Tyreke, Jimmer, Thornton, and Cousins

[Italics]

These 4 players, in my opinion, have the potential to be stars in the NBA.

Up to this point in the season, we have seen with each of them glimpses of what they are capable of - yet none of them have come anywhere even close to consistently playing well.

I'm hoping our new coach can help adjust these players' mentalities and attitudes as to help them drop their bad play habits (which all four have) and increase the good. Can you imagine if all four of these players played to their full potential?

Until then, this is a team with a lot of "high potential" guys who are playing extremely inconsistently. I suppose the lockout didn't help.

 

[Bricklayer]

That's a fairly transparent attempt to attach Jimmer's name to the cool kids.

Quite obviously Reke, Cousins and Thornton have star potential. We've seen 2 of them average 20ppg for us before age 23, and the one who hasn't yet (Cousins) might be the most talented of all. That's the whole idea of this team. The whole build. We have 3 of the top 10 kids to come in the league in the last few years, and that's our planned core for the future. 60pts of young stars, then fill in with support personnel.

Now Jimmer...we'll have to see but its considerably doubtful. Certianly no signs of it yet. But his job isn't to become a star anyway. In order to be a solid move what he needs to do is become at least as effective as Beno Udrih, the man he replaced, but provide more range on his shot to help space things for the young trio. If he can do that, be that glue third guard Beno played last year, then he's got a solid long term place on the team. With the big minutes Reke and Thornton will play, there is really only time for one more 24min a night guard anyway. Jimmer obviously has first dibs on that spot if he can pick up his game. And traditionally this franchise rarely gives up on its kids early anyway. He's an older rookie and so is closer to being what he will be than a guy who's 19, but if history is any guide he'll have a few years here to lock the spot down.

 

[rainmaker]

I get as tired of the grouping Jimmer with the stars posters, as I do with the he sucks and won't be anything more than an off the bench spot up shooter posters.

I get the impression we have a number of posters who didn't watch Jimmer in college, and have become experts over a 7 game stretch. Many think he's simply a shooter, a spot up shooter, which goes against his entire college career. He's a pg who happens to be a great shooter, although not of yet at the NBA level.

He is unselfish, and prefers creating. But over the 7 game stretch to start the season, and most likely for months longer, he hasn't figured out the speed/length of NBA defenses, and where those passing lanes will be, nor is he familiar with his teammates. Our sorry excuse for anything resembling an offense under Westy only hurt him, as well as everyone else on the roster.

He'll be good. Will be a pg most likely. Will be a great shooter. A star? Doubtful. Definitely not on the Reke/Cousins level. A starter on a playoff team? I'd wager yes. Not convinced Thornton will be a star either. Yeah he can score, but it isn't consistent. Hustles like hell on defense, but is regularly out of position. Too selfish right now, and while he might have passing ability, isn't showing it. A star helps your team win, even when he's off. Reke and Cousins can do that, and will even moreso down the road, as they mature, and as they already assault just about every statistical category.

 

[Bricklayer]

I get as tired of the grouping Jimmer with the stars posters, as I do with the he sucks and won't be anything more than an off the bench spot up shooter posters.

I get the impression we have a number of posters who didn't watch Jimmer in college, and have become experts over a 7 game stretch. Many think he's simply a shooter, a spot up shooter, which goes against his entire college career. He's a pg who happens to be a great shooter, although not of yet at the NBA level.

He is unselfish, and prefers creating. But over the 7 game stretch to start the season, and most likely for months longer, he hasn't figured out the speed/length of NBA defenses, and where those passing lanes will be, nor is he familiar with his teammates. Our sorry excuse for anything resembling an offense under Westy only hurt him, as well as everyone else on the roster.

He'll be good. Will be a pg most likely. Will be a great shooter. A star? Doubtful. Definitely not on the Reke/Cousins level. A starter on a playoff team? I'd wager yes. Not convinced Thornton will be a star either. Yeah he can score, but it isn't consistent. Hustles like hell on defense, but is regularly out of position. Too selfish right now, and while he might have passing ability, isn't showing it. A star helps your team win, even when he's off. Reke and Cousins can do that, and will even moreso down the road, as they mature, and as they already assault just about every statistical category.

I know for whatever reason you've had a hard time coming around on the Thornton positon, but you're probably going to have to at some point here.

Last year he more or less matched Eric Gordon's production during his time with us. This year he's half a tic off and "only" putting up Manu numbers. Either way he's clearly been playing at a star level ever since we aquired him.

