Rebounds

#3
You have to consider all aspects of the bigs when talking about playing time. I get that it seems like if we play Giles more that the rebounding improves but his defense in some areas is not as good as WCS. I like all 3 of the bigs. Bags still makes some rookie mistakes on where to be.....I get it, the 2 rookies are going to be better but I just don’t think we can turn it over to them at this point.

No doubt that Joerger is mixing all of them in now......and that is a good thing.
 
#4
Rebounding is not glamarous, but I really like it. It is mental exercise as much as a physical one. You have to get mean and want the ball more than the other guy. The techniques are not that hard to learn. This team still makes some fundamental mistakes in their defensive rebounding every game. They are lazy about boxing people out and give up too many offensive boards.

I agree with the Hammer about 5 defensive boards a game. That is an attainable goal and deserves a high priority. Most people pay little attention to rebounding. Few responses on this thread considering that it is a key to the Kings success going forward.
 
#5
I’m to lazy nor care enough to research this but within the last few years.....Are guards getting more rebounds than previous era? And I don’t just mean a Russell Westbrook but overall in the league, are guards rebounding more?
 
#7
what I think is many of them rarely take a look where the player they are guarding on the court when a shot goes up. They just stand near the Basket and occupy a space, but not boxing out.
A lot of the offensive rebounds the Kings give up are from perimeter players crashing the boards. Guys outside the paint usually don't think about boxing out, but they need to put a body on someone. Case in point, Bogie didn't box out Oubre at the end of the Suns' game and it completely changed their final possession.
 
#8
I’m to lazy nor care enough to research this but within the last few years.....Are guards getting more rebounds than previous era? And I don’t just mean a Russell Westbrook but overall in the league, are guards rebounding more?
Absolutely. The prominence of the 3 ball creates many more long rebounds out to the back court.
Many teams play an open middle which also allows guards more access to rebounds. In today's NBA guards need to be able to rebound. Buddy and Fox are great rebounders. Bogdan is pretty good at it.
 
#9
When I used to check the Duke box scores last year I remember salivating over Bagley's amazing rebounding numbers. He's the one guy who can make a HUGE difference. Giles, with his injury history and limited NBA experience to date is a small mystery. It's hard to tell just yet what he can bring to the table rebounding wise. WCS has been better.
 
#10
Absolutely. The prominence of the 3 ball creates many more long rebounds out to the back court.
Many teams play an open middle which also allows guards more access to rebounds. In today's NBA guards need to be able to rebound. Buddy and Fox are great rebounders. Bogdan is pretty good at it.
I also think, at least hypothesize, that a guy like WCS switches out on the pick and pop and then leaks out on the break since he’s such a mobile big. Not all the time but certainly I see that happening. Just haven’t kept track of how many times that happens.
 
#13
I have watched how a couple of our bigs box out lately and for the most part the style is different.
WCS turns slightly and with one hand tries to keep the opposing player at bay.

Now with Giles he faces the basket with his arms slightly outstretched and backs the opponents back away and then he attack’s The basket or goes to the ball. But he boxes out the old fashion way.

Do both styles work well I suppose they do but with Bagley and Giles they are going to put up some good rebounding numbers as they adjust to the NBA.

I also started seeing something that warmed my heart last night and that was those two guys are starting to draw double teams down low and if that continues which it should as their offense develops it is going to really leave some good shooters with open looks.
 
#14
It’s no surprise that Willie’s rebounding numbers the last couple of games have improved as his effort level has jumped up considerably. A guy like him should be able to average 10 rebounds in his sleep.

I’m glad he’s finally showing some more aggression on the defensive side as well, as he’s finally blocking some of the shots he should have been blocking all season. We all knew he could do better.

Motivation seems to be his biggest negative at this point. I just don’t understand why he has the swings that he does. Oh well I guess that’s just Willie.
 
