Shareef to have a breakthrough season?

#1
I know a lot of people are hard on him because of his history of being on losing teams, but I really think he can contribute to the Kings this season. Now that Bonzi is gone he should definitely get more touches. If anybody knows his game he demands a certain amount of touches and he likes to take his time to create his shot... but he proved to be effective when he tore up the Spurs in game 2 of last seasons playoffs. If given the right minutes and touches I can see him putting up 18/8 and really helping this team. What do you guys think?
 
#2
I would love if that happened but i just don't see it. Bibby and Artest will get more touches and Brad and Martain could too. And also add there is a good chance shareef might come off the bench makes it least likely. Sar could still get 20 and 7 but i don't think he could do it when he is not a 1st, 2nd or even 3rd opinition. If he was on a team like the bulls where he would be the number one post treat and had a cover like Big Ben he would be more capable of getting his old numbers or close to it.
 
#3
I could see it. Musselman talked about Brad's perimeter shooting in a recent interview, which means we are going to need someone to handle the ball down low. Before his injury last year he boasted a league-leading +54% from the floor. Ideally you want to give a player as many touches as they can handle while maintaining that high shooting percentage. I wouldn't mind seeing Reef get some more touches and take the load off of Bibby so he can save his energy for defense and dribble penetration.
 
#6
SAR was killing the Spurs inside by himself until they shut him down with the double teams. If he didn't get injured last season he would have gotten a lot more regard.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#7
I know a lot of people are hard on him because of his history of being on losing teams, but I really think he can contribute to the Kings this season. Now that Bonzi is gone he should definitely get more touches. If anybody knows his game he demands a certain amount of touches and he likes to take his time to create his shot... but he proved to be effective when he tore up the Spurs in game 2 of last seasons playoffs. If given the right minutes and touches I can see him putting up 18/8 and really helping this team. What do you guys think?
a) 18 and 8 isn't really a breakthrough season for a guy who once mattered in the league, or at least, had people fooled into thinking he did. Nor actually has SAR at 18 and 8 ever really done much to help anybody. Certainly beats 12 and 5 though.

b) Bonzi being gone doesn't do much for Shareef as in place of Peja and Bonzi, we now have Ron and Kevin, who both need at least as many shots (Ron being less efficient than Peja, and Kevin being primarily an offensive player).

c) there is still the Kenny Thomas factor. Only three options: 1) Kenny steals many of SARs minutes, limiting any SAR stat stuffing; b) we are once again subjected to the horror of Kenny at PF and SAR at center, not a role he exactly excelled at; or c) Kenny is limited to 16mpg in which case he will become a full blown cancer inside of a month.

It is certainly possible that Reef could have a better season -- indeed if he does not it gets a bit scary because it means we signed a guy on the downward slide. But EVERYBODY can't have a better season -- there are, and here we are again, simply not enough shots. So if Reef is goign to score 18, you know what? Kevin is not. If Ron is going to score 22, then neither Kevin nor Reef is going to be up there, something's got to give. And while somebody figures to have a better year, statistically at least, whether that somebody turns out to be SAR or not is unknown. And whichever guys do have better seasons are almost inevitably going to result in somebody else being shoved into the background. We just lost our only garbage scorer to Houston. Apart from Kevin maybe getting the occasional cheapie on the break, there are a whole bunch of people who need the ball to score, and no way for it to work for all of them. Only one ball.
 
#8
It'll be interesting to see how the SAR - KT thing plays out with Musselman in charge. I would like to see SAR starting if he can get closer to his rebound average.
 
#9
I don't particularly care about SAR's numbers. The real question is how does the team as a whole do when SAR is on the floor.

The great thing about SAR is that he is a genuine threat. He will hurt teams that don't show him proper respect or he will draw defensive resources making things easier for the others.

SAR was like 90% within 6 ft of the hoop at the end of last season. He could have been the star of the Spurs series had he figured out how to beat the doubles they put on him after a while. The energy the Spurs put into him surely helped out Bonzi (although Bonzi was amazing on his own).
 
