Meanwhile Justin Williams is........

Entity

Hall of Famer
putting up numbers that no other PF on our team can close to. He has 14pts 17reb and 1 block in 33 min and 4 shot altering plays that i can think of. of play. He is coming off the bench but, the competion is better than the NBDL. He is still a rookie and has loads of potenial as to what he could become. KT in his last 33 min has 0pts 9reb and 0 blocks. this is against the same competion and KT is supposed to be a vet. If they are going to be used the same way wouldn't the obvious selection be to go with Williams. You would have to go back 95 min to get SAR with 17 rebs. Brad took 70 min to get 17 reb and 1 block. BTW Justin also leads the league right now in reb per 48 min at 23.3. Some said when he was doing in the NBDL it wouldn't translate so far I can't see an argument for that. He could use some work on his freethrows though :D
 
If I remember corectly he made his FT's in the pre-season.

Hopefully it's just the jitters.
 
Justin is doing awesome and is leading the league like you say in rebounds, let alone doing so on one of the sorriest teams to get rebounds. He really needs to work on his free throws, 1 of 8 is well how can I say it, not good. :p I love his intensity. I'm really hoping we unload Pot and/or Taylor with their expiring contracts by the dealine and sign this kid if we haven't already to the rest of the season and beyond. This kid is cheap, good now, has tons of potential, very hungry. I'm so tired of seeing these so called "vets" just going through the motions to get their checks.


Not to give Justin competition, but it would, it would give more competition to SAR, Brad, K9, Taylor, Pot is to get N. Mohammed. The guy obviously doesn't get the playing time in Detroit. How much is this guy getting paid anyways, if I remember right, not much and he just signed with Detroit this offseason as a free agent. I say play him and Justin at C/PF with Brad and we should be good. SAR has had some bad days, but I still like the guy. K9, Taylor, and Pot are trash, clean up the trash GP!

With SAR, Brad, Nazr, Justin we'd have a good offense/defense combo. For example Brad/Nazr at 4/5 to start and SAR and Justin off the bench to relieve them. A guy like Diop would be good too.
 
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Justin is doing awesome and is leading the league like you say in rebounds, let alone doing so on one of the sorriest teams to get rebounds. He really needs to work on his free throws, 1 of 8 is well how can I say it, not good. :p I love his intensity. I'm really hoping we unload Pot and/or Taylor with their expiring contracts by the dealine and sign this kid if we haven't already to the rest of the season and beyond. This kid is cheap, good now, has tons of potential, very hungry. I'm so tired of seeing these so called "vets" just going through the motions to get their checks.


Not to give Justin competition, but it would, it would give more competition to SAR, Brad, K9, Taylor, Pot is to get N. Mohammed. The guy obviously doesn't get the playing time in Detroit. How much is this guy getting paid anyways, if I remember right, not much and he just signed with Detroit this offseason as a free agent. I say play him and Justin at C/PF with Brad and we should be good. SAR has had some bad days, but I still like the guy. K9, Taylor, and Pot are trash, clean up the trash GP!

Maybe you could split that part off to the Personnel Moves section? It just doesn't seem fair to have a discussion about Justin turn into a talk about getting someone else...

:)
 
If I remember corectly he made his FT's in the pre-season.

Hopefully it's just the jitters.

He also hit 58% in the DL.

Wallace, on the other hand, has hit between 30% ('96-'97) and 49% ('03-'04), but it hasn't exactly killed his usefulness as a player.

I'll be happy if Justin keeps the opponent's bigs in foul trouble, and don't care too much about the charity stripe results.
 
Maybe you could split that part off to the Personnel Moves section? It just doesn't seem fair to have a discussion about Justin turn into a talk about getting someone else...

:)

Sorry, totally true. The kid is doing awesome, what else can you ask of him...well maybe convert some "free" throws....but that can be worked on. His shot technique doesn't look too bad, he just needs to get it on target! ;)
 
He also hit 58% in the DL.

Wallace, on the other hand, has hit between 30% ('96-'97) and 49% ('03-'04), but it hasn't exactly killed his usefulness as a player.

I'll be happy if Justin keeps the opponent's bigs in foul trouble, and don't care too much about the charity stripe results.

