What's the plan?

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
(First, a disclaimer. I stole the concept for this thread from Peck at PacersDigest... He has a QOD (question of the day) and this one seemed to fit the Kings as well as the Pacers, so I stole it. Thanks, Peck!)

What is the plan?

Let me clarify. I'm not talking about what each of US thinks the plan should be because that's already being done to death. My question is simple:

What do you honestly think the Maloofs/Petrie have in mind for this franchise? And, in addition, how long do you think they thought it would/will take for us to get there.

Things to consider, if you choose:

They have a coach who by their own admission was brought in to be more outgoing and more defensive minded but all we've seen so far is a DUI arrest and a total abandonment of the defensive emphasis.

They went out and got Mo Taylor and John Salmons. While one has been a pleasant surprise, the other - despite a glowing article in the Bee - has been mentioned most for his 5-game suspension for a repeat substance abuse violation.

They have young players with some talent and yet they're being put into situations that are clearly outside their capabilities at the present time.

IMO, the biggest problem with this team right now is lack of identity. The players don't know who they are or what's expected of them. They don't even know, for the most part, whether they'll be playing their usual positions or be asked to fill in at any of the 5 possibilities.

We've seen comments about defensive intensity, we've seen comments about giving time to rooks based on good performance in practice and we've seen players benched for the egregious sin of accumulating two fouls. It goes on and on...

And please, let's leave out the "they're tanking so they can move the team" stuff.

So, pretend you have been inside some of those Petrie/Maloof discussions, if you can. What do they have in mind? Where are the Kings headed?
 
I just want to know wt people think of this thing about hte maloofs:

After 2003 when they started to be recongnized about Vegas and commercials and all teh entertainment issues, maybe the Maloofs are just trying to get money from Kings and not trying to make them the best. They dont care about the Kings as long as they get money. Lately they havent really been supporting this team comign to many games but do you guys think this might be SLIGHTLY true that they just wanna make money off Kings and not trying to make them the best?

just an idea.......
 
Well I don't think I'll take the challenge, because I'm not the Maloofs or Geoff Petrie. I do have a couple comments though.

The personal attack on Musselman about his DUI was a low blow and completely uncalled. It has no relation to his coaching ability, or what's goin on with the team.

As far as abandoning the defensive emphasis. He's working with what he has, which isn't much. Artest can't guard everyone.
 
I just want to know wt people think of this thing about hte maloofs:

After 2003 when they started to be recongnized about Vegas and commercials and all teh entertainment issues, maybe the Maloofs are just trying to get money from Kings and not trying to make them the best. They dont care about the Kings as long as they get money. Lately they havent really been supporting this team comign to many games but do you guys think this might be SLIGHTLY true that they just wanna make money off Kings and not trying to make them the best?

just an idea.......


I don't believe that. They were basketball fans first, that's why they bought a franchise.
 
Plan? I think Geoff's plan is to wait for the right deal to come up to him, like it or not. Rather than parade around the NBA looking for offers.
 
I think the Kings know they have a need for inside players. They tried all the rookies and Woods in camp and none panned out. One however showed promise down the road so they decided to pick him back up. Now here is where some my differ from me. I think they are showcasing Corlis Williamson (I know thats a stretch) so he would look like a good addition to a team as well as an expiring to add with one of the 3 or 2 or the 3 main money makers on the team Ron, Mike, or Brad. I feel a move involving at least 1 of them and Corlis is going to be made for a power player. Now others my go as well as salary filler or what not such as Price, Hart, Garcia, Maybe even newly signed Williams if the 2 10 day contracts lead to a legit contract. I could be wrong.

Now they know they are and should be rebuilding, but they have egos as well so if it looks like it will be 2 years before some of the youngsters are ready to takeover or 2 years of getting new youngsters. How well could they do in those 2 years if they had a power player of say Kevin Garnett. Basically they want their cake and eat it too. The Maloofs are spoiled have been their whole life so who is to tell them they can't Us?????
 
I just want to know wt people think of this thing about hte maloofs:

After 2003 when they started to be recongnized about Vegas and commercials and all teh entertainment issues, maybe the Maloofs are just trying to get money from Kings and not trying to make them the best. They dont care about the Kings as long as they get money. Lately they havent really been supporting this team comign to many games but do you guys think this might be SLIGHTLY true that they just wanna make money off Kings and not trying to make them the best?

just an idea.......

