron doesn't opt out of his contract, is Rudy the best FA on the market? I don't know, but he's close. If the Lakers offer him a contract, he has to choose between a team that has been struggling for the past decade (but has Cousins) or a team that has been historically great (and has Kobe, and will promise they will go hard after Kevin Love in a year). Frankly, I'm worried.
For instance, the Lakers are going to be about 7 bazillion dollars under the cap and will be looking to sign an impact free agent this year and keep enough money to give Love a max contract next year. If LeBron doesn't opt out of his contract, is Rudy the best FA on the market? I don't know, but he's close. If the Lakers offer him a contract, he has to choose between a team that has been struggling for the past decade (but has Cousins) or a team that has been historically great (and has Kobe, and will promise they will go hard after Kevin Love in a year). Frankly, I'm worried.
Here is a question. If Isaiah Thomas is retained, who's a better fit on this roster, Rudy Gay or Luol Deng?
PDA went HARD after Iguodala last offseason. Deng is a similar player who's spent years with the best defensive coach in the NBA. Not as offensively gifted as Gay, obviously, but he'd help solve the 'too many people looking for their own offense' thing.
I don't know the right answer. If Thomas is let go, I'm taking Gay, but if he isn't and Gay opts out, Deng would be a nice target to consider. And one that might actually work out better for the team despite what the statistics would say.
PDA went HARD after Iguodala last offseason. Deng is a similar player who's spent years with the best defensive coach in the NBA. Not as offensively gifted as Gay, obviously, but he'd help solve the 'too many people looking for their own offense' thing.
I don't know the right answer. If Thomas is let go, I'm taking Gay, but if he isn't and Gay opts out, Deng would be a nice target to consider. And one that might actually work out better for the team despite what the statistics would say.
Was just thinking about that too, and I forget that Deng is a UFA this summer as well. The questions are: how much room would this team have under the cap if Gay opts out, and how much would you offer to Deng? And second, would he want to come here? He seemed to think the Bulls' $10 million extension was laughable, and I think has expressed since the Cavs trade that he wants to play for a winner.
I'm hoping for upgrades at PG/SG/PF, while keeping Rudy/Boogie the focus. Bulld around those two with better fitting and more experienced players.
Who is the backup PG, IT or Ray? I can see strong arguments for both. IT would be great offensive punch coming off the bench while Ray is a better defender, mover of the ball and would likely be far cheaper. Starting Ray and moving IT to 6th man is an option, but that will require a fair mount more money going to our PG rotation and will the success on the court coincide with the increased investment there? It would certainly limit our options elsewhere while capping our ceiling.
Ben showed improvement but if we're serious about being a playoff team next year, we need an upgrade at the 2 while letting Ben to continue developing behind him.
And we need an upgrade at PF. I like Reggie but we can do better. A question is where does JT fit going forward. Would you prefer Reggie being the backup 4 or JT? Would you prefer JT being the backup center? How much does his salary handicap options?
And these questions are largely dependent on whether the FO wants to continue the rebuild by acquiring more young talent and waiting for them to develop or whether they are serious about getting to the postseason. If you want to be a playoff team in this conference, I don't think a IT/Ben or Ray/Ben backcourt gets you there next year. And when Vivek says "we have to get Cuz some help", throwing out the same backcourt and/or adding more youth doesn't accomplish that. If I'm PDA, I'm shopping our pick like crazy unless it's top 3 as we need an impact player.
Who is the backup PG, IT or Ray? I can see strong arguments for both. IT would be great offensive punch coming off the bench while Ray is a better defender, mover of the ball and would likely be far cheaper. Starting Ray and moving IT to 6th man is an option, but that will require a fair mount more money going to our PG rotation and will the success on the court coincide with the increased investment there? It would certainly limit our options elsewhere while capping our ceiling.
Ben showed improvement but if we're serious about being a playoff team next year, we need an upgrade at the 2 while letting Ben to continue developing behind him.
