Now I'm worried.....again!

[CruzDude]

Now I'm worried.....again! but not so much now

Wed, 5-Jan-05 Well after Jazz-Spurs-Knicks I sure am not worried so much any more. But lets see after three more sub-500 teams on this road trip. If we end up with 4 road kills then this thread can finally go away. CD

First it was the starting 5 all with nearly 40 minutes a game this early in teh season. Then it was the bench and lack thereof, now decimated by BJax injury. True, Songalia does well and Barnes had flashes but has not been consistent.

Now what? Well Evans has had some flashes but other than Tag none of the others have had much of a chance.

I'd like to see Evans and Daniels in there against some of the young pups Miami has, maybe Daniels too. But get them some time with 2-3 starters. Like 10-15 minutes each.

Martin could be great if he gets his confidence going and gets some playing time, but when and why?

What I worry about most is wearing out the starting 5 with too many minutes and a bench mindset they just won't get much time.

 

[KP]

First it was the starting 5 all with nearly 40 minutes a game this early in teh season. Then it was the bench and lack thereof, now decimated by BJax injury. True, Songalia does well and Barnes had flashes but has not been consistent.

Now what? Well Evans has had some flashes but other than Tag none of the others have had much of a chance.

I'd like to see Evans and Daniels in there against some of the young pups Miami has, maybe Daniels too. But get them some time with 2-3 starters. Like 10-15 minutes each.

Martin could be great if he gets his confidence going and gets some playing time, but when and why?

What I worry about most is wearing out the starting 5 with too many minutes and a bench mindset they just won't get much time.

The starters haven't really been close to 40 min a game all of them are under 40 most of them around 35. Peja's playing the most at 38.9 and thats way less than he was playing last year. But your right they are going to get pushed hard now to make up for Bobby and I'm especially worried about Doug and his foot. I guess what I mean is, I'm worried too.

 

[VF21]

I guess I've just become too used to things like this happening to be "worried" because worrying does absolutely no good.

I prefer to think that between Adelman, Petrie, the rest of the team, etc. they'll find a way to compensate for Bobby's absence ... or they won't. My worrying isn't going to change the situation one iota, so I prefer to look at the bright side.

Our bench is going to get more play which could lead to more confidence on the part of some of the new guys. They're going to need that further down the road, so it may end up being not so bad that Bobby is going to miss some time.

It seems things are still up in the air about how long Bobby will be out; what treatment he will receive for his hand; etc.

So, what am I saying? Just that I prefer to have faith in the team and hope, than to worry about something I can't change.

Concerned? You bet. Worried? Nah.....

 

[Gtronic]

well said

 

[CruzDude]

My worrying is a figure of speech. I've watched every Kings game on Sat for years and long ago gave up letting the flucuations bother me. But that doesn't stop me from being "worried" about the sine wave style of the kings this year, such as from 1st to 2nd quarter and letting a 12pt lead slip away in the 4th. For the moment, based on the Heat game I too will wait and see how the bench responds.

Mo Evans was great: a 6-5 version of BJax and the OF rebounds were a charge!! But we need at least one more bench guy to step it up and for the starting 5 to smooth out that sine wave with a good filter attitude. They still get impatient and have become league famous for "letting the opponent back in the game". And very athletic teams like the Heat will give them lots of problems.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm not so worried about our weaknesses at the moment (well yes I am) as our mental state. This team has been through a lot of wars through the years. To be mentally collapsing and panicking against good teams is simply unacceptable. And more than unacceptable, I'm not sure if its correctable. About 4-5 years of being an elite team, after playoff war after playoff war, pretty much if the team doesn't know how to close out a good opponent by now, I sincerely doubt its suddenly going to learn how to in a few months of regular season play.

Worse yet, I have no idea what we can do to fix it. There's no one player responsible. Its the team as a whole. Outside of bringing back Jordan in his prime to instill the team with organization and confidence in late games, no idea what to do. In a lot of ways its easier to think of ways to correct lack of shotblocking -- trade for a shotblocker. But mental stuff...that runs deep, runs through a lot of players, and is very hard to explain or fix.

