Post draft thread discussion (split)

#1
I thought an interesting part about the Kings press conference, was Vivek saying they had a list of criteria and "character" was very high on that list. A big part of that was working hard, being a "gym rat". Malone also said that included being willing to hit the weight room hard. The Kings feel these two players have the character they want. Vivek said a number of players fell or were dropped from their list, because they failed to meet this criterion in their minds.

Also, I think it was Malone who said McCallum was a very, very classy young man. I admire that he passed up playing for a bigger school, because he really wanted to play for his dad. Not a lot of teenagers would do that. Also, as someone said here earlier, I was wondering if this pick might mean the end of IT with the Kings. Guess we'll see.

It was clear during the press conference that they didn't want to say too much about Reke and that they aren't allowed to say some things at this point in time. Still, I feel that they want to keep Evans. At any rate, Its understandable that they want to protect their negotiating position at this time.
 
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#2
You thought this roster needed work before the draft? PDA's job got harder.

And this isn't a direct critique on the picks tonight, but we did nothing to balance out this roster or fix the issues we had going into tonight. Everything just got way more complicated.
Not really lol just gives us more options

Now it's clear that guys like Thornton are out the door. Draft night is Just that: one night. Much more to come, and I hope no one here believes that we'll be headed into training camp with 24 guards
 
#3

Not a lot of tape of McCallum on youtube, but here's a workout of sorts. I didn't like the pick because we should have gone with Mtchell or Withey, and we have an obvious glut of guards, but at least he seems like a smart guy. He dribbles the ball much too high, but he's very quick and he's extremely explosive. For a guy at 6'1'' in shoes, he can get up there. Worth watching the video just to see his hops.
 
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#4
I thought an interesting part about the Kings press conference, was Vivek saying they had a list of criteria and "character" was very high on that list. A big part of that was working hard, being a "gym rat". Malone also said that included being willing to hit the weight room hard. The Kings feel these two players have the character they want. Vivek said a number of players fell or were dropped from their list, because they failed to meet this criterion in their minds.
I thought that was interesting too because Jimmer and Isaiah are not locker rooms cancers, and they both hit the gym, so it's still no excuse to pick Ray McCallum over Withey.
 
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#5
I thought that was interesting too because Jimmer and Isaiah are not locker rooms cancers, and they both hit the gym, so it's still no excuse to pick Ray McCallum over Withey.
Best excuse for passing on Withey is he barely has pro level upside.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#6
I've just tried to catch up on all the notes. It was a good pick and I can understand why he was the #1 guy on our list. Noel is underweight and I doubt if he could ever be more then 230 as he has a slight frame. Guys like Cuz would eat him alive. There is also the knee surgery which I suspect will heal fine but there are no guarantees. Bennett is a great athlete but probably too short and a bad fit on our team. Len has a stress fracture which can recur. It's a bad sign. He isn't an overwhelming talent like Cuz anyway. Oladipo would have been fine but perhaps Ben is better on defense. Porter is a well rounded player but not a world class athlete. Zeller just isn't right. He'd get pushed around and unless he could be a SF, I wonder what his value would be.

Ben isn't perfect but he sure ain't bad. His skills have been mentioned. I have no doubt that he was the FO's #1 choice and we got him. His personality is a plus for OUR TEAM. He can jump out of the gym and shoots better than Jimmer. Unlike Jimmer, I suspect he'll shoot that well in the NBA also but who knows. He isn't being asked to be a PG like Jimmer has been asked and that is his advantage over Jimmer. Just making a comparison. I think he could make our team a three star team.

The FO was giddy. I trust those guys despite their inexperience and I love Vivek's involvement as, although I am sure he has a lot to say, he definitely knows who is smarter at basketball. It sounds like he would back up anything his guys want. The thing about Shaq mentoring Cuz is just an example that his purse strings are open.

I think McCallum spells the end of IT or what other reason would he have been picked? My first reaction was confusion but what else can be on the FO's mind? IT is all about IT and will find a job elsewhere. I never liked his style and the fact he could score isn't exactly a plus and now that we have Ben, I'm not sure how important he would be. McCallum is bigger. That's his main advantage over IT and, although I really don't know anything about him, the FO does and I trust them.

In the interview PDA stressed that we had a versatile group of guards and he liked that. Well, that's BS isn't it? We have one versatile guard and if PDA is excited, it's about Tyreke. He couldn't say more about Tyreke because they are negotiating. I certainly got the impression that they wanted to resign him but as Arn Tellum is no rookie at negotiating and appears to be playing a little hard ball by telling Tyreke not to go to the fan gathering, they didn't tip their hand as to how important they thought Tyreke would be. Certainly it would serve no purpose to share how much they are willing to pay. So the negotiation games begin.

