When will it end?

#1
When will we see an end to the era where players who leave the Kings immediately prosper and experience success on their new team? See Bogdon as the latest example. Plays for the Kings for a few years, never so much as sniffs any form of relevance, leaves and immediately has a good year on a team that reaches the conference finals. Yeah, I'm salty. What of it?
 
#3
Who else is on that list? IT? Gerald Wallace? Bogdan has had a good season after a rough start but it remains to be seen how it ends for him.
 
#4
Who else is on that list? IT? Gerald Wallace? Bogdan has had a good season after a rough start but it remains to be seen how it ends for him.
Well hard to argue that they don't experience success given most other teams would have made the playoffs by now. Whether or not they're impactful guys on those teams is a different story.
 
#5
I assume Bogi will play in the Olympics? We'll see how he holds up if he refuses to take any offseasons. I think most of my ambivalence to him was the feeling that he prioritized country over club, and I'm not going to hold that against him, but in a salary cap league where he and Buddy seemed to get in each other's way, we had to make a choice and we did that, rightly or wrongly (though my guess is Vlade would have signed him to a deal larger than he got in ATL).
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#7
Can’t think of too many besides Bogi….

And he was always hurt when he played for us since he never took time off. He was finally forced to have an off-season of sorts due to covid.

I’d say I’ve observed more the opposite.

We have guys come here and put up decent numbers on our doodoo franchise, since just about every minute of every game for the past fifteen years has essentially been garbage time, then when said players move on to a new team they’re exposed as frauds fit only for riding pine.

Of course this is even more depressing…
 
#10
I think the kings are screwed until vivek decides to leave or is pushed out. Hell, the maloofs were better than vivek. At least i got to see "the greatest show on court".
The grass isn't always greener. But at least the grass is still in Sacramento and not Seattle. lol.

Yeah, the one thing about the Maloofs I miss is to their credit they had a knack for hiring top notch production teams. The Kings games weren't this cookie cutter Fox sports/NBC/Comcast garbage of now.
 
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#11
When will we see an end to the era where players who leave the Kings immediately prosper and experience success on their new team? See Bogdon as the latest example. Plays for the Kings for a few years, never so much as sniffs any form of relevance, leaves and immediately has a good year on a team that reaches the conference finals. Yeah, I'm salty. What of it?
Eh, I think you’re giving Bogie too much credit here.

Yes, his regular season numbers were up from his time in SAC, but he hasn’t played particularly well in the postseason. Of the 12 games ATL has played, he’s shot poorly in at least 6-7 of them. And was not good at all the last 3 games against Philly.

I’ve contended previously that ATL has benefitted greatly from favorable matchups (and playing in the East) — but even if one doesn’t subscribe to that, ATL‘s postseason run hasn’t had a lot to do with Bogie. They’ve won in spite of him.

IIRC he wasn’t available during the final stretch of GM7 which, to me, isn’t surprising at all.
 
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#12
Isaiah Thomas would be another one as he got minor MVP consideration after his best season before injuries derailed his career.

DeMarcus had one great year alongside AD but you can't really say it was significantly better than what he did in his best seasons as a King. And while he may not have had the injury issues had the Kings not traded him, if he did Sacramento would likely still be paying him supermax money right now.

Thomas Robinson, Jimmer, Stauskas, and Papagiannis were all out of the NBA after a few seasons. McLemore, WCS, Justin Jackson, Harry Giles, and Skal Labissiere are all deep bench players and/or barely hanging on to an NBA career.

And those are just the first round picks.

IT clearly played better just after leaving the Kings. Bogdan is debatable. He looks the same to me, just playing on a better team that uses him well.

But to me the most glaring thing is how awful the Kings have been at drafting overall. It's absolutely critical for such a small market team to build through the draft (OKC, San Antonio, etc) and the Kings have just botched it most years. The Warriors picked after them in the years that they got Steph and Klay. The Kings missed out on Kawhi, Lillard, Giannis, Booker, Luka, and that's again only counting first rounders and not 2nd round outliers like Jokic or Draymond.

The problem isn't Kings players leaving and then improving. It's not getting good enough players to begin with.
 
#13
But to me the most glaring thing is how awful the Kings have been at drafting overall. It's absolutely critical for such a small market team to build through the draft (OKC, San Antonio, etc) and the Kings have just botched it most years. The Warriors picked after them in the years that they got Steph and Klay. The Kings missed out on Kawhi, Lillard, Giannis, Booker, Luka, and that's again only counting first rounders and not 2nd round outliers like Jokic or Draymond.

The problem isn't Kings players leaving and then improving. It's not getting good enough players to begin with.
I generally agree with you, but the Kings aren't the only teams to have missed out on Kawhi, Lillard, Giannis, and Booker. Yeah, Luka is an outlier because really only the Kings and Suns passed on him, although I'm not sure how much the Suns regret that at this point if at all, but all those other names were passed on by at least a handful of other teams as well. None of them were even top 5 picks.