And we need an upgrade at PF. I like Reggie but we can do better. A question is where does JT fit going forward. Would you prefer Reggie being the backup 4 or JT? Would you prefer JT being the backup center? How much does his salary handicap options?
And these questions are largely dependent on whether the FO wants to continue the rebuild by acquiring more young talent and waiting for them to develop or whether they are serious about getting to the postseason. If you want to be a playoff team in this conference, I don't think a IT/Ben or Ray/Ben backcourt gets you there next year. And when Vivek says "we have to get Cuz some help", throwing out the same backcourt and/or adding more youth doesn't accomplish that. If I'm PDA, I'm shopping our pick like crazy unless it's top 3 as we need an impact player.
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I'd have no problem with Deng on the team (though I don't think he'd be interested in our current stage of development). I personally would not be thrilled about another year with IT starting at point (but it would be slightly more tolerable without another major scorer in the starting lineup). Still not an ideal team.
It'll be interesting. If Gay opts out, I think the likelyhood that the Kings retain Thomas goes WAY up in a 'Oh crap, we just lost Gay, we can't lose two 20pt scorers in the same season' kind of way.
In which case I'd turn to Deng, who may or may not be interested in coming here. But neither was Iggy, right? The Kings offered him the most money and he still balked. They could try the same tactic with Deng, and we won't know if it will work until we try. I will say this, though, before Gay got here I would have thought Deng would have been a much more obvious Michael Malone type guy.
Hinrich is also a free agent. Maybe they are buddies? I don't know. I'd bring Hinrich in as a backup 1/2 with Ray. They can interchange between those spots.
In which case I'd turn to Deng, who may or may not be interested in coming here. But neither was Iggy, right? The Kings offered him the most money and he still balked. They could try the same tactic with Deng, and we won't know if it will work until we try. I will say this, though, before Gay got here I would have thought Deng would have been a much more obvious Michael Malone type guy.
Hinrich is also a free agent. Maybe they are buddies? I don't know. I'd bring Hinrich in as a backup 1/2 with Ray. They can interchange between those spots.
I see two viable directions we can go. Either, we go for it next year with IT/gay/Cuz and use every other asset including the pick at our disposal to get veteran talent, and offering up IT as well in the right deal. Bit of a risk, considering how weak the supporting cast is and we really don't know what we can get pick, but certainly something we can do.
Other option is to wait another season, let Gay walk, resign IT, and let D-will, Ben, Ray, and our new pick develop for another year. Remember, after next season, quite a few of our contracts run out. If we hit on some of our young guys, we're looking at a super young talented core with tons of money to spend in the 2015 off-season.
Other option is to wait another season, let Gay walk, resign IT, and let D-will, Ben, Ray, and our new pick develop for another year. Remember, after next season, quite a few of our contracts run out. If we hit on some of our young guys, we're looking at a super young talented core with tons of money to spend in the 2015 off-season.
Looking at your list leads me to the conclusion that keeping any combo of our guys is alright for me. But guessing who stays is secondary to who do we get. I have no idea how their priority lst is stacked now and it's a crap shoot which guys they have an honest shot at. One thing I do believe is that the Kings are intent on getting more talent and if they got just two more quality guys they'd be doing well. If it were mine to do I'dget a SG who would start and a swing man with quality who could back up the 2 and 3, assuming we keep what we have.
Uhhh, Gay isn't going to opt out. There is a 0% chance that Gay walks away from $19,000,000.00 for one season of work. Besides, we are going to CRUSH the 7akers into a fine dust for years to come...for it is our destiny. I would like nothing more than to open up a black hole and send the 7akers franchise and all of their fans to the 7th layer of hell.