Sorry my frieng but, you are way off. 2003 may have been when you noticed commercials and what not of the Maloofs and Vegas but, the Maloof name goes way farther back and has its hand in alot more than just Vegas. Believe me making money is not something they have to work at anymore.
 
The plan is the Maloofs are going to pace around in a circle for weeks on end and tell Geoff that they are growing impatient. Geoff is going to tell them to be patient. And then bam!
 
I would guess that management felt that they had a roster that had done playoff level work last year, still mostly intact. They added some young talented guys and a coach who knocked their socks off during interviews, and probably figured, not unreasonably, that they would run hard this year, develop the young guys in the process and go as deep in the playoffs as their talent and luck would take them, and continue to improve year over year. I believe most of us expected the same thing. The shortfall has been surprising, but I continue to feel that the team is not nearly as poor as the results we continue to see. We should have a significantly better record than we have, despite the injuries and well chronicled inadequacies. I don't expect the management to panic and I expect to see sensible adjustments in short order. It's always best to stay in the middle of the Panic/Euphoria Continuum and I know GP is about as cool as you can get in this regard. Situations are rarely as great or as gloomy as they seem at a given moment.
 
Nice topic, I'll try to add to the above comments.

I think coming into this season they thought with the present roster there was the possibility of winning 50 games and being a top-10 team in the league (still second tier, behind Dallas, San Antonio, etc.)

However, now that it's apparent that we're certainly not a second tier team I think they're in waiting mode. Petrie has always preached patience over overreacting and I don't see him changing his methods now.

I'm guessing they're waiting this out a bit to see if this team can come together and produce - let's face it, our "stars" haven't produced well this season and I think they want to see if they can and/or will improve and get together as the season progresses much as it went last season.

It's apparent that we have some major weaknesses in the front court - KT has been pathetic, SAR, mediocre, and Miller, non-existent.

But honestly, what options do they have at this point? Who in their right mind would take KT's contract? Or Miller's? We have to accept the fact that there is no way we're moving either of these guys until the last year of their contracts - noone in the league is that stupid.

With the way the team is performing now we're just in mediocre land - we'll beat some of the good teams ocassionally (Utah) beat most of the garbage and mediocre teams at home (with ocassional exceptions) and lose consistently against good teams whether on the road or at home.

It's a frustrating situation to be in to say the least but it's one that you have to deal with as a fan. I imagine that for Petrie and the Maloofs it's even more difficult as the on-court product is just subpar compared to the past 8 years. They'll certainly have to make some tough business decisions as time passes (ticket prices are one of them) but I just can't see them making any decisive moves that will dramatically improve the team in the near future.
 
we're never going to win anything with this core, EVER. we have to rebuild. if petrie doesn't know that then he should be gone.
 
I wonder if the Maloofs would be up for biting the bullet in a big way, and buying out an overly long contract or two.
 
I think Geoff was and is just trying to keep the teams head afloat for this season, and try to make the 8th spot in the playoffs.

Then, Geoff will go to work. First, we have aprx. 13 mill in salaries coming off the books. Plus, if Mike opts out, very likely, there is another 13 million aprx. to spend keeping us under the luxury tax, so he can start his rebuilding. The draft appears loaded with Big Men, so combined with the free agency money, Geoff can work his magic.

Hence, I don't see him making any trades, especially with the guys whose money comes off the cap, and will trade, if he can get more expiring contracts back.
 
I think Geoff was and is just trying to keep the teams head afloat for this season, and try to make the 8th spot in the playoffs.

Then, Geoff will go to work. First, we have aprx. 13 mill in salaries coming off the books. Plus, if Mike opts out, very likely, there is another 13 million aprx. to spend keeping us under the luxury tax, so he can start his rebuilding. The draft appears loaded with Big Men, so combined with the free agency money, Geoff can work his magic.

Hence, I don't see him making any trades, especially with the guys whose money comes off the cap, and will trade, if he can get more expiring contracts back.

omg, that would suck. just more patchwork, will get us nowhere.
 
for me...

the maloofs come off as very disingenuous. and i see them as businessmen first and foremost. and potentially ruthless ones at that.

mark cuban is someone that strikes me as a basketball fan first.

the maloofs maintain an image of being fans. in the name of business; of their investment.

certainly they want to win. winning = money. but it seems spending to win may not be up their alley anymore.

in regards to selling, i could see it go either way.
 
