"Webber supporters" can criticize CWebb

[uolj]

Since it has been mentioned more than a few times that some people who think that Chris Webber is an asset to the Kings can't or don't criticize him, and since I cannot go back to old threads to disprove this notion, I thought it might be nice to be able to offer thoughts about Webber's play, attitude, or anything else that we believe but that gets lost in the shuffle of constantly refuting more over-the-top criticism.

I know it has been frustrating for me to constantly have to defend Webber especially when it would be fun to have a real discussion about his contributions or lack thereof to the team. To that end I provide this thread.

If you genuinely believe Webber is an asset to the team, but you think his play or actions leave something to be desired in any way, feel free to explain your thoughts here without feeling the need to qualify your statements with the reasons you do like him. This thread will probably fall flat on its face, but I figured I'd give it a shot here in the dreaded offseason.

 

[uolj]

My criticisms:

Regardless of what the infraction was that caused the 5 game drug suspension, he's got to be smart enough to avoid that. It is a small thing but it still affects the team and in most if not all cases is completely unnecessary.

I thought he took too large of a role in the offense when he came back. In hindsight, I think he could have worked himself back into his game better by taking fewer shots in the early going, and really focusing on stuffing stats other than points. I think the points and his contributions on offense would have still been there by playoff time he hadn't jumped right in so quickly, but the other players would have had been better able to adjust and the offense wouldn't have sucked so bad overall.

I wish he would calm down with this sensitivity thing. The less sensitive to criticism he is, the more likely he learns and grows from it. I don't think that having the attitude that fighting against critics makes you stronger. Listening to them while having honest faith in yourself and your abilities would be much more effective.

 

[piksi]

My criticisms:

Regardless of what the infraction was that caused the 5 game drug suspension, he's got to be smart enough to avoid that. It is a small thing but it still affects the team and in most if not all cases is completely unnecessary.

I thought he took too large of a role in the offense when he came back. In hindsight, I think he could have worked himself back into his game better by taking fewer shots in the early going, and really focusing on stuffing stats other than points. I think the points and his contributions on offense would have still been there by playoff time he hadn't jumped right in so quickly, but the other players would have had been better able to adjust and the offense wouldn't have sucked so bad overall.

I wish he would calm down with this sensitivity thing. The less sensitive to criticism he is, the more likely he learns and grows from it. I don't think that having the attitude that fighting against critics makes you stronger. Listening to them while having honest faith in yourself and your abilities would be much more effective.

It is a start.

Since I do not believe he is an "asset" any more I will stay out of it but will enjoy reading.

 

[Mad D]

my criticism: webber sucked last year during the regular season

I hope next year he proves people wrong or is traded (not likely) so they can shut the **** up, hearing the same topics and arguments for a year gets old.

 

[allrightythen]

As far as his play goes, the only thing I would really like to see is him making quicker decisions. I think he still has the skill he needs to be more than effective for the Kings on the court, I just wish he wouldn't hold the ball quite as long. As we all know, he is a very good passer and if he would pick up the tempo a little I think the offense would be that much more dangerous.

 

[fishgirl]

I'm just gonna say there's a lot of room for improvement. Hopefully we'll see some this season.

 

[love_them_kings]

My criticisms:

Regardless of what the infraction was that caused the 5 game drug suspension, he's got to be smart enough to avoid that. It is a small thing but it still affects the team and in most if not all cases is completely unnecessary.

I thought he took too large of a role in the offense when he came back. In hindsight, I think he could have worked himself back into his game better by taking fewer shots in the early going, and really focusing on stuffing stats other than points. I think the points and his contributions on offense would have still been there by playoff time he hadn't jumped right in so quickly, but the other players would have had been better able to adjust and the offense wouldn't have sucked so bad overall.

I wish he would calm down with this sensitivity thing. The less sensitive to criticism he is, the more likely he learns and grows from it. I don't think that having the attitude that fighting against critics makes you stronger. Listening to them while having honest faith in yourself and your abilities would be much more effective.

I'm a Webb supporter, and I believe our team needs him. I'm hoping to see a healthy Webber all season long!