I think that there is a reason for him to opt out, that's to our benefit. Of course my scenario has nothing to do with the Lakers, and you could be right about that. But if I'm correct, if we were to try and give him an extension after he opts in, that extension would necessarily be very expensive because of his starting salary of 19 million. However, if he were to opt out, with the idea of resigning with us to an already agreed on contract, then we could resign him at a more equitable price. The only other option of course is for him to opt in, and we wait till the end of next season when he becomes a freeagent.
There are some benefits to waiting another year. His benefit is he makes an additional 19 mil, and also gets to see if the team is heading in the right direction. For us, we get another year to make sure Gay is what were looking for before committing a ton of money to him. Personally, if you separate the Lakers from LA and just compare the two teams, and where they are talent wise, I'd take the Kings right now. They might have Kobe on their roster, but he's just a stone's throw away from heading into the pyramid to be mummified. Take away Kobe, and who do they have? Of course you do have the smog and heavy traffic. Hard to compete with that.
There are some benefits to waiting another year. His benefit is he makes an additional 19 mil, and also gets to see if the team is heading in the right direction. For us, we get another year to make sure Gay is what were looking for before committing a ton of money to him. Personally, if you separate the Lakers from LA and just compare the two teams, and where they are talent wise, I'd take the Kings right now. They might have Kobe on their roster, but he's just a stone's throw away from heading into the pyramid to be mummified. Take away Kobe, and who do they have? Of course you do have the smog and heavy traffic. Hard to compete with that.
Who we are going to get from another team in a trade or in FA or in the draft is another question entirely.Based on last years cap, which was 58.6 mil and which should go up to around 60 mil, and based on picking up the last year of Acy's salary, we would have around 13.5 mil under the cap to work with. However that doesn't take into account IT's cap hold of $1,148,995.00. It isn't much, but it does count against our cap. If the cap goes up to around 60 mil, then were back to around 14 mil in space. I would think that's enough to sign Deng, but I'm not sure he's worth that much.
The key point in the Gay issue is that it is his choice. My guess is that when ponders staying with the Kings, he's thinking there is at best a 50-50 shot of getting to the playoffs. If he wants to be with a playoff team, a la his old Memphis team, chances are he's going to opt out. He's going to look at the Kings and think there are too many potential pitfalls with a team that is young and a Western Conference that is brutal. Even if the Kings made a major jump (See Phoenix) they still might not get into the playoffs. Better to go for a longer term contract with another team, maybe in the east.
i suppose it depends on how gay envisions the remainder of his prime. he literally just got out from under some truly embarrassing labels. his contract has long been viewed as among the worst in the entire nba. his confidence was driven into the ground by the weight of a hundred talking heads proclaiming him the most inefficient player in the league in his stint with the raptors. i have to imagine all of that was pretty tough to swallow. s***, he had stat sheets banned from toronto's locker room just to try and escape some of the noise from the analytics crowd...
yet here he is, in sacramento of all places, playing some of the best ball of his career. i guess i just have a hard time imagining that a player who has endured so much criticism would bolt for the money, particularly when the prospects of a team like the lakers are no better than they are with the kings. playing alongside demarcus cousins has already re-energized gay's career, and i would think that's worth something to him. he excels when paired with quality big men, and in sacramento he's playing with the best in the game, but he's gonna skip town to go play with the creaky knees of kobe bryant, the ghost of steve nash (and possibly an aging pau gasol), along with a handful of nobodies and cast-offs? maybe kevin love signs in LA in 2015, and maybe he doesn't, but i certainly don't make a decision as a free agent based on that flimsy hope...
perhaps you're right, though; perhaps the lure of los angeles and the promise of big bucks will be enough to snatch rudy from the kings, or perhaps pete d'allesandro has a monetary figure in mind that rudy will find unacceptable, but i feel like there's a fairly comfortable middle ground there, and i don't think the kings' pitch (if they intend to make one in the event that rudy opts out) is going to be so terribly wanting that gay hops the fence to join the lakers. he strikes me as a player with some measure of individual pride in his level of play, and i'm not so convinced that he's going to pack up his image rehabilitation for the extremely bright lights of los angeles...
