Should Kings guards switch roles in the half court? (split from game thread)

#1
Fox is just not my cup of tea...
Kings played well. It was the LIN crowds dream.

I do wonder, and want others opinions, if the Kings would be better off with our guards changing roles in the half court. Fox is a dynamic scorer who will only get better as his shot improves. But his assist turnover ratio was sub-standard (2 assists / 5 turnovers).

It seems our point guard has a scorers mentality and our 2 guard has a lead guard mentality. So why fight who they are. Let Bogi be the primary ball handler in the half court and let Fox play the wing. They can switch back on defense.

Lastly darn, Kayte looked good in that blue dress. Lol
 
#2
I like the way the guards are currently playing. When Frank comes back that makes a guard line of Fox, Bogie, Buddy and Frank!

Fox needs the ball in his hands for the full court as the defense keys on him due to his tremendous speed. Bogie uses slight of hand and his work is better served in the half court. I love watching the Kings guards play:)
 
#3
I like the way the guards are currently playing. When Frank comes back that makes a guard line of Fox, Bogie, Buddy and Frank!

Fox needs the ball in his hands for the full court as the defense keys on him due to his tremendous speed. Bogie uses slight of hand and his work is better served in the half court. I love watching the Kings guards play:)
I agree. I think Fox and Bogi are very complementary players. But the better half court point guard at the moment is Bogi and it isn’t close. On the other hand with his ability to break down defenders and finish Fox might be our best two guard. Especially if he can hit shots like he did tonight.
 
#4
Been saying Bogie is the better point for a while now. People laughed then, but it's obvious to me and Joerger too, as the ball is in his hands for important end of game possessions. Would not even be surprised if it's long term.
 
#7
Been saying Bogie is the better point for a while now. People laughed then, but it's obvious to me and Joerger too, as the ball is in his hands for important end of game possessions. Would not even be surprised if it's long term.
Yes but it’s not just that. Offensively I think Fox is the better 2 guard. He is so quick he just can’t be stopped. Add a jump shot and my goodness...

But what makes it work so well is they can guard opposite on the other end. If Bogdan tried to play point both offense and defense the quicker points like Kyrie would kill him. Same for Fox guarding bigger stronger 2 guards.
 
#8
Yes but it’s not just that. Offensively I think Fox is the better 2 guard. He is so quick he just can’t be stopped. Add a jump shot and my goodness...

But what makes it work so well is they can guard opposite on the other end. If Bogdan tried to play point both offense and defense the quicker points like Kyrie would kill him. Same for Fox guarding bigger stronger 2 guards.
I think "point" only applies to offense
 
#11
Fox should continue to be the PG and primary playmaker. He needs to learn and develop his skills. We're going through growing pains, but this is what it takes if you want to see Fox become a franchise player. Bogdan's role is fine as secondary playmaker.
Why can’t he become a franchise player as a two guar? I seem to remember the Lakers doing well with a larger point and a smaller 2 guard in Byron Scott.
 
#12
They pretty much did. When they brought in Paul they moved Harden back to the 2 guard.

It’s funny you mention it. Moving Harden to the 2 was one of the reasons I thought about Fox at the 2. Harden is and Fox can be unstoppable.
There both PGs matter fact if you’re not building your team positionless than what are you doing.

Brad Stevens gave a great quote which is true he basically said you have wings and a big none of that position stuff. It’s why they went Brown and Tatum back to back you need to stock pile talented 6’6-6’9 guys

Both Bogdan and Fox are guards doesn’t matter who the pg is
 
#13
There both PGs matter fact if you’re not building your team positionless than what are you doing.

Brad Stevens gave a great quote which is true he basically said you have wings and a big none of that position stuff. It’s why they went Brown and Tatum back to back you need to stock pile talented 6’6-6’9 guys

Both Bogdan and Fox are guards doesn’t matter who the pg is
To be more accurate, Brad said you have ball handlers, wings and bigs. I think Fox is strongest as a wing and Bogi is strongest as a ball handler.
 