10-11 21.3pts (.450 .361 .805) 4.7reb 3.4ast 1.7stl 0.2blk 2.1TO
11-12 19.4pts (.444 .381 .844) 3.9reb 1.6ast 1.8stl 0.1blk 2.1TO

I mean, unless we are using the term "star" to mean superstar, that's just a star guard. Throw in high energy level and clutch genes and all you have to do is start winning some games for that to be All Star caliber.

 

[bajaden]

I know for whatever reason you've had a hard time coming around on the Thornton positon, but you're probably going to have to at some point here.

Last year he more or less matched Eric Gordon's production during his time with us. This year he's half a tic off and "only" putting up Manu numbers. Either way he's clearly been playing at a star level ever since we aquired him.

10-11 21.3pts (.450 .361 .805) 4.7reb 3.4ast 1.7stl 0.2blk 2.1TO
11-12 19.4pts (.444 .381 .844) 3.9reb 1.6ast 1.8stl 0.1blk 2.1TO

I mean, unless we are using the term "star" to mean superstar, that's just a star guard. Throw in high energy level and clutch genes and all you have to do is start winning some games for that to be All Star caliber.

Yeah, I have to agree with you on this one. The one attribute that I like about Thornton is that when his outside shot isn't dropping, he finds other ways to score. And he does bust his butt on defense, and is probably leading the team in steals. Guys with less talent and fewer credentials have played in the all star game. In reality, who is and isn't a star is subjective, and to some extent, depends on the system they play in and who their playing with.

As far as Jimmer goes, its a tad early to put his name up there. Down the road, who knows? I never say never until, well, its never. I'll be happy if Jimmer can become a good PG that can set up the offense, and get guys open shots. And also, when left open, keep people honest. Right now, regardless of anything else, he makes someone guard him, and that helps the offense.

 

[rainmaker]

I know for whatever reason you've had a hard time coming around on the Thornton positon, but you're probably going to have to at some point here.

Last year he more or less matched Eric Gordon's production during his time with us. This year he's half a tic off and "only" putting up Manu numbers. Either way he's clearly been playing at a star level ever since we aquired him.

10-11 21.3pts (.450 .361 .805) 4.7reb 3.4ast 1.7stl 0.2blk 2.1TO
11-12 19.4pts (.444 .381 .844) 3.9reb 1.6ast 1.8stl 0.1blk 2.1TO

I mean, unless we are using the term "star" to mean superstar, that's just a star guard. Throw in high energy level and clutch genes and all you have to do is start winning some games for that to be All Star caliber.

I'm not convinced. Could he? Yes, and I'll happily admit I'm wrong. The talent is there scoring wise, obviously, but I don't see the entire package being there. I wouldn't say it's unlikely he'll turn out to be a star, just saying I'm not convinced as of yet.

Two guys I've compared him to, and I see a lot of in, as I'm sure you've seen the comparison before, are Crawford and Terry. Both have put up close to 20pts per when starters. Hell, they've come close in the high teens off the bench. I consider Thornton a younger version of either, and maybe even a more pure scorer than Terry. But as with them, I don't see the all around impact as star quality.

All three have the clutch gene. All three usually finish games. All three when hot, can carry a team in the 4th. But would you label any of them stars? I never would have put Crawford or Terry in the star category. They're game changers when they're hot, but can also be somewhat invisible when they're off. I'd say Terry and Crawford are damn good NBA players, and some of the best scorers in the league, and Thornton is well on his way there. I see that in Thornton. But how much does he really contribute when not scoring?

Reke and Cousins I'd put in the category of future star, because of the sheer number of ways they can change/impact a game. Cousins will get to the point he's drawing doubles regardless of whether he's on or not. He'll command that attention, just as Reke will. If Reke or Cousins is off scoring wise, especially down the road when they mature, I would not take them off the court unless in foul trouble. Even if they're both 1-10, they can still lock down defensively, own the glass against their opponent, and the attention they draw opens it up for everyone else.

However with Marcus, if he's 1-10, then I'd strongly consider bringing someone else in and see if they have it for a stretch, because he isn't contributing in anywhere near as many ways. Not on defense, not setting other up, not commanding attention.

I hope that changes, I really do. But I also really see a lot of Terry/Crawford in him. Those guys started half their careers, if not more, and could still start for most teams. If we didn't have Thornton, and had one of them instead, they'd be starting and putting up big numbers. Doesn't mean I think it's their best role. On this squad, right now, Thornton needs to start. But ideally, his a 6th in my mind.