And there's now a new GM with one draft under his belt that I think we could all say was pretty successful. At this point, there's no reason to think Monte is a bad drafter, so hopefully he will make a good choice at 9 because there's definitely going to he someone with great potential available there.
 
#14
Lillard went one pick after the Kings took Robinson.

Klay went one pick after the Kings took Jimmer and Kawhi went five picks later.

Giannis is definitely an outlier. He went 8 picks after the Kings took McLemore and nobody could have predicted he'd develop as much as he did. Gobert also went 27th so that's cherry picking a bit too. But CJ McCollum (who I wanted for his fit with Tyreke and Cousins) went three picks later.

Booker went six picks after the Kings took WCS (who I was in favor of drafting for full disclosure) but Myles Turner, Oubre, Rozier etc all would have been better picks.

It's not fair to suggest that the Kings should have drafted all of these guys (and of course if they hit on more picks they wouldn't be in the lottery each year) but the fact that most of their lottery picks of the last 10-12 years are out of the NBA or barely hanging on is why the Kings continue to be terrible.

If they'd even hit on one or two of those guys it changes the trajectory of a franchise. Hopefully Monte continues to draft well because that's the only realistic way the Kings improve and they've failed miserably most years.

You don't have to hit a home run every time but you need to occasionally and the rest of the time you have to get a solid piece to add to your foundation. Curry and Thompson weren't top 5 picks either. And neither was Harrison Barnes who was a solid piece during their first title run. Draymond definitely wasn't.

But fair or not, a Kings GM will only succeed if he either lucks into a top pick in a draft with a can't miss talent, drafts guys who far exceed their draft slot and/or gambles in a trade for a potential superstar with health or attitude baggage or who have a major weakness like Webber or (for recent examples) possibly Porzingis or Simmons.

That's it. So while it may be understandable for any given year that the Kings are one of 8-15 teams that missed out on a star outside of the top five picks, the fact that they have done so for the vast majority of the last dozen years or so isn't excusable.
 
#15
I always wonder if it’s a chicken or egg scenario. Did we miss out on drafting these stars or did they become stars because the went to better managed teams that developed them. Would klay or Lillard get get confidence shattered like jimmer, Ben or stauskas who were all great shooters in college? Did those players falter on other teams cuz they were busts or did we not develop or stop bad habits while they were rookies?
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#16
I always wonder if it’s a chicken or egg scenario. Did we miss out on drafting these stars or did they become stars because the went to better managed teams that developed them. Would klay or Lillard get get confidence shattered like jimmer, Ben or stauskas who were all great shooters in college? Did those players falter on other teams cuz they were busts or did we not develop or stop bad habits while they were rookies?
I have confidence that Klay or Dame would at least be able to dribble the ball across half court without bouncing the ball off their feet or getting stripped all the time.
 
#18
I always wonder if it’s a chicken or egg scenario. Did we miss out on drafting these stars or did they become stars because the went to better managed teams that developed them. Would klay or Lillard get get confidence shattered like jimmer, Ben or stauskas who were all great shooters in college? Did those players falter on other teams cuz they were busts or did we not develop or stop bad habits while they were rookies?
There is 100% some chicken and egg in all NBA draft picks but Bagley isn't getting injured because he's in Sacramento. I think there is a case to be made that he's soft and that superstars play through some of the injuries he has had (broken fingers, certainly). I'm not against him taking time off to heal them but if he's going to turn around and blame everyone but himself he can kick rocks.

T-Rob, Jimmer, Ben and Stauskas were all fairly bad picks. I think in the case of T-Rob and Ben, they "fell" unexpectedly to us and we took them - perhaps the teams that passed on them did their homework, or perhaps the teams drafted on need. I remember being excited about both because they were projected to go earlier and it appeared we got a steal. (of course Kawhi and our own Hali disprove this is always true). Jimmer, Stauskas and Bagley I think were all cases of our front offices having tunnel vision for varying reasons. The Maloofs thought they could draft a guy with a built in fan base to add to their dying empire. Vivek seemed to have some major hardon for Stauskas believing he was what Jimmer wasn't? And well we all know that Vlade and Williams put Bagley as #1 with a bullet on their board and didn't even bother to workout anyone else. Jeeeesus, I cry.
 
#19
Petrie was the last Kings GM who drafted players who made a difference. J Will, Peja, Hedo all were good. The jury is still out on MM, but hope springs eternal.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#20
Who else is on that list? IT? Gerald Wallace? Bogdan has had a good season after a rough start but it remains to be seen how it ends for him.
As much as I hated to see Gerald go, the Kings didn't have a lot of choice. I believe they could only protect eight players in the expansion draft and they protected the core of the team. One has to remember that Wallace hadn't broken out yet at that time, so they weren't about to let another team grab Bobby Jackson, or Pollard etc. One thought was to expose Webber because his contract was so big that no one would touch it. Would have been a huge risk though.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#21
Can’t think of too many besides Bogi….

