New Trade

[DaMan]

My opinion on this whole shareef/thomas thing is that it well be settled in the offseason, because we are winning now and there is no time to change anything. This whole thing will be settled in the offseason when the faith of RA is dealt with. If RA stays or we go with a coach that likes to run, i think thomas will stay because he fits the system better, he does the dirty work, and doesn't need the ball to be effective another words he is just a role player. But if we change the coach and go with a more convectionaly offence i think we will go with sar and use his pure offence more then we do now. I really don't see the two coexiting together next season, they are both players that want to start. Thomas showed this earlier in the season by complaining and sar came here thinking that he would start and go to the playoffs, if he wanted to ride the bench i think he would have went to SA where i am positive that he would be in the playoffs. Anyway this trade that i am purposing is ineffect that we stay with RA or a RA type coach:

The bulls get:
SAR

The kings get:
Andres Nocioni and Chris Duhon

The bulls do this because they get a great post player that they badly needed to go along with there young great backcourt players they have.

The kings do this because they get a good backup pg in duhon and get Nocioni who is a pretty decent backup PF/SF.

In effect i would want the kings just to let bonzi go and let Martin take the reins. And use the money that we were going to sign him with and get a center like Joel from portland.

 

[Kings113]

I dig that deal, especially getting Chris Duhon. Don't think it's legit Nocioni's a back-up PF though. He's used there when the Bulls go small (as in smaller than other teams do). I love Nocioni, but don't know where he'd fit if we still have Bonzi or Monia (I ultimately don't think he's trade bait) or both.

Don't think it'd be the first deal I'd do for SAR though.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

SAR is a bargain at the mid level. if we were to move him, we should package him w/ corliss and get a different player.

 

[LPKingsFan]

It would shore up our bench on a number of levels, namely that Duhon could fill the Bobby 1/2 role, and Nocioni with the 3/4 Hedo role. Of course, the still glaring hole is in the Pollard/Keon 4/5 spot. Ideally one could swing a Bonzi trade for that, but easier said than done.

 

[MrBiggs]

Nocioni would be great.

But Duhon would struggle in this offense just like Jason Hart. He's more of a playmaker and our PG off the bench should be a high tempo guy who can and will shoot the rock.

 

[nbrans]

I don't really see what the Kings would do with Nocioni, unless it meant trading Garcia. Duhon is Hart-lite. And if the Kings are going to trade SAR they'd better get a big man in return, unless you like the idea of Potapenko backing up KT and Miller.

 

[MrBiggs]

I don't really see what the Kings would do with Nocioni, unless it meant trading Garcia. Duhon is Hart-lite. And if the Kings are going to trade SAR they'd better get a big man in return, unless you like the idea of Potapenko backing up KT and Miller.

I'm not for trading Sar but I'm definately up to the idea of getting Nocioni. Hopefully, Petrie can convince the Paxton that Kenny Thomas' rebounding presence is exactly what the Bulls need.

As far as what Nocioni can bring to the Kings, he's a 6'7" tweener forward. With Garcia spending so much time at guard, Nocioni can receive a lot of minutes at either forward spot. The dude is a crazy agressive defender. He's neutralized LBJ in the past and even gave Ron Artest fits. He's exactly what we could use off of the bench and he creates mix matches at power forward. Not to mention he's pretty athletic as well.

 

[Kings113]

Nocioni would be great.

But Duhon would struggle in this offense just like Jason Hart. He's more of a playmaker and our PG off the bench should be a high tempo guy who can and will shoot the rock.

Duhon's a decent 3P shooter: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_duhon/index.html . For the first 2 months and change of the season when he was in the starting line-up he showed he was a good scorer, and a consistent shooter.

Good defender, and can hit the floater and slash to the basket well too. Bulls are a perimeter, drive-kick, high-tempo team. Duhon is not Hart-lite, I've watched the Bulls regularly since Jan/Feb of last season.

