Possible Free agents
- Thread starter sactowndog
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Given Joerger’s praise of them in the past, and managements willingness to get coach his guys, I could see the team go after Hood or Randle, depending on whether they draft a wing or big. They’ve also been linked in the past to Hezonja, who is finally showing signs of realizing his potential. Would be fine targeting these types of younger players who may still break out in a better situation.
It will depend on who Kings end up drafting. I would not be surprised if Kings are linked to Jokić (would expect Denver to match), Hood, and Randle. Hezonja is another one. I know Divac is a huge Jokić fan. Coach Joerger is a big fan of Hood and Randle and Hezonja is someone that we have been linked to since his draft year.
Denver is for sure matching Jokic. I would assume Cleveland matches Hood as well. Let’s assume restricted free agents are off the table as few valuable ones ever move and so not a likely realistic option.
I think Randle will get plenty of offers and the Kings aren’t a top destination. Plus I’m guessing we are going big as Doncic will be 1 and Porter is injured. Now those assumptions may be off but historically and statistically I think they are reasonable.
I think Randle will get plenty of offers and the Kings aren’t a top destination. Plus I’m guessing we are going big as Doncic will be 1 and Porter is injured. Now those assumptions may be off but historically and statistically I think they are reasonable.
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The old saying is, "You can never go back". While I don't think that's an absolute, I do think there's a lot of truth in it. I think it's time to consider the kind of team that Vlade is trying to build, and whether a player fits into that system. In this case, I don't think Isaiah fits. For instance, my complaint with Hill was that he was a ball stopper, that pounded the ball to death, and killed ball movement. That unto itself doesn't make him a bad player, but it made him a bad fit on the Kings team. Isaiah has similar traits, and for that reason, I don't think he would be a good fit.
I think the organization has to think carefully about any player of significance they bring in. Whoever it is, should play a style of basketball that fits what the team is doing. If your trying to build a team that moves the ball, and has player movement off the ball, then you don't bring in a player that lives off of isolation. Isaiah tends to be a selfish player offensively, and he's a liability defensively. I'll pass..
I think the organization has to think carefully about any player of significance they bring in. Whoever it is, should play a style of basketball that fits what the team is doing. If your trying to build a team that moves the ball, and has player movement off the ball, then you don't bring in a player that lives off of isolation. Isaiah tends to be a selfish player offensively, and he's a liability defensively. I'll pass..
There was about a nine minute interview with Giles on Twitter, and in that interview, when asked what part of his game he thought he needed to work on, he said he wanted to improve the consistency of his three pt shot. That implies that he has a three pt shot. Really looking forward to summer league to see him up close and personal.
I sure would like to ask Joerger if he's a big fan of Hood's. Only because Joerger is a coach that preaches defense, and Hood, while a good offensive player, has been a terrible defender of late. Maybe Joerger knows a deep secret that we don't know. If I'm the Kings, of those three I think I would have Hezonja at the top of my list and Randle second. Hezonja fills a need, and he's young, so he fits the team criteria. Randle fits the youth part, but he's still sort of a throw back PF, who won't help stretch the floor. He would help in the rebounding dept though.
Don't know about Jokic. First, I doubt that Denver will let him get away, so the exercise would probably be a waste of time, other than to drive the price up. Plus, I think it depends on how the Kings look at Willie. If they see him as their center of the future, then I doubt they go after Jokic. Especially if they end up drafting an Ayton, or a Jaren Jackson. So who they draft will likely affect who they pursue in freeagency. I think it's more likely that the Kings will take on a big expiring contract for a future draft pick. Perhaps a 2019 draft pick.
Don't know about Jokic. First, I doubt that Denver will let him get away, so the exercise would probably be a waste of time, other than to drive the price up. Plus, I think it depends on how the Kings look at Willie. If they see him as their center of the future, then I doubt they go after Jokic. Especially if they end up drafting an Ayton, or a Jaren Jackson. So who they draft will likely affect who they pursue in freeagency. I think it's more likely that the Kings will take on a big expiring contract for a future draft pick. Perhaps a 2019 draft pick.
