NCAA Basketball about to go Boom

#1
Put this in the Personnel moves because it could affect draft stocks.

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-co...hes-top-programs-lottery-picks-224417174.html

“This goes a lot deeper in college basketball than four corrupt assistant coaches,” said a source who has been briefed on the details of the case. “When this all comes out, Hall of Fame coaches should be scared, lottery picks won’t be eligible to play and almost half of the 16 teams the NCAA showed on its initial NCAA tournament show this weekend should worry about their appearance being vacated.”
So how bad could be it? In terms of NCAA rules, multiple sources told Yahoo Sports that the material obtained threatens the fundamental structure and integrity of the sport, as there’s potentially as many 50 college basketball programs that could end up compromised in some way.
This could get ugly.
 
#2
This is kindof like cyclists doping in that we all know it's going on. It's just the specifics of who is doing what and how much they're doing that are murky. It'll be interesting to see if anything actually changes as a result of this or they just dish out some symbolic penalties (vacated wins and the like) and then business continues as normal.
 
#3
This is kindof like cyclists doping in that we all know it's going on. It's just the specifics of who is doing what and how much they're doing that are murky. It'll be interesting to see if anything actually changes as a result of this or they just dish out some symbolic penalties (vacated wins and the like) and then business continues as normal.
It's a federal investigation not an NCAA or governing board. People will be going to prison.
 
#5
I'll believe it when I see it for the second round. Lots of moving parts, but I have no doubt in mind that many top colleges are involved in shady recruiting.
 
#6
eh, i just dont see it because they'd have to shut it ALL down and lose Billions. lol not happening

you'd have to punish soooo many people
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#7
eh, i just dont see it because they'd have to shut it ALL down and lose Billions. lol not happening

you'd have to punish soooo many people
I don't think some of you quite understand. This isn't the NCAA investigating something. This is the FBI investigating, and probably indicting people. When you get indicted, you probably go to trial, and if convicted, you go to jail. This isn't the good old boys club. This is serious business dealing with bribery and payoffs. It's about breaking federal law, not some NCAA rule.
 
#8
I don't think some of you quite understand. This isn't the NCAA investigating something. This is the FBI investigating, and probably indicting people. When you get indicted, you probably go to trial, and if convicted, you go to jail. This isn't the good old boys club. This is serious business dealing with bribery and payoffs. It's about breaking federal law, not some NCAA rule.
Charges were dropped in the Louisville case earlier nothing legal wise will happen here
 
#9
Charges were dropped in the Louisville case earlier nothing legal wise will happen here
Are you saying if federal laws were broken that people should not be held accountable? Or are you just saying that nothing will be done?

Just seems like an odd stance you are taking and I find it confusing.
 
#11
There are serial killers running loose, mass shootings, terrorism and all sorts of horrors going on in the world.

Thank god the FBI is focusing on the important things like kids wearing expensive sneakers and algebra test scores.
 

Capt. Factorial

Cantry Member
Staff member
#12
I read the article...doesn't say exactly what has happened. Is it players taking money? What is the root of the problem?
Yeah, it's basically players taking money from agents/shoe companies with college coaches (usual accusations so far have been assistant coaches) in the mix sometimes as the go-between. There are only a handful of specific allegations that have been made public so far. The implication is that there are a lot more to come.

Are you saying if federal laws were broken that people should not be held accountable? Or are you just saying that nothing will be done?

Just seems like an odd stance you are taking and I find it confusing.
From my point of view, I'm not entirely sure what federal laws might have been broken. Certainly it is not the job of the federal government to enforce NCAA rules, so that's not it. It appears that the typical defense here for the parties being charged is not that they didn't do what they've been accused of doing, but that what they've done doesn't violate any laws. People have thrown around the bribery word, but I think that's like paying politicians for favorable government treatment, not sweetening the pot on college players in the hope that they will sign with your agency or shoe company. They have also said "wire fraud", which is "any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication", and that doesn't really seem to apply either.

So I don't really know what angle the Feds have to stick actual violations of actual federal law on the defendants right now. Maybe something will clear up later on that. That said, this stuff is clearly NCAA violations. Then the question becomes how widespread it turns out to be. If you've got maybe 10 programs with dirty knowledge/action on the parts of the coaching staffs, then the NCAA can probably bring down the hammer. If you've got 100 programs...the NCAA might have to actually give up on it's dishonest "student-athlete" model and figure out how to make college sports work on a different financial model.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#13
Yeah, it's basically players taking money from agents/shoe companies with college coaches (usual accusations so far have been assistant coaches) in the mix sometimes as the go-between. There are only a handful of specific allegations that have been made public so far. The implication is that there are a lot more to come.



From my point of view, I'm not entirely sure what federal laws might have been broken. Certainly it is not the job of the federal government to enforce NCAA rules, so that's not it. It appears that the typical defense here for the parties being charged is not that they didn't do what they've been accused of doing, but that what they've done doesn't violate any laws. People have thrown around the bribery word, but I think that's like paying politicians for favorable government treatment, not sweetening the pot on college players in the hope that they will sign with your agency or shoe company. They have also said "wire fraud", which is "any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication", and that doesn't really seem to apply either.

