Sasha or Lyles
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
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Too many what if's and we have to see the playoffs but right now Sasha. Lyles has been playing great post all star and solid all year but is he enough? And do not forget contract years do matter. We find all that out in the playoffs. And I do think there could be a possibility of both being in the picture, imagine if Monte could put out a package of something around Keegan, Davion, and picks around draft night or FA and get a legit 3rd all star? Then bringing back Lyles, Barnes, and Sasha over while also having the MLE to spend? That's how you not only possibly build a contender but one that won't fade like the last few Western conference runner ups. Lyles has his hot streaks from behind the line and he's currently on one for sure but Sasha has wing level shooting ability.
I think we have to re-sign Lyles. And we better make a quality offer to Sasha.
Biggest question mark to me is will Barnes re-sign. We might be able to get Lyles and Sasha for the price of Barnes, in the event that we are going to lose him I do wonder if we can do a S&T, even if it's dead money coming back that money will be important as long as Vivek is willing to spend over the cap to keep the team competitive.
Biggest question mark to me is will Barnes re-sign. We might be able to get Lyles and Sasha for the price of Barnes, in the event that we are going to lose him I do wonder if we can do a S&T, even if it's dead money coming back that money will be important as long as Vivek is willing to spend over the cap to keep the team competitive.
there are basically no contenders that have cap space. The only threats to the Kings for Barnes are Minny ( would have to not re-sign Naz and that situation is not better than Sac) Indy (they could make a leap next year but enough to chose over sac?) and Cleveland ( would have to renounce Caris Levert). Cleveland is the closest to a title contender but does he want to uproot his family from the West coast?
This could be an important bit of information
“For players on smaller salaries, the maximum teams can pay with early Early Bird Rights is based on the estimated average salary (a figure the NBA provides ahead of July free agency). For the 2022-23 season, players with Early Bird Rights could sign for the higher of 10.8 million or 175 percent of their previous salary.”
“For players on smaller salaries, the maximum teams can pay with early Early Bird Rights is based on the estimated average salary (a figure the NBA provides ahead of July free agency). For the 2022-23 season, players with Early Bird Rights could sign for the higher of 10.8 million or 175 percent of their previous salary.”
Sasha.
I think he will be a better player and may possibly emerge as the best forward on the roster. That’s how much I like his game, his quick release and another aspect nobody talks about is his passing. All of that next to Domas and how the Kings play…it would be pretty silly to pass on it because a career 7-10 range reserve(all due respect) happens to be playing their best career ball in a contract year.
I like Trey but the Kings still have an awful lot of room for improvement and it will need to happen somewhere on the roster in the top 9. Seems likely Barnes will be brought back so I think they’ll replace Trey with Sasha.
I also predict Trey will continue to play at the level he has played this month and I said in last nights game thread that I have a feeling he will have a good postseason. Which means he might command pretty healthy offers as a free agent.
Kings need to be careful not to checkmate their roster long term by thinking every active participant on the first winning team in nearly two decades needs to be retained.
Thankfully Monte proved by moving Tyrese that he isn’t the sentimental type In that regard and will make the right moves. Bringing over Sasha and parting ways with Trey will prove to be one of those moves.
But hey, if he doesn’t bring Sasha over and Trey is kept…then I’ll likely trust the evaluation that led to that decision. I think they want Sasha though.
I think he will be a better player and may possibly emerge as the best forward on the roster. That’s how much I like his game, his quick release and another aspect nobody talks about is his passing. All of that next to Domas and how the Kings play…it would be pretty silly to pass on it because a career 7-10 range reserve(all due respect) happens to be playing their best career ball in a contract year.
I like Trey but the Kings still have an awful lot of room for improvement and it will need to happen somewhere on the roster in the top 9. Seems likely Barnes will be brought back so I think they’ll replace Trey with Sasha.
I also predict Trey will continue to play at the level he has played this month and I said in last nights game thread that I have a feeling he will have a good postseason. Which means he might command pretty healthy offers as a free agent.
Kings need to be careful not to checkmate their roster long term by thinking every active participant on the first winning team in nearly two decades needs to be retained.
Thankfully Monte proved by moving Tyrese that he isn’t the sentimental type In that regard and will make the right moves. Bringing over Sasha and parting ways with Trey will prove to be one of those moves.