List of young targets I'd go after:
- Zach LaVine (Max, longjam at SG, but he'd fit right in with Fox. I think he'd easily be the best player on our roster. Potential franchise player )
- Aaron Gordon (Max, he's a potential franchise player with lots of room to grow)
- Jabari Parker (18m+, big gamble, but big reward if he pans out)
- TJ Warren (7-10million, I don't like his playstyle at all, but if we can get him for cheap, he'd be a good option at SF)
- Doug McDermott (4-7million, I expect him to get more in FA, but he's a solid backup)
- Mario Hezonja (3-5million, he's a weird player who plays SG/SF/PF but can't find a position to guard. low risk, high reward if he figures it out)
- Richaun Holmes (2-4million, good energy backup PF)
- Trevor Ariza (4-5million, I don't care for him and he doesn't fit our rebuild, but could be a solid SF filler at 33 yearsold)
Randle's name irks me. He's only 23yearsold, but the Kings have had too many low IQ players... Randle would be another. Yes he's a good passing big man, but his assist:TO ration is 2.3:2.4
He's an old school ball dominant, high usage PF. I can't stand the offense being centered around ZBo. If we bring in Randle, it's ZBo 2.0 all over again. I don't know about you guys, but I'm fed up of watching a ball dominant, high usage, and ISO big man. We've seen that for the past 8 years. It's time to move on. Fox is our supposed centerpiece no?
Then please, for the love of god...but players around him that actually fit. High flyer, high paced, uptempo, etc. I don't want Randle anywhere near Sacramento.
He's an old school ball dominant, high usage PF. I can't stand the offense being centered around ZBo. If we bring in Randle, it's ZBo 2.0 all over again. I don't know about you guys, but I'm fed up of watching a ball dominant, high usage, and ISO big man. We've seen that for the past 8 years. It's time to move on. Fox is our supposed centerpiece no?
Then please, for the love of god...but players around him that actually fit. High flyer, high paced, uptempo, etc. I don't want Randle anywhere near Sacramento.
My dream target would be getting Aaron Gordon. He would fit so perfectly with the rest of the core. He alone basically solves all the lineup issues the kings currently have. If he's the PF you get a high motor wing defender that also stretches the floor for Fox. It moves Zbo to the bench next season where he should be once youre serious about winning.
Going forward it would be Fox, Gordon, Draftpick in 2018 surrounded by some combination of Wcs, Mason, Hield, Jackson and Giles. Thats a hell of rebuilding job before losing the pick in 2019.
If the Magic have doubts about maxing him, I hope the Kings explore all of options of getting him, including maxing him, a draft day deal or a sign-and-trade.
Smaller names I like: Jerami Grant, Glenn Robinson, Luke Babbitt, Mike Muscala, Channing Frye, Tarik Black
Going forward it would be Fox, Gordon, Draftpick in 2018 surrounded by some combination of Wcs, Mason, Hield, Jackson and Giles. Thats a hell of rebuilding job before losing the pick in 2019.
If the Magic have doubts about maxing him, I hope the Kings explore all of options of getting him, including maxing him, a draft day deal or a sign-and-trade.
Smaller names I like: Jerami Grant, Glenn Robinson, Luke Babbitt, Mike Muscala, Channing Frye, Tarik Black
I don't think that Randle is a low IQ player, but I do agree that he's not a great fit with his current skill set. That said, he's still young and you would be betting on him improving his perimeter game. Personally, that's a bet I wouldn't make, especially if it required a long term commitment on our part. I know your in love with Gordon, but I look at Gordon as a more athletic version of Randle. Randle scores most of his points in the paint, and so does Gordon. But Randle is more efficient at it.