I guess my question to you would be, did you consider Terry/Crawford stars in their prime, and do you think Thornton will be better than either? Personally I didn't consider either a star, as even in their primes they wouldn't have started for every team in the league, and while I think Thornton could have a similar career as both, I'm not convinced he'll be better than both.

 

[Henkel]

Rainmaker you're pretty diplomatic here, but you're post is somewhat dismissive. I'm getting tired of people who like to condescend to everyone who doesn't share their opinion.

I watched the kid in college and I said it when he was drafted and I'll say it now, I don't think Jimmer has star potential. He is always going to be a liability on the defensive end, due to his average athleticism, and he isn't a very creative ball handler. I also think his vision is some what overrated. of course he has a lot of strength as well, biggest being his shooting ability. In the end I see him as more of a role player, which is fine considering where he was drafted and what this team needs.

 

[Sac.1989]

True rainmaker but as part of the Reke Cousins dynamic in leading this team forward, he doesnt have to be better then either of those.

We must do all we can to ensure Cousins gets as close to reaching his potential as possible whilst harnessing Tyrekes strengths in a system that works for both.

Marcus ending up as good as the pair mentioned on the production end is all thats needed. It could be that eventually he does even make the transition to lead guard off the bench depending on Jimmers development (not that im for it)

If we get a high draft pick this season and grab a steller SF or PF (in a very deep draft) then id say were there for some exciting times having built this team completely from the draft

 

[rainmaker]

True rainmaker but as part of the Reke Cousins dynamic in leading this team forward, he doesnt have to be better then either of those.

We must do all we can to ensure Cousins gets as close to reaching his potential as possible whilst harnessing Tyrekes strengths in a system that works for both.

Marcus ending up as good as the pair mentioned on the production end is all thats needed. It could be that eventually he does even make the transition to lead guard off the bench depending on Jimmers development (not that im for it)

If we get a high draft pick this season and grab a steller SF or PF (in a very deep draft) then id say were there for some exciting times having built this team completely from the draft

I'm not saying Thornton needs to be equal to or better than Reke/Cousins. On this team, with our roster, he's our 3rd wheel, and we need him to be successful at exactly that. But he's also somewhat a role player off Reke/Cousins, although not a role player in the typical sense of the word. But he plays off them, whether hot or not, and the attention they draw. It's not the other way around, where Reke/Cousins play off the attention Thornton draws, because teams have game planned to stop him instead of Reke/Cousins.

He's that guy who can kill a team for doubling down on our stars, Reke and Cousins.

Me not classifying him as a star does not mean I don't think he's a damn good player, our 3rd best player, and know what he means to this team. He's vital to our roster, and any success we'll have given how the roster in constructed.

 

[rainmaker]

Rainmaker you're pretty diplomatic here, but you're post is somewhat dismissive. I'm getting tired of people who like to condescend to everyone who doesn't share their opinion.

I watched the kid in college and I said it when he was drafted and I'll say it now, I don't think Jimmer has star potential. He is always going to be a liability on the defensive end, due to his average athleticism, and he isn't a very creative ball handler. I also think his vision is some what overrated. of course he has a lot of strength as well, biggest being his shooting ability. In the end I see him as more of a role player, which is fine considering where he was drafted and what this team needs.

Yeah my post is kind of dismissive towards those who have popped up out of the woodwork lately stating either Jimmer sucks, or Jimmer can only be a Kerr or Redick type, to those who also anoint him a star, our best player, and our teams only hope of success.

It was not directed at you. I apologize if you took it that way. But this forum has had an overflow of both extremes lately, both positive and negative.

 

[Lafayette]

Did someone say JIMMER, The Uber Super Mega Shooter from the FUTURE, sent to save Sacramento from the Movers!

 

[Tetsujin]

Did someone say JIMMER, The Uber Super Mega Shooter from the FUTURE, sent to save Sacramento from the Movers!

Ladies and gentlemen, Dennis Rodman!

 

[Bricklayer]

When a guy just goes out and scores 20ppg every night on solid perentages and fills out the rest of the statsheet there just isn't much to prove at a certain point. He's one of the Top 20 scorers in the league even with his numbers depressed by that odd Memphis brownout. It certainly wouldn't surprise me to find him still there at the end of the season despite the shot competition if Reke and Cousins emerge. The only two guards in the league scoring significantly more than he is are Kobe and Monta. He's within 1.5pts of Rose, Gordon, Allen and Jennings, he's currently outscoring Wade, Manu, Martin, Deron, Westbrook etc. And its not as if this is just some early season fluke -- he's shown this same explosiveness every since he first set foot in the league. The Hornets just made a huge error.