now, i don't know what other free agent destinations might be appealing to gay or might provide him with opportunities to play with greater talents. i haven't done the research on which teams have the necessary cap space. but i do know that dwight howard did considerable damage to the lakers' luster when he left in free agency. he effectively extinguished the myth that star talents will flock to LA above all else. the death of jerry buss, the insane legacy extension on kobe's contract, and the fact that the lakers are a lottery team this season feeds further into the notion that things aren't so stable in lakerland, no matter how brief their downturn may end up being in reality...
in this age of hyper media scrutiny, i honestly think the relative anonymity provided by a small market like sacramento must feel like a bit of a comfort to someone like gay, who's been trashed endlessly since memphis' new ownership group became hell bent on trading him no matter what they received in return. fans wanted to run him out of town in toronto. they'd be ready to run him out of town if he wasn't able to win in LA. but in sacramento, it's all smiles and positivity and nba 3.0 and new arena rah-rah'ing despite the fact that the kings' remain in the western conference's basement. it's often difficult to get the good players here, but once they're here, the fans are endlessly appreciative, and there's a new regime in town that's clearly player-oriented. we'll see what happens, but i'm not nearly as worried about the ominous threat of lakerland as i would have been in the past. i just hope it doesn't cost an arm and a leg if gay opts out and the kings re-sign him...
yet here he is, in sacramento of all places, playing some of the best ball of his career. i guess i just have a hard time imagining that a player who has endured so much criticism would bolt for the money, particularly when the prospects of a team like the lakers are no better than they are with the kings. playing alongside demarcus cousins has already re-energized gay's career, and i would think that's worth something to him. he excels when paired with quality big men, and in sacramento he's playing with the best in the game, but he's gonna skip town to go play with the creaky knees of kobe bryant, the ghost of steve nash (and possibly an aging pau gasol), along with a handful of nobodies and cast-offs? maybe kevin love signs in LA in 2015, and maybe he doesn't, but i certainly don't make a decision as a free agent based on that flimsy hope...
perhaps you're right, though; perhaps the lure of los angeles and the promise of big bucks will be enough to snatch rudy from the kings, or perhaps pete d'allesandro has a monetary figure in mind that rudy will find unacceptable, but i feel like there's a fairly comfortable middle ground there, and i don't think the kings' pitch (if they intend to make one in the event that rudy opts out) is going to be so terribly wanting that gay hops the fence to join the lakers. he strikes me as a player with some measure of individual pride in his level of play, and i'm not so convinced that he's going to pack up his image rehabilitation for the extremely bright lights of los angeles...
now, i don't know what other free agent destinations might be appealing to gay or might provide him with opportunities to play with greater talents. i haven't done the research on which teams have the necessary cap space. but i do know that dwight howard did considerable damage to the lakers' luster when he left in free agency. he effectively extinguished the myth that star talents will flock to LA above all else. the death of jerry buss, the insane legacy extension on kobe's contract, and the fact that the lakers are a lottery team this season feeds further into the notion that things aren't so stable in lakerland, no matter how brief their downturn may end up being in reality...
in this age of hyper media scrutiny, i honestly think the relative anonymity provided by a small market like sacramento must feel like a bit of a comfort to someone like gay, who's been trashed endlessly since memphis' new ownership group became hell bent on trading him no matter what they received in return. fans wanted to run him out of town in toronto. they'd be ready to run him out of town if he wasn't able to win in LA. but in sacramento, it's all smiles and positivity and nba 3.0 and new arena rah-rah'ing despite the fact that the kings' remain in the western conference's basement. it's often difficult to get the good players here, but once they're here, the fans are endlessly appreciative, and there's a new regime in town that's clearly player-oriented. we'll see what happens, but i'm not nearly as worried about the ominous threat of lakerland as i would have been in the past. i just hope it doesn't cost an arm and a leg if gay opts out and the kings re-sign him...