I also thought the Maloofs & GP believed they had a team as good as (or close to) last year, which was maybe one player away from getting into the 2nd round (and, possibly, beyond). They probably figured if they lost Bibby after this year, they could use his slot to replace him with some other free agent. And I have to believe they've been trying to improve us at the PF spot via a trade that just hasn't happened (yet).

I don't think they've completely embraced the idea of rebuilding, instead thinking that they can continue to be a winning and profitable club while - with a few breaks - we gradually improve and get back to the level we were at before (with the cowbells).

With the hiring of Muss, there's no secret. Adelman was Petrie's guy and, after several years of winning but not winning big, they wanted someone they could believe would take them to the promised land.

Now... with things obviously not working out as planned, I'm guessing that the Maloofs are getting impatient, while GP is advising them to be patient. I'm guessing that Artest asked to be traded a while back, which is why GP was (and maybe still is) talking to other teams about him. And I'm guessing that Bibby is being casually shopped - in case someone is ready to offer us something special for him. I don't think anyone on the roster is untouchable, including Martin.
 
I too shall start with a disclaimer (two in fact)
  1. This is a longish post, so thanks in advance to all who take the trouble to read it.
  2. I am huge Petrie fan, so shall spend a good part defending his actions (or their lack of at times). Hopefully, shall be able to remain objective.
For all of us who miss the beautiful free flowing Kings offense, the precise ball movement, the backdoor cuts, and of course, consistent victories, current times are tough. The thing that bothers us more though is that we have started doubting Geoff's ability to take us back to that elite level. We are ready to suck for a season, if that speeds up the rebuilding process. Finally, the thing that bothers us most is that we seem to be consistently investing in tweeners and multi position role players, which seem to ensure mediocrity. Question obviously arises, if Geoff has a concrete plan, and what identity he wants to give to this team.

To begin with, let us acknowledge, that the current state is a direct result of mortgaging our future in an effort to win a championship during the golden years. We kept trading away our draft picks and young guys. In the process, we kept getting old and the veterans kept clogging the cap. Worst, since we were not a team constructed around one or two superstars, but several very good players, we didn't suck too badly, but deteriorated slowly as we lost talent to age, injuries and free agency (think the Pistons might mirror this over the next few years, unless Dumars comes up with some good moves). Could Geoff have done a better job? Sure, one can always do better. However, looking back, I think most of his moves, or non moves were good for the franchise.

Trades: Several big ones in the last few seasons.

Webber: Most controversial. I still believe this was a good trade for the Kings. The arguments on both sides have been repeated so often, that it is pointless to make them again.

Peja: Given Peja's injury, coupled with the fact that we might have lost him for nothing, or might have overpaid him, looks good (plus Ron's play and behavior last season). However, if Ron blows up, and Peja comes back from injury fine next season, this might look bad in the long run. Overall, good.

Doug: Iffy on this. With us letting Cat walk, we effectively lost Doug for nothing. That might still have happened next season, as part of "Alan Houston rule" (were the Kings in the LT territory that season?), but I think we might have beaten Seatle with Doug instead of Cat in the lineup in the playoffs.

Bobby (and Tag): The way Bonzi played against SA, and given Bobby's injury history, seems great. Losing him for nothing hurt though.

Skinner: Salary dump.

Darius: Steal for two second rounders.

Free agency:

Over the last two years, our main additions have been Reef and Salmons at MLE (Mo is fairly inconsequential). I think at their price, both are good (I know many people believe Salmons is overpaid, but his play so far, has been fairly good).

Losing talent to free agency:

I think this is one area that Petrie has not done well in. We let lot of talent walk in recent years.

GW: Lost him to Bobcats. Didn't read these boards at that time, so not sure what other people felt. I kept thinking that we should have exposed Doug. Definitely unfair to Doug, an established veteran who played his heart out every night, plus a central part of the team, with which we might have hoped for a final shot at the title. Given that we traded him later in the year for Cat, feels bad to lose GW for nothing.

Vlade: Probably the one that affected the team the most, in that we lost the leader. In terms of his post Kings production, Lakers offer was obviously outrageous, and Geoff was wise not to match it. Still miss him though, and feel the team would have better with him around.

Cat: Effectively Doug. Clippers offer way over the top. Good that we had Bonzi last year, and Martin this year.