I'm happy. This is the 2nd time in 4 years that we got our #1 guy without an obvious attempt at tanking. We didn't get the top pick yet got our best guy at #5 and #7. Who can complain? I shouldn't have asked that question.

Now the rest of the cluster frack of a team needs tweaking and the fun continues.
I highly doubt the FO picks a second rounder and then thinks: Oh, now let's unload IT. It's as if the underlying assumption is that any second round pg can displace IT. I don't think so. Most second rounders aren't going to be in the league after a year or so. The FO probably went BPA (I've read some good things about this kid), just like they did with McLemore. If he can push IT for the pg job, all the better. Also, the FO has to look at the depth at pg. At this point they either think one of two things: we have one pg in IT; or we have one pg in IT and the possibility of having another in Tyreke. In either scenario, it would make sense to get another pg.
 
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Kingster

Hall of Famer
#7
I'm curious at to why MLM was their clear #1 target no matter what, the top player in the draft for us, when we need defense and there's a guy like Noel out there. Got the impression we would have chosen MLM even if Noel was still there. Actually, I got the impression if we had the 1st pick overall we would have taken MLM.
It's simple: Best player available. And taking it one step further, for the Kings FO, it's obviously highly desirable for a two guard to be a big, highly athletic player who is an excellent shooter. That's why he was the "best".
 
#8
Refresh my memory: weren't we pretty capped out, then? Wasn't S&T pretty much Indiana's way of doing us a favor, because we wouldn't have been able to sign him outright? Let's suppose that it was the other way around, and we negotiated the S&T to do the Pacers a solid: does that prove that we beat out another team to get him? We're talking eight, nine years ago? How do we verify that?
Correct we didn't have cap space, but that's how sign and trades work. Miller was still a free agent that chose to come here. Indiana was just willing to take back players in a sign and trade. And FYI Lebron and Bosh were sign and trades too to get them more cap space to sign all 3.
 
J

jdbraver

Guest
#12
It's simple: Best player available. And taking it one step further, for the Kings FO, it's obviously highly desirable for a two guard to be a big, highly athletic player who is an excellent shooter. That's why he was the "best".


Plus noel is way to skinny to play pf. he wont be able to hold his ground. in a few years who knows. we know mclemore can shoot andis efficient. there will be more moves people. stop crying about noel who we all assumed would go higer anyway
 
#13
Correct we didn't have cap space, but that's how sign and trades work. Miller was still a free agent that chose to come here. Indiana was just willing to take back players in a sign and trade. And FYI Lebron and Bosh were sign and trades too to get them more cap space to sign all 3.
Yep, Brad Miller is the best example (maybe the only one, though) that the Kings have, in fact, signed impact free agents since Vlade. Miller was considered one of the top big men on the market, and once we acquired him the Spurs panicked and signed Rasho to a big $ deal (even the Spurs aren't perfect!).
 
#14
i'm gonna lay off the arguing over tyreke for the day, because i'm exhausted from the anxiety that yesterday introduced. i do want to say this, however: i can appreciate that ranadive, d'allesandro, and co. are so excited about having made their first draft pick for the sacramento kings, but for kings fans, it's been lottery pick after lottery pick after lottery pick. it's been seven years' worth, the last two being an utter waste of time and roster space. and personally, i wasn't all that excited about this year's draft, either, because there wasn't all that much to be excited about. there was no lebron james. there was no chris paul. there wasn't even a blake griffin...

yet ranadive's and d'allesandro's enthusiasm over ben mclemore seems out of proportion to his talent level. i don't want to make that sound like an unwarranted criticism, because, again, i do genuinely appreciate their early investment in revitalizing this franchise. but it does concern me a fair amount that we've seen their unbridled enthusiasm unleashed first over demarcus cousins, and then over ben mclemore. yet we've seen nothing of the sort with respect to tyreke evans. that may be for no other reason than the fact that evans is an RFA, and they've abstained from commenting on him too much because they have yet to enter into contract negotiations. but i remain concerned nonetheless, and i wish i could say that the drafting of ben mclemore did something to temper my anxiety...

