The Future (a.k.a Marvin Bagley III and De'Aaron Fox and your Sacramento Kings)
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
As far as young players go and building a team, IDK that I'd want any other 2 than Swipa and MB3. If H20 keeps coming along and remains healthy, he can become that 3rd guy.
If you really think about it, the KINGS now have 3 players that could have been #1 overall picks if various circumstances had been different. MB3, Fox and Giles all have #1 pick talent.
If you really think about it, the KINGS now have 3 players that could have been #1 overall picks if various circumstances had been different. MB3, Fox and Giles all have #1 pick talent.
Level up your model for how positions work, friend.
Our core has 2 spots for versatile big men. Harry and Bagley.
They need to be developed to do everything at this point and we must not pigeon hole them into any identities. Ideally they both should be developed into 7 footers (ish) that can weakside and switch defend, playmake, shoot, and be great wide receivers for Fox.
Right now Bagley is already a reliable 20 and 10 workhorse machine, but Harry already has an above average feel for the game. Both could learn from each other.
We’re lucky that they’re both great kids that think there could be nothing more fun in the world than play and learn basketball with your brothers.
Our core has 2 spots for versatile big men. Harry and Bagley.
They need to be developed to do everything at this point and we must not pigeon hole them into any identities. Ideally they both should be developed into 7 footers (ish) that can weakside and switch defend, playmake, shoot, and be great wide receivers for Fox.
Right now Bagley is already a reliable 20 and 10 workhorse machine, but Harry already has an above average feel for the game. Both could learn from each other.
We’re lucky that they’re both great kids that think there could be nothing more fun in the world than play and learn basketball with your brothers.
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Trying not to get all giddy and sh*t, but I've never seen a rookie accelerate like Bags. It's a two deviation jump. The kind of jump that indicates stardom.
Since the beginning of the year, Bags has:
1. Stretched his range to beyond the three point line. I made a comment earlier in the year that Bags would eventually be able to get around 2 threes per game. Got laughed at. Not too far off now.
2. Spin off of either shoulder in the paint and score or create.
3. Grab a board and go coast to coast while finishing with a euro step off of either hand (albeit, he's still mostly left hand dominate).
4. His vision, IQ, and facilitation has improved--playing with Giles has undoubtedly helped here.
5. Consistently hitting his midrange.
6. Timing and IQ on defense, leading to 1+ blocks per game.
In addition to refining each of the above, would like to see him:
7. Work on the principle of verticality with Kosta. Two hands, straight up for blocks.
8. Go for blocks with his right hand--his coverage expands 2x.
9. Work on a jump stop while in transition. Then go for a midrange or pass to wings/trailers.
10. Work on his right hand. Finishing and driving.
11. Get bigger.
Since the beginning of the year, Bags has:
1. Stretched his range to beyond the three point line. I made a comment earlier in the year that Bags would eventually be able to get around 2 threes per game. Got laughed at. Not too far off now.
2. Spin off of either shoulder in the paint and score or create.
3. Grab a board and go coast to coast while finishing with a euro step off of either hand (albeit, he's still mostly left hand dominate).
4. His vision, IQ, and facilitation has improved--playing with Giles has undoubtedly helped here.
5. Consistently hitting his midrange.
6. Timing and IQ on defense, leading to 1+ blocks per game.
In addition to refining each of the above, would like to see him:
7. Work on the principle of verticality with Kosta. Two hands, straight up for blocks.
8. Go for blocks with his right hand--his coverage expands 2x.
9. Work on a jump stop while in transition. Then go for a midrange or pass to wings/trailers.
10. Work on his right hand. Finishing and driving.
11. Get bigger.
In all seriousness, this is the question. Is De'Aaron Fox Mike Conley or what John Wall was supposed to be? Is Marvin Bagley Chris Bosh+ or...?
These are the guys we'll ride with and give our salary cap to. We need at least one of them to be top 5-10 and the other to be top 10-20 to have a chance to win a title. Giles is an insurance policy.. maybe he'll be our other top 20.
However it shakes out, this is a wonderfully fun ride that we're on.
