The champs

[Bricklayer]

I wanted to start a thread about last season's champs, the Pistons. Namely a thread about what the hell they did to themselves this offseason.

Last year's Pistons:

C - B.Wallace
PF- R.Wallace
SF- Prince
OG- Hamilton
PG- Billups

Bench
SF- Williamson 30
PG- James 29
PF/C- Okur 25
C- Campbell 36
--------------
Deep Bench (otherwise known as crap)
PG- Hunter 33
SF- Ham 31
PF- Milicic 19
SF- Fowlkes 28

Okay, so being world champs, what do you do?

1) You let your backup PG, James, leave via FA. You apparently replace him with Smush Parker, who did not play last year.
2) You trade away your backup SF/former 6th man of the year, Williamson, for...37 yr old Derrick Coleman.
3) You let your backup PF/C, Okur, leave via free agency. You replace him with 30yr old Antonio McDyess who has played in a grand total of 52 games in the last three years.

So your bench now looks like:
Bench
PG- Hunter 33
PF/C - Coleman 37
C- Campbell 36
PF/C- McDyess 30
SF- Ham 31
PF- Milicic 19
12th-??

Um...WHAT???? You've now got 5 starters, a ancient decrepit bench, and one kid who may or may not be talented enough to play and who is now buried behind tons of bodies covered in liver spots. Larry brown has been notable for two things over his gypsy basketball career: 1) quickly making a positive impact on teams he takes over; and 2) destroying those same teams within a few years. Could we be on to phase 2 already?

 

[Nikos]

You forgot to mention Delfino, who might be able to get some time at the '3' or '2' this season as a backup.

He is young and probably won't be able to score well at this level as a rookie, but he is a solid athlete and could probably give them some energy and defense off the bench.

But aside from that, what you mention is interesting. I guess they are really banking on Mcdyess to be healthy again. If he is, then things might work out. If not................

 

[6th]

The Pistons will not repeat as champs. In fact, I would say they have very little chance of winning the East.

Yes, phase 2 has begun.

 

[Gargamel]

...

Ax and Smash!

 

[Gargamel]

The Pistons will not repeat as champs. In fact, I would say they have very little chance of winning the East.

Who's your pick for EC champ?

 

[bibbyweb]

Who's your pick for EC champ?

Pacers. They should have won the last year itself. But Pistons put a really great show and also injuries and some vital plays by the Pistons and some lazy plays by Pacers played their part.

 

[Nikos]

Ax and Smash!

I know

Weren't they awesome? My favorite tag team ever. Watched wrestling in the late 80s and the early 90s.

 

[6th]

Who's your pick for EC champ?

I think it is too early to pick because I want to see how some teams jell...oh, I am so happy I am getting LP this year.

I will say that my early choice would also be the Pacers. Of course, they are my fave team in the East, so that is wishful thinking more than an actual pick at this time.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Why blameBrown, those personel decisions were Dumars.

 

[Bricklayer]

Why blameBrown, those personel decisions were Dumars.

Actually, that coleman move had Brown's fingerprints all over it. I'd furthermore argue that Okur left Detroit, and was let go by Detroit, at least in part because of his relationship with Brown.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Actually, that coleman move had Brown's fingerprints all over it. I'd furthermore argue that Okur left Detroit, and was let go by Detroit, at least in part because of his relationship with Brown.

C'mon lets at least hold Dumars partialy responsable. The fingerprints may be Larrys but the gun belongs ot Durmars and he ultimalty decides who pulls the trigger and when. If LB is behind these bad deals, Dumars is behind Larry. Personaly I have never been a big fan of Brown, but he is that master of the quick turn arround, and I do appreciate his no nonsense aproach to players.

 

[quick dog]

The Pistons have the opportunity to play Shack more often now. Every little bit helps.

 

[Gargamel]

I know

Weren't they awesome? My favorite tag team ever. Watched wrestling in the late 80s and the early 90s.

They owned the Brain Busters.

