The "Real" Ron Artest

Hicks

Hicks

G-League
#1
#1
This may be a bad time to mention it, coming off an emotional game, but I'm not around KF.com often and wanted to get this out while I'm here. Again, I apologize in advance for stepping on any toes.

But tonight was the first time you got to see the one big on-court red flag involving Ron Artest. He doesn't handle pressure well. What you saw tonight, taking a series of bad shots and missing most of them, which disrupts the offense, is what he would do to us in big, close games. Tonight reminded me of his games during the 2004 Eastern Conference Finals. He takes a lot of forced shots when he feels he has to win the game for his team, and usually it just ends up hurting them.

I'm not here to gloat. But I did want to point out one of the reasons seeing him leave wasn't so awful, aside from all the off-court issues.

Now to prove I'm not here to be a jerk, let end by saying that Ron still brings a ton of positives to every game. Energy, determination, defense, toughness, some good offense, etc. And when he's not being Captain Cancer off the court with his antics and distractions, he's still a hell of an asset. But you want someone other than him dominating the ball at the end of 9/10 close games.

Good luck for the rest of the season. Now that this game's over with, I'll be happy to see the Kings do well into the post season. I'm a huge Brad Miller fan and Ron is still fun to watch.
 
H

Hoopsforlife

Prospect
#4
#4
Hicks said:
This may be a bad time to mention it, coming off an emotional game, but I'm not around KF.com often and wanted to get this out while I'm here. Again, I apologize in advance for stepping on any toes.

But tonight was the first time you got to see the one big on-court red flag involving Ron Artest. He doesn't handle pressure well. What you saw tonight, taking a series of bad shots and missing most of them, which disrupts the offense, is what he would do to us in big, close games. Tonight reminded me of his games during the 2004 Eastern Conference Finals. He takes a lot of forced shots when he feels he has to win the game for his team, and usually it just ends up hurting them.

I'm not here to gloat. But I did want to point out one of the reasons seeing him leave wasn't so awful, aside from all the off-court issues.

Now to prove I'm not here to be a jerk, let end by saying that Ron still brings a ton of positives to every game. Energy, determination, defense, toughness, some good offense, etc. And when he's not being Captain Cancer off the court with his antics and distractions, he's still a hell of an asset. But you want someone other than him dominating the ball at the end of 9/10 close games.

Good luck for the rest of the season. Now that this game's over with, I'll be happy to see the Kings do well into the post season. I'm a huge Brad Miller fan and Ron is still fun to watch.
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I didn't think Ron shot that many bad shots. The Kings problem tonight was they simply couldn't hit layups. They must have missed 8-9 easy (sort of) in close put backs.

Anyway it was a good game on both sides. Just at separate times.

Oh and Granger was a beast.. :)
 
V

vj9999

Starter
#7
#7
BigWaxer said:
To be honest we lose nothing if Artest cannot handle pressure. Peja never could either.
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I agree with you, but the big diference is Peja never demanded the ball so he also didn't miss alot of shots in the 4th either. If Ron is like Hicks says, he demands the ball and misses alot which ends up hurting alot more than Peja's Houdini act.

.... but ROn brings alot more intensity and D!!
 
Hicks

Hicks

G-League
#8
#8
What impressed me about Peja tonight was he had more points, rebounds, blocks, and a higher FG% than Ron tonight. Coming in, it was "he's one dimensional".

And you know what, people keep trying to preach to me how horrible Peja is in the clutch, but I have two things to say in response to that.

1) When called upon as a Pacer, he's had good looks, and some have been nothing but net, another was just in and out. He hasn't looked like much of a choke artist with the exception of some missed free throws.

But more importantly is:

2) Ron Artest is your best player. Peja is not our best player. He doesn't HAVE to be confused for Reggie Miller in the clutch. Jermaine O'Neal is, and he is expected (and wants) to take the game winning shots. I'm fine with letting him do so.
 
LMM

LMM

Starter
#10
#10
In fairness to Artest he HAS delivered and came through for the Kings in the clutch. Adelman has trusted him and put the ball in his hands a lot. I think he has been delivering more often than not. Tonight was a bad game, it happens.

We've won 14 of 18 coming in. Can't win 'em all. There's a LOT of room for improvement.

The stat that I just read earlier today is an amazing stat. The Kings are 6-1 after a loss since Artest arrived. We're 15-7 with Ron (before tonight) and so that means we haven't lost in back-to-back games since Ron's 1st 2 games.