 

[CruzDude]

Talk about hitting the nail on the "worried" head..

Brick, you have gotten to the core of the problem and you're right, there is no quick fix, no one player to get, no one thing to do. Change a coach? trade a starter? Maybe we're getting to the point that we HAVE to do something to break out of what has become a giant Kings Rut.

Bad enough the Kings are predictable (everyone knows they will let anyone back in the game, no interior defense, no real athleticism) but they seem to ebb and flow from one quarter to the next in an all too familiar pattern.

My wife, for the first time since 1997, said "the Kings are no fun to watch now. They are not interesting and I really don't have the desire to watch every game anymore". Maybe she has hit upon something. Being fun to watch means they are exciting which means they are hustling, on offense at least with bigger spurts on defense.

Have they fallen back into the trap of CWebbs return this spring when the team changed to accommodate his ailing style of play rather than keep doing their winning ways. They have no quickness and seem to accept that. Not much argument we have 3 flat footed big guys. Every team in the league knows it too.

Look at our last 10 wins. How many have been "good" basketball or "exciting" games? Last night was one of the best games of the year and they still lost because the Heat made more shots. The Kings excelled in every stat category except FG made and total points.

Not exciting = dull = predictable = no athleticism. Everything runs in cycles. Did the Kings hit their peak in the spring of 2002? Maybe they did. Now everyone together what 4 or 5 years and no better?

If I ran my business like the Kings play, the competition would eat me up as the good teams have. Coach is playing with the hand dealt him by Geoff who has the players within the budget provided by the Maloofs.

Something has to change. What? Wish I knew.......

 

[Kingsgurl]

Well, we could fire the coach, blow up the team, trading the core for expiring contracts. A 28 win season ought to position us well in the lottery. Nothing like the excitement of hoping for the right combination of ping-pong balls. Heck, in three or four years, if everything goes right, we could be winning 50 plus games a year again, or not.

Sometimes you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone.

.

 

[AriesMar27]

28 is too many with the way that the hornets are playing...

 

[nAj jAn™]

My wife, for the first time since 1997, said "the Kings are no fun to watch now. They are not interesting and I really don't have the desire to watch every game anymore". Maybe she has hit upon something. Being fun to watch means they are exciting which means they are hustling, on offense at least with bigger spurts on defense.

Have they fallen back into the trap of CWebbs return this spring when the team changed to accommodate his ailing style of play rather than keep doing their winning ways. They have no quickness and seem to accept that. Not much argument we have 3 flat footed big guys. Every team in the league knows it too.

The Kings have played together for 4-5 years now! With Divac gone, the Kings prime are definitely fading and fading...

Webber will not be back to his old days, Doug is getting older, Pedja is still Pedja, inconsistent always in the playoffs, Bibby will be Bibby, his defense will not improve, and Bobby is now injury prone and getting older...

The excitement of Kings basketball will not be there every game or be back again, but still you are a Kings fan...You watched them grow, or in this case, your wife watched them fading and getting older!

Even though players will not be the same again in their old exciting Kings basketball, your wife shoud face it! She had been watching the Kings exciting game for 7 years... They are not getting younger!!!

Dallas was an exciting team to watch couple years ago, and now, they are just a regular west team..Maybe because Nash is gone...or the trading of players every year..

I think after this year, the Kings will know if they still be a
(1) championship contender, or
(2) a team that will be just a Season type of team, 50 wins every year and dissappear in the playoffs...

Then, that's the time to get worried 'coz the starting five might be dismantled......

 

[Kingsgurl]

My wife, for the first time since 1997, said "the Kings are no fun to watch now.

A couple idle questions about this-
First off, exactly what did she find so exciting about the 97 team? A discontented Richmond? OP? Otis Thorpe? Winning 27 games? I'm going to assume you really meant since 98-99 season, would that be correct? Which brings me to my second idle musing, did she watch before then?

 

[CruzDude]

My wife, for the first time since 1997, said "the Kings are no fun to watch now.

Sorry for error. This should have been ... since 1998. We moved to Santa Cruz in '98 after the miserable Mitch the Witch year in '97. Odd, we move, they got better........ (don't go there!!)

