Sit out Brad Miller... Ron Artest.. Mike Bibby let the young players play

TheJoker

Bench
This might sound insane but its worth the shot. IMO the Celtics are doing the samething with Paul Pierce.

Let Ron.. Bibby & Miller sit while the young guns get some experience out there on the floor especially Justin Williams and Garcia.

- It will get the young guys experience

- It will give us a better shot to get a top-pick

- We will feel better.


 
If they're here, they should be playing. Sitting them out for no real reason wouldn't do anything but create a (more?) cancerous locker room environment. Bad in general, but especially bad if you're doing it in the hopes of developing youth -- they side with their teammates and there's no hope of this coaching staff ever getting through to them.
 
There is the strong suspicion that Boston has told Pierce to take as much time as he needs to heal, take a nice vacation, maybe remodel the house...

That said, there was still an underlying injury there. It would be basically uinheard of so far as I can recall for a team to rest major players who are totally healthy midseason. Have to at the very least make up some excuses. Also quite damaging to trade values. And in general not done. If you want them to not be there, the solution is for the GM to get off his *** and make them disappear, not to actually throw games by refusing to play your players. That sort of thing might actually attract Stern's attention.
 
GoGoGadget said:
If they're here, they should be playing. Sitting them out for no real reason wouldn't do anything but create a (more?) cancerous locker room environment. Bad in general, but especially bad if you're doing it in the hopes of developing youth -- they side with their teammates and there's no hope of this coaching staff ever getting through to them.

If there here, it just makes it more worse when we loss. the talent we have is underachieving in many ways. we are better then our record shows. plus we do a favor for Ron he will go work on his new album, Miller will work to heal the injury that still seems to be bothering him and it will be easier to make a deal for Bibby while hes out.
 
This might sound insane but its worth the shot. IMO the Celtics are doing the samething with Paul Pierce.

Let Ron.. Bibby & Miller sit while the young guns get some experience out there on the floor especially Justin Williams and Garcia.

- It will get the young guys experience

- It will give us a better shot to get a top-pick

- We will feel better.



Actually we do better with the reserve group in. When Cisco, Salmons, and Corliss come in we dig ourselves out of the hole we are in. Do unless you go all the way and bring in Williams and Price, this thing would be counter productive and we'd probably win more then we are now with our starters.
 
If there here, it just makes it more worse when we loss. the talent we have is underachieving in many ways. we are better then our record shows. plus we do a favor for Ron he will go work on his new album, Miller will work to heal the injury that still seems to be bothering him and it will be easier to make a deal for Bibby while hes out.

Not by much. Or, at least, not by enough to make any kind of difference.

This season's performance/record aside, all three of these players are proven talent in the league. They should not be sitting. And, frankly, they wouldn't like to be sitting. Mike especially.

Players are neither fans, nor upper management. They see things differently than we do. Benching three proven starters just for the heck of it sends exactly the wrong message to the team, including the boys that you'd now hope to have playing their butts off for you. Not worth it.
 
Why take them out when we lose games plenty well with them playing? I do agree though that more playing time for the young guys would only be a good thing. Make Williams and Garcia and Douby and Price a regular part of the rotation and let them learn on the job. It's not 'experience' unless you're a part of it. And if we're going to lose some talent in a trade in exchange for some combination of youth, potential, salary cap room, or draft picks than now would be the perfect time to do it.
 
There is the strong suspicion that Boston has told Pierce to take as much time as he needs to heal, take a nice vacation, maybe remodel the house...

That said, there was still an underlying injury there. It would be basically uinheard of so far as I can recall for a team to rest major players who are totally healthy midseason. Have to at the very least make up some excuses. Also quite damaging to trade values. And in general not done. If you want them to not be there, the solution is for the GM to get off his *** and make them disappear, not to actually throw games by refusing to play your players. That sort of thing might actually attract Stern's attention.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe sitting out your players like that violates the rules. I'm not sure if it's true but "tanking" I believe is supposed to be banned by the NBA. Which is why when the two teams a couple of seasons ago (I believe one of them was the Clippers) they couldn't sit their starters because it would result in some form of punishment maybe they removed some balls from the lottery or something. Regardless I can't imagine that the NBA would allow that... Or else whoever has the worst record is just going to tell all their starters to go home for the last 10-15 games to lock it up.

But I don't think he meant sitting them like Boston is with Pierce. More like having the starters come off the bench, which would be a HORRIBLE idea. I mean yeah the young guns need PT. But there's nothing more embarrassing than being pulled from the starting lineup when you are the caliber of a Mike Bibby or a Ron Artest. The media would be all over it and it would just be an embarrassment to the organization (more than it already is) and to the players as well.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe sitting out your players like that violates the rules. I'm not sure if it's true but "tanking" I believe is supposed to be banned by the NBA. Which is why when the two teams a couple of seasons ago (I believe one of them was the Clippers) they couldn't sit their starters because it would result in some form of punishment maybe they removed some balls from the lottery or something. Regardless I can't imagine that the NBA would allow that... Or else whoever has the worst record is just going to tell all their starters to go home for the last 10-15 games to lock it up.

But I don't think he meant sitting them like Boston is with Pierce. More like having the starters come off the bench, which would be a HORRIBLE idea. I mean yeah the young guns need PT. But there's nothing more embarrassing than being pulled from the starting lineup when you are the caliber of a Mike Bibby or a Ron Artest. The media would be all over it and it would just be an embarrassment to the organization (more than it already is) and to the players as well.


I'd love for you to find that rule. In fact, it is perfectly within the rules since they did away with the injured list before last season. You can just declare all 3 inactive and give some b.s. about conduct detrimental to the team.
 
I'd love for you to find that rule. In fact, it is perfectly within the rules since they did away with the injured list before last season. You can just declare all 3 inactive and give some b.s. about conduct detrimental to the team.