Gordon shoots 72.5% from 3 feet or less while Randle shoots 74.2% from that distance. As you can see, both are very efficient from there. The strange one is that Gordon only shoots 30.9% between 3 and 10 feet, a distance you'd think he would be deadly, while Randle shoots 38.3% from there. Both players are similar from 10 feet to the three pt line, Gordon shooting 37.3% and Randle shooting 37.0%.
The main difference between the two players other than physical characteristics is that Gordon pumps out around 5 three pt attempts a game. And as I pointed out in an earlier post, although he's shooting 34.6% on the year from there, he's shooting under 30% from there in his last 20 games and has a career average of 30.8%. Both players usage rate is similar, but Gordon's ORtg is 106 against Randles rating of 110, and Gordon's DRtg is 110 against Randles rating of 107.
I doubt that Randle will ever be a consistent 3 pt shooter, and he seems to have little desire in that area since he doesn't even take one attempt a game. So the defining factor for me with Gordon, is will he ever be a consistent 3 pt shooter. Right now, if you go simply on per 36 numbers, Randle scores more pt's, and grabs more rebounds. He has a better offensive rating and a better defensive rating, and with all that, I don't think he's a good fit for the team. For those same reasons, I don't think Gordon is a good fit either.
To some degree I think both players would help the team, but the lack of fit might hurt the team long term.
Gordon shoots 72.5% from 3 feet or less while Randle shoots 74.2% from that distance. As you can see, both are very efficient from there. The strange one is that Gordon only shoots 30.9% between 3 and 10 feet, a distance you'd think he would be deadly, while Randle shoots 38.3% from there. Both players are similar from 10 feet to the three pt line, Gordon shooting 37.3% and Randle shooting 37.0%.
The main difference between the two players other than physical characteristics is that Gordon pumps out around 5 three pt attempts a game. And as I pointed out in an earlier post, although he's shooting 34.6% on the year from there, he's shooting under 30% from there in his last 20 games and has a career average of 30.8%. Both players usage rate is similar, but Gordon's ORtg is 106 against Randles rating of 110, and Gordon's DRtg is 110 against Randles rating of 107.
I doubt that Randle will ever be a consistent 3 pt shooter, and he seems to have little desire in that area since he doesn't even take one attempt a game. So the defining factor for me with Gordon, is will he ever be a consistent 3 pt shooter. Right now, if you go simply on per 36 numbers, Randle scores more pt's, and grabs more rebounds. He has a better offensive rating and a better defensive rating, and with all that, I don't think he's a good fit for the team. For those same reasons, I don't think Gordon is a good fit either.
To some degree I think both players would help the team, but the lack of fit might hurt the team long term.
The biggest difference between Gordon and Randle for me is that one of them moves well without the ball, while the other doesn't. With Gordon, he's a guy who doesn't take a play off. He'll crash the offensive boards hard. He'll set screens for teammates all over the floor. He finds many ways to contribute off-ball. I don't see the same thing with Randle. He needs the ball in his hands to impact a game. On offense, I'm really shocked that he hasn't developed a mid-range shot. We saw glimpses of it in his first healthy year as a Laker, but he seems to have gone away with it. I think he'll be able to develop it down the line, but if I had to pick between Randle and Gordon, I'd pick Gordon.
A Randle-WCS frontcourt would hamper floor spacing for Fox and our guards.
Not saying Randle is a bad player. He's an athletic traditional back to the basket PF. However, I don't see the fit with him on this team nor as a big/good player in modern NBA. Derrick Favors isn't nearly as athletic as Randle, but he was considered a top PF/C hand to hand with Cousins 3-4 years ago. Now? He's probably Utah's 5th best player (Rubio, Mitchell, Ingles, and Gobert). Same with Greg Monroe and Jahlil Okafor. Randle is a lot more athletic and quick than these players, but he offers the same skillsets that teams don't value anymore.
A Randle-WCS frontcourt would hamper floor spacing for Fox and our guards.