The Kings have been exciting up until the Webbs return last year. They have never been the same since. This year there have been what, 2 maybe 3 "exciting" games? I mean they are beating sub-500 teams but can't beat the top echelon teams: Wolves, Heat, Spurs, Mavs and Sonics. They beat the Lakers who are not a top team anymore.

We all have been spoiled by the Kings for 6 years now and have come to expect exciting basketball. Exciting basketball is beating the top teams.

 

[quick dog]

I am not sure that the Kings are really in trouble. We tend to over-react to losses and widely perceived trends. We have an entire season to worry if that's what you want to do. The pundits have already mailed-in their votes of "no confidence" in the Kings.

Remember all the years that Sacramento, San Antonio, Minnesota, Dallas, and other teams have torn-up the regular season only to lose critical games in the playoffs. I'm not sure the regular season means all that much. We are in fourth place in the West now, and I suspect we will be in fourth place after the All-Star break.

So as ususal, injuries will probably determine the late season winners and losers.

We have as good a chance as any other team of making it into the finals. When Duncan and Garnett eventually go town with significant injuries, you can turn out the lights in San Antonio and Minneapolis. We simply don't know what will happen this year.

Don't worry, be happy.

 

[Bricklayer]

We all have been spoiled by the Kings for 6 years now and have come to expect exciting basketball. Exciting basketball is beating the top teams.

Uh...that seems to be a pretty narrow definition. I would classify both of the last two games as very exciting games. One we won. One we lost. Was excruciating, but exciting. So were the T-Wolves games for that matter. Great nailbiting throw stuff at the TV games. So was the Dallas series last year. Ho-hum, win a playoff series over the team that knocked you out last year with a whole string of last minute defesnive stands? So was the Minnesota series. Seven game series that comes down to a missed three at the Game 7 buzzer???

Like I say, VERY narrow definition of exciting. Sounds closer to "gratifying" or "easy". But damn, this team as always plays tight games, tight series, scores a lot of points, makes beautiful passes, bombs three pointers...unless you're a dunk fanatic you're going to have a hard time finding a MORE exciting team (not the same thing necessarily as "better"). Perhaps your wife was aiming for "excited about the future prospects". Sounds kind of bandwagony, but I do think that accurately explains the malaise which has stolen the thunder from Arco.

 

[scarlet_steph]

What's with all this pessimism? Don't worry, we'll be just fine.

Kings not fun to watch? Did you see the game against Miami? That was fun to watch. We lost, but hey...we showed what we were made of somehow...of course we blew a big lead...but hey, we were shorthanded... Time and again sh*t happens. But hey, we face it, then move on.

Don't worry Cruzdude...be happy.

We'll be fine.

 

[VF21]

I'm sorry if you no longer find the Kings exciting, CruzDude... and I mean that in all seriousness. I simply cannot even begin to imagine how it would feel to no longer feel my heart beat with anticipation before the game, to no longer jump from my chair in excitement at a good alley-oop or dunk, to no longer get chills from seeing Pedja put up one of those gorgeous shots from around the popcorn stand. I also don't know how I would handle NOT being excited over a great pick and roll, ball handling that makes it look oh so easy when we know it's not, a fantastic blocked shot by Tag, or the frustration on an opponent's face when DC has him covered to completely he has to continually pass the ball away.

I hope you can recover your joy. Luckily, I seem to still have mine.

 

[6th]

I'm sorry if you no longer find the Kings exciting, CruzDude... and I mean that in all seriousness. I simply cannot even begin to imagine how it would feel to no longer feel my heart beat with anticipation before the game, to no longer jump from my chair in excitement at a good alley-oop or dunk, to no longer get chills from seeing Pedja put up one of those gorgeous shots from around the popcorn stand. I also don't know how I would handle NOT being excited over a great pick and roll, ball handling that makes it look oh so easy when we know it's not, a fantastic blocked shot by Tag, or the frustration on an opponent's face when DC has him covered to completely he has to continually pass the ball away.

I hope you can recover your joy. Luckily, I seem to still have mine.

***6th does a quick check....takes about 1 nanosecond***


Yep!! Still got mine.