Actualyl that would probably draw the Players' Union's ire.

In any case, clearly not worth it. That would create a giant stink ball, agents would be all over your case and steering players away, you'd get a little visit from Mr. Stern...just one of those things that is not done. As mentioned, what is done is that non-somnolent GMs make moves to make the result inevitable. Problem is our GM has been asleep for the last year and a half at least, did nothig over the summer ot fix what were obvious problems,a nd now seems either incapable or forbidden from above to do anything to speed along this process.

This team basically needs 2 trades shipping vets for kids/picks/caproom. Would do the trick, and is within the realm of reason. In a perfect world maybe 4 trades to truly clear things out. But two is something you see sometimes, and is a reasonable goal that should bear at least some fruit. Instead we get vague threats in newspaper stories, minor positioning, and hens oodling.
 
Actualyl that would probably draw the Players' Union's ire.

In any case, clearly not worth it. That would create a giant stink ball, agents would be all over your case and steering players away, you'd get a little visit from Mr. Stern...just one of those things that is not done. As mentioned, what is done is that non-somnolent GMs make moves to make the result inevitable. Problem is our GM has been asleep for the last year and a half at least, did nothig over the summer ot fix what were obvious problems,a nd now seems either incapable or forbidden from above to do anything to speed along this process.

This team basically needs 2 trades shipping vets for kids/picks/caproom. Would do the trick, and is within the realm of reason. In a perfect world maybe 4 trades to truly clear things out. But two is something you see sometimes, and is a reasonable goal that should bear at least some fruit. Instead we get vague threats in newspaper stories, minor positioning, and hens oodling.

First let me say in no way was I advocating it...I was just saying there is no actual rule.

Anyways.

I think you are far, far too harsh on Petrie. People act like moving over the hill, overpaid, and underperforming guys like Bibby and Miller is easy. And let's not even speak of guys like Kenny Thomas...that is a tougher contract to move than Webber's ever was.

NBA GMs have learned lessons from the past. They are weary to move young guys with potential or draft picks for big contracts. In the luxury tax era, they just won't do it. Look at how hard it was for the Sixers to move Allen Freaking Iverson. They couldn't get a package from Minnesota that would include Randy Foye! I like Foye's potential (a lot!), but at the time I think he was like a 5 pt 3 reb kind of guy. Allen Iverson is a former MVP who would have fit EXCEPTIONALLY well with a guy like KG (who doesn't like/need the ball, especially in crunch time). Instead the Sixers had to settle for aging contributors in Joe Smith and Andre Miller, and 2 first round picks (which won't be very good picks).

Long gone, it seems, when GMs freely deal valuable contributors like Otis Thorpe for draft picks down the road...lest those picks turn into the opportunity to draft guys like Wade and Melo (see: Pistons heist of Memphis), or the Warriors dealing Parish and McHale to the Celts for Joe Barry Carroll.


That is all a long way of saying...who the hell is going to take guys like Bibby, Miller, Kenny Thomas, etc.? Maybe someone would take Shareef because his deal is reasonable. But the other 3? Heck no. And Artest? No one really wants to take the chance. I know it's a cliche, but you need someone to AGREE to trades with you. I HIGHLY doubt that Petrie has been asleep for a year and a half, as you suggest. I just think he is saddled with an aging roster with bad contracts, and meddling, demanding owners who refuse to let him start over, insisting he make band-aid moves and even running one of the best coaches in basketball out of town for their hand-picked guy, who is pretty awful.


I mean, you could be right. I am not a fly on Petrie's wall. But knowing what I do know of the guy, and looking at our roster, our salaries, and our owners...I can't find much to blame Petrie for.
 
I think you are far, far too harsh on Petrie. People act like moving over the hill, overpaid, and underperforming guys like Bibby and Miller is easy. And let's not even speak of guys like Kenny Thomas...that is a tougher contract to move than Webber's ever was.

.

You are forgetting that both these contracts were Petrie's design. Brad there was some competition but still wasnt necessary to throw that big a deal at him , could have atleast waited for the first offer to come from another team to assess his value. If he was that good why was Indiana not going after him when they had a need for it - Petrie

Mike has one brilliant post season and a good season, but he was still not worth that mega contract. He can only plan on one end of the floor and that too relies on jump shots more than creating contacts and fouls for the team to benefit by putting the other team in fouls trouble or FT situation - Petrie

And you brought the point yourself - Trading webber for Kenny whose contract is more difficult to move - Huh, Petrie

No one said moving overpaid , over the hill guys are easy. The point is about overpaying those over the hill guys, not having an eye for talent in the late picks and not addressing the team's core problems.
 
In general, I agree with everyone that it would be unrealistic to just bench our veterans to develop our youth. However, I also think that it is in the realm of possibility if we slowly give the young guys more playing time, it will force our veterans like Bibby, Miller, Reef, and Artest to pick up their games because they will recognize that the youth makes the team weaker as a whole and they will focus on the core of their individual games. Which will in turn make them all more tradeable (providing that they do pick up their games of course).

The only way I see that happening is if Muss is "on board". And it seems apparent that he has been quite "off board" this whole time.

Anyway here is what I suggest:

Bibby: 36 min/g -----> 32 min/g
result: 4 min/g more for Ronnie Price

Artest: 37 min/g -----> 34 min/g
result: 3 more min/g for Francisco Garcia

SAR: 26 min/g -----> 22 min/g
KT: 24 min/g -----> 18 min/g
result: 10 min/g more for Justin Williams

Salmons: 28 min/g -----> 25 min/g
result: 3 more min/g for Quincy Douby


Seems fairly realistic to me, but I could be "delusional". And it would almost guarantee a top 5 draft pick.
 
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