But hey, if he doesn’t bring Sasha over and Trey is kept…then I’ll likely trust the evaluation that led to that decision. I think they want Sasha though.
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I don't know why he'd want to leave but prior to this season I think there were clear indications he was ready to move on. Obviously things are different now.
IIRC we are early bird with Lyles, not full bird. But I think we can still offer in that 9-10 range. Especially if a few of our other expirings move on. Sasha should take whatever MLE we can offer. I would say big thing would be not using BAE which would hard cap us at the apron and I think we can't afford that if we are looking to move Holmes at some point. I think IF Vivek is ready to spend the goal should be transitioning to operating above the cap so that we can continuously look to upgrade talent as contracts near their expiration dates. Of course we better be winning trophies to make it worthwhile.
IIRC we are early bird with Lyles, not full bird. But I think we can still offer in that 9-10 range. Especially if a few of our other expirings move on. Sasha should take whatever MLE we can offer. I would say big thing would be not using BAE which would hard cap us at the apron and I think we can't afford that if we are looking to move Holmes at some point. I think IF Vivek is ready to spend the goal should be transitioning to operating above the cap so that we can continuously look to upgrade talent as contracts near their expiration dates. Of course we better be winning trophies to make it worthwhile.
I wouldn’t expect him to overtake either of them as a starter next season, but I think it’s possible. He’s not a kid. He’s in his prime at the moment so it’s about adjustments, not development.
There will be some adjustment and there will be a climb for him based on where he starts in the rotation(likely in Trey’s spot) but I think he’ll be who he is pretty quick. There is already some nights where Trey is the better option, so it’s not that far fetched. Especially considering Keegan is still a developing player.
I think he can be the best scoring, rebounding and passing forward on the team next season yes. Keegan isn’t a finished product and hopefully is the best forward long term but I think it’s pretty clear now that I really like Sasha’s game.
There will be some adjustment and there will be a climb for him based on where he starts in the rotation(likely in Trey’s spot) but I think he’ll be who he is pretty quick. There is already some nights where Trey is the better option, so it’s not that far fetched. Especially considering Keegan is still a developing player.
I think he can be the best scoring, rebounding and passing forward on the team next season yes. Keegan isn’t a finished product and hopefully is the best forward long term but I think it’s pretty clear now that I really like Sasha’s game.
And then you're dangerously close to possibly re-signing someone to play a potential bench role and potentially re-creating JT/Holmes all over again if they slip down the rotation and right now, Lyles' minutes are directly tied to Murray getting bumped from game to game. The playoffs decide. I don't recall people thinking Bonzi was a total can't let go player until that playoff showing but the same goes the other way too. Take this same poll about TD a few weeks back and I'd bet you get completely different results than today. So goes the issue with players towards that 8-9 position on the depth chart. They are role guys.
the difference is Lyles wins us games. His advanced stats are starter quality and he has been the most consistent bench player on the team.
I do think we have to choose the 4 most impactful pieces out of Monk, TD, Lyles, Sasha, Davion and potentially Kessler. we can’t sign all of them to long term deals. We have time on a couple of those guys but big decisions will need to be made
I do think we have to choose the 4 most impactful pieces out of Monk, TD, Lyles, Sasha, Davion and potentially Kessler. we can’t sign all of them to long term deals. We have time on a couple of those guys but big decisions will need to be made
As someone who's followed Sasha's career overseas, my answer would 100% be Lyles, and just barely. Lyles has been such an integral part of the team's success. Put Holmes or Quiet instead of Lyles for any of our games and I think we'd lose at least 4-5 of them. His contribution off the bench and dependabilty has been crucial for the team.
However, we've got to find a way to get both players on the roster. Sasha's elite shooting and basketball IQ would enrich the entire team even more.
However, we've got to find a way to get both players on the roster. Sasha's elite shooting and basketball IQ would enrich the entire team even more.
I'd take Lyles in a heartbeat. I think Vezenkov's release is so quick that his outside shot will translate to the NBA. And he's highly effective as a cutter as well. So he'd fit in this Kings offense very well.
But I think he's going to really struggle to defend NBA players. It also remains to be seen if he can be as effective coming off the bench. Some guys struggle to adapt to a significantly smaller role.