#16
WCS and Bagley actually look nice together and that's a very good thing. Bagley likes to clear space and call his own number but because of our run and gun style teams are left a bit overwhelmed by the pressure they create rim running.
 
#19
Bagley has hops, desire, good hands, and a big motor. That is most of what it takes. He needs to refine his technique. He will get stronger.
Thanks to Sucide King for the great post.
Rodman had a difficult upbringing (attitude) and a level of desire that was off the charts. Sure he is a goofball, but he could rebound like no one else in his size range.
How bad do you want it?
 
#20
We had a high school coach that would put a ring on the hoop so only a perfect shot would go in. Everything was a rebound. He really got on us about desire. After a while it becomes automatic. You have to get mean, you have to get fierce. Sometimes the Kings' wear tuxedos. No please, after you. You take it. Willie is the worst.

Buddy was the leading rebounder for the Kings against the Pistons.
 
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#21
I was never a Bulls fan but I always admired Rodman and the Pistons team he was on was just crazy tough.
Head case or not when his name is mentioned I don’t think nuts I think he was the best pure hustling rebounding player I have watched myself.
 
#22
This topic is the first thing I think about when it comes to improving the Kings' chances. They have not out rebounded anybody lately. This is a bad trend and needs to get corrected. The urgency is just not there. It should be a trade priority.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#23
A lot of the offensive rebounds the Kings give up are from perimeter players crashing the boards. Guys outside the paint usually don't think about boxing out, but they need to put a body on someone. Case in point, Bogie didn't box out Oubre at the end of the Suns' game and it completely changed their final possession.
It's every player on the floor's responsibility to box out and rebound. If you box out, you may not get the rebound, but the chances of one of your teammates getting it are much better. We get killed by long rebounds quite a bit, and that's on our guards, who many times are already heading back down the floor.

As far as, perhaps the implication that Giles and Bagley should be starting, the answer is a flat no. Bagley yes, but not Giles. Anyone that knows basketball would tell you that he's not ready to start. He's having a hard time just winning minutes period. That's not to say he won't be a starter in the future, just not now. He's still thinking instead of reacting. He becomes very mechanical at times, especially on offense when he goes iso, which gives he defense time to react. You start every game with Giles and Bagley, and watch the losses pile up. Just the match up problems alone will kill us.
 
#24
Our rebounding issues do play a role, but I think our biggest issue is our lack of SF production.

For the most part, Shumpert is our starting SF (started 36 games and has played 38). Below is a breakdown of his per36 starting stats in Ws & Ls:
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It's interesting. His 2P%, FT%, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, turnovers, & fouls are essentially the same. However, there is a huge discrepancy in 3P%. When Shumpert makes his 3s, we win for the most part.

We're 15-5 when Shumpert shoots above 30% from three, and we're 6-10 when Shumpert shoots below 30% from three. That's a team on pace for 62 wins team vs. a team on pace for 31 wins.

If we replace Shumpert with a guy like Otto Porter, we get a better, more consistent 3pt shooter who's going to bring reliable production from the SF spot every game. Not to mention his defense would be better than Shumpert's and he would help our rebounding issues. I think a lot of people are overlooking how good of a fit Porter is and how much his strengths could push us over the edge in a lot of games.
 
#25
If we replace Shumpert with a guy like Otto Porter, we get a better, more consistent 3pt shooter who's going to bring reliable production from the SF spot every game. Not to mention his defense would be better than Shumpert's and he would help our rebounding issues. I think a lot of people are overlooking how good of a fit Porter is and how much his strengths could push us over the edge in a lot of games.
You may very well be right, but I just don't understand why we think Porter is a possibility. Washington would not, no matter how stupid they are, trade their second best asset for cap space. Who do we have that they would want? WCS is the name thrown around the most but he is going to get a big paycheck that the Wiz won't want to pay.
 
#26
When the Kings' guards are the rebound leaders in a lot of games, I don't think you can hang their winning percentage on the lack of offensive production from the 3. Bogi is not the answer at the 3 either.
 
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