That said, I agee with most of the points in the post above. The one thing Webb has done that still ticks me off is the drug suspension. As a player coming off a long injury, I don't think he should have been doing ANYTHING that might result in extra time off the court.

Also, the sensitivity thing bugs me. While I don't agree with booing someone on the court, I do think he should be able to shrug it off a little better. I realize that he is probably tired of being a scapegoat for all the teams ills, but I think that when you're making millions of dollars a year & constantly in the public eye you need to have a little thicker skin.

I don't agree that Webber took too large a role in the offense when he came back though. I think Webber was doing what he felt like he needed to do to get back his game. I don't think anyone besides him can judge how hard he had to push it to get there. Did the team suffer temporarily? Yes, but he wasn't the only problem. I also blame other team members who seemed to think that they didn't have to move around just because Webber was on the court. Our schedule was tougher, Miller was injured, BJackson got hurt ... There were a lot of factors involved in the end of the season collapse. Even so, I believe that we had a better chance in the playoffs with Webber as healthy as possible then we would have going in as number 1 seed but without Webber. Our team that was performing so well in the early season (playing an easy schedule) was not set up for success without in the playoffs without Webber. Any doubts I had about the way Webb was brought back were answered by the way he played in the playoffs. So, I guess my issues with Webber are not with how he plays on the court as much as how he conducts himself off the court.

 

[Heuge]

Since I do not believe he is an "asset" any more I will stay out of it but will enjoy reading.

Take the blinders off and look at his playoff stats (all on a bum knee).

 

[KingDog]

Last year I saw a man whos' brain was saying "I can do this". Chris came back time after time from ankle injuries that could have ended lesser determined players careers.
The knee injury was of course a much more serious injury. When Chris was brought back last season he DID try very hard to do his best. It is hard, however to play back into BASKETBALL shape in the short amount of time that he was given to try to do so.
Let's all hope that this season Chris' mind and body are both on the same page. If they are, the team should be pretty good especially after the break in period of the new players.
I will reserve my judgement of the team until after we get a few games under our belts.
KD

 

[piksi]

Take the blinders off and look at his playoff stats (all on a bum knee).

sure how about FT %, TO's and yes opponent pts due to him not playing any defense or his transition defense. BTW maybe You can tell me why we weren't the first seed after having 43-15 record.(securing any potential game 7 at home).

Maybe You are the one that has to take the blinders off.

 

[6th]

sure how about FT %, TO's and yes opponent pts due to him not playing any defense or his transition defense. BTW maybe You can tell me why we weren't the first seed after having 43-15 record.(securing any potential game 7 at home).

Maybe You are the one that has to take the blinders off.

There are many many many many threads to complain about Webber. This one was specifically started for Webber supporters. Could you please give this a rest?

 

[Heuge]

sure how about FT %, TO's and yes opponent pts due to him not playing any defense or his transition defense. BTW maybe You can tell me why we weren't the first seed after having 43-15 record.(securing any potential game 7 at home).

Maybe You are the one that has to take the blinders off.

hahaha
How about reading the many, many posts which respond to your very comments. I recognize that Webber was not great last year, but he was good in the playoffs (offensively and defensively). I am not ready to call him a no asset as you are.

 

[piksi]

There are many many many many threads to complain about Webber. This one was specifically started for Webber supporters. Could you please give this a rest?

I did not say anything or give any comments to anything until I was asked to respond. I have no interest in commenting this issue. Just reading.

 

[piksi]

hahaha
How about reading the many, many posts which respond to your very comments. I recognize that Webber was not great last year, but he was good in the playoffs (offensively and defensively). I am not ready to call him a no asset as you are.

You see - there is a problem on Your part.

He is not an asset for me. Nothing You say is going to change that but You still can not accept my point of wiev.

On the other hand I can accept and understand Your point of wiev. I have no problem with You idolizing him. I want no part in arguing about that. I respect your opinion and am I not using any sarcasam just because I do not agree.