#11
It is certainly possible that Reef could have a better season -- indeed if he does not it gets a bit scary because it means we signed a guy on the downward slide. But EVERYBODY can't have a better season -- there are, and here we are again, simply not enough shots. So if Reef is goign to score 18, you know what? Kevin is not. If Ron is going to score 22, then neither Kevin nor Reef is going to be up there, something's got to give. And while somebody figures to have a better year, statistically at least, whether that somebody turns out to be SAR or not is unknown. And whichever guys do have better seasons are almost inevitably going to result in somebody else being shoved into the background. We just lost our only garbage scorer to Houston. Apart from Kevin maybe getting the occasional cheapie on the break, there are a whole bunch of people who need the ball to score, and no way for it to work for all of them. Only one ball.
I think you bring up a good point here...when Webb and Peja were on the team, people used to say that there weren't enough balls to go around. But at least those guys were clearly the 1 and 2 options and everyone else fell in place. With this current team, it's hard to say who really deserves the ball in his hands (even Ron who is supposedly the star of the team is inefficient offensively). I think it wouldn't be impossible to see situations in which th lack of a primary scoring option will really hurt the Kings and - moreover - situations in which certain players will feel like they desere more touches. If anything, with this current roster, there are even more arms reaching for the one ball.
 
#12
Ron was inefficient largely due to his lack of conditioning when he joined the team and it takes a while to get in game shape. Also as team chemistry improves, his tendency to take stupid shots should decline.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#13
Ron was inefficient largely due to his lack of conditioning when he joined the team and it takes a while to get in game shape. Also as team chemistry improves, his tendency to take stupid shots should decline.
We'll have to see -- last year was a little extreme, but Ron has never been efficient fofensively. But you know what? Efficiency is overrated sometimes. Ron at his best is forceful, a tough matchup, and gets people in foul trouble. Even without efficiency he desrves a lot of shots.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#15
SAR was killing the Spurs inside by himself until they shut him down with the double teams. If he didn't get injured last season he would have gotten a lot more regard.

the double team worked because brad and bibbys perimeter shooting was off to say the least in the playoffs. SAR with some good perimeter shooting to back him up and Ron driving to the hoop could lead to some open looks in the paint for SAR. I would say IF he starts he would average a good 12-16 shots a night shooting at a 50% clip probably on the lines of 14-18 ppg. Sure some nights he will only get 8 shots or so and some he may be up in the 20 range all depends on whats working. With Muss wanting to be more up tempo more shots could become available because of that. Last year we averaged 79 shots per game i am looking to be in the 85-90 range.
 
#16
I would like to see them playing SAR down low this year. I don't think it will be a breakout year, but he will play his "role" with this team better than he did last year.
Look for something like a 16-8-2 as a starter, and 12-6-1 as a reserve.

Brad on the other hand I hope sticks to the game he knows best. His mid-range jumper, and rebounding like he did when Vlade was running the high post. I really think Brad is a better rebounder than his numbers were last year. Hist first year when Vlade was running the team he was putting up some good rebounding numbers (10 a game). Since I don't see Brad running the team liek the last two years look for him to snag somewhere near 8-9 rebounds a game.

As for Artest you will see his assist numbers go up. I think Muss will use him as a point forward at times, and exploit him going low with the ball and either passing to Martin/Bibby outside, SAR down low near the basket, or Miller mid range.

Martin will benefit the most, scoring wise. He probally wont be asked to handle the ball much, and will be used in a shooting role. Look for his shots to go up along with his points. Rebounding as well, but not by much. Somewhere around 4-4.5 a game.