Lyles has really come into his own this season, and he does a lot of things well. But what I really like is the few occasions that Brown has used him as a small ball five. That's not something I can see Sasha doing, and for the Kings it unlocks a whole different bench approach when needed.
But I think he's going to really struggle to defend NBA players. It also remains to be seen if he can be as effective coming off the bench. Some guys struggle to adapt to a significantly smaller role.
Lyles has really come into his own this season, and he does a lot of things well. But what I really like is the few occasions that Brown has used him as a small ball five. That's not something I can see Sasha doing, and for the Kings it unlocks a whole different bench approach when needed.
If Vivek will spend you want to just sign these guys to market rate deals (or below if possible) so that Monte can move them when time is right. Monte got it right I think with Bogi, but maybe because he took so much heat for that wound up giving Holmes a deal that when his play dipped has rendered him unmovable. Ideally though you keep these assets and ship them rather than let guys walk. Big thing is right now we have guys that can walk.
The two biggest question marks going into the offseason are going to be Barnes and Keegan. I think everyone is pretty much in the agreement that if Barnes walks, we'll hold no ill-will towards him because he's been a loyal player who's at the end of his prime. However, what he brings to our team is extremely important. He's our starting SF who handles the opposing team's best wing each night. He's also only one of two players on the team who can consistently create their own shot. Those two things are really valuable. We're a better team with Barnes but if he decides to leave, it'll be 100% up to Keegan to fill in his shoes. Keegan would need to make a considerable jump in his game. I don't know that he can put it all together in his 2nd year. We've seen him "expanding" his game lately, but that mostly just consists of 1 new move each game that we didn't see before.
Scenario A) But in a perfect world where Keegan suddenly becomes an on-ball 18ppg scorer as our 3rd option in his 2nd year and Barnes leaves in FA, I would move Keegan to Barnes' spot and Sasha to Keegan's current spot as the starting F. I would only be giving Sasha around 20-25mpg and having Lyles come off the bench with around 25mpg. I'd also close out games with Lyles instead of Sasha. I think Lyles brings more to the table at the end of games. Sasha is mostly his 3pt shooting.
Scenario B) However, if we go into next year with Barnes, Lyles, AND Sasha, I'd probably have Sasha be part of our early bench sub and bring him in for Keegan. Maybe at the half-way mark of the 1st quarter, we'll get the lineup of: Mitchell, Huerter, Barnes, Sasha, and Sabonis. Then off the bench it'll be: Mitchell, Monk, Sasha, Metu, and Lyles. But I'd sub Sasha out early for Edwards. I see him getting around 15mpg if this scenario.
Glad I'm not the coach. Now I see why Brown constantly experiments with different lineups and players. Each player brings in something different, but you also have to consider the matchup on the other side too.
Scenario A) But in a perfect world where Keegan suddenly becomes an on-ball 18ppg scorer as our 3rd option in his 2nd year and Barnes leaves in FA, I would move Keegan to Barnes' spot and Sasha to Keegan's current spot as the starting F. I would only be giving Sasha around 20-25mpg and having Lyles come off the bench with around 25mpg. I'd also close out games with Lyles instead of Sasha. I think Lyles brings more to the table at the end of games. Sasha is mostly his 3pt shooting.
Scenario B) However, if we go into next year with Barnes, Lyles, AND Sasha, I'd probably have Sasha be part of our early bench sub and bring him in for Keegan. Maybe at the half-way mark of the 1st quarter, we'll get the lineup of: Mitchell, Huerter, Barnes, Sasha, and Sabonis. Then off the bench it'll be: Mitchell, Monk, Sasha, Metu, and Lyles. But I'd sub Sasha out early for Edwards. I see him getting around 15mpg if this scenario.
Glad I'm not the coach. Now I see why Brown constantly experiments with different lineups and players. Each player brings in something different, but you also have to consider the matchup on the other side too.
The easiest answer is you say "**** defense", move Lyles to back-up 4 and 5 and improve on one of the best offensive teams ever.
I also really think we take a close look at what Kessler is and you potentially have another your defensive bridge wing to make all these offensive pieces work together.
Fox || Davion
Huerter || Monk
Keegan || Edwards
Barnes || Sasha
Sabonis || Lyles
Just as basic positions/back-ups. But I think you have real versatility where a lot of these guys can interchangeably play together. Kessler can obviously defend 2-4, Huerter can go 2/3, Keegan 3/4, Barnes 3/4, Sasha (hopefully) 3/4, Lyles 4/5; if Brown would ever unleash him at C. I'm convinced Monk and Davion can both go 1/2 as well both offensively and defensively.