So I don't really know what angle the Feds have to stick actual violations of actual federal law on the defendants right now. Maybe something will clear up later on that. That said, this stuff is clearly NCAA violations. Then the question becomes how widespread it turns out to be. If you've got maybe 10 programs with dirty knowledge/action on the parts of the coaching staffs, then the NCAA can probably bring down the hammer. If you've got 100 programs...the NCAA might have to actually give up on it's dishonest "student-athlete" model and figure out how to make college sports work on a different financial model.
Yeah, I think the point is, we don't know! But the FBI doesn't get involved in something like this unless it involves federal law. So far, they're keeping it close to their vest. To be honest, I'm surprised that we've heard as much as we have. Usually you don't hear a peep out of them until they come knocking on your door in the middle of the night with a warrant.
 
#14
Yeah, I think the point is, we don't know! But the FBI doesn't get involved in something like this unless it involves federal law. So far, they're keeping it close to their vest. To be honest, I'm surprised that we've heard as much as we have. Usually you don't hear a peep out of them until they come knocking on your door in the middle of the night with a warrant.
Exactly this. The Feds wouldnt have spent 300+ days wire taping if there wasn't something that falls into their jurisdiction involved. And like you said, thats all we know right now.
 
#15
Yeah, it's basically players taking money from agents/shoe companies with college coaches (usual accusations so far have been assistant coaches) in the mix sometimes as the go-between. There are only a handful of specific allegations that have been made public so far. The implication is that there are a lot more to come.



From my point of view, I'm not entirely sure what federal laws might have been broken. Certainly it is not the job of the federal government to enforce NCAA rules, so that's not it. It appears that the typical defense here for the parties being charged is not that they didn't do what they've been accused of doing, but that what they've done doesn't violate any laws. People have thrown around the bribery word, but I think that's like paying politicians for favorable government treatment, not sweetening the pot on college players in the hope that they will sign with your agency or shoe company. They have also said "wire fraud", which is "any fraudulent scheme to intentionally deprive another of property or honest services via mail or wire communication", and that doesn't really seem to apply either.

So I don't really know what angle the Feds have to stick actual violations of actual federal law on the defendants right now. Maybe something will clear up later on that. That said, this stuff is clearly NCAA violations. Then the question becomes how widespread it turns out to be. If you've got maybe 10 programs with dirty knowledge/action on the parts of the coaching staffs, then the NCAA can probably bring down the hammer. If you've got 100 programs...the NCAA might have to actually give up on it's dishonest "student-athlete" model and figure out how to make college sports work on a different financial model.
Tax evasion for one.

Could go the RICO racketeering route?
 
#16
Considering we've already had college programs that covered up sexual abuse and prostitution and literally nothing happened to them at all other than symbolic (and ultimately hollow) slap on the wrist penalties, I would be very surprised if this goes in a direction where people are convicted and sentenced to jail time for spreading dirty money around. Maybe somebody will but it won't be anyone we know by name. Maybe the FBI is concerned about how much money is involved and where it's coming from and maybe this means the NCAA will pay slightly more attention to recruiting violations in the future. I've heard rumblings... but honestly I don't think anything is going to happen.

I've watched this play out all year at USC already. One of the first people busted by the FBI for taking money was an assistant coach here. De'Anthony Melton was held out all season and eventually declared ineligible (by a University investigation... not by the NCAA) because a friend of his accepted a plane ticket and a hotel room from an agent who tried (unsuccessfully) to give him an envelope full of money with an undercover FBI agent at the table. So far the only guy who's been punished (unjustly I would add) is Melton who didn't even know this meeting took place.

If you consider how much money is involved in professional sports at this point, it's obvious that other people want a piece of that pie isn't it? This kind of corruption will never be eradicated but I guess they can make an example of a few people and that means a few families don't get used and discarded by agents/coaches/sports apparel companies and the like. It's unfortunate that (so-called) adults are taking advantage of kids in pursuit of the almighty dollar but this is the world we live in.
 
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#18
#21
Serious question: how much has the league had to work with the IRS over the years to make sure these guys can pay back taxes and not get hammered with tax evation/tax fraud as soon as they sign their rookie deal? It must take 2-3 years and countless hours of legal assistance to help some of these guys unwind all these shady deals once they hit the league. One wonders if it impacts draftability, especially for the hotseat GM or skinflint owner (ie late Maloof era Kings). Is there more to our lackluster drafting during that period?
 
#22
Serious question: how much has the league had to work with the IRS over the years to make sure these guys can pay back taxes and not get hammered with tax evation/tax fraud as soon as they sign their rookie deal? It must take 2-3 years and countless hours of legal assistance to help some of these guys unwind all these shady deals once they hit the league. One wonders if it impacts draftability, especially for the hotseat GM or skinflint owner (ie late Maloof era Kings). Is there more to our lackluster drafting during that period?
Doesn't impact NBA/teams unless the payments continued during the NBA playing days.
 