And he was always hurt when he played for us since he never took time off. He was finally forced to have an off-season of sorts due to covid.

I’d say I’ve observed more the opposite.

We have guys come here and put up decent numbers on our doodoo franchise, since just about every minute of every game for the past fifteen years has essentially been garbage time, then when said players move on to a new team they’re exposed as frauds fit only for riding pine.

Of course this is even more depressing…
One that I regretted at that the time, was Seth Curry who we held the rights to since he was a restricted free agent. But we simply let him walk.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#22
One that I regretted at that the time, was Seth Curry who we held the rights to since he was a restricted free agent. But we simply let him walk.
If I recall correctly, he asked us not to tender a QO because he didn't think there was PT available and he wanted to go somewhere he could play. We obliged him.

You really do want to do right by players, but I don't know if there's a lot of advantage to doing so.
 
#23
Eh, I think you’re giving Bogie too much credit here.

Yes, his regular season numbers were up from his time in SAC, but he hasn’t played particularly well in the postseason. Of the 12 games ATL has played, he’s shot poorly in at least 6-7 of them. And was not good at all the last 3 games against Philly.

I’ve contended previously that ATL has benefitted greatly from favorable matchups (and playing in the East) — but even if one doesn’t subscribe to that, ATL‘s postseason run hasn’t had a lot to do with Bogie. They’ve won in spite of him.

IIRC he wasn’t available during the final stretch of GM7 which, to me, isn’t surprising at all.
I consider averages of 47/44/91 for 16 ppg to be a pretty good year. All of those shooting averages are up from when he played with us. Had a good year and is playing in the ECF. It's like players come to the Kings expecting to toil at or near the bottom of the league. Cousins got traded and continued to be a monster on a playoff team; went to the playoffs with every subsequent team he played on after playing for us. IT had an MVP calibre season with the Celtics, who also went to the playoffs. We fired Mike Malone who now coaches a team that is consistently towards the top of the Western conference. Rudy Gay played well for a playoff team as soon as he left. Darren Collison played well for the Pacers, who made the playoffs, right after he left Sacramento. Ben Maclemore never played well, but has now played on multiple playoff teams...AFTER leaving Sacramento. And on and on and on...
 
#24
As much as I hated to see Gerald go, the Kings didn't have a lot of choice. I believe they could only protect eight players in the expansion draft and they protected the core of the team. One has to remember that Wallace hadn't broken out yet at that time, so they weren't about to let another team grab Bobby Jackson, or Pollard etc. One thought was to expose Webber because his contract was so big that no one would touch it. Would have been a huge risk though.
I think there was a thing where you not only could max protect a number of players, but you had to leave at least X players unprotected, and we didn't have enough players under contract to meet the minimum. There was a lot of anger that we didn't pick up an option or something (Anthony Peeler?) that would have allowed us to expose a player and keep Wallace.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#25
I think there was a thing where you not only could max protect a number of players, but you had to leave at least X players unprotected, and we didn't have enough players under contract to meet the minimum. There was a lot of anger that we didn't pick up an option or something (Anthony Peeler?) that would have allowed us to expose a player and keep Wallace.
It was, and I’ll never forgive Peeler for that. Wallace was my guy back in the day even before he ascended.

I remember yelling to unprotect Doug Christie over Wallace.
 
#26
It was, and I’ll never forgive Peeler for that. Wallace was my guy back in the day even before he ascended.

I remember yelling to unprotect Doug Christie over Wallace.
Was it Peeler or Petrie's fault?
It really hurt to bleed young talent as the Kings window slammed shut.
 
#27
Was it Peeler or Petrie's fault?
It really hurt to bleed young talent as the Kings window slammed shut.
Yeah, I always thought that Petrie should have given Peeler a two-year deal, with an eye on the expansion draft. But who knows, maybe Peeler preferred the flexibility of a one-year deal to bet on himself.

If you’re going to be mad at Peeler, it should be for taking KG’s bait and getting suspended for the last game of that playoff series in 04. (But, really, you could be mad at lots of folks—the league for not also suspending KG, Peja for disappearing game 7, etc). Probably best to move on ;)
 
#29
I consider averages of 47/44/91 for 16 ppg to be a pretty good year. All of those shooting averages are up from when he played with us. Had a good year and is playing in the ECF.
Those are good numbers. But so what?

Have you been watching the playoffs? Bogie has little to nothing to do with ATL’s success. It can easily be argued they are carrying his dead weight. He’s not been good.

And again I’ll say — they are in the East. Transplant that same team to the West and Bogie is in the same situation he was in SAC.

As for Boogie — he really only saw more team success once he was a role player on an established top tier team. When he was in New Orleans he had the benefit of playing with another franchise level player. He would have seen the same or better success playing in SAC had AD joined him here.
 
#30
I know that Bogi had a nice stretch in the regular season after his injury timeout but in the playoff games I have watched he is either invisible or the worst guy on the floor.