now, the kings may very well have come away with the most talented player in this draft. however, even though mclemore has quite the jump shot, he still doesn't project out to be, say, steph curry, who was a superior ball handler, passer, and floor general upon entering the draft. really, we're looking at a klay thompson type in mclemore, which is hardly a bad thing. in my estimation, mclemore is representative of the kind of significant roleplayer this roster desperately needs. that said, he's also not the kinda guy you go "all in" for. he could become something special someday (as with many young players with any kind of ceiling whatsoever), but, as of this moment, he doesn't exactly have #2 written all over him. lemme put it this way: if the plan is to pair mclemore with tyreke evans in the backcourt, then i'm a very big fan of the pick. but, if the plan is to sacrifice tyreke at the altar of ben mclemore, who the new regime seems to believe in so much, despite how unproven he remains, and despite tyreke's proven level of production and undeniable ceiling, then i might just become sick to my stomach...

i've heard the "tyreke is not a PG!!!!!!!!!!!" nonsense repeated so thoroughly that i'd be half-tempted to believe it if i didn't know better, but here's the facts of the case: 'reke and mclemore are complementary to one another in style of play, which is precisely what i and a great many others have been clamoring for on this roster since demarcus cousins was drafted. the kings require pieces that fit together in a sensible way, and i rather like a team constructed with cousins, evans, and mclemore at it's core. it's a big, athletic, versatile backcourt. and you've got post play from DMC. you've got penetration from 'reke. you've got outside shooting from mclemore, and an athleticism that would be useful on the break. you've got defense from 'reke, and i hear that mclemore isn't entirely inept on that side of the floor, either. you've got ball-handling and passing from 'reke, and some passing from cousins, as well. find a way to bring in a SF who can also move the ball effectively, and it doesn't matter so much that tyreke is not the prototypical PG that a great many kings fans still desire, for some reason...

as with the kings of old, your ball movement would be by committee, rather than by virtue of a "traditional point." and yes, i fully recognize that these young players would never execute an offense as beautifully as that team did, but then again, they don't have to with a potentially-dominant big in cousins and an elite penetrator in evans, especially if malone's MO is to craft a defensively-disciplined team (of course, this remains to be seen, and i'm skeptical given the kings' apparent preference for guards in the '13 draft, despite being utterly overloaded in the backcourt)...
 
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rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#15
It's simple: Best player available. And taking it one step further, for the Kings FO, it's obviously highly desirable for a two guard to be a big, highly athletic player who is an excellent shooter. That's why he was the "best".
Not that simple at all if defense is your priority.
 
#16
the one thing that bothers me most about drafting McLemore: once Noel had fallen to Phoenix, if there had been the possibility of trading Thornton&7 for Beasley&5, the Kings should've done that. if the only reason those talks broke up was that the front office was sure that they'd be getting McLemore and they didn't care that much for Noel, then that's a disappointment for me, plain and simple.
 
#17
Not that simple at all if defense is your priority.
I think there is a disconnect between Malone's defensive mindset and "defensive" players. Malone just wants his guys to buy into a defensive philosophy, hustle, stick to assignments, be accountable. McClemore is a great example of a coachable athlete who will fall in line with Malone's defensive vision, imo.
 
#18
the one thing that bothers me most about drafting McLemore: once Noel had fallen to Phoenix, if there had been the possibility of trading Thornton&7 for Beasley&5, the Kings should've done that. if the only reason those talks broke up was that the front office was sure that they'd be getting McLemore and they didn't care that much for Noel, then that's a disappointment for me, plain and simple.
PHX loved Len and had him #1 on their board. Pelicans (can't get over this new name) would've most likely taken Len @6 as he is a much better fit alongside Davis than Noel would've been. Kings might've also red flagged Noel's knee(s) like PHX medical staff did...who knows?
 
#19
the one thing that bothers me most about drafting McLemore: once Noel had fallen to Phoenix, if there had been the possibility of trading Thornton&7 for Beasley&5, the Kings should've done that. if the only reason those talks broke up was that the front office was sure that they'd be getting McLemore and they didn't care that much for Noel, then that's a disappointment for me, plain and simple.
We don't know the status of Noel knee. 5 teams obviously were worried about it, we may have been as well. A team like ours in a transition, needs to not waste a high draft pick on a potential Greg Oden. I'm not saying this is an Oden/Durant situation, but it could be similar. Noel may have not even been on our draft board because of the knee issues.
 
#20
More I read up on McCallum, the more I like him. He's got decent size, greath athleticism, he's got the potential to be a good defensive player at the NBA level, and everything points to him to be not just a scoring PG, but an excellent floor leader with PG instincts as well. His Bball IQ might be one of his biggest assets as well being coached by his dad at Detroit.