 

[Heuge]

I do not idolize him as you say. I just think he has worth (much of it) I think you have blinders on if you do not recognize any value. That is silly. In that I regard I do not accept your veiw and I do not have to. I can accept your veiw (while I do not agree) that you do not like him and want to see him go.

 

[piksi]

I do not idolize him as you say. I just think he has worth (much of it) I think you have blinders on if you do not recognize any value. That is silly. In that I regard I do not accept your veiw and I do not have to. I can accept your veiw (while I do not agree) that you do not like him and want to see him go.

Well I think that You have blinders on if You think that he has much worth.
So where are we going to get with this ?

 

[6th]

No where! Could we knock it off now and get back to the regular programming?

 

[Heuge]

Well I think that You have blinders on if You think that he has much worth.
So where are we going to get with this ?

You honestly can say he has no value...wow

 

[living legend]

You honestly can say he has no value...wow

Considering his ridiculous salary, nope.

 

[Heuge]

No NBA player will "earn" their ridiculous salary. Most NBA vets are horribly overpaid. I am talking about on the court contributions to his team. He is not perfect, but most absolutely has value.

 

[SacKings384]

Wow it's pretty odd how ONE season can turn some people so sour...

 

[bibbyweb]

Wow it's pretty odd how ONE season can turn some people so sour...

Word.....
And a season with a major injury I might add. People really tend to have a really short memmory in these matters.

 

[Alacron]

Without Webb we don't even get to see Minnesota last year, so don't bring that "he is not an asset" crap in here.

Uolj, I truly do appreciate what you tried to do with this thread, but I think it was doomed from the start. I agree there are plenty of things Webb could improve on but we hardly ever get to discuss those genuine issues because we are always trying to refute some pretty ridiculous claims.

I agree with all your points, and I would like to add one more... hustle. You'd never expect Webb to be the first guy on the floor for a loose ball, and that always bothered me. But I must say that during these last playoffs he left it all on the court, along with Doug. I just hope that carries over to this season, and judging from his bold postseason comments, I expect nothing less.
~~

 

[Bricklayer]

You see - there is a problem on Your part.

He is not an asset for me. Nothing You say is going to change that but You still can not accept my point of wiev.

On the other hand I can accept and understand Your point of wiev. I have no problem with You idolizing him. I want no part in arguing about that. I respect your opinion and am I not using any sarcasam just because I do not agree.

Your use of the word idolizing is a joke considering your own well known biases toward a certian player, or class of players..

I will give you some credit and assume your NO value statement is merely hyperbole. Otherwise you have just made your opinion absolutely irrelevant in much the same way a scientist might by stating up front that he believes that the earth is flat.

Now we can go through the entire tiresome argument one more time, although it is pointless as you do not have ears to hear, or you can just butt out of a thread that by its very title was not intended for you.

 

[Evenstar]

webber is a member of the kings, so i support him. now he does do things that i don't support ( as do others on the kings) and i do have my criticisms of him, but overall i still support him. i want him to do well for the team.

my criticism of him are i don't like all this " it's my team" crap. get over it. you play on a TEAM, you can't win alone. check the ego at the door, let's play as a TEAM and win it all! if the kings are anyone's team, it's bibby. he lets the playing do the talking.

webber has a lot to offer the team when he is healthy. he is legitimatly one of the top 3 PF's in the game when healthy. as a fan, i will continue to support webber as long as he is a member of the sacramento kings.

 

[AriesMar27]

the kings dont stand a chance in the playoffs without webber. look at what happened this year against minny and last year with dallas.... dallas of all of the teams to lose to, and whose fault was that? who? no one wants to blame peja because we are accustomed to seeing him disappear in the playoffs.... Webber was out, bibby was still injured and peja was no where to be seen. webber gets a triple double in the playoffs on one leg and he is to blame for our problems.

what about game three against minny? peja had made like 70 free throws in a row up until the 4th quarter, then what happened? we lose game 3 because of peja's inability to hit his ft's... the same man that lead the league in ft %. what would have happened if we hadnt lost to the warriors and won the pacific? with peja as a no show and webber on one leg, the spurs would be champions right now. not the kings and why? not because of webber, eventhough some of you would blame him anyways.

the kings could have beaten the lakers with a one legged webber, hell peja would have went crazy against the lakers because no one on that team could guard him. but unfortunatley for us, peja started to miss his free throws in game 3 and we lost.

just think of the possibilities... who was going to stop peja? bibby? webber would have been fine..... damn it would have been nice, the kings could have been champions... but peja missed a free throw and we lost in ot.

