Trade IT for? (split)
- Thread starter Darth Divac
- Start date
Done.
Note to newer members: Our forum is separated by topics. We created a separate forum for trade discussions (Personnel Moves) for the simple reason our regular discussions were being totally corrupted by ceaseless talks of fictional trade ideas. If you have a trade idea, please feel free to post it in the Personnel Moves forum. You might want to read the Tips on posting trade ideas. We kind of made it a rule that if you're going to post a player trade proposal, it has to match salary-wise AND you need to say why you think each team involved would do it. Thanks!
Note to newer members: Our forum is separated by topics. We created a separate forum for trade discussions (Personnel Moves) for the simple reason our regular discussions were being totally corrupted by ceaseless talks of fictional trade ideas. If you have a trade idea, please feel free to post it in the Personnel Moves forum. You might want to read the Tips on posting trade ideas. We kind of made it a rule that if you're going to post a player trade proposal, it has to match salary-wise AND you need to say why you think each team involved would do it. Thanks!
If you're going to trade him, it has to be now. Next year his role will undoubtedly change, unless major poop happens.
However, you're going to have to package him with someone for either salary or pick purposes, because I don't know that IT alone will net you more than another second rounder, and seeing how for a 2nd rounder he's actually valuable, I'd rather keep him.
However, you're going to have to package him with someone for either salary or pick purposes, because I don't know that IT alone will net you more than another second rounder, and seeing how for a 2nd rounder he's actually valuable, I'd rather keep him.
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Great topic! ok i'd say sacramento has the edge in keeping the team.
SO....!!!! that also means that Petrie/Smart and friends are out.... so unlike last season i'd expect whoever takes over this mess. is going to have 2 main objectives both relate to IT.
#1 - EVANS- what to do? he shouldn't be too hard to keep. but the question is do we? this team is still loaded with 2's or guys that play like SG's... Jimmer, IT, Thornton, Evans, and Salmons applies here too. I just dont see any new GM giving up Evans unless its a blockbuster deal or if some team totally loses its mind and goes MAX contract type of a deal. with that said i think we keep Evans under the assumption that it was the previous front office and coaches fault that he sucked, and with a strong foundation starting with the NEW OWNERS! TO THE FO AND NEW COACH!!! Evans can thrive!!! so im betting we keep him. in that case it takes us to
#2 - fix log jam at SG and get a SF..... no way Jimmer, IT, Thornton, Evans and Salmons all end up on the roster next year. this midget ball reign comes to an end!!! thank the heavens! ok so as someone else pointed out IT is due basically PEANUTS next year. Jimmer is pretty cheap also with Thornton due 7mil.
to me it comes down to this... EVANS is the starting SG... he can be paired with a more traditional PG or a shooter/SG and take over the PG position from time to time. or every once in a while even slide to the SF spot. with Evans starting at the 2 it makes it tough to start MT moving him to the 6th man could have totally worked if not for Smarts stupid rotations and mins. I think MT could STILL be a amazing instant offense 6th man.
which brings us to IT... IT is a great player and deserves to be in this league. but in reality is just a instant offense/ great 6th man not a starter. which means that the choice the new front office has to make is do we trade IT or MT? we really have 2 guys that are undersized and basically do the same things. minus IT is a better PG. I think trading IT will allow us to get a draft pick or allow us to dump someone with him. Trading MT could possibly open up more cash to sign an ALL-STAR type player (thats if we amnesty Salmons also which we should) and land us a draft pick. If we trade MT then we still have a undersized "instant offense" guy off the bench who is better fit to play PG on the sec team anyway. As much as i love MT and his clutch-ness... I think IT can fill the same roll off the bench and keep the pay roll down... I would ask who do we trade MT for ______?_______ and a draft pick?
First off, thanks for adding some specifics to this thread. Its easier to bite into a sandwich than a whole loaf of bread. If its our intent to move someone to clean up the guard position, and possibly bring some symmetry to the roster, and we want to keep Tyreke, then I think it does come down to either Thornton or Thomas. At that point, it comes down to who you want to target. If your going after experienced help in the frontcourt, then your probably trading dollar for dollar. Same thing if your looking for an experienced SF. That would mean Thornton who makes enough money to bring back a good player. If you looking to just aquire another 1st round pick, which I think IT is worth as a proven player in the league, then it has to be IT.
These are all questions more easily answered after the draft and during the freeagency period. I do think there are deals to be had. The Bucks are overloaded with frontcourt players, and it looks like no one is going to take Sanders job away at the PF position anytime soon. On the other hand, the Nuggets have an excess of SF's. So pick your poison! I still like Jordan Hamiliton, among others. As for a lower pick in the first round, I'd be happy with either Withey or Dieng. Withey is the better shotblocker, and Dieng, who can block some shots, is the better man defender. With Noel out of the picture, Withey led all of college in blocked shots averaging just slightly under 4 per game. I happen to disagree with those that think Withey isn't a very good athlete. A great athlete? No, but athleticism isn't a problem. I like both Dieng and Withey. Both players know their role.