#14
Been saying Bogie is the better point for a while now. People laughed then, but it's obvious to me and Joerger too, as the ball is in his hands for important end of game possessions. Would not even be surprised if it's long term.
It’s going to be even more interesting if we draft Doncic because then Fox will be the third best playmaker on the team.
 
#15
Why can’t he become a franchise player as a two guar? I seem to remember the Lakers doing well with a larger point and a smaller 2 guard in Byron Scott.
Fox is best with the ball in his hands. He is not a SG. He doesn't even shoot 3s consistently to be a SG. He does a much better job when he has the ball and is able to create his offense.

Bogdan can play without the ball.
 
#16
It’s going to be even more interesting if we draft Doncic because then Fox will be the third best playmaker on the team.
Well fox shouldn’t and won’t stop us from drafting Doncic. I think they can all play together and off not I’d grab an athletic wing to start next too Bogdan and Doncic have Hield and Fox come off the bench.

Or even start Doncic-Bogdan-JJ that would be elite shooting with 2 great playmakers
 
#17
Well fox shouldn’t and won’t stop us from drafting Doncic. I think they can all play together and off not I’d grab an athletic wing to start next too Bogdan and Doncic have Hield and Fox come off the bench.

Or even start Doncic-Bogdan-JJ that would be elite shooting with 2 great playmakers
I think you need Fox to guard the smaller quicker guards and Fox will be the best scorer on the team.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#18
If Fox develops into a score first PG, it won't be the end of the world with the way the league is going. Especially with Bogs on the roster.

That being said. .... he's way young. It's too early to write off his potential of developing PG skills. At this point we should be thrilled with his aggression. He's come a long way this season and is only going to get better.

He was really bending Minny's defense tonight. They slowed him down in the 2nd half, but as Fox improves his shooting and passing, teams won't be able to pack the paint against him without paying one way or another.
 
#19
Fox is best with the ball in his hands. He is not a SG. He doesn't even shoot 3s consistently to be a SG. He does a much better job when he has the ball and is able to create his offense.

Bogdan can play without the ball.
I agree Fox is best penetrating and I think his shot will come. But I think the team is best when the ball is in Bogdan’s hands.
 
#20
If Fox develops into a score first PG, it won't be the end of the world with the way the league is going. Especially with Bogs on the roster.

That being said. .... he's way young. It's too early to write off his potential of developing PG skills. At this point we should be thrilled with his aggression. He's come a long way this season and is only going to get better.

He was really bending Minny's defense tonight. They slowed him down in the 2nd half, but as Fox improves his shooting and passing, teams won't be able to pack the paint against him without paying one way or another.
I agree but I think we want to avoid being Portland with two score first guards that never past the ball. Fox is fine if he is playing with Bogdan and the ball is in Bogdan’s hands 60% of the time in the half court.
 
#22
There both PGs matter fact if you’re not building your team positionless than what are you doing.

Brad Stevens gave a great quote which is true he basically said you have wings and a big none of that position stuff. It’s why they went Brown and Tatum back to back you need to stock pile talented 6’6-6’9 guys

Both Bogdan and Fox are guards doesn’t matter who the pg is
I think by now, it should be pretty clear to everyone what type of team the Kings are trying to build. The offense will be built on player and ball movement. All players need to be fundamentally sound offensively similar to the Kings in the “Golden Years”. Jackson is fundamentally sound offensively for a role player. Willie has improved his handles and passing. Giles is apparently best big passer on the roster (not that hard I am afraid).

I am not comparing Fox and Bogdanović to the following in terms overall potential but similarity of role in a system. Doug was better at creating for others than Bibby even though he was a SG on the team and Bibby was a PG.

Similarly with the Spurs, Parker was a quality scoring PG and Manu was a better at creating for others than Parker. Positions will not be relevant.

I like the fact that Fox and Bogdanović complement each other pretty darn well in tems of skill set. Fox will get better at being a PG. In two years time he will be an absolute stud. He is unlikely to ever be an assist leader in the NBA but he will be capable of averaging 6-7 assists per game which is more than enough for a scoring PG. Especially if you pair him with a SG who can run the offense and create for others but also play off the ball (just like Bogdanović).