 

[Mad D]

im just throwin this out here:

http://www.82games.com/034PSAC1.HTM

 

[Bricklayer]

As an aside, a modestly healthy Webber led the team in that particular stat in 2002-03 with a 71.6% win percentage

 

[ReinadelosReys]

-Anyone can criticize anyone else, that just the way things are. I have my criticism of Cwebb and they just don't stem from his time here on the Kings, they are from his college days a Michigan and his rookie year in Oakland.

To say that Chris Webber is not an asset to the team is just a detriment to yourself than anything else. This is board where we respect each other and value each others opinions because we think that the other person typing on the computer knows a thing or two about the game that Naismith created. To say something like that, puts that belief in jeopardy in the eyes of many.

-And even to this day, where we are mere weeks away from the start of a new season, it amazes me how people still want to place the sole blame of the late season declension of the Kings on Webber's shoulders. " Win as a team, lose because of Webber" is how I think Superman put it some time ago.

-A little off topic, but somewhat related-In relation of Webbs leadership skills: I was watching "The Sierra Central Sports roundtable" this morning. For anyone not in the area, its this little Saturday morning show that discusses regional sports, with funny (and sad) commercials. It features Harold Pressley (I think everyone knows who he is), Scott Marsh (who works for KHTK), Jodi Bacon (who also works for KHTK) and some other guy who works for Sierra central.

Anyhow, the subject of the Kings came up. They said that there's really no news of the "I want a trade" Peja front and with training camp opening up in a few weeks, they really need to hold a players meeting before it even starts, before media day. "Who's the one to do it?" asked Marsh.(As far as I know, Pressley is privy to some of the inner workings of the Kings) To which Pressely replied, Chris Webber has already done that. He has already called some of the guys, gotten some of them together "like they used to." Including Peja asked the other guy from Sierra Central. And Pressley said yes.... Take from that what you want, believe it if you want, just passing what I hear along.

 

[VF21]

I am a Sacramento Kings fan. As such, I root for the players who wear the Sacramento Kings uniform...

Having said that, of course I wasn't happy with the additional 5-game suspension Webber received last year. But I'm not going to continue to belabor it. Why? A couple of reasons: 1) We don't know what the suspension was for; 2) It's over and done with.

At this point, I am no longer interested in replaying the regular season. The powers that be within the Kings made a decision to bring Webber back (which had to be done). Although they might have chosen a different path, they didn't. They did what they felt was best for the Kings and for Webber. And in the end, Webber WAS ready for the playoffs - and I think that was their main goal.

I look at it this way:

Let's say my goal is to get to ARCO in time for the playoffs. That is the goal - not taking the easiest route or the most scenic route or the route with the most restaurants along the road.

There are a lot of routes I can take to get there. If there are other people with me, they may have strong opinions about which route they would like to see me take. But the bottom line decision is mine to make, and for a variety of reasons I make a decision to take a certain route and off we go. Along the way, we've planned to stop for gas, for food, etc. The route I've selected has a few pitfalls. In fact, the road is under construction for part of the way, meaning it's bumpy and the going is slow.

But it is my car, I made the choice and everyone is pretty much stuck with it.

The journey progresses, and as it goes on, something interesting happens. The road itself may be less than perfect but the people in the car - some of whom haven't ridden together for a while - are slowly beginning to remember why they get along so well together. They begin to merge into a cohesive fan unit again, one that will rock the rafters at ARCO.

When we reach ARCO, we are in plenty of time. We weren't the first ones there, but we have a pretty darned good parking spot, we get to our seats in plenty of time and we settle in for a good series.

At this point, does it really still matter how we got there?