Rudy Gay stays.
Carl Landry goes for the right price.
Jason Thompson goes.
Jason Terry goes.
Derrick Williams goes for the right price.
DeMarcus Cousins stays.
Travis Outlaw goes for the right price.
Ben McLemore goes for the right price.
Aaron Gray can stay for the vet min.
Reggie Evans goes for the right price.
Isaiah Thomas goes.
Quincy Acy can stay for the vet min.
Ray McCallum stays.
Carl Landry goes for the right price.
Jason Thompson goes.
Jason Terry goes.
Derrick Williams goes for the right price.
DeMarcus Cousins stays.
Travis Outlaw goes for the right price.
Ben McLemore goes for the right price.
Aaron Gray can stay for the vet min.
Reggie Evans goes for the right price.
Isaiah Thomas goes.
Quincy Acy can stay for the vet min.
Ray McCallum stays.
you can't let rudy walk for nothing. it's hard enough to acquire talent and for another major one to go? oh yeah, wait, we can sign 2-3 more landry type deals to round out the roster. if we're gonna let rudy walk, we might as well go for another high lotto pick next season which we should have went for THIS YEAR.
letting rudy walk will mean we are forced to sign IT to a bigger deal. you think cuz is gonna want to see 2 of his team mates that can score leave?
letting rudy walk will mean we are forced to sign IT to a bigger deal. you think cuz is gonna want to see 2 of his team mates that can score leave?
None of those guys you mention go unless it brings us some value. Good luck Pete in your hunt for value.
Last year at this time I wanted Fredette and Thornton gone no matter what. Others wanted Salmons, Outlaw, Hayes and maybe some others gone no matter what. I don't see the fan feeling so negative this year. The exception may be IT where 50% want him gone and the other half really want him to stay. The climate now is let's get a couple of quality players. And I think the FO is right there with us.
Last year at this time I wanted Fredette and Thornton gone no matter what. Others wanted Salmons, Outlaw, Hayes and maybe some others gone no matter what. I don't see the fan feeling so negative this year. The exception may be IT where 50% want him gone and the other half really want him to stay. The climate now is let's get a couple of quality players. And I think the FO is right there with us.
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Well your guess is as good as any. But were trying to look inside Gay's mind and that's impossible. I don't know Rudy Gay any better than I know Ben McLemore. I would suspect that there are fans from other teams predicting that Cousins will ask for trade soon because of how the team played. But of course we know that's not close to the truth. Cousins is one of those unique players that doesn't want to ride the coattails of others. He wants to be the one that turns a franchise around. So who knows what lurks in Gay's mind. He might be more than willing to deal with another season of rebuilding as long as he's convinced that in the end, the Kings will be at minimum a playoff team, and at best, a contender.
I don't think Gay as reached the desperation period of his career. That usually happens when a good player turns 32 or 33 years old. If his team isn't contending for a title by that age, his patience has probably run its course. But, everyone is different and I have no idea what he'll do. He says he's comfortable here, and he wants to stay in one place for a while. So we have that going for us. Don't know why, but I have a good feeling about this. Let me put it this way. I have a better feeling about us retaining Gay than I do Thomas. I just have this gut feeling that Thomas will end up signing with the Magic. They can then move Oladipo back to SG where he belongs. I hope I'm wrong.....
I don't think Gay as reached the desperation period of his career. That usually happens when a good player turns 32 or 33 years old. If his team isn't contending for a title by that age, his patience has probably run its course. But, everyone is different and I have no idea what he'll do. He says he's comfortable here, and he wants to stay in one place for a while. So we have that going for us. Don't know why, but I have a good feeling about this. Let me put it this way. I have a better feeling about us retaining Gay than I do Thomas. I just have this gut feeling that Thomas will end up signing with the Magic. They can then move Oladipo back to SG where he belongs. I hope I'm wrong.....