Evans: This one hurts. However, as I understand, once we signed Reef, we couldn't keep him, even though we wanted to. So, won't blame Geoff for it.

Darius: Nice gesture by Petrie to allow him to become a FA, but again, losing him for nothing hurts.

Bonzi: Not Geoff's fault, and given his current injury woes, we probably dodged a bullet.

In most of the above cases, concern is not that we didn't resign the guys, but that we couldn't pull off a S&T. Not sure if Geoff tried but couldn't pull it off (recall hearing about S&T for Cat for Nene, and again with Bonzi last year). That's too much talent to lose though without compensation. Envy Suns for this, who got a lot out of Atlanta for JJ (and if they land a stud with Atlanta's high draft pick this year, it may go down as one of the worst trades, despite JJ playing so well).

Draft:

Over the last 3 years, we have picked Martin, Cisco, Price, Douby and (hopefully long term), Justin. Too early to tell about Douby and Justin, but Martin is clearly the steal of his draft. Hope Cisco grows up, and lives up to at least some of the potential he sometimes displays.

Problems:

The front court is obviously the main concern. We have decent players (including hopefully a blossoming all star) and depth at the 2-3 positions, and a very good PG. 4 and 5 of course, are a huge concern, particularly on the defensive end. Despite this, Geoff has been adding talent at 2-3 positions. Our first round pick for this year plays 1-2 (though Bibby's possible free agency at the end of this season might have prompted this decision), and our chief free agent signee plays 2-3 (though Muss has used him at 4 too :eek:).

While the explaination that big guys drafted late rarely pan out is quite reasonable, Petrie needs to draft for position, or trade for big guys, even if it might mean losing on the talent to some extent. Case in point, the Lakers. They traded away Butler for Kwame. Butler has played exceedingly well, and the deal looks like a slam dunk for the Wizards. However, with Kobe and Lamar playing the same positions, Butler was slightly expendable, and the Lakers decided to take a chance on Kwame. Petrie might be forced to do something similar.

Finally, I think Petrie is very risk averse. To some extent, this is good, in the sense that risks that backfire might really set you back. However, it prevents a quantum jump too. For the last few years, we have been drafting guys who have played good years of college ball (they might not have gone to big programs, but stayed in college for several years). This minimizes risk, instead of gambling on say a high schooler, or freshman, but long term returns might be lower.

I don't know what is the mandate Petrie has from the Maloofs. Do they want to try for a playoff spot, or are they ok with trading away some of the core guys in order to get a higher pick. If the latter, Petrie should (most certainly shall) seriously explore trading away Artest and Reef (I don't think anyone would want Kenny's long contract). Regarding Brad, much as I wish that he could guard someone down low, and be at least a little athletic, he is one of the better big men. If we can get a good big next year, Brad can play next to him, and also act as his mentor. I would keep Bibby. Even if he does not opt out, he is still a fairly young and good floor leader, who shall have only two years left on his contract. If we trade him away, we might get stuck with a subpar PG, and worse, even overpay for him over a long term.
 
we're never going to win anything with this core, EVER. we have to rebuild. if petrie doesn't know that then he should be gone.

Does it ever occur to some of you that there is a big difference in knowing it and actually being able to make trades that are beneficial?

This isn't NBA Live, you know. The trade deadline is still over a month away. Heck, they may just ride it out until TDOS and start working then on trades when some salary comes off the books.

It is impossible to know with any certainty what GP is up to because he never says anything, even when he does hold a press conference.... ;)
 
Some of my kings fan co-workers (season ticket holders) think the Maloofs are looking to sell. ???


Yeah, that'll happen. NOT!!!!

I would be completely shocked. They worked hard to get an NBA franchise and I doubt they would give up one that they have worked so hard on. Look at the arena issue the last 8 years. If that didn't cause them to already sell the team I don't know what it would take.
 
Nice topic, I'll try to add to the above comments.

I think coming into this season they thought with the present roster there was the possibility of winning 50 games and being a top-10 team in the league (still second tier, behind Dallas, San Antonio, etc.)

However, now that it's apparent that we're certainly not a second tier team I think they're in waiting mode. Petrie has always preached patience over overreacting and I don't see him changing his methods now.