He's a more prolific scorer than either Terry or Crawford by a full order of magnitude, and the reason being that he's physical and aggressive. Crawford and Terry are just gunners. Small, weak, outside oriented gunners. True 3rd guards because they don't have a true position and can play a little point. But neither makes any plays of note around the hoop and are largely dependent on getting hot from outside. Thronton is alredy a better all around scorer and a pure SG. If Thronton is not a star, then neither is Gordon, nor really any other SG below the Kobe/Wade class. And we can define it like that. But at that point there are maybe 12-15 stars in the league.

 

[BMiller52]

I get as tired of the grouping Jimmer with the stars posters, as I do with the he sucks and won't be anything more than an off the bench spot up shooter posters.

I get the impression we have a number of posters who didn't watch Jimmer in college, and have become experts over a 7 game stretch. Many think he's simply a shooter, a spot up shooter, which goes against his entire college career. He's a pg who happens to be a great shooter, although not of yet at the NBA level.

He is unselfish, and prefers creating. But over the 7 game stretch to start the season, and most likely for months longer, he hasn't figured out the speed/length of NBA defenses, and where those passing lanes will be, nor is he familiar with his teammates. Our sorry excuse for anything resembling an offense under Westy only hurt him, as well as everyone else on the roster.

He'll be good. Will be a pg most likely. Will be a great shooter. A star? Doubtful. Definitely not on the Reke/Cousins level. A starter on a playoff team? I'd wager yes. Not convinced Thornton will be a star either. Yeah he can score, but it isn't consistent. Hustles like hell on defense, but is regularly out of position. Too selfish right now, and while he might have passing ability, isn't showing it. A star helps your team win, even when he's off. Reke and Cousins can do that, and will even moreso down the road, as they mature, and as they already assault just about every statistical category.

I agree with this.

 

[BMiller52]

When a guy just goes out and scores 20ppg every night on solid perentages and fills out the rest of the statsheet there just isn't much to prove at a certain point. He's one of the Top 20 scorers in the league even with his numbers depressed by that odd Memphis brownout. It certainly wouldn't surprise me to find him still there at the end of the season despite the shot competition if Reke and Cousins emerge. The only two guards in the league scoring significantly more than he is are Kobe and Monta. He's within 1.5pts of Rose, Gordon, Allen and Jennings, he's currently outscoring Wade, Manu, Martin, Deron, Westbrook etc. And its not as if this is just some early season fluke -- he's shown this same explosiveness every since he first set foot in the league. The Hornets just made a huge error.

He's a more prolific scorer than either Terry or Crawford by a full order of magnitude, and the reason being that he's physical and aggressive. Crawford and Terry are just gunners. Small, weak, outside oriented gunners. True 3rd guards because they don't have a true position and can play a little point. But neither makes any plays of note around the hoop and are largely dependent on getting hot from outside. Thronton is alredy a better all around scorer and a pure SG. If Thronton is not a star, then neither is Gordon, nor really any other SG below the Kobe/Wade class. And we can define it like that. But at that point there are maybe 12-15 stars in the league.

I would love to see you go on a site with more objective posters who aren't kings fans and debate this.

 

[Bricklayer]

I would love to see you go on a site with more objective posters who aren't kings fans and debate this.

I have, although I take a different approach.

 

[Entity]

I have been excited about rookies before. Thompson, Martin, Reke, Cousins. I like Jimmer as well. But what in the world has he done to deserve all this love he is getting. He has yet to do as good as Garcia did as a rookie or Hawes or Thompson or martin, or Reke or cousins. I know its only 8 games into the season. All those players showed me something in the first few weeks to deserve excitement. I was very excited about Jimmer before the season started. I though heck yeah a great shooter. But as of right now I have the same reaction when Jimmer comes in as I do Travis Outlaw. I just shake my head knowing I am about to see a train wreck. J.J. Redick had about the same Hype as Jimmer coming out of college and at this point I just hope Jimmer can live up to the standards of Redick. I hasn't shown me anything in the passing game where he is better than reke who isn't a prolific passer himself. He has shown me nothing on defense AT ALL. And to top it all off his real niche in the NBA (his shooting ability) is abysmal at best. So really stop with the Jimmer is great and a superstar because quite frankly you are making a fool of yourself. At least wait until he actually looks good in a couple of games with some consistency in the aspects needed as a pg in the NBA then i will listen but right now its foolish.