But with Kessler on the cheap option next season, hopefully we figure out if he's a guy we can pencil in the rotation for next season. If that ends up being the case, you just resign Lyles and save that Sasha money for the eventual Edwards extension the following year.
I also really think we take a close look at what Kessler is and you potentially have another your defensive bridge wing to make all these offensive pieces work together.
Fox || Davion
Huerter || Monk
Keegan || Edwards
Barnes || Sasha
Sabonis || Lyles
Just as basic positions/back-ups. But I think you have real versatility where a lot of these guys can interchangeably play together. Kessler can obviously defend 2-4, Huerter can go 2/3, Keegan 3/4, Barnes 3/4, Sasha (hopefully) 3/4, Lyles 4/5; if Brown would ever unleash him at C. I'm convinced Monk and Davion can both go 1/2 as well both offensively and defensively.
But with Kessler on the cheap option next season, hopefully we figure out if he's a guy we can pencil in the rotation for next season. If that ends up being the case, you just resign Lyles and save that Sasha money for the eventual Edwards extension the following year.
Lyles. Proven production, roster fit and plays well within our defensive system. I don’t think anyone is going to break the bank for him, though. 7-10 mil/year should do it. I don’t think he’s a great fit next to Sabonis and I don’t think other teams will pay big bucks for him as a starter. He’s good - but not a shot creator for others or a true rim protector.
And I really want to see Sasha in a King’s uni.
There are going to be some tough calls for the Kings this off-season. Lyles isn’t one of them.
And I really want to see Sasha in a King’s uni.
There are going to be some tough calls for the Kings this off-season. Lyles isn’t one of them.
Lyles pre all-star break:
15.9 mpg, 7.2 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 46.8 FG%, 36.4 3P%, 61.4% TS%
Lyles post all-star break:
20.2 mpg, 12.2 ppg, 5.4rpg, 58.1 FG%, 43.2 3P%, 73.6% TS%
He's been getting better all season. And while I was never "please no more Lyles", I was definitely thinking he wasn't a priority to bring back next year. But if he can keep playing at this level I think you have to re-sign him if possible.
15.9 mpg, 7.2 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 46.8 FG%, 36.4 3P%, 61.4% TS%
Lyles post all-star break:
20.2 mpg, 12.2 ppg, 5.4rpg, 58.1 FG%, 43.2 3P%, 73.6% TS%
He's been getting better all season. And while I was never "please no more Lyles", I was definitely thinking he wasn't a priority to bring back next year. But if he can keep playing at this level I think you have to re-sign him if possible.
Also, are we sure Barnes is a must-resign? Heading into his age 31 season?
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm...rfrom=2023&player_id2=barneha02&p2yrfrom=2023
Lyles statistically has basically been the same player off the bench. Worse at drawing FT's, much better rebounder. I think we can pretty much bank that Lyles has really figured something out in a Kings uniform. And still just 27, this next contract basically will be inking his prime years, while Barnes is far more likely to see a decline over the duration of his next deal. The obvious caveat being the minutes discrepancy and if Lyles can sustain his level of play with a higher minutes role.
Still, Lyles stat profile this year would be a pop for me if he were on another team as an underrated asset that needed more playing time.
Not sure if the cap would play out this way but if it were Barnes+1 of Sasha or Lyles or Sasha+Lyles+Something else? Mostly just thinking out loud here.
https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm...rfrom=2023&player_id2=barneha02&p2yrfrom=2023
Lyles statistically has basically been the same player off the bench. Worse at drawing FT's, much better rebounder. I think we can pretty much bank that Lyles has really figured something out in a Kings uniform. And still just 27, this next contract basically will be inking his prime years, while Barnes is far more likely to see a decline over the duration of his next deal. The obvious caveat being the minutes discrepancy and if Lyles can sustain his level of play with a higher minutes role.
Still, Lyles stat profile this year would be a pop for me if he were on another team as an underrated asset that needed more playing time.
Not sure if the cap would play out this way but if it were Barnes+1 of Sasha or Lyles or Sasha+Lyles+Something else? Mostly just thinking out loud here.