If nothing else, we added great size, great athleticism, 2 (potentially) good defensive players, great bball IQ, and 2 guys who know their position in the backcourt, and 2 guys willing to be team players.
 
#21
some fans on here are just crazy, you don't pass on a talent like McLemore because we have Tyreke(who has been wildly inconsitent and erratic for four seasons, and is still very much a project). McLemore is not only smoothe, efficient off the ball, with a textbook jumpshot, but he has ELITE athletic ability, we're talking young Dwayne Wade, Derrick Rose, Russel Westrbrook level. Tyreke doesn't have that, and like it or not that what separates a budding all star from a star. A guy can work on his defense, shooting, off the dribble moves and ball handling or other basketball skills, but you cant teach athleticism, and McLemore has that at an elite level with the skills to match. I want Tyreke to stay of course, imagine Tyreke and McLemore getting steals and running the break.... absolutely lethal combination of speed, power and athleticism. Also defensively they have the potential to be suffocating, now if only we could find that defensive SF role player/spot up shooter. If we start Patterson and find a shooter at SF, floor spacing will finally be amazing for Cousins and Tyreke, with McLemore running off screens.

C: Cousins/JT/Hayes
PF:patterson/JT
SF:?/Evans/Outlaw
SG:McLemore
PG:Evans/IT/McCollum
 
#22
More I read up on McCallum, the more I like him. He's got decent size, greath athleticism, he's got the potential to be a good defensive player at the NBA level, and everything points to him to be not just a scoring PG, but an excellent floor leader with PG instincts as well. His Bball IQ might be one of his biggest assets as well being coached by his dad at Detroit.

If nothing else, we added great size, great athleticism, 2 (potentially) good defensive players, great bball IQ, and 2 guys who know their position in the backcourt, and 2 guys willing to be team players.
From what PD said he has been watching him for awhile. Hard worker, high character and good BB IQ. Hopefully a guard that can actually pass on the pick and roll.
 
#23
From what PD said he has been watching him for awhile. Hard worker, high character and good BB IQ. Hopefully a guard that can actually pass on the pick and roll.
The only apparent weakness he has is his outside shot. Even that though, he improved tremendously from his sophomore to junior seasons. He doesn't have a mega "Strength" but he's a guy who can do everything else at a solid level.

What I like is he wasn't just a typical small-school scoring PG who jacked up 20 shots a game. He looks to get his teammates involved and be a real floor leader. With his size and athleticism, I think he could be a solid defender as well. His game bodes well for a future as a back-up PG.
 
#24
My head is going to explode from all the blatant ignorance about Tyreke's game. It's absolutely amazing. If he does in fact leave, one thing I won't miss is the usual crowd and their misguided opinions.
 
#25
what do we have to offer them though? Thornton's salary won't match up with Vasquez. Maybe a swap for IT?
Cant NO just absorb the salary? I am not sure what their cap level is. If it was the other way around I am sure we could absorb it.
 
#26
My head is going to explode from all the blatant ignorance about Tyreke's game. It's absolutely amazing. If he does in fact leave, one thing I won't miss is the usual crowd and their misguided opinions.
What does it matter? People do have different opinions. Does not mean either side is wrong or right.
 
#29
What does it matter? People do have different opinions. Does not mean either side is wrong or right.
No problem with diversity of opinions. But some of the stuff is akin to believing that the earth is flat. It just flies in the face of all available evidence and no matter how many times it's presented to them, they ignore it and continue on their path of complete ignorance. I'm not even talking about you here Gary. There's other posters who are far more out of touch when it comes to 'Reke than you. I'd imagine they only watch Kings games and the finals, to be honest, because they have no idea that Tyreke is better than most SGs in the league despite all the sh***y coaches and everything else that went with it.
 
#30
I've warmed to the Ray McCallum pick, but I still don't know how this roster makes any sense. Every year, it's the same holes in the roster, and no matter the talent and amount of lottery picks, the team loses because it doesn't fit together well. Another draft with new ownership and the same holes remain, and I'm not confident they can address those holes via free agency. Maybe after some trades, I'll feel better, but GOOD LORD how can you ignore SF, PG, and shotblocking? The Renadive group is supposed to be smart, but they came out of this draft saying all the things Petrie would say. "We needed BPA." "We lost so obviously we have no talent." "We were lucky to get the guy we always wanted!"