Bibby will get more assists, and will be the floor general. This is something he has not had to do in some time. Look for him to be uncomfortable at the start of the year with his new role, and maybe struggle a bit. His shooting will be fine, but the team as a whole will commit more than the usual amount of turnovers until they get used to the new offense. On the other hand if you have Brad at the mid range, and Bibby running the high post you might see better play from the team. Bibby's assists should be somewhere around 7-8.5 this year with about 18ppg, and 3rpg.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#17
Last year we averaged 79 shots per game i am looking to be in the 85-90 range.
Last year the Suns averaged 87. The #2 scoring team in the league was Seattle. They averaged 81. Unless we out D'Antoni D'Antoni -- rather unlikely -- I see no way we hit 85, let alone 90.
 
#19
I just think if we give Reef the ball a little more we'll get way more out of him... he's a high percentage player. I think our offense will work better and more smoothly too. All our guards are capable of hitting 3s and Brad loves his 15 footers so it just makes so much sense to have him go to work down low and having the aforementioned options available. There were many times this season when it seemed like his role on the team wasn't very clear and it seemed like he was underutilized... I hope this season that changes.
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#20
Last year the Suns averaged 87. The #2 scoring team in the league was Seattle. They averaged 81. Unless we out D'Antoni D'Antoni -- rather unlikely -- I see no way we hit 85, let alone 90.
???????WTF are you talking about. We averaged 79 attempts last season with more more half court sets. yet you se NO WAY we get 6 more attempts????
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Staff member
#21
???????WTF are you talking about. We averaged 79 attempts last season with more more half court sets. yet you se NO WAY we get 6 more attempts????
Anything is possible, but I just gave you the numbers and reasons why its highly unlikley. Sorry the facts don't fit your preestablished worldview. I suspect we'll get a few more a game, but if you wanted to get up to 90 Rick was actually the better bet -- he was close with us those first couple of years before we got serious and started playing defense.

Now Muss in his two years in Golden State uptempoed quite a bit. But people somehow forget that the guy he is replacing has long been one of the most uptempo/successful offensive coaches in the league and only got 79 or whatever out of a very similar roster last year. Muss's two-year totals in G.S. were Yr 1: a quite high 84.6, and Yr2: 79.4, right where we were this year. Of course that first year came at a cost --they were uptempo, but at the same time the cost was they were completely atrocious defensively allowing 103.6ppg. People claim Muss is now a defensive minded coach. But if he is, it started in Yr 2 when his team averaged all of 93.3ppg, and part of it was taking the foot off the accelerator a bit. If that focus is maintained, its not going to be as part of a Phoenix gun without a conscience approach. ANY team can run n gun like Phoenix (Paul Westhead proved that conclusively back in the early 90s with Denver), but very few can do it and actually win in the process.
 
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#22
I just think if we give Reef the ball a little more we'll get way more out of him... he's a high percentage player. I think our offense will work better and more smoothly too. All our guards are capable of hitting 3s and Brad loves his 15 footers so it just makes so much sense to have him go to work down low and having the aforementioned options available. There were many times this season when it seemed like his role on the team wasn't very clear and it seemed like he was underutilized... I hope this season that changes.
I completely agree
 
#23
Well....I must say that I agree with the previous two posts. With the absence of Bonzi our Kings will be in dire need of someone capable of replacing BW post presence. How easily people forget what Reef brought to our team last year: he was top 2 in the league in shooting % and averaging 17 points prior to breaking his jaw. While these stat are not mind boggling (especially his subpar rebounding -- which will improve assuming 100% health) they are very nice considering he took a measily 10.5 shots per game. Unfortunately for Reef, people assume the Kings were better off with him out of the starting 5 because during his recovery Sacramento managed to string together some victories and established a winning attitude.
I admit that KT's ability will undoubtedly strengthen our team, though IMO his skill set is be best utilized off the bench. I only pray he can mentally accept this and not become a little girl ala 2005-2006. Many will point to last year and say that KT was a better fit for our system. That may or may not be true. I believe that Artest was the differnce-maker and either KT or Reef would have succeeded once we added a shut-down defender.
However, the point is that without Bonzi and his points in the paint, we need someone to assume his mantle. And while KT is a nice player, Reef is without question the better inside player. And now that he is fully recovered and back to power forward weight, he is the rational choice to start for the Kings. All we need is for Kenny to have matured some and do what is best for the Kings. If Reef continues to fail in rebounding the ball then we can re-visit this question. But IMO Shareef Abdur-Rahim should start. And if he wins the job it is not inconceivable that he gets 14 shots and as a result gets 16-19 points. He is after all the Kings most efficient player and as we have seen from last year, puts the team first. Here is hoping that he rebounds from a poor second half last year and helps lead our team into the playoffs once again.