Sabonis looks a little like Ax, by the way.

 

[bibbyweb]

C'mon lets at least hold Dumars partialy responsable. The fingerprints may be Larrys but the gun belongs ot Durmars and he ultimalty decides who pulls the trigger and when. If LB is behind these bad deals, Dumars is behind Larry. Personaly I have never been a big fan of Brown, but he is that master of the quick turn arround, and I do appreciate his no nonsense aproach to players.

Larry Brown is a great coach. Even I a great fan of his. But sometimes he does make some really unjustifiable decisions.

Lets see what the Pistons do this year, but things dont seem to have atleast got any better for them.

 

[AleksandarN]

Actually, that coleman move had Brown's fingerprints all over it. I'd furthermore argue that Okur left Detroit, and was let go by Detroit, at least in part because of his relationship with Brown.

wrong the trade for DC was a cap saveing move as his contract ends one year sooner also Scorliss was playing PF alot last year and now that they got a healthy Dice back his playing time would have been limited and same with OKUR.

 

[KA_2]

This is an odd thread:

1) Okur sucks. Who cares if he didn't get injured a lot, he was a sorry defender and average at everything else. Oh, but he can shoot. Milicic can play, and will get many more minutes. That's a good thing, and is why Dumars didn't overpay to keep the soft oft known as Okur.

2) James was a FA, Dumars didn't have a chance to sign him. He went to the Bucks because he wanted to. Check a Pistons board.

3) Corliss was a 6th man in 2002. He doesn't have it anymore (shot poorly from the floor last season and was a non factor defensively). The Pistons would have easily won without him last season. His replacement leaves much to be desired, I agree there.

And yet, this still doesn't stop Dumars from making deadline moves, which I'd say he has proven to be pretty damn good at. Not only that, but the Pistons' starting 5 is exactly the same, so I don't really see what the problem is, especially when Milicic is going to get much more PT this season, and that's never a bad thing unless you're convinced he's a flop.

 

[VF21]

This is an odd thread:

1) Okur sucks. Who cares if he didn't get injured a lot, he was a sorry defender and average at everything else. Oh, but he can shoot. Milicic can play, and will get many more minutes. That's a good thing, and is why Dumars didn't overpay to keep the soft oft known as Okur.

2) James was a FA, Dumars didn't have a chance to sign him. He went to the Bucks because he wanted to. Check a Pistons board.

3) Corliss was a 6th man in 2002. He doesn't have it anymore (shot poorly from the floor last season and was a non factor defensively). The Pistons would have easily won without him last season. His replacement leaves much to be desired, I agree there.

And yet, this still doesn't stop Dumars from making deadline moves, which I'd say he has proven to be pretty damn good at. Not only that, but the Pistons' starting 5 is exactly the same, so I don't really see what the problem is, especially when Milicic is going to get much more PT this season, and that's never a bad thing unless you're convinced he's a flop.

Wow. I think we have our first Pistons apologist.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

They owned the Brain Busters.

Sabonis looks a little like Ax, by the way.

Bah! Nobody owned the Brain Busters; Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard were one of the greatest tag teams of all time! Although I will give Demolition credit for being one of the better power teams. I was digging their first heel run from 1987 - Nov 1988.

 

[Gargamel]

Bah! Nobody owned the Brain Busters; Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard were one of the greatest tag teams of all time! Although I will give Demolition credit for being one of the better power teams. I was digging their first heel run from 1987 - Nov 1988.

Oh, boy...Nikos is gonna have to be contained when he reads this.

The Brain Busters deserved credit for being a heady team. The move where Arn would pray for his life as Smash approached while Tully snuck up on Smash from behind was brilliant. Of course, strategy such as this was impossible without the Weasel distracting the ref. Bobby was also great at holding opponents legs from the outside while his men pummeled them. Those were the kind of management skills that set Heenan apart from others such as The Mouth of the South, Scary Sherry, and The Slickster.