 

[BMiller52]

I have, although I take a different approach.

link? interested to see it.

 

[BMiller52]

I have been excited about rookies before. Thompson, Martin, Reke, Cousins. I like Jimmer as well. But what in the world has he done to deserve all this love he is getting. He has yet to do as good as Garcia did as a rookie or Hawes or Thompson or martin, or Reke or cousins. I know its only 8 games into the season. All those players showed me something in the first few weeks to deserve excitement. I was very excited about Jimmer before the season started. I though heck yeah a great shooter. But as of right now I have the same reaction when Jimmer comes in as I do Travis Outlaw. I just shake my head knowing I am about to see a train wreck. J.J. Redick had about the same Hype as Jimmer coming out of college and at this point I just hope Jimmer can live up to the standards of Redick. I hasn't shown me anything in the passing game where he is better than reke who isn't a prolific passer himself. He has shown me nothing on defense AT ALL. And to top it all off his real niche in the NBA (his shooting ability) is abysmal at best. So really stop with the Jimmer is great and a superstar because quite frankly you are making a fool of yourself. At least wait until he actually looks good in a couple of games with some consistency in the aspects needed as a pg in the NBA then i will listen but right now its foolish.

Martin didnt even play as a rookie, Cisco was a 25 year old rookie, Hawes always had talent just recently discovered the work ethic, and Tyreke and DMC are supposed to be future stars. I'm not saying jimmer will be a star but what you said is not entirely true and rather harsh.

 

[Entity]

Martin did play as a rookie and when he got good min he looked good. Jimmer is getting 20+ min every night and doing nothing with them. is he even shooting 30%. Cisco was same age as Jimmer I guess you forgot Jimmer is 24. I am saying at best with the current roster Jimmer's ceiling is 1st guard off the bench. He will never unseat tyreke or marcus. So BYU/Jimmer fans should really get used to that.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I think with Thornton your talking about a Jamal Crawford/Jason Terry type career as an average projection for him.

Would I be shocked if he turned into THAT guy in order for the team to win meaningful playoff games? no, I wouldn't ... but I think he's more on the side of Monta Ellis than Jamal Crawford.

Just to kind of reiterate what some other posters said, when his shot isn't falling he attacks the rim with force. He really is a bulldog out there. The edge I give him over guys like Crawford, Kevin Martin, and to a lesser extent Ellis is how much he wants it. How hard that guy plays. Look at the way he crashes the boards when he's angry. He plays with a rare sort of chip on his shoulder .. the kind you can see in Demarcus Cousins when he isn't using that chip to the detriment of the team.

He's still young though. I don't want to put unrealistic expectations on his shoulders. Will he ever be as good as Monta? maybe not .. but just cause he isn't technically 'better' it doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have him. He brings things to the table that prototypical gunner/scoring undersized 2's usually DON'T bring, and thats why I love the guy.

 

[jpsls]

Martin did play as a rookie and when he got good min he looked good. Jimmer is getting 20+ min every night and doing nothing with them. is he even shooting 30%. Cisco was same age as Jimmer I guess you forgot Jimmer is 24. I am saying at best with the current roster Jimmer's ceiling is 1st guard off the bench. He will never unseat tyreke or marcus. So BYU/Jimmer fans should really get used to that.

Jimmer is 22

 

[Entity]

Why was i thinking he was 24? my bad

 

[Italics]

That's a fairly transparent attempt to attach Jimmer's name to the cool kids.

Quite obviously Reke, Cousins and Thornton have star potential. We've seen 2 of them average 20ppg for us before age 23, and the one who hasn't yet (Cousins) might be the most talented of all. That's the whole idea of this team. The whole build. We have 3 of the top 10 kids to come in the league in the last few years, and that's our planned core for the future. 60pts of young stars, then fill in with support personnel.

Now Jimmer...we'll have to see but its considerably doubtful. Certianly no signs of it yet. But his job isn't to become a star anyway. In order to be a solid move what he needs to do is become at least as effective as Beno Udrih, the man he replaced, but provide more range on his shot to help space things for the young trio. If he can do that, be that glue third guard Beno played last year, then he's got a solid long term place on the team. With the big minutes Reke and Thornton will play, there is really only time for one more 24min a night guard anyway. Jimmer obviously has first dibs on that spot if he can pick up his game. And traditionally this franchise rarely gives up on its kids early anyway. He's an older rookie and so is closer to being what he will be than a guy who's 19, but if history is any guide he'll have a few years here to lock the spot down.