Reciliency, I like it. Now I expect us to win Sunday against the Wolves. ;)
 
Hicks

Hicks

G-League
#11
#11
BigWaxer said:
I love everything Indiana but your being an ***. Why don't you post your Artest bashing on your board!
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Being critical and out-right bashing are two different things. Trust me, if any Pacer fan wanted to bash the guy, there is a barrel full of things we could use to do it other than honest to God faults of his game. I wanted to bring this up because I've seen it before, he reminded me of it tonight, and I felt like sharing that this is a typical Artest issue. Nothing more; relax.
 
V

vj9999

Starter
#12
#12
BigWaxer said:
I love everything Indiana but your being an ***. Why don't you post your Artest bashing on your board!
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They get a fare share of Kings fans bashing on Peja over there though. Eye for an eye I guess :) Athough IMO Hicks is being very civil about it.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#13
#13
I've never thought Peja's one dimensonal, I've always stuck up for him, and pointed out things people overlook because his offense (scoring/shooting) is what he gets noted for in the general. From what I've seen, Peja is inconsistent in the clutch and 4th quarter, and overall, so far in his career, not good. He has indeed had his bunch of moments though. Hope Indy can keep Peja around this summer.


Kings have a different system than the Pacers. Ron's also matured (in a couple ways) since 2004, and still is.

I'm not worried about Ron
 
Burrito06

Burrito06

Bench
#14
#14
If anything when O'neal comes back you are going to see the real Peja. When Peja is the man like he was here when Webber was out he will do all the little things like he did tonight. Once O'neal comes back he is going to take a back seat and there will be a lot of frustrated fans watching Peja hide in his little corner. On another note, this was the first time I ever saw Peja attacking the rim so hard. I wasn't all that hard but hard to Peja's standards. I'm sure he'll do fine for all you pacer fans. He's got a new start and seems to be taking advantage of it. It's nice to see.
 
Kingsgurl

Kingsgurl

Starter
#15
#15
But tonight was the first time you got to see the one big on-court red flag involving Ron Artest. He doesn't handle pressure well. What you saw tonight, taking a series of bad shots and missing most of them, which disrupts the offense, is what he would do to us in big, close games. Tonight reminded me of his games during the 2004 Eastern Conference Finals. He takes a lot of forced shots when he feels he has to win the game for his team, and usually it just ends up hurting them.
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Seen a bit of that already, actually. Thing is, we were SO bad defensively that no one would have even gotten the opportunity to hurt us with bad decisions in the post season, since we weren't going to be there. Take the good with the bad, as they say. I DO wish he didn't think he had to 'do it all' or be the man offensively, because it DOES hurt us at times, like tonight.
 
SacKings384

SacKings384

Starter
#17
#17
It's ok, Ron won't be given as much leway once crunch time hits, the ball will be predominantly in Bibbys hands. If this is Rons one downside, that's ok, he brings so much upside it's ridiculous...
 
BigWaxer

BigWaxer

Starter
#18
#18
Well then we are seeing this two different ways. I see it as the Pacers were lucky to get this win.

In a game where he played 45 minutes, all our starters were playing major minutes and had the game in control until the end. IE: when they were tired (shots falling short) of course this is not to take away from the play of the Pacers as they hung in there and got a nice win on their home court.

Also I would not consider Artest our Clutch guy, and yes I consider Artest our best player, if not one of the best all around players in the game. I am not a big JO fan so I will not go there as I probably couldn't be fair and objective.

As far as Artest numbers they were about what he has been doing since he has been here, with the exception of a few great games, tonight was a fairly average night.

I love Peja also so not going to bad mouth him anymore then saying he doesn't want the ball in the 4th and he almost refuses to take the last shot. I thought I seen some of that tonight.
 
BigWaxer

BigWaxer

Starter
#19
#19
vj9999 said:
They get a fare share of Kings fans bashing on Peja over there though. Eye for an eye I guess :) Athough IMO Hicks is being very civil about it.
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I like Hicks, just upset about the loss and this topic right after the loss but I will get over it.

If our fans are over there bashing Peja then I would be a little disapointed in our fans. No need to bash Peja, I actually think Peja needed a RC type coach and I would really like to see him shine and go on to do good things in this league and for the Pacers.
 
Hicks

Hicks

G-League
#20
#20
I am a bit concerned that Peja will mirror what he did in 2004, being great without Webber and not so much with him. Same could happen with JO.

However, my hope comes from a couple of things. The first is that most of the time in Indiana when a player is just standing around, it's because our coach tells them to (running the play). So I expect if Rick wants him involved, he'll be involved. He has not once acted scared to have the ball.

The second is that this is a different situation than Sacramento. Who knows what Rick has in mind when JO is back, but I'm damn sure it involves making JO-Peja a 1-2 combo on offense, and I'm very interested to see how that works out.