 

[MrBiggs]

Where's his midrange jumper? The dude his Hart-lite. He's a great fit for the Bulls, let's keep him there.

 

[Kings113]

He's not Hart-lite, he's much better than Hart in just about every area except for height and years in pro-ball. I've seen Duhon hit a bunch of mid-range jumpers before, but usually takes the three. This stuff is just what I've gathered from watching the Bulls, and stand by it.

Duhon I utlimately think becomes the odd-PG out in Chicago, and gets traded eventually, no matter how much Skiles loves him.

 

[ForlornKing]

Bulls hang up the phone.

There was a rumored deal for Drew Gooden for Duhon.

So you want Noicoini(with tremendous upside, already a great 3-point shooter and physical defender) and Duhon for SAR?

Of course it's great for the Kings but you really gotta look at the other team's perspective.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If SAR is content with being 6th man I'd prefer we keep him as such and try to move Bonzi and KT for a big time PF.

But I'd really like to see how the rest of the season plays out and how we do in the playoffs and draft before making any major moves. I sort of like the team we have right now based on their recent play.

 

[DaMan]

Bulls hang up the phone.

There was a rumored deal for Drew Gooden for Duhon.

So you want Noicoini (with tremendous upside, already a great 3-point shooter and physical defender) and Duhon for SAR?

Of course it's great for the Kings but you really gotta look at the other team's perspective.

I have looked at the bulls situation and this would be an ideal trade for them. The bulls have a need for a pf in the low post that could score such as sar, to go along side chandler. And that Drew Gooden trade makes now sense because Drew is lesser vison of Tyson, a man that could rebound but has a bad post game. And the bulls have many of those types of players such as Sweenty and Allen.

And Noicoini is a good player but just like duhon, there is no room for him. With the starting lineup set, expect for Pf, and songailia, allen, sweenty and harrington on the bench and a need for a proven low post player makes Noicoini, who is not even on the same level with sar, expendable.

With a starting lineup of Kirk, Gordon, Deng, SAR, and Tyson this would make chicago a playoff team in the weak east. So there is a big chance that the bulls would do this.

 

[DaMan]

If SAR is content with being 6th man I'd prefer we keep him as such and try to move Bonzi and KT for a big time PF.

But I'd really like to see how the rest of the season plays out and how we do in the playoffs and draft before making any major moves. I sort of like the team we have right now based on their recent play.

Thats the problem if sar was content with riding the bench i think he would have signed with the spurs, miami or some other team which he knew would be a shoe in for the playoffs. The lone reason that he came to the kings was to start and make the playoffs.

I totally agree to wait til the end of the season to make moves but its obvious that somethings needs to be done because we are going to have 2 starting pf wanting to start and needs at the other positions, such as a def pf and a back pg. So something needs to be done to settle the situation.

 

[Kings113]

If SAR is content with being 6th man I'd prefer we keep him as such and try to move Bonzi and KT for a big time PF.

But I'd really like to see how the rest of the season plays out and how we do in the playoffs and draft before making any major moves. I sort of like the team we have right now based on their recent play.

Mostly agreed.

 

[SacKings4Life21]

I really like this trade rumor. IT make alot of good sense for us. It really makes us deep to trade SAR and bring in 2 solid defenders with a role player mindset. I would be for it... but the problem is that that doesnt really make our team more talented. It makes us deeper, and better defenders ( I LIKE Noicioni) but we relaistically need a big presence at PF. If we put a Tall and long defensive presence at PF 6'10+ we could contend. I like having ROn the general, but he needs a pippen. Bibby can carry alot of scoring... especially if we have a big man down low. Now I like Pryzbilla but can he score? and will he take a mid level exception? Can he even play PF? Other guyz like Griffin and Ty chan, are locked up in teams that we would need to trade for. I do liek the SAR trade thought...

 

[Kings113]

Well, it's not a rumor, but a proposal by DaMan.

Eddie Griffin is not locked up at all: http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

Plus he has been out of Casey's rotation since mid-January/the Boston trade. Who knows if he's even kept around because of that.