 

[scarlet_steph]

***6th does a quick check....takes about 1 nanosecond***


Yep!! Still got mine.

So do I!

 

[CruzDude]

So I guess the warrior game was "exciting" for you die hards. Blowing 10 and 14 point leads is exciting? There is a little argument coming back from 16 down in the 4th to only 2 but then loosing, again, and at home. Lets drop the word exciting for the moment.

The Kings are not that good. They can't beat good teams at home and the can't beat a mediocre team (lakers) and now they can't beat the bottom of the western barrel at home. What beat them? Athleticism. A bench. More consistency.

Now we are down to a 7-man rotation? What decent or good team in the league does that or has every done well with only a 7-8 man rotation in the first 26 games of the season. I looked and didn't find any this year.

Back to exciting. Sure there are individuals who tonight were exciting: Evans, CWebb were about it. Our def of exciting is a team thing where they play better than the opponent, they outhustle the opponent yet are patient on offensive. Where their fundamental basketball style is a joy to watch in execution. Exciting teams never have to to spectacular dunks.

 

[Bricklayer]

So I guess the warrior game was "exciting" for you die hards. Blowing 10 and 14 point leads is exciting? There is a little argument coming back from 16 down in the 4th to only 2 but then loosing, again, and at home. Lets drop the word exciting for the moment.

The Kings are not that good. They can't beat good teams at home and the can't beat a mediocre team (lakers) and now they can't beat the bottom of the western barrel at home. What beat them? Athleticism. A bench. More consistency.

Now we are down to a 7-man rotation? What decent or good team in the league does that or has every done well with only a 7-8 man rotation in the first 26 games of the season. I looked and didn't find any this year.

Back to exciting. Sure there are individuals who tonight were exciting: Evans, CWebb were about it. Our def of exciting is a team thing where they play better than the opponent, they outhustle the opponent yet are patient on offensive. Where their fundamental basketball style is a joy to watch in execution. Exciting teams never have to to spectacular dunks.

Nobody is saying tonight's game was exciting. Quite the bore in fact until the last few minutes. Has little or nothing to do with whether the team is exciting as a whole this season fro precisely the reason that we did not play tongith as we have played all season.

 

[CruzDude]

On being "worried", rather "concerned"....

I hope you can recover your joy. Luckily, I seem to still have mine.

Well VF21, sorry to say I didn't recover my joy tonight. Sure I'm a die hard Kings fan but I am also realistic and what I have seen the last 10 games hardly gives me an incentive to be upbeat or encouraged.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Uh...that seems to be a pretty narrow definition. I would classify both of the last two games as very exciting games. One we won. One we lost. Was excruciating, but exciting. So were the T-Wolves games for that matter. Great nailbiting throw stuff at the TV games. So was the Dallas series last year. Ho-hum, win a playoff series over the team that knocked you out last year with a whole string of last minute defesnive stands? So was the Minnesota series. Seven game series that comes down to a missed three at the Game 7 buzzer???

Like I say, VERY narrow definition of exciting. Sounds closer to "gratifying" or "easy". But damn, this team as always plays tight games, tight series, scores a lot of points, makes beautiful passes, bombs three pointers...unless you're a dunk fanatic you're going to have a hard time finding a MORE exciting team (not the same thing necessarily as "better"). Perhaps your wife was aiming for "excited about the future prospects". Sounds kind of bandwagony, but I do think that accurately explains the malaise which has stolen the thunder from Arco.

I agree with you here, but I know that some people, and maybe CruzDude's post above mentions this, can only take so much of the excitment when, when the dust settles, you are always on the short end of the stick.

 

[VF21]

CruzDude - You've started a downer "I'm worried" thread after every blasted loss. Why would you do that unless you're hoping for something to turn it around? Or are you just posting it to get other people to be discouraged and defeated?

I'm really curious. I thought you wanted a reason to still believe. If, on the other hand, you just want others to join you in your misery I'll simply quit replying in those threads.

 

[scarlet_steph]

So I guess the warrior game was "exciting" for you die hards. Blowing 10 and 14 point leads is exciting? There is a little argument coming back from 16 down in the 4th to only 2 but then loosing, again, and at home. Lets drop the word exciting for the moment.