Frankly, Peja doesn't shoot enough right now. For whatever reason, Rick lets Stephen Jackson take the most shots on this team, not Peja. Their FGAs should be reversed, and I blame Rick for that not Peja. If JO takes up Jack's shots, and Peja's stay the same, I can live with it.
 
quick dog

quick dog

Starter
#21
#21
Ron played OK. If the big guys would have made lay-ups, the Kings would have won. How long will Peja play like this? My guess is that he will relax a bit when the spotlight is moved. As far as the Kings and Artest goes, you can't win them all. They will be back, and very soon.
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#22
#22
Hicks said:
I am a bit concerned that Peja will mirror what he did in 2004, being great without Webber and not so much with him. Same could happen with JO.

However, my hope comes from a couple of things. The first is that most of the time in Indiana when a player is just standing around, it's because our coach tells them to (running the play). So I expect if Rick wants him involved, he'll be involved. He has not once acted scared to have the ball.

The second is that this is a different situation than Sacramento. Who knows what Rick has in mind when JO is back, but I'm damn sure it involves making JO-Peja a 1-2 combo on offense, and I'm very interested to see how that works out.

Frankly, Peja doesn't shoot enough right now. For whatever reason, Rick lets Stephen Jackson take the most shots on this team, not Peja. Their FGAs should be reversed, and I blame Rick for that not Peja. If JO takes up Jack's shots, and Peja's stay the same, I can live with it.
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So what happenes with jacksons role ? He is a volume shooter and a bad one. Who is going to stop him from shooting and how. Pedja will be OK with JO but Jackson may take the efficiency away by being Jackson. If You decide and manage to resign Pedja - You are going to have to trade Jackson.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#23
#23
quick dog said:
Ron played OK. If the big guys would have made lay-ups, the Kings would have won. How long will Peja play like this? My guess is that he will relax a bit when the spotlight is moved. As far as the Kings and Artest goes, you can't win them all. They will be back, and very soon.
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uuuhhhh, Ron missed quite a few layups too. He said so himself in the postgame quotes.

Even though I missed something like ten lay-ups, which would have been 20 more points.
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http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/quotes_060317.html

Just a bad game for the team tonight. No one played particularly good.
 
LMM

LMM

Starter
#24
#24
piksi said:
So what happenes with jacksons role ? He is a volume shooter and a bad one. Who is going to stop him from shooting and how. Pedja will be OK with JO but Jackson may take the efficiency away by being Jackson. If You decide and manage to resign Pedja - You are going to have to trade Jackson.
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I was thinking about this as well. No doubt Indiana should run a lot of stuff through the Peja and JO combo but you have to wonder how Jackson's going to accept a diminished role.

You never know what will happen until they actually play games together. I think it could work. Carlisle just has to figure out how to utilize each of them effectively, and the players should learn to accpet whatever role they are given. Easier said than done, but we'll see.

Indiana will be very good and dangerous if those 3 are clicking together.
 
LMM

LMM

Starter
#27
#27
Like I said earlier, Kings are 6-1 after a loss since Artest arrived. That one back-to-back loss was from his 1st two games as a King, both on the road. Since then, the Kings haven't lost in back-to-back games. I think that's great.

Minny, here we come! :D
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#28
#28
LMM said:
I was thinking about this as well. No doubt Indiana should run a lot of stuff through the Peja and JO combo but you have to wonder how Jackson's going to accept a diminished role.

You never know what will happen until they actually play games together. I think it could work. Carlisle just has to figure out how to utilize each of them effectively, and the players should learn to accpet whatever role they are given. Easier said than done, but we'll see.

Indiana will be very good and dangerous if those 3 are clicking together.
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Actually, they might be much better if JO, Pedja and Tinsley get to click together. You add Granger and Foster - You got an awsome starting five. Jackson is not a good fit for motion offense. He is a volume shooter and he can't be good as 3rd option. He could be a filler with JO if they can get KG in the summer. If they do that and manage to resign Pedja - it would make them very, very dangerous.

We still need more pieces. we keep losing games because we don't have a backup PG. Mike has such a heuge milage and it is still March
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#29
#29
quick dog said:
I said he played OK, not great. He indeed was one of the big guys missing lay-ups tonight. They will be back
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No problem...the way it was worded sounded like you meant something different to me. Happens.:)
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#30
#30
Hicks said:
Jackson is always a concern. He didn't do that well when JO and Ron were both playing.
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Can he step back again ? it doesnt look that way. I said it several times. A team where Jackson is the first option is a lotter team. You guys are so good that event with him sucking - You have enough to keep you around .500.
You put Tinsley,Granger,Pedja JO and Foster on the floor at the same time and You can compeat with everyone. You add couple solid bench players (not Jackson and not Jones) and it gets scary

So - can You stay healthy ?
 
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