Chandler, is indeed locked up with a big contract. I doubt we could get him, considering the Bulls lack of size with him.

Pryzbilla I can't really see getting the MLE, and Portland probably won't be re-signing him. No he can't play PF, and not much of a scorer either.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Thats the problem if sar was content with riding the bench i think he would have signed with the spurs, miami or some other team which he knew would be a shoe in for the playoffs. The lone reason that he came to the kings was to start and make the playoffs.

On some of those teams he might not get many minutes at all which isn't exactly the same as being a vital cog without being a starter. Reef seems to be handling that role a lot better than KT who just can't get over some mental issue he has if he doesn't start.

The main problem I see though is that we don't really need guards and small forwards as much as we need another legitimate big guy. Since there is more talent at the 4 than the 5 spot that would the obvious place to look but if Kenny doesn't start his game disappears so we need to move him before we acquire anyone worthy of starting over him even if he has a much more difficult contract than Reef.

 

[DaMan]

On some of those teams he might not get many minutes at all which isn't exactly the same as being a vital cog without being a starter. Reef seems to be handling that role a lot better than KT who just can't get over some mental issue he has if he doesn't start.

The main problem I see though is that we don't really need guards and small forwards as much as we need another legitimate big guy. Since there is more talent at the 4 than the 5 spot that would the obvious place to look but if Kenny doesn't start his game disappears so we need to move him before we acquire anyone worthy of starting over him even if he has a much more difficult contract than Reef.

We do have a need at backup point guard and the problem is where do we find this more talent pf or center the only, person i could think of is joel from portland who is a great def minded center.

 

[Kings113]

Brad/Joel I don't really know about for a couple reasons.... I'd rather get one of Griffin/Battie/Elson/Mohammed to compliment Brad. Preferably Eddie Griffin.

I still want to see Sampson get some minutes this season. He can rebound well and block shots as he showed in Charlotte, and is athletic. Even isn't bad in the post, from what I've read.

Back-up PG, if it's not gonna be Hart or Price (not saying Price is gone), which I basically doubt, make it one of these guys:

Charlie Bell
Speedy Claxton (FA)
Keyon Dooling
Chris Duhon
Mike James (wishful thinking, will be an FA, he'll get signed by a contender/Toronto/Atlanta most likely)

All are good scorers, have a legit jumpshot (Speedy's is decent), athletic, have point-guard skills, and can defend. Also I'd say any of them would be similar in ways to Bobby Jackson.

 

[kingkung]

a contender/Toronto/Atlanta

Hooray for oxymorons!!!

 

[Kings113]

all 3 seperate obviously

 

[TheRaven]

To the origional deal proposed - Petrie would have to be arrested for theft. If your going to trade one of our undersized PF's though, lets keep Shareef and trade Thomas for whatever we can get. Shareef has a very reasonable MLE deal, while Thomas has a large contract that definately doesn't fit his value.

Whichever one stays should be a backup to whatever PF we end up getting via draft or trade anyway, so why not go with the cheaper one.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We do have a need at backup point guard

I agree that we are thin here but if we're going to trade one of our top players I'd hope we'd net a quality starter in return and not a backup. We can sign a decent backup PG without making a trade, we just made a bad choice this year.

 

[DaMan]

To the origional deal proposed - Petrie would have to be arrested for theft. If your going to trade one of our undersized PF's though, lets keep Shareef and trade Thomas for whatever we can get. Shareef has a very reasonable MLE deal, while Thomas has a large contract that definately doesn't fit his value.

Whichever one stays should be a backup to whatever PF we end up getting via draft or trade anyway, so why not go with the cheaper one.