I'm guessing they're waiting this out a bit to see if this team can come together and produce - let's face it, our "stars" haven't produced well this season and I think they want to see if they can and/or will improve and get together as the season progresses much as it went last season.

It's apparent that we have some major weaknesses in the front court - KT has been pathetic, SAR, mediocre, and Miller, non-existent.

But honestly, what options do they have at this point? Who in their right mind would take KT's contract? Or Miller's? We have to accept the fact that there is no way we're moving either of these guys until the last year of their contracts - noone in the league is that stupid.

With the way the team is performing now we're just in mediocre land - we'll beat some of the good teams ocassionally (Utah) beat most of the garbage and mediocre teams at home (with ocassional exceptions) and lose consistently against good teams whether on the road or at home.

It's a frustrating situation to be in to say the least but it's one that you have to deal with as a fan. I imagine that for Petrie and the Maloofs it's even more difficult as the on-court product is just subpar compared to the past 8 years. They'll certainly have to make some tough business decisions as time passes (ticket prices are one of them) but I just can't see them making any decisive moves that will dramatically improve the team in the near future.

Thanks for taking the time to write this out. It's pretty much the kind of response I was hoping for...

kingsfan101 said:
...Finally, I think Petrie is very risk averse. To some extent, this is good, in the sense that risks that backfire might really set you back. However, it prevents a quantum jump too. For the last few years, we have been drafting guys who have played good years of college ball (they might not have gone to big programs, but stayed in college for several years). This minimizes risk, instead of gambling on say a high schooler, or freshman, but long term returns might be lower...

I quoted just part of your post so I'd be able to compliment you, too, on taking some time to really thing about this.

Thanks to those who are taking this seriously so far... It's the kind of thing the board used to do in depth.

Side note to DocHolliday - I wasn't the one who got the DUI. He can't hide it, Doc, and it may well have had a definite effect on Musselman, how he relates to the players, etc.
 
Does it ever occur to some of you that there is a big difference in knowing it and actually being able to make trades that are beneficial?

This isn't NBA Live, you know. The trade deadline is still over a month away. Heck, they may just ride it out until TDOS and start working then on trades when some salary comes off the books.

It is impossible to know with any certainty what GP is up to because he never says anything, even when he does hold a press conference.... ;)

i didn't say i knew, i never said that. and what's the poing of waiting to the offseason? this draft is very key, we might as well not even trade them if we're going to wait till then because part of the point of trading them is so that we start losing more and get higher up in the draft.
 
This is a longish post, so thanks in advance to all who take the trouble to read it.

Just wanted to let you know that I read it all!
And I agree with just about every point you make. :D

Except that I'm beginning to see Bibby as someone who might be more effective on a high level team coming off the bench (like a Vinny Johnson, or a Nick Van Excel in his second NBA life). Not that Bibby can't be a good floor general, but he's at his best as a shooter, and he's at his worst as a defender. As a distributor he's not bad, but not great. I think the exceptional passing skills of Christie, C-Webb and Vlade overshadowed the fact that Bibby is/was not a particularly good passer. That weakness is simply more evident when he's surrounded by guys who aren't good passers.
 
The last move that this franchise made that was part of any sort of coherent plan was trading for Brad Miller back in the summer of '03 as the heir apparent to Vlade. Its been bumbling and searching ever since.

The Maloofs are simple and none too bright beasts. They got horribly spoiled by the good years which basically happened from the moment they hit town. And have been horribly deluded into believing ever since that every one of their teams is an instant contender no matter how badly constructed like its some sort of birthright. They bumble around looking for quick fixes and scapegoats as to why they are not winning a title every year, and perhaps worse yet have been feeding that same deluded venom into the fanbase so that now there has been created all kinds of ugliness and discontent amongst both owners and fans sharing the common delusion that they would've/could've/should've been winning it every year except for (fill in annual scapegoat here).

Of course the other half of the "braintrust", and I thought the quotes were appropriate here, is Geoff, who did nothing this summer, ON PURPOSE. Told us he'd do nothing in fact. People did not believe him because that was patently stupid. Then went ahead and did it.