To paraphrase something Charles Barkley said last night during the Heat-Hawks game: "There are a lot of high scorers in the NBA who are not star players. Just because you're a high scorer on a bad team doesn't make you a great player. SOMEONE has to do the scoring on a bad team."

In short: Tyreke and Thornton averaging decent points on an awful team (the Kings) doesn't amount to jack squat.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Tetsujin]

To paraphrase something Charles Barkley said last night during the Heat-Hawks game: "There are a lot of high scorers in the NBA who are not star players. Just because you're a high scorer on a bad team doesn't make you a great player. SOMEONE has to do the scoring on a bad team."

In short: Tyreke and Thornton averaging decent points on an awful team (the Kings) doesn't amount to jack squat.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

And how does this relate to Brick saying that Jimmer's name doesn't really deserve to be mentioned with Reke, MT, and Big Cuz as potential stars just yet then?

I'm sorry but you're letting your love for Jimmer cloud your judgement.

 

[Arkitect]

To paraphrase something Charles Barkley said last night during the Heat-Hawks game: "There are a lot of high scorers in the NBA who are not star players. Just because you're a high scorer on a bad team doesn't make you a great player. SOMEONE has to do the scoring on a bad team."

In short: Tyreke and Thornton averaging decent points on an awful team (the Kings) doesn't amount to jack squat.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

There are also a lot of high scorers on good teams too. In fact, there are probably more high scorers on good teams than bad teams. After all, you have to put the ball through the hoop in order to win. If you can't see a difference between what Tyreke and Thorton bring to the table vs. someone like Jennings or Kevin Martin you should watch more NBA games.

 

[beb0p]

And how does this relate to Brick saying that Jimmer's name doesn't really deserve to be mentioned with Reke, MT, and Big Cuz as potential stars just yet then?

Nothing. He wasn't talking about Jimmer.

 

[mac]

There are also a lot of high scorers on good teams too. In fact, there are probably more high scorers on good teams than bad teams. After all, you have to put the ball through the hoop in order to win. If you can't see a difference between what Tyreke and Thorton bring to the table vs. someone like Jennings or Kevin Martin you should watch more NBA games.

Nah, Jimmer is better than Kobe Bryant. The only reason why we're not seeing it is because his team mates aren't getting him the ball. /sarcasm

 

[origkds]

To paraphrase something Charles Barkley said last night during the Heat-Hawks game: "There are a lot of high scorers in the NBA who are not star players. Just because you're a high scorer on a bad team doesn't make you a great player. SOMEONE has to do the scoring on a bad team."

In short: Tyreke and Thornton averaging decent points on an awful team (the Kings) doesn't amount to jack squat.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

High scorers on bad teams impress me all the more, especially ones with good shooting percentages like Thornton. They find a way to produce despite poor coaching or help from their teammates.

 

[BMiller52]

Nah, Jimmer is better than Kobe Bryant. The only reason why we're not seeing it is because his team mates aren't getting him the ball. /sarcasm

lol I think it's funny that people are criticising a 22 year old rookie with no offseason and a shortened preseason for not showing enough when he's averaging like 10 PPG and 3 APG on a team where the coach just got fired. I'm not saying he's going to be a star, but if everyone would take off the homer glasses for a second they would realize not all these other guys on our team will be either, or that just because he might not be a star doesn't mean he can't be a key contributor or decent starter. I mean if you asked a lot of fans on other forums if Thornton was a star, you would be laughed out of the website. I like MT but I'm not convinced he's a star, so I don't think mentioning Jimmer with him is an insult or anything. MT has a lot to improve when it comes to defense and play making, and he's not going to be a perfect player either.

btw how are people going to say Thornton brings more to the table than Jennings when Jennings has led a team to the playoffs already and is a good young PG? Thornton is a more efficient shooter than Jennings but that's it, Jennings is more important to that team IMO. I'm not saying Thornton isn't a good player either.

Not to mention the idea that there are "more high scorers on good teams than bad teams" is not entirely true. The Spurs have a bunch of guys that are role players at this point in their career, and they all chip in and do their job. That means rebounding, defending, creating for teammates and being unselfish, etc. The Warriors have had seasons with a bunch of scorers on their team and ended up as a lottery team, same thing with the Knicks(anyone remember Marbury), etc. Marcus is a hell of a scorer, but he's passed up open players to shoot it himself, doesn't board very much(yeah I know he's a 2 guard), and is slightly undersized on defense. He's a good player, he's important to our team, but to act like it's an insult to mention him with a promising young rookie is not really realistic IMO.