Not saying Randle is a bad player. He's an athletic traditional back to the basket PF. However, I don't see the fit with him on this team nor as a big/good player in modern NBA. Derrick Favors isn't nearly as athletic as Randle, but he was considered a top PF/C hand to hand with Cousins 3-4 years ago. Now? He's probably Utah's 5th best player (Rubio, Mitchell, Ingles, and Gobert). Same with Greg Monroe and Jahlil Okafor. Randle is a lot more athletic and quick than these players, but he offers the same skillsets that teams don't value anymore.
Maybe this can be repurposed as a general offseason thread...but I’m curious...if both Fultz and Ball were semi-available this offseason would we be interested in either?
For instance, if we get the 3rd pick and the Sixers get 6 or 7 and dangle Fultz to move up, would we want him?
I’m on record that Deng/ Ball will be moved if Lebron goes to LA. Any interest?
For instance, if we get the 3rd pick and the Sixers get 6 or 7 and dangle Fultz to move up, would we want him?
I’m on record that Deng/ Ball will be moved if Lebron goes to LA. Any interest?
http://www.phillyvoice.com/what-has...kelle-fultz-shoulder-injury-broken-jump-shot/
Read that on Fultz. I wouldn't touch him with a 10ft pole.
Read that on Fultz. I wouldn't touch him with a 10ft pole.
-Don't have a prayer at Lavine. Bulls view him exactly as you do; their future franchise player and they don't have an cap constraints to keep him. Non-starter.
-Gordon I'm board. They've given everyone the impression they're ready to hit the reset button again on their reset and might not want to pay Gordon, especially when it's looking like he and Isaac are going to play the same position at PF. This guy is just an absolute ideal fit with Fox in transition and the PnR/defensive potential with him and WCS being able to switch everything is exactly what we should be pursuing. I wouldn't flip our top 5 pick for him, but I'd absolutely consider it if we end up 6-8 range.
-Parker is tricky too, but I'm a huge believer in his game. Think he can be a legit #1 scoring option in this league and he again would work great with the rest of the core. We might be in a better position than most teams to gamble on him because we simply don't have any pressing deals, other than WCS, coming up in the next 2 years. If he shows he's good these last 2 months of the year, I'll be all in.
-Warren, I'm out. Pretty much a volume scorer that doesn't do much else and isn't better than Buddy or Bogdan at that anyway. He's older too and doesn't really fit our timeline.
-I like Doug as a player, but I don't think he's needed with JJ on the team.
-Hezonja is showing out nicely the last month or so with Gordon out. 15 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 1.7 APG on 39% 3pt and 61% TS in 15 games as a starter. Like you said, he's a flex player and still trying to find a defensive home, but he's been doing well in that 3/4 flex role that every team wants. What can we offer him though as a contract? He's an Unrestricted Free Agent right? He fits the timeline well, only being 22 years old, fills a huge team positional need and he's a "risk" that a lot of teams won't want to take if we offered... 9 mil a year or so.
-I absolutely love Holmes and whoever takes a chance on this guy is going to get a total steal. All he's done since he's stepped onto an NBA floor is produce. Don't think there's space here unfortunately, but a very good player nonetheless.
Another guy I'm really high on is Jerami Grant. He's starting to tap into his defensive potential this year and he's been great as a flex player at the 3, 4 and 5 this season off the bench for OKC. Can't shoot, but he is now what we're hoping Jakkar Sampson to be.
-Gordon I'm board. They've given everyone the impression they're ready to hit the reset button again on their reset and might not want to pay Gordon, especially when it's looking like he and Isaac are going to play the same position at PF. This guy is just an absolute ideal fit with Fox in transition and the PnR/defensive potential with him and WCS being able to switch everything is exactly what we should be pursuing. I wouldn't flip our top 5 pick for him, but I'd absolutely consider it if we end up 6-8 range.