These are the guys we'll ride with and give our salary cap to. We need at least one of them to be top 5-10 and the other to be top 10-20 to have a chance to win a title. Giles is an insurance policy.. maybe he'll be our other top 20.
However it shakes out, this is a wonderfully fun ride that we're on.
Maybe I'm being a rose-colored glasses homer, but I think Fox is easily going to be better than Conley and Bagley easily better than Bosh. Just on his defense alone, Fox is superior to Conley. Just on the force of his inside offensive game alone, Bagley is superior to Bosh. Bagley's offense in the paint at age 20 looks better than Bosh's interior offensive game in his prime. It's like Christie says: He doesn't even know the NBA game of basketball. He's doing all this stuff on God-given physical talent right now. Unless these guys get all full of themselves and really go off the rails because of wine, women, song and laziness, at the minimum I see 7+ years of All Star status for each one of them. And I could legitimately see superstar status as their ceiling.
Giles is the true wildcard for me. He's the black box. I'm going to have to wait to see him next season before I can begin to have an idea of what kind of player he can be.
Giles is the true wildcard for me. He's the black box. I'm going to have to wait to see him next season before I can begin to have an idea of what kind of player he can be.
Bagley is showing more and more flashes with defense, ballhandling and outside shooting, which all open up his potential, but I think what will make the difference between star and superstar is improving his vision and passing. He has made some impressive passes at times, but still average 1 assist despite drawing a lot of defensive attention. He seems more likely to spin away from the double team for his shot than to hit the open man.
The few bigs that are considered elite #1 options are typically averaging 4+ assists. It's usually said that great court vision is more inherent than learned. Is it only a matter of shifting emphasis from looking for his shot to looking for others? Can he warp the defense with his post presence and hit shooters for open threes? Can he create from a triple threat position on the perimeter and drive and dish? It seems like the tools are there if his awareness can improve. At the rate he learns, I couldn't put it past him.
The few bigs that are considered elite #1 options are typically averaging 4+ assists. It's usually said that great court vision is more inherent than learned. Is it only a matter of shifting emphasis from looking for his shot to looking for others? Can he warp the defense with his post presence and hit shooters for open threes? Can he create from a triple threat position on the perimeter and drive and dish? It seems like the tools are there if his awareness can improve. At the rate he learns, I couldn't put it past him.
One thing I noticed about DeAaron that really doesnt show up in the stat sheet is how well he can dictate the pace of the game. When he is in the game the flow changes and it's because he controls it.
I think his major problem is in the half court and taking charge. He misses a lot of pull up shots just outside the paint and in the paint that I think have to do with tired legs after a whole season of running. I would like to see him work on his leg strength this offseason to help offset this. Lots of squats and lunges. He comes up short on some shots that I think would fall with more leg strength.
I think his major problem is in the half court and taking charge. He misses a lot of pull up shots just outside the paint and in the paint that I think have to do with tired legs after a whole season of running. I would like to see him work on his leg strength this offseason to help offset this. Lots of squats and lunges. He comes up short on some shots that I think would fall with more leg strength.
When asked what he worked on last summer he said, I worked on my shot, and I lifted weights. I'm sure he'll do more of the same this coming summer. The Kings have an excellent training staff so I'm not too worried. But your right about what he needs to do. I felt it was his leg strength late in games at Kentucky that caused a lot of his shots to come up short. He was definitely better from the three this year. Actually he ended up being better than I thought he would be.
All he needs to do is get stronger, maybe tighten his handle a bit more, and shoot about 10,000 three's this summer. I would recommend the same program for Bagley. If Bagley can average close to 38% from the three, then you looking at a superstar.
All he needs to do is get stronger, maybe tighten his handle a bit more, and shoot about 10,000 three's this summer. I would recommend the same program for Bagley. If Bagley can average close to 38% from the three, then you looking at a superstar.
I believe this will be the key to what the Kings decide to do this summer.
If the Kings feel that Bagley can become a legit 3 point threat (i.e. 37-40% on 3's), I think the Kings would feel comfortable to bring back WCS on a good sized contract.