The fact that we have reached this point tells you much of what you need to know about Petrie's feel for this squad. He was deluded enough to think he'd built a contender last year out of camp, was miserably wrong, and then had to be basically overidden by his none too bright owners to force him to take any action at all -- the Artest deal. Then promptly returned to doing nothing. "Evaluating". Gave away our only shotblocker in the process too, although at least intiailly it looked like we might have gotten a marginal kid out of it (until he walked this summer). Used the Muss hiring -- not his idea, but his attempt to save the situation after the Maloofs were going to hire the family friend -- as an excuse for more hands sitting. More "evaluation". So did nothing over the summer despite deficiencies that were 100% obvious and clear to many a semi-knowledgible fan. And so here we are. And note, the "did nothing" isn't only not fixing our current holes, its also not preparing for the future the other way. Geoff hasn't been running around the league picking up enders or picks any more than he has been trading for players to plug our holes. He's been doing nothing. What minor cap room we have coming (actually pretty much none at this point unless we are "lucky" enough to lose our starting PG) is entirely because of moves made years ago. And I've mentioned before that we are one late late pick not blossoming (Kevin) away from this franchise being headed straight for the cellar. You don't sit around and plan on drafting 20ppg scorers in the 20s as your plan. Well, unless you are a fool. That just fell in our lap, as have many of our moves in recent years.


And so now I am just waiting and watching with some bemusement. Perhaps my best hope now is that there is actually kind of a cold war going on in the Kings front office, with Geoff trying to force the Maloofs into understanding the need for a rebuild, and trying to wait for Muss to get a clear idea of what he wants to do. Its a reach, but possible, and the best hope. And I guess we'll see in the next month or so as that trading deadline approaches. In a couple of months they are going to start asking about season ticket renewals, and at this point for the first time this century they have lost mine. Buying those tickets was always more an act of support for the team/management than anything else given the relatively low percentage of games my family actually attends (and almost none that I do). And at this point they no longer have that support. Had I the money I would buy the team and clean out a very stale house. Since I do not, I will merely wait here for events to play out and decide then whether this very shaky house deserves anymore of my money. Perhaps if the product on the floor is not enough to shake the front office out of its dreamworld, the permanently empty seats and shrinking ticket holder list will do so.
 
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The last move that this franchise made that was part of any sort of coherent plan was trading for Brad Miller back in the summer of '03 as the heir apparent to Vlade. Its been bumbling and searching ever since.

The Maloofs are simple and none too bright beasts. They got horribly spoiled by the good years which basically happened from the moment they hit town. And have been horribly deluded ever since that wevery one fo their teams is an instant contender no matter how badly constructed like its some sort of birthright. They bumble around looking for quick fixes and scapegoats as to why they are not winning a title every year, and perhaps worse yet have been feeding that same deluded venom into the fanbase so that now there has been created all kinds of ugliness and discontent amongst both owners and fans sharing the common delusion that they would've/could've/should've been winning it every year except for (fill in annual scapegoat here).

Of course the other half of the "braintrust", and I thought the quotes were appropriate here, is Geoff, who did nothing this summer, ON PURPOSE. Told us he'd do nothing in fact. People did not believe him because that was patently stupid. Then went ahead and did it.

The fact that we have reached this point tells you much of what you need to know about Petrie's feel for this squad. He was deluded enough to think he'd built a contender last year out of camp, was miserably wrong, and then had to be basically overidden by his none too bright owners to force him to take any action at all -- the Artest deal. Then promptly returned to doing nothing. "Evaluating". Gave away our only shotblocker in the process too, although at least intiailly it looked like we might have gotten a marginal kid out of it (until he walked this summer). Used the Muss hiring -- not his idea, but his attempt to save the situation after the Maloofs were going to hire the family friend -- as an excuse for more hands sitting. More "evaluation". So did nothing over the summer despite deficiencies that were 100% obvious and clear to many a semi-knowledgible fan. And so here we are. And note, the "did nothing" isn't only not fixing our current holes, its also not preparing for the future the other way. Geoff hasn't been running around the league picking up enders or picks any more than he has been trading for players to plug our holes. He's been doing nothing. What minor cap room we have coming (actually pretty much none at this point unless we are "lucky" enough to lose our starting PG) is entirely because of moves made years ago. And I've mentioned before that we are one late late pick not blossoming (Kevin) away from this franchise being headed straight for the cellar. You don't sit around and plan on drafting 20ppg scorers in the 20s as your plan. Well, unless you are a fool. That just fell in our lap, as have many of our moves in recent years.