-Parker is tricky too, but I'm a huge believer in his game. Think he can be a legit #1 scoring option in this league and he again would work great with the rest of the core. We might be in a better position than most teams to gamble on him because we simply don't have any pressing deals, other than WCS, coming up in the next 2 years. If he shows he's good these last 2 months of the year, I'll be all in.
-Warren, I'm out. Pretty much a volume scorer that doesn't do much else and isn't better than Buddy or Bogdan at that anyway. He's older too and doesn't really fit our timeline.
-I like Doug as a player, but I don't think he's needed with JJ on the team.
-Hezonja is showing out nicely the last month or so with Gordon out. 15 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 1.7 APG on 39% 3pt and 61% TS in 15 games as a starter. Like you said, he's a flex player and still trying to find a defensive home, but he's been doing well in that 3/4 flex role that every team wants. What can we offer him though as a contract? He's an Unrestricted Free Agent right? He fits the timeline well, only being 22 years old, fills a huge team positional need and he's a "risk" that a lot of teams won't want to take if we offered... 9 mil a year or so.
-I absolutely love Holmes and whoever takes a chance on this guy is going to get a total steal. All he's done since he's stepped onto an NBA floor is produce. Don't think there's space here unfortunately, but a very good player nonetheless.
Another guy I'm really high on is Jerami Grant. He's starting to tap into his defensive potential this year and he's been great as a flex player at the 3, 4 and 5 this season off the bench for OKC. Can't shoot, but he is now what we're hoping Jakkar Sampson to be.
I'm with you on most of these. Hezonja is making an interesting case for himself to say the least.
Parker is the wild card. He can sink the franchise if we give him a big contract and he's hurt every year. He has all the potential to be a #1 scorer but I haven't seen enough of his game to know how well of a fit he is next to WCS, Koufos and the myth that is Giles.
Parker is the wild card. He can sink the franchise if we give him a big contract and he's hurt every year. He has all the potential to be a #1 scorer but I haven't seen enough of his game to know how well of a fit he is next to WCS, Koufos and the myth that is Giles.
I think the point I was trying to make, is that I'm not thrilled with picking up either Randle or Gordon. I agree with almost everything you said about Randle. I can argue that he's a better rebounder and he's more efficient offensively than Gordon, but he is mostly a post player and that alone makes him a poor fit on a team that's trying to spread the floor. Say what you want about Willie, but he's quite comfortable playing near the perimeter, and the more consistent he becomes with that jumpshot, the better fit Willie will be. I just don't see that possibility with Randle.
If someone could convince me that Gordon had a consistent 3 pt shot, I'd be on board, but so far he's done nothing to convince me. He got off to a good start this season, but in the last 20 games prior to his injury, he was back to shooting under 30% from the three, which is what he's shot for his career. It's going to take more than 30 or 35 games of shooting the ball around 37% from the three to change my mind. I could live with 33% from there, but anything at 30% or under, is going into Marcus Smart territory. He only shoots 44% overall, which isn't good for a big man.
Would Gordon help the team a little? Yeah, probably. Can we do better than him? Yes!!! Gordon is the kind of player the King's don't want to lock up on a long term contract for max money. Yes, he's a live body with a great motor, but he's not an efficient scorer, and his defense is overrated.
If someone could convince me that Gordon had a consistent 3 pt shot, I'd be on board, but so far he's done nothing to convince me. He got off to a good start this season, but in the last 20 games prior to his injury, he was back to shooting under 30% from the three, which is what he's shot for his career. It's going to take more than 30 or 35 games of shooting the ball around 37% from the three to change my mind. I could live with 33% from there, but anything at 30% or under, is going into Marcus Smart territory. He only shoots 44% overall, which isn't good for a big man.
Would Gordon help the team a little? Yeah, probably. Can we do better than him? Yes!!! Gordon is the kind of player the King's don't want to lock up on a long term contract for max money. Yes, he's a live body with a great motor, but he's not an efficient scorer, and his defense is overrated.