We need rebounding and shot blocking...and just some effort and Justin brings this to a great degree. He does need to get better at hitting his free throws, but I think he has definately proven in limited minutes that he belongs in the NBA and on this team. I'm so happy we brought him back. It's also nice he's from Chicago! Way to go JWill2! :D

Didn't he play in high school or some organized basketball before college with Eddie Currie who is also from Chicago? That's cool. Wonder if Eddie was as big and bullied Justin with his size, but Justin got back at him with his cat like reflexes and quickness!
 
as far as i'm concerned we should sign him immediately. he'll be able to build a house with all his bricks from the free throw line, but it doesn't matter. that's not what he's for. he was brought here because of his ability to rebound and block shots. and what is he doing in his couple minutes a game? rebounding and blocking/altering shots. i dont care if he sticks a finger up his butt every time he goes to the line. he does what he's supposed to do and he's been pretty consistent. i wish i could say the same for Bibby and Artest
 
I left off the toronto game i am sorry so he actually has played 37 min but he got 2 more rebounds so put him at 19 reb in 37 min.
 
putting up numbers that no other PF on our team can close to. He has 14pts 17reb and 1 block in 33 min and 4 shot altering plays that i can think of.

Those numbers are meaningless. Being able to play hard for an 8 minute stretch isn't the same as playing a game.

Plus, this kid isn't as frustrated as our core. He's just excited to be out there and is playing with gusto. Everyone else either doesn't care or would rather be in any other uniform.
 
Everyone else either doesn't care or would rather be in any other uniform.

It's true that the only guys who are playing like they're worth their pay are a couple of bench guys and some who are on rookie contracts, but I don't think that's a very strong argument against Justin, or Kevin, or Ronnie, or Corliss, or anyone else who still plays like they care. More like it's a strong argument against everyone on the team who makes over $6.5m a year.

Possible coaching implications I'll leave for other threads.

They should all be playing like they're hungry, not like $50,000/hr. zombies.

Justin's just doing what he needs to be doing. If his numbers drop by a third when he's playing 25 minutes a game, he'll still be our best option for rebounds, by a wide margin.

I don't think he's the second coming of Wilt or anything, but for a guy who can't even hope to use up 0.5% of our payroll, he's looking like one of the few great bargains on the roster.
 
I appreciate Williams' athleticism and energy and hustle, but man, he is so clumsy. He's already committed far more than his share of "and one" fouls, he has bad hands, and he's still pretty clueless. His hustle is a breath of fresh air on a comatose team, he's a great bargain, but I don't think we need to get out of hand about his impact and potential.
 
Those numbers are meaningless. Being able to play hard for an 8 minute stretch isn't the same as playing a game.

Plus, this kid isn't as frustrated as our core. He's just excited to be out there and is playing with gusto. Everyone else either doesn't care or would rather be in any other uniform.


You're saying that like it's a bad thing.:confused:
 
he's still pretty clueless.


That's to be expected considering he's only played, what, 20 minutes so far in his career?

Kevin Martin looked lost his entire rookie season. Last I checked we were all glad we didn't give up on him.
~~
 
That's to be expected considering he's only played, what, 20 minutes so far in his career?

Kevin Martin looked lost his entire rookie season. Last I checked we were all glad we didn't give up on him.
~~


Well said, Alacron!!!
 
^
My thoughts exactly, everyone is ready to crown him the next Ben Wallace, he'll be lucky to be half that.

Half a Ben Wallace still beats a whole KT.

And when it comes to matchups at center, when I think of Corliss defending Yao Ming I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
 
Half a Ben Wallace still beats a whole KT

Interesting that people still bag on KT, yet he was the starting PF during our best basketball of the year along with SAR at C.

I know everyone at the time said that it was the teams we were playing and had every excuse in the world as to why SAR/KT wasn't one of the reasons we were doing well ... but the simple fact is, we can't beat those teams now. In fact, those same teams are killing us.

Brad Miller *IS* one of our biggest problems. Not KT.
KT tries on defense. Miller does not.
KT tries to rebound. Miller does not.

We wouldn't be world beaters with KT out there, but this constant scapegoating is just silly.