#23
Considering we've already had college programs that covered up sexual abuse and prostitution and literally nothing happened to them at all other than symbolic (and ultimately hollow) slap on the wrist penalties, I would be very surprised if this goes in a direction where people are convicted and sentenced to jail time for spreading dirty money around. Maybe somebody will but it won't be anyone we know by name. Maybe the FBI is concerned about how much money is involved and where it's coming from and maybe this means the NCAA will pay slightly more attention to recruiting violations in the future. I've heard rumblings... but honestly I don't think anything is going to happen.

I've watched this play out all year at USC already. One of the first people busted by the FBI for taking money was an assistant coach here. De'Anthony Melton was held out all season and eventually declared ineligible (by a University investigation... not by the NCAA) because a friend of his accepted a plane ticket and a hotel room from an agent who tried (unsuccessfully) to give him an envelope full of money with an undercover FBI agent at the table. So far the only guy who's been punished (unjustly I would add) is Melton who didn't even know this meeting took place.

If you consider how much money is involved in professional sports at this point, it's obvious that other people want a piece of that pie isn't it? This kind of corruption will never be eradicated but I guess they can make an example of a few people and that means a few families don't get used and discarded by agents/coaches/sports apparel companies and the like. It's unfortunate that (so-called) adults are taking advantage of kids in pursuit of the almighty dollar but this is the world we live in.
If we're being honest, there's probably a solid chance there's other things on Melton. No one is coming out of this clean..
 
#24
Doesn't impact NBA/teams unless the payments continued during the NBA playing days.
How could it not? These guys are taking six figures. Are these structured as no interest loans? How do they avoid detection by the NCAA/AD Compliance and yet stay right with the IRS? Even the five figure amounts would get your bank’s attention and get highlighted to the feds. We’re not talking about super-sophisticated hedge fund managers with multiple pass through corporations here. These are jocks, ex-jock agents who may or may not have a little law school behind them (probably not if they are heavy into the basketball side), and PE-major college head coaches. I’m saying, teams are having to unwind this stuff when these kids hit the league, and its a migraine to deal with organizationally. BTW, as a Kings fan, you should know this most definitely DOES have an impact well into their NBA careers.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#25
Lonzo Ball on today’s Yahoo! report: “Everybody knows everybody’s getting paid. That’s how it is. If everybody’s getting paid anyway might as well make it legal.”

Whoa. Anybody else think that's pretty close to an admission? I think Lonzo needs to keep his mouth shut. Here we thought it was just his dad...
 
#26
Lonzo Ball on today’s Yahoo! report: “Everybody knows everybody’s getting paid. That’s how it is. If everybody’s getting paid anyway might as well make it legal.”

Whoa. Anybody else think that's pretty close to an admission? I think Lonzo needs to keep his mouth shut. Here we thought it was just his dad...
Oh, that’s a calculated payback to Alford and UCLA. They’re still mad about LiAngelo. Ironically, Lonzo probably is cool as far as taxes goes because I am sure his dad would, in theory, accept whatever hypothetical payments as services rendered from one of his companies. So, Lonzo can say whatever he wants and the only folks that get hurt are Alford and the UCLA AD. At least Chip Kelly is completely above board...oh wait.
 
#27
Lonzo Ball all but admitting he took money to go to UCLA is bigger news than anything else I've read so far. There's a Yahoo article claiming Miles Bridges accepted a free dinner from an agent which makes the whole thing look like a joke but then ESPN today claims they have Sean Miller on tape offering DeAndre Ayton 100 grand to play for Arizona for a year. Maybe there's more to this. The agents throwing money at players I expected. That's never going to stop. But if college coaches at major programs are directly paying one and dones into 6 figures that's news that could damage reputations. Arizona has been landing every top player from Southern California for years and this could explain why. I'm dying to find out if Marvin Bagley got paid to go to Duke now. Squeaky clean Coach K buying blue chippers for years is legacy destroying material.
 
#29
So to clarify, Lonzo's position is "everybody is taking money... except for me" I think the first part of that statement is more telling than the second part. He's already a professional athlete in the NBA so he's in the clear either way. The casualness with which he shrugs and accepts that this happens all the time though is actually a pretty significant admission. That doesn't sound secondhand. He knows multiple people who got paid and probably how much they got paid. It might be every one of the top 50 guys in each high school class.
 
#30
Nobody is going to jail
You apparently have never gone through corporate ethics training on the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and the U.K. anti-bribery act.

Taking someone to lunch is not a violation. Paying someone to steer business, as these agents/coaches have done, is a clear violation of the laws and people have already gone to jail for violating these laws in other businesses. Companies have paid 100 of millions in fines for violating these laws.

https://www.business-anti-corruptio...egislation/fcpa-foreign-corrupt-practices-act

Despite the Foreign in the title you can’t pay bribes to steer business in the US either.
 
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