I believe that Bagley will be the key to WCS future with the Kings. Bagley is clearly the rising star with the superstar potential. The Kings will need Bagley or the other starting frontcourt player to be a knock down 3 point shooter. If Bagley can demonstrate that he can become that stretch 4 option, then I think the Kings will bring back WCS. If the Kings FO feels they need another stretch 4 or 5, then I think they let Willie walk to sign someone like Brook Lopez or Nikola Mirotic.
The point being, is that the Kings need to start fitting the pieces around Fox and Bagley, their potential superstar tandem. WCS doesn't fit with Bagley (offensively), unless the Kings feel Bagley can become that stretch option in the frontcourt.
If the Kings feel that Bagley can become a legit 3 point threat (i.e. 37-40% on 3's), I think the Kings would feel comfortable to bring back WCS on a good sized contract.
I believe that Bagley will be the key to WCS future with the Kings. Bagley is clearly the rising star with the superstar potential. The Kings will need Bagley or the other starting frontcourt player to be a knock down 3 point shooter. If Bagley can demonstrate that he can become that stretch 4 option, then I think the Kings will bring back WCS. If the Kings FO feels they need another stretch 4 or 5, then I think they let Willie walk to sign someone like Brook Lopez or Nikola Mirotic.
The point being, is that the Kings need to start fitting the pieces around Fox and Bagley, their potential superstar tandem. WCS doesn't fit with Bagley (offensively), unless the Kings feel Bagley can become that stretch option in the frontcourt.
What's a Luka?
Bagley is not peaking. Is this a joke? Bagley has the steepest learning curve of any NBA player I have seen since the 1950s. He is just starting to launch. He is a hard worker and will continue to improve for a long time. I don't think his stardom will require him to shoot the 3 at 40%.
Giles is still getting over his trauma from injuries but is making great progess after a tough start. He has tremendous quickness for his size, much like Bagley. He game is complete and he is an outstanding passer.
Fox is already a game changer at both ends. His jump shot is right where it was in college, maybe a little better. He finishes at the rim like superman. He puts pressure on other teams by getting the ball up court even after made baskets. His defense can change the outcome of games. He needs to pass better.
Bagley is not peaking. Is this a joke? Bagley has the steepest learning curve of any NBA player I have seen since the 1950s. He is just starting to launch. He is a hard worker and will continue to improve for a long time. I don't think his stardom will require him to shoot the 3 at 40%.
Giles is still getting over his trauma from injuries but is making great progess after a tough start. He has tremendous quickness for his size, much like Bagley. He game is complete and he is an outstanding passer.
Fox is already a game changer at both ends. His jump shot is right where it was in college, maybe a little better. He finishes at the rim like superman. He puts pressure on other teams by getting the ball up court even after made baskets. His defense can change the outcome of games. He needs to pass better.
I think Harry has made some serious strides this season. I remember watching him at summer league, and then earlier in the year, and when he got the ball in the low post, he was somewhat mechanical, as though he was thinking about what he was going to do. Last night when the ball was passed to him in the lane, the minute the ball touched his hands, he knew he had Dirk guarding him and he made an almost lightning like spin move right past Dirk for a layup.
I think his confidence level in his ability, and in his body to withstand the rigors of the NBA has grown, and as a result, were starting to see the emergence of what he can be as a player. The skills were always there, but just rusty enough to create some lack of confidence. Add in that no matter what the doctor says, or the trainer says, there's always the lingering doubt in the back of your mind about your knee's. The only way to remove it, is to get out there and get banged around.
I've been very impressed with him the last 15 or so games. Harry could end up being very special, and if so, what a steal for where he was drafted.
I think his confidence level in his ability, and in his body to withstand the rigors of the NBA has grown, and as a result, were starting to see the emergence of what he can be as a player. The skills were always there, but just rusty enough to create some lack of confidence. Add in that no matter what the doctor says, or the trainer says, there's always the lingering doubt in the back of your mind about your knee's. The only way to remove it, is to get out there and get banged around.
I've been very impressed with him the last 15 or so games. Harry could end up being very special, and if so, what a steal for where he was drafted.