Get another franchise level guy in this draft and the core is there to move forward with. Let them learn and develop and you have a play off team in the making in a few years time. Be smart with your FA signings and you could have a contender.
 
#23
You have to play these guys in position. If Bogie is your teams PG and primary ball handler, where does he rank in the league? Somewhere near dead last.

Put Bogie at SF and you've got a guy who can hold his own.

Put Bogie at SG and you've got a guy who has a size and strength advantage over many of his opponents.

The Kings need to start beating their opponents position by position. Until that happens, they're going to stay a lottery team because they never have an advantage over the guys they're going head to head with.
 
#24
Bogi is the better playmaker in the halfcourt right now but if this team is ever gonna be good a HUGE part of it will be if Fox develops into a top tier PG, he has the potential but its gonna come with growing pains. If Fox becomes a consistent outside shooter and decison maker and Bogi hits his shots at a better clip, two years from now they can be one of the better backcourts in the league. Both also play or can potentially play good defense.
 
#25
Just because Bogdan is the better playmaker than Fox right now doesn't make him the PG and the Fox the SG. Fox is still a PG.

Fact is a PG is defined by a lot more than playmaking these days. Speed/explosiveness, handles, dribble penetration and being able to break down a defense, and being able to defend opposing PGs. Things that Fox will or already has on Bogdan. That's why Fox is a PG and Bogdan is a playmaking wing.

Someone mentioned a Doncic-Bogdan backcourt. I think it would be an unmitigated disaster. It may check the playmaking box, but it doesn't check all the other point guard boxes. If we do wind up with Doncic, I think Bogdan moves to the bench where he can run the second unit, which lacks playmaking ability.
 
#26
This is largely an academic exercise. Basketball got along fine for 100 years with guards before there were 1 and 2 guards. You can emphasize certain things about each player, but in the end they are complimentary guards. Watching Fox and Bogdan play together gives me hope for the future. I don't care what you call it, they can play.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#27
I think as Fox improves his dribbling his passing and shooting will improve. His handle is a little loose and a little high. When he controls the ball very well and keeps the ball low when operating in tight spaces he's going to penetrate into the heart of defenses and wreak havoc with both passing and shooting. Also, he won't get the ball stolen as much as he has in this his rookie year.
 
#29
You have to play these guys in position. If Bogie is your teams PG and primary ball handler, where does he rank in the league? Somewhere near dead last.

Put Bogie at SF and you've got a guy who can hold his own.

Put Bogie at SG and you've got a guy who has a size and strength advantage over many of his opponents.

The Kings need to start beating their opponents position by position. Until that happens, they're going to stay a lottery team because they never have an advantage over the guys they're going head to head with.
Just because Bogie is the primary ball handler doesn’t mean the other team would match up different defensively.

Bogie already looks to post up and would destroy smaller point guards. Fox can already blow by faster points today and would do the same in spades to a larger guard.

The question really is who is better initiating the offense and being your primary ball handler in the half court. It doesn’t by rule have to be the smallest quickest guy. Boston did quite well with Smart as the primary ball handler of their second group and playing Rozier off the ball.
 
#30
Just because Bogie is the primary ball handler doesn’t mean the other team would match up different defensively.

Bogie already looks to post up and would destroy smaller point guards. Fox can already blow by faster points today and would do the same in spades to a larger guard.

The question really is who is better initiating the offense and being your primary ball handler in the half court. It doesn’t by rule have to be the smallest quickest guy. Boston did quite well with Smart as the primary ball handler of their second group and playing Rozier off the ball.
There are a few reasons why I don't want this to happen right now. One is because Fox needs to develop as a PG. Bogie running the point right now might make the Kings better this year but that doesn't help with Fox's development by taking possessions away from him. Bogie is a good running mate because he can take the pressure off of Fox on a bunch of possessions but you don't want to just make Fox play shooting guard when shooting is his weakness right now. We need this guy to be able to learn how to play the point or else he is a waste of a pick.

Two, Bogie isn't a good enough ball handler to be a primary ball handler. He's a good secondary handler but you're going to be a sub .500 team if he's your primary guy. He looks so good right now because everyone else on the team is so bad at running the point.