These are all questions more easily answered after the draft and during the freeagency period. I do think there are deals to be had. The Bucks are overloaded with frontcourt players, and it looks like no one is going to take Sanders job away at the PF position anytime soon. On the other hand, the Nuggets have an excess of SF's. So pick your poison! I still like Jordan Hamiliton, among others. As for a lower pick in the first round, I'd be happy with either Withey or Dieng. Withey is the better shotblocker, and Dieng, who can block some shots, is the better man defender. With Noel out of the picture, Withey led all of college in blocked shots averaging just slightly under 4 per game. I happen to disagree with those that think Withey isn't a very good athlete. A great athlete? No, but athleticism isn't a problem. I like both Dieng and Withey. Both players know their role.
I'd like to see how he does under a real coaching staff before trying to move him. He could be valuable piece, plus he's low risk and comes very cheap. Lets see what value he can add in real system with a upgraded roster rather then going for an even more inexperienced mid round pick in a bad draft class.
If we do look to trade him this off season it better be as part of a package with our pick and maybe a throw in like Jimmer for a veteran player. The last thing this team needs is another influx of undeveloped talent.
If we do look to trade him this off season it better be as part of a package with our pick and maybe a throw in like Jimmer for a veteran player. The last thing this team needs is another influx of undeveloped talent.
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That's crazy to me. I knew people had a low opinion of him, mostly because he is asked/allowed to do too much on what is fundamentally a bad team, but wanting to trade him for a late first rounder is rough. Even if you're right, still hard to see how it's not worth the risk if you are only losing out on players that are unlikely to contribute. Another late to mid pick in a bad draft is just pointless. Lets try something crazy even unprecedented around these parts and either develop the talent we already have or get some proven commodities in return. I doubt IT, on his own at least, has the value to get you one of those types of players, so I hope we take a small risk, if you can even consider it a risk, and see what pans out under a new regime.
My take is largely because I don't think he has a lot of potential to get any better than he is now. As a starting PG he is averaging 14 points and 4 assists. You can find that out of about 10 guys through free agency, and a couple others in the draft.
If we could swing a deal to get Isaiah out of here, you can easily replace his production with a guy like Beno Udrih, who is a free agent this offseason averaging 10 points and 6AST since being traded to orlando. Another guy I like is Jose Calderon. Like Isaiah, I wouldn't consider either of these guys 'starters' but as a replacement backup PG, Udrih and Calderon would be a good veteran fit. I still think the starting PG spot needs to be addressed either way. Thomas is not a starter in my opinion.
I'd take a veteran free agent who is more team oriented over Isaiah Thomas next season anyway, so if we can get a draft pick for him .. why not?
Some scenarios I'd consider - if we went with one of the point guards in this years draft - Marcus Smart, Trey Burke, Carter-Williams - you use that guy as the starter, deal off Thomas for a second first rounder, draft Dieng or Wilthey (two defensive bigs slated to go in the second half of the first round) and then sign Udrih or Calderon. Hell, I'd even keep Douglas as a backup point guard. I'd also consider stashing a euro player with that second 1st rounder.
then pick up jeff withey.I absolutely do not want any draft picks. Let's settle in with what we have and develop them and also develop a team. We have a very good offense. If the draftee was a shot blocker, I would change my mind but I am worn out on young guys with unknown future. We need role players. We need defenders. I don't know who Dieng is so can't comment on a note that explains nothing.
indeed. unless a kings draft pick will immediately improve the team's defensive/rebounding prospects, i don't see the point. it's just more wheel-spinning, hoping that another unproven talent will become the team's secret ingredient. i will continue to insist that it's more useful to this team's current trajectory (with DMC and 'reke, that is) to parlay any and all draft picks into veteran roleplayers, known quantities who will provide specific help in the areas where the kings are most deficient...
alternatively, new ownership could blow the whole thing up and start over (yet again) by refusing to re-sign evans and trading demarcus cousins, but my sense is that they wouldn't want to start from utter scratch. they've gotta get asses in the seats permanently. they won't be able to ride the "here we stay" hype forever. so they should start where the current organization has failed by bringing in veteran talent that effectively complements demarcus cousins and tyreke evans...
alternatively, new ownership could blow the whole thing up and start over (yet again) by refusing to re-sign evans and trading demarcus cousins, but my sense is that they wouldn't want to start from utter scratch. they've gotta get asses in the seats permanently. they won't be able to ride the "here we stay" hype forever. so they should start where the current organization has failed by bringing in veteran talent that effectively complements demarcus cousins and tyreke evans...
You guys would really trade him for a late first round pick? Thomas is about the 8th-10th most valuable player from his draft class depending on how you look at it.
Obviously he's not worth that high of a pick if you traded him but the chances of getting a better player than IT in the 20th-30th pick range is about 1 in 10. We're more likely to get a Quincy Douby or Jon Brockman than a serviceable player like Thomas.
Obviously he's not worth that high of a pick if you traded him but the chances of getting a better player than IT in the 20th-30th pick range is about 1 in 10. We're more likely to get a Quincy Douby or Jon Brockman than a serviceable player like Thomas.