P.S. Sorry if I went off on a tangent.....I am simply looking forward to a great season. GOOOOO KIIINNNNGGGGSSS.
 
#24
Reef is a much better player than KT. KT is just a banger who can pull some boards here and there and get tip ins. Reef is an All-Star caliber player who is only getting older so his skills should be utilized now.
 
#25
I agree that Reef is a far more skilled player that KT. However, last year KT and his energy when starting often provided the Kings with a lift they needed. Sacramento did not nencessarily need Rahims soft touch in the paint last year once Artest was acquired. They will, however, need all of SAR scoring ability and man defense this year. And lets not act as though Reef is a willy vet who get by on his experience alone. He is 29 years old which most consider the prime of an athletes career. If given 17+ shots per game Reef could easily reach 20+ points.
 
#26
I agree that Reef is a far more skilled player that KT. However, last year KT and his energy when starting often provided the Kings with a lift they needed. Sacramento did not nencessarily need Rahims soft touch in the paint last year once Artest was acquired. They will, however, need all of SAR scoring ability and man defense this year. And lets not act as though Reef is a willy vet who get by on his experience alone. He is 29 years old which most consider the prime of an athletes career. If given 17+ shots per game Reef could easily reach 20+ points.
I totally agree that given 17 shots per game that he could avg 20+ points he is almost automatic, him only getting 11 shots per game when shooting 50% is one thing that got me angry last season. But like Brick said, who would have to take less shots and will they be happy with it? Will shareef start? How will the new coach use him? What will be the new system? will there be a new system? there are many questions.
 
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#27
Although Kevin Martin and Ron Artest are both assets to the team it would pee me off when they would take all the shots at the expense of SAR being limited to like less 5 or 6 shots a game. I don't remember ever looking at the stat sheet and ever seeing him take more than 8 shots a game. He's an offensive weapon we need to use and if we want to make some noise next season we're gonna need his offensive prowess to help us along the way.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#28
Although Kevin Martin and Ron Artest are both assets to the team it would pee me off when they would take all the shots at the expense of SAR being limited to like less 5 or 6 shots a game. I don't remember ever looking at the stat sheet and ever seeing him take more than 8 shots a game. He's an offensive weapon we need to use and if we want to make some noise next season we're gonna need his offensive prowess to help us along the way.
??????

You know, I must be missing more than I thought when I'm doing the PBP. Care to give some examples of when those ballhogs Artest and Martin kept SAR from shooting?
 
#29
I must say that I agree with VF21 on this occasion. While Artest, Bibby and Martin to a lesser degree would often take ill-advised jumpshots outside of the offence, it was Reef's passive nature which more often than not would lead to his not taking a large number of shots. Often times last year Reef would hurt the team by trying to fit in too much (if that makes any sense). By trying to fit into the system and not create any waves (because there was only one ball on a team of scorers) Reef would pass up scoring opportunities which ultimately hurt the team. He needs to realize that among his teammates, he is the only one to average 20 points not once, but 7 times. For the Kings to be very successful this season they absolutely must get maximum production from Reef. Not saying he must be the focal point of their offense and score 20+ points; however, he is our teams most gifted post scorer (in fact one of the 10-12 most efficient post-scorers in the entire league IMO) and an asset which must be unleashed.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#30
I must say that I agree with VF21 on this occasion.
Good grief!

You can't agree with me. It might create a rift in the space-time continuum that could signal the end of the universe as we know it.

:p

Seriously? I expect to see Shareef being a lot more productive this year. For one thing, he's not trying to recover on the fly from a broken jaw.