And so now I am just waiting and watching with some bemusement. Perhaps my best hope now is that there is actually kind of a cold war going on in the Kings front office, with Geoff trying to force the Maloofs into understanding the need for a rebuild, and trying to wait for Muss to get a clear idea of what he wants to do. Its a reach, but possible, and the best hope. And I guess we'll see in the next month or so as that trading deadline approaches. In a couple of months they are going to start asking about season ticket renewals, and at this point for the first time this century they have lost mine. Buying those tickets was always more an act of support for the team/management than anything else given the relatively low percentage of games my family actually attends (and almost none that I do). And at this point they no longer have that support. Had I the money I would buy the team and clean out a very stale house. Since I do not, I will merely wait here for events to play out and decide then whether this very shaky house deserves anymore of my money. Perhaps if the product on the floor is not enough to shake the front office out of its dreamworld, the permanently empty seats and shrinking ticket holder list will do so.

Well if you do somehow stumble on enough money to buy the team, you have my support all the way bro. keep rockin!! ;)
 
Perhaps if the product on the floor is not enough to shake the front office out of its dreamworld, the permanently empty seats and shrinking ticket holder list will do so.

My fiancée and I attened the game against Portland this past weekend. I could have swore I did some time traveling with Doc Brown's De Lorean because I felt like I was back in 1997-1998. At least that's how Arco Arena felt like to me that Saturday night.

There were so many empty blue and red seats to be seen. Unless I missed the memo on attending the game disguised as a seat, this "sellout streak" is a joke.

Every time they flashed the Arco Thunder logo on the big screen, I did not feel the Arco Thunder.

For the final moments of the game (late fourth quarter and over time), you could have easily moved everyone from the upper level to the lower level and the arena would probably still have some more room on the lower level.
 
Of course the other half of the "braintrust", and I thought the quotes were appropriate here, is Geoff, who did nothing this summer, ON PURPOSE. Told us he'd do nothing in fact. People did not believe him because that was patently stupid. Then went ahead and did it.

Honestly Brick, what could he have done with the cap room we have?

I think it's tough to accept as owners AND fans that only 3-4 teams in the league are going to be elite any given year and the rest of the teams just strive to get there. What's frustrating about our situation now (and this could go for 2/3 of the teams in the league) is that we're good enough not to ever get a very high draft pick which could produce an elite player, but we're not talented enough to where we could ever hope to be an elite team.

This all being said, Petrie has found a way to make this a competitive franchise. Letting him go or leave is a huge mistake. Ever since he got here we've been competitive every year except for 1998.
 
I stopped reading after the first post. Your comments totally screwed up what would be a great thread.

You have no friends that ever got a DUI? Especially were you live? Not saying its right, but come on. Cheap shots do not prove your arguement or dislike for someone.

Young players outside of there capabilities? What is that supposed to mean? You mean you don't expect players that make more money then we ever could to just shut up and play? Whos fault is it we have this group of players that suck right now?

Identity is created by stars, we have no stars... the ones thinking Artest or Bibby is a star... Answer thats why we have no identity. Give me a real #1 option then we have the Identity. Which is a useless buzz word. When we had a #1.5 we had an identity, take off that 1.5 and we are screwed.

So now after your side shots we have to pretend, Okay I will pretend...

I know the Maloofs and Petrie make more money then me, I know Petrie knows more about basketball then any of us. I know they are trying to make moves. Almost daily you hear about rumors with Sacto in some deal or trade talks. We didn't hear that a few years ago, so they are trying. We just don't have the players to give unless you want to part with the young talent.

Yes the Webb trade, bad for both teams, but again we did not know what was going on behind the scenes with Webb. Not exactly like he has been a model/stable player in the NBA. Its always about him first.

Our mistake was trying to keep it going, now with that said, The Maloofs/Petrie prolly seen a Dallas team that was able to do that. Not going to happen here.

We had one year of semi-glory and now its our given right to go back again. I don't think so. Kings are screwed, IMO buy out contracts like Philly... get ready for this draft.

Not my money so hard to say but if the Maloofs truely want a ring, they will have to pay for one.
 
I don't believe that. They were basketball fans first, that's why they bought a franchise.

LOL and LOL

They are businessmen and thats all there is to it, they seem to benefit with the kings name tag on their other business than the other way around.

Mark Cuban seems to have so much time on his hand that he is a fan first and he is so deeply engaged with the team and the nba, maloofs are there for the money just like 28 other owners around the league.
 
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