In the other corner, Demolition were usually portrayed as nothing but brawlers, especially by Jesse Ventura. They may have been hell spawn from an alternate heavy metal dimension, but when you got past the warrior paint and the full spiked leather bondage suits, they had method to their madness.

 

[KA_2]

Wow. I think we have our first Pistons apologist.

Hey, why did I get edited?

 

[4cwebb]

This is an odd thread:

1) Okur sucks. Who cares if he didn't get injured a lot, he was a sorry defender and average at everything else. Oh, but he can shoot. Milicic can play, and will get many more minutes. That's a good thing, and is why Dumars didn't overpay to keep the soft oft known as Okur.

2) James was a FA, Dumars didn't have a chance to sign him. He went to the Bucks because he wanted to. Check a Pistons board.

3) Corliss was a 6th man in 2002. He doesn't have it anymore (shot poorly from the floor last season and was a non factor defensively). The Pistons would have easily won without him last season. His replacement leaves much to be desired, I agree there.

And yet, this still doesn't stop Dumars from making deadline moves, which I'd say he has proven to be pretty damn good at. Not only that, but the Pistons' starting 5 is exactly the same, so I don't really see what the problem is, especially when Milicic is going to get much more PT this season, and that's never a bad thing unless you're convinced he's a flop.

I'm pretty much on board with these thoughts. Sheed made Okur expendable, James played well, but he and Hunter were interchangeable, and Corliss, while useful, was probably a bit overpriced. I did enjoy watching him abuse Kobe on the low block in the Finals. Kings never did use him correctly once he should have gone to the bench in favor of Peja, at least in my recollection.

I think the Pistons, while they may have gotten older, have just as good a shot to win the title as they did last year. And, as a Kings fan, I'd love to be in the position to complain about the moves made by the coach and management *after* the team wins a title...

 

[Tully Blanchard]

Bah! Nobody owned the Brain Busters; Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard were one of the greatest tag teams of all time! Although I will give Demolition credit for being one of the better power teams. I was digging their first heel run from 1987 - Nov 1988.

Slim is absolutely right. Arn and Tully were tag team specialists. My all time favorites are LOD,The British Bulldogs, Hart Foundation and Midnight Express.

 

[iheartBrad]

in my opinion they had a sucky bench before and they still have a sucky bench...anything can still happen

just gotta protect the starters...and hope for the best

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm pretty much on board with these thoughts. Sheed made Okur expendable, James played well, but he and Hunter were interchangeable, and Corliss, while useful, was probably a bit overpriced. I did enjoy watching him abuse Kobe on the low block in the Finals. Kings never did use him correctly once he should have gone to the bench in favor of Peja, at least in my recollection.

I think the Pistons, while they may have gotten older, have just as good a shot to win the title as they did last year. And, as a Kings fan, I'd love to be in the position to complain about the moves made by the coach and management *after* the team wins a title...

They won the title last year. That's over.

This year they have put together a bench without a single dependable player on it. Not one. Darko MIGHT suddenly blossom. McDyess MIGHT suddenly discover the fountain of health and be able to give them a full season, or even half a season. Anything's possible. But as of right now they have got nobody that they KNOW will be a contributor. Not a single guy who you can put money on being up to playing 20mpg for 82 games. That's not much of a way to try to defend a title.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Oh, boy...Nikos is gonna have to be contained when he reads this.

The Brain Busters deserved credit for being a heady team. The move where Arn would pray for his life as Smash approached while Tully snuck up on Smash from behind was brilliant. Of course, strategy such as this was impossible without the Weasel distracting the ref. Bobby was also great at holding opponents legs from the outside while his men pummeled them. Those were the kind of management skills that set Heenan apart from others such as The Mouth of the South, Scary Sherry, and The Slickster.

In the other corner, Demolition were usually portrayed as nothing but brawlers, especially by Jesse Ventura. They may have been hell spawn from an alternate heavy metal dimension, but when you got past the warrior paint and the full spiked leather bondage suits, they had method to their madness.