The problem is that neither wants to ride the bench and both what to start. While thomas is a bench/role player, sar is a starter and it would would take an allstar or 20 and 10/9 type player to make him be forced off the the bench. The problem with sar is that he is not a role player and he needs the ball to be succeful, which slows down the offence for us. But the system we play right now fits thomas game he doesn't need to do any thing but play solid d, get ready for a j if open, and get the rebounds and putbacks. Like i said before the future of shareef, thomas and maybe even Brad depends on what we do with RA.

And also this trade would not be a major steal for the kings, rather even. In a recent article in one of their local papers, they said the bulls in the offseason will be looking for a low post scoring big man via trade and f/a and low post scorer like shareef could fill that bill. In past games, and todays, they have no body down in the paint that could score and their big man together in tonights game, if i remember correctly only had 11 points. That is really sad and its been happening all season long. Geting sar would erase that problem very easily, i would expect him to go back to his old form of 20 and 8. Just for the simple fact that eddie curry avg 16 pts in that system, as a more talented and experienced post scorer i would expect sar to get aleast 18. And Duhun and Noicioni could be very easily replaced because as of right now the bulls have 2 picks (their owns and the knicks unprotected pick, god the knicks are stuiped) and i think 16 millon dollars in cap space to resign their young core of kirk, deng, and gordon and sign a free agent, so this deal would be pretty good not a steal for either team.

 

[DaMan]

I agree that we are thin here but if we're going to trade one of our top players I'd hope we'd net a quality starter in return and not a backup. We can sign a decent backup PG without making a trade, we just made a bad choice this year.

I totally agree. But i just can't think of a starter, most likely a bigman, who would be avablie during the offseason that we could trade for other then drew gooden and joel. And that would have to be in a sign and trade because they are both free agents. So if we can't do that i would rather make a trade that would improve our bench.

 

[Kings113]

I totally agree. But i just can't think of a starter, most likely a bigman, who would be avablie during the offseason that we could trade for other then drew gooden and joel. And that would have to be in a sign and trade because they are both free agents. So if we can't do that i would rather make a trade that would improve our bench.

Eddie Griffin is not locked up at all: http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

Plus he has been out of Casey's rotation since mid-January/the Boston trade. Who knows if he's even kept around because of that.

Also:


Tony Battie (FA)
Francisco Elson (FA)
Nazr Mohammed (FA)


I still like Eddie Griffin the best.

 

[DaMan]

Also:


Tony Battie (FA)
Francisco Elson (FA)
Nazr Mohammed (FA)


I still like Eddie Griffin the best.

Battie and Mohammed are the only two on that list that i could see as starters in this leauge but all are more suitalbe as bench players. And Eddie Griffin has alot of talent but there are many reasons why he has been buried deep in the bench in minn and been on so many teams he reminds me of kawam Brown, a man with alot talent but doesn't know how to use it.

 

[Kings113]

Other than the Boston guys arriving and him not having his shot this year, why hasn't Griffin been playing much since the trade? I must of missed something. Eddie's been on two teams his whole career, Rockets/Wolves.

Griffin certainly had a good season in 04/05, and the first 2 1/2 months of this season (aside from his shot disappearing) as well. Hasn't been in trouble either - from what I've read anyways, and read a couple NBA news sites almost daily.

I disagree on them all being more suitable as bench players but Elson.

 

[DaMan]

Other than the Boston guys arriving and him not having his shot this year, why hasn't Griffin been playing much since the trade? I must of missed something. Eddie's been on two teams his whole career, Rockets/Wolves.

Griffin certainly had a good season in 04/05, and the first 2 1/2 months of this season (aside from his shot disappearing) as well. Hasn't been in trouble either - from what I've read anyways, and read a couple NBA news sites almost daily.

I disagree on them all being more suitable as bench players but Elson.

He signed with the nets but never played a min and he had run ins with the law when he played for houston and maybe nj.

None of thoes guys on the list, expect for Nazr, every avg more then 8 pts and 6 rebounds and this year every body on your list avg at least 8pts and 6 rebounds or less, those are not starter numbers. Your right Griffin is the best out of the list because he is younger and has great blocking abilty but he is a bench player at best.