The Kings are not that good. They can't beat good teams at home and the can't beat a mediocre team (lakers) and now they can't beat the bottom of the western barrel at home. What beat them? Athleticism. A bench. More consistency.

Now we are down to a 7-man rotation? What decent or good team in the league does that or has every done well with only a 7-8 man rotation in the first 26 games of the season. I looked and didn't find any this year.

Back to exciting. Sure there are individuals who tonight were exciting: Evans, CWebb were about it. Our def of exciting is a team thing where they play better than the opponent, they outhustle the opponent yet are patient on offensive. Where their fundamental basketball style is a joy to watch in execution. Exciting teams never have to to spectacular dunks.

Oh hi! Welcome back! We lost so I was expecting you to be back. Did you have fun? I sure hope you did. Had we won, I would've missed you.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Funny folks keep complaing about Adelman's "7 man rotation" but the way I count it and see it he may now have the luxury of a 9 man rotation. Some how I think once Bobby is back Evans will still get PT and while Tag sattonight beceause of "match ups" I expect to him more and more as well. IN short I am unhappy with the bench and not too worried about Adleman's rotations.

 

[Kingsgurl]

The Kings are not that good. They can't beat good teams at home and the can't beat a mediocre team (lakers) and now they can't beat the bottom of the western barrel at home. What beat them? Athleticism. A bench. More consistency.

Since the Kings 'aren't that good' I fail to see why you act surprised everytime they lose. Shouldn't you be posting a 'Wow! Wasn't that amazing, we actually won!' thread after the games when they manage to pull out a victory instead?

 

[vladetomiller]

Oh hi! Welcome back! We lost so I was expecting you to be back. Did you have fun? I sure hope you did. Had we won, I would've missed you.

I think cruzdude reports the summer camp kings games after driving all the way to LA or fresno or wherever. I dont think he is a fair weather fan, i dont think he is pessimistic and i really think that he is a die hard kings fan who wants the kings to win.

Maybe his analysis of the team or his perception about the team might not be right in our opinion or say everyones opinion, but still i think he is happy when the kings win. He is sad when the kings lose and he needs a place to vent and i think thats why forums exist, to share each other feelings about the team. He does have some good points and i am not sure why we need to shut those issues down. If you leave the pessimistic approach aside, can you answer why RA plays only 7-8 man rotation this early in the year. Can you analyze why Tag gets to play one game and not in the other. That would make things great over here.

Many people believe that i am a laker fan, some believe that i am a spurs fan and some believe that i am a wolves fan. Very few think that i am a kings fan. But i have no doubt that cruzdude is a kings fan and he is not a fairweather fan. Anyone who has the time and energy to drive a long way to go and watch summer games must really be a good fan.

 

[CruzDude]

Frustration is what you are seeing....

CruzDude - You've started a downer "I'm worried" thread after every blasted loss. Why would you do that unless you're hoping for something to turn it around? Or are you just posting it to get other people to be discouraged and defeated?

I'm really curious. I thought you wanted a reason to still believe. If, on the other hand, you just want others to join you in your misery I'll simply quit replying in those threads.

Firstly, I've never expoused discouraging or defeated in the Kings or my attitude in anything. Not my style. Second, I'm not miserable at all. I played college ball and am a student of the game, liking the details, the nuances, the back door plays, 30 assist games and a good game, whether it be the Kings or anyone else.

My meaning of "worried" is Frustration. For all the years I've been on the site I've never been "down" on the Kings but rather realistic at what I am seeing on the tube. The "I'm worried" thread has gotten taken out of context.

Worried that they are not making progress as the new season moves on. In the past 5 seasons after 25 games they are usually in first place in the west or nearly so. This year PHX, SEA and SPURS have begun to run off from the rest of the west. We and MINN are 4 and 5 but fading not progressing. That is a worry.

Is it coaching the hand dealt? is it owners being more budget minded? Is it players who after 5 and 6 years together just can't quite make it to the top? I'm worried because I'm spoiled. When first attending games in 1989 and getting season tickets in 1991 I went to every game and cheered when I could. But I backed them as I do now. Being worried is a natural process for a real fan. So don't jump on a choice of words and miss the reality of what we are all seeing the Kings do.