Did you ever see Survivor Series '88? The 20-man tag at the opener is probably still one of my favorite matches ever. The Brain Busters were at their most entertaining in that match... The commentary was spot-on, too; Ventura and Monsoon, for my money, were one of the three greatest commentator pairings ever (the other two being Ventura/Ross from 90-93, and Monsoon/Heenan from 88-93).

In fact, 1988 was probably the "golden age" for tag team wrestling, at least in the WWF: Brain Busters, Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs, Rougeaus, Killer Bees, Strike Force, Demolition, Powers of Pain, Young Stallions, Rockers... Hell, even the Twin Towers and the Bolsheviks could be counted on to put on an adequate match.

And, oh yeah...

:: marks for Tully Blanchard ::

 

[RaY Z]

a;so forgot ronald dupree... great offensive player... but nothing else... still part of the bench...

 

[Nikos]

The commentary was spot-on, too; Ventura and Monsoon, for my money, were one of the three greatest commentator pairings ever (the other two being Ventura/Ross from 90-93, and Monsoon/Heenan from 88-93).

In fact, 1988 was probably the "golden age" for tag team wrestling, at least in the WWF: Brain Busters, Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs, Rougeaus, Killer Bees, Strike Force, Demolition, Powers of Pain, Young Stallions, Rockers... Hell, even the Twin Towers and the Bolsheviks could be counted on to put on an adequate match.

Yep . Loved wreslting in those days. Stopped watching at around 1992-93.

 

[Gargamel]

Did you ever see Survivor Series '88? The 20-man tag at the opener is probably still one of my favorite matches ever. The Brain Busters were at their most entertaining in that match... The commentary was spot-on, too; Ventura and Monsoon, for my money, were one of the three greatest commentator pairings ever (the other two being Ventura/Ross from 90-93, and Monsoon/Heenan from 88-93).

In fact, 1988 was probably the "golden age" for tag team wrestling, at least in the WWF: Brain Busters, Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs, Rougeaus, Killer Bees, Strike Force, Demolition, Powers of Pain, Young Stallions, Rockers... Hell, even the Twin Towers and the Bolsheviks could be counted on to put on an adequate match.

And, oh yeah...

:: marks for Tully Blanchard ::

I watched WWF from about 84-90 so I'm certain I've seen that SS you're talking about, but boy are the memories hazy. I remember one of the Royal Rumbles being my favorite event that they put out. Ax and Smash were the first two combatants and they stared each other down for a second before attacking. Then the third guy was Andre The Giant and they started pummeling him when he lumbered into the ring. What year was that?

Lol at the Rougeau Bros, I forgot about those sissies. McMahon was ahead of the time by exploiting our antipathies towards the French.

PS: Is it indicative of how interesting the Pistons are that we're talking about 80s wrestling?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I watched WWF from about 84-90 so I'm certain I've seen that SS you're talking about, but boy are the memories hazy. I remember one of the Royal Rumbles being my favorite event that they put out. Ax and Smash were the first two combatants and they stared each other down for a second before attacking. Then the third guy was Andre The Giant and they started pummeling him when he lumbered into the ring. What year was that?

That was the '89 Royal Rumble; it took place just after Demolition turned face. I remember that show. Wrestlemania was a very good and underrated show that year.

 

[Gargamel]

That was the '89 Royal Rumble; it took place just after Demolition turned face. I remember that show. Wrestlemania was a very good and underrated show that year.

That was a great year for WWF, a lot of characters who were hilarious (Rick Rude, Sherry, Dibiase/Virgil, etc). McMahon was finding new ways to revile the hick crowds in the Midwest. That Brother Love bit used to crack me up. I remember when he had Leapin Lanny Poffo's gay character "The Genius" on. Poffo made him an honorary genius and put a mortarboard on his head. Brother Love was beside himself and says, "Iiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!! Lllllllllllluuuuuuuvvvee!!!! Eeeeeeeewwwweee!!!" while Poffo swooned. The crowd was going insane.