There is a cycle of performance in every sport. The Kings were on a steep up cycle to 2002. Then the injuries in 2003-04 and the struggle missing two key pieces to the team at critical times. Now a curious start to 2004-05. We are just not seeing what we did in previous years.

One final thought. I am not worried after losses. I first posted the item after a win, in fact near the end of their winning 11 of 13. I began to worry at the way they were winning vs. poor teams. As Yogi Berra once said, "There is no winning ugly, only winning". True unless you saw the Kings barely winning against below 500 teams. Then see the way the Suns or Sonics are winning.

So folks lets get back to reality. The Kings are 17-9 and 2-3 on the recent home stand. The Bricks ratings have been right on. They point up a bit of what worries me. Won't stop me from watching any games or cheering them on. Let's get back to arm chair quarterbacking and how to fix things.

 

[Kingsgurl]

I seriously doubt any amount of armchair coaching is going to turn this team around. Either they find it within themselves to win, or they don't. All it does for us is give us a way to pass the time and make ourselves feel better.
Having the best record at this point in the season has not stood us in good stead yet. Perhaps the team will find it in themselves to pour it on when it matters. They certainly have not, up to this point in the season, played their best ball, or anything approaching their best ball. You could take this as discouraging, or you could take it as something to be a bit encouraged about. This team definitely is capable of playing several levels above even the best effort they have thus far exhibited this year.

 

[VF21]

Firstly, I've never expoused discouraging or defeated in the Kings or my attitude in anything. Not my style. Second, I'm not miserable at all. I played college ball and am a student of the game, liking the details, the nuances, the back door plays, 30 assist games and a good game, whether it be the Kings or anyone else.

My meaning of "worried" is Frustration. For all the years I've been on the site I've never been "down" on the Kings but rather realistic at what I am seeing on the tube. The "I'm worried" thread has gotten taken out of context.

Worried that they are not making progress as the new season moves on. In the past 5 seasons after 25 games they are usually in first place in the west or nearly so. This year PHX, SEA and SPURS have begun to run off from the rest of the west. We and MINN are 4 and 5 but fading not progressing. That is a worry.

Is it coaching the hand dealt? is it owners being more budget minded? Is it players who after 5 and 6 years together just can't quite make it to the top? I'm worried because I'm spoiled. When first attending games in 1989 and getting season tickets in 1991 I went to every game and cheered when I could. But I backed them as I do now. Being worried is a natural process for a real fan. So don't jump on a choice of words and miss the reality of what we are all seeing the Kings do.

There is a cycle of performance in every sport. The Kings were on a steep up cycle to 2002. Then the injuries in 2003-04 and the struggle missing two key pieces to the team at critical times. Now a curious start to 2004-05. We are just not seeing what we did in previous years.

One final thought. I am not worried after losses. I first posted the item after a win, in fact near the end of their winning 11 of 13. I began to worry at the way they were winning vs. poor teams. As Yogi Berra once said, "There is no winning ugly, only winning". True unless you saw the Kings barely winning against below 500 teams. Then see the way the Suns or Sonics are winning.

So folks lets get back to reality. The Kings are 17-9 and 2-3 on the recent home stand. The Bricks ratings have been right on. They point up a bit of what worries me. Won't stop me from watching any games or cheering them on. Let's get back to arm chair quarterbacking and how to fix things.

Okay!

I'm sorry if I mistook your "I'm worried" threads for more than you meant them to be.

I guess I'm a seeker of balance. To me, while there are things to be worried about, there are also things to be encouraged about. One of those is the fantastic recovery by Chris Webber. Another is the better-than-we-expected performance of Tag. Still another is the surprising - at least to me - athleticism of Mo Evans.

And yes, I am concerned but I think most of the team's problems are fixable. I don't agree with some people who are convinced it's time to dump Adelman, trade away core players, etc. While I know very well that time may indeed come - and sooner rather than later - I find myself hoping against hope that they will, in fact, learn from what's happening now and have it fixed within a reasonable period of time.