As for Williams, the guy hasn't really showed me much other than that he can leap really quick. He looks confused on defense and worse on offense (granted, we've got Beavis at coach) ... I think he's got more of a chance of being Stromile Swift than he does of being half of Ben Wallace.
 
Interesting that people still bag on KT, yet he was the starting PF during our best basketball of the year along with SAR at C.

I know everyone at the time said that it was the teams we were playing and had every excuse in the world as to why SAR/KT wasn't one of the reasons we were doing well ... but the simple fact is, we can't beat those teams now. In fact, those same teams are killing us.

Brad Miller *IS* one of our biggest problems. Not KT.
KT tries on defense. Miller does not.
KT tries to rebound. Miller does not.


We wouldn't be world beaters with KT out there, but this constant scapegoating is just silly.

As for Williams, the guy hasn't really showed me much other than that he can leap really quick. He looks confused on defense and worse on offense (granted, we've got Beavis at coach) ... I think he's got more of a chance of being Stromile Swift than he does of being half of Ben Wallace.

i never understood this line of thinking. both brad miller and kenny thomas add to the kings problems more than they detract from the kings problems. BOTH of them. hell...throw SAR into the mix as well. the ENTIRE kings front court is a problem. so, scapegoat them all, i say. i don't understand the constant bandwagoning of such mediocre friggin' players. why bother coming to the defense of KT or SAR or brad miller? none of these guys is playing worth a damn. i think brad miller has the most value of the three, but who cares? that ain't sayin' much. all of them need to go in order for the kings to have any kind of success in the front court...on defense and offense. we know what those three guys bring, and it stinks of mediocrity. justin williams, on the other hand, shows youth and potential. we don't know what he can bring yet. i don't think anyone can legitimately say that he'll be "half a ben wallace" or "the next stromile swift," because he just hasn't seen the court time for that kinda judgement. but if the kings are gonna lose, then they might as well bank on youth. bank on the future. bank on low-risk, high-reward players like justin williams. if he turns out to be utter and complete crap, no big deal. it cost you next to nothing financially, and it cost you next to nothing on the court, because you were losing games anyway, and there's nothing wrong with prime draft positioning. if he turns out to be a contributor, then it still isn't gonna cost you much financially, and it'll add an energy-type player to an otherwise weak and lifeless frontcourt.
 
As for Williams, the guy hasn't really showed me much other than that he can leap really quick. He looks confused on defense and worse on offense (granted, we've got Beavis at coach) ... I think he's got more of a chance of being Stromile Swift than he does of being half of Ben Wallace.
If he has shown you that he can "leap really quick" then he has showed you much. Actually, he's shown you something that none of us have seen for a long time. Leaping really quick usually means you can rebound and block shots and that's exactly what this team is missing sorely. That's a skill you cannot teach whereas you can teach him the other stuff that will allow him to more effectively use those skills on offense and defense. As far as his confusion on offense and defense goes, he doesn't look anymore confused than the majority of guys putting on a Kings' uniform night in and night out.
 
i never understood this line of thinking. both brad miller and kenny thomas add to the kings problems more than they detract from the kings problems.

No question. But the difference with KT compared to Brad Miller is that the offense needs to be redesigned for Brad Miller when he's in. He cannot play traditional basketball. So, we're forced to play inverted. Our PFs sit out at the top and play as slashers ... which is typically not a strength of a PF.

We don't have to do this with KT. In fact, what's wonderful about KT is that he doesn't really need the ball that often. We've got so many selfish players out there that having one less guy that needs the ball is a good thing.

the ENTIRE kings front court is a problem. so, scapegoat them all, i say. i don't understand the constant bandwagoning of such mediocre friggin' players. why bother coming to the defense of KT or SAR or brad miller? none of these guys is playing worth a damn.

The entire King's front court is the problem? Come on. At least I can say that the majority of them try on both ends of the court (even if they don't come back with great results). There isn't a single backcourt player on our roster that even tries on defense. Salmons USED to try, but that's gone along with his passing.

I'm not bandwagonning any of the players - I'm just saying that to scapegoat KT is silly.

KT is what KT is. He's not a superhuman, but he's going to rebound and he's going to hustle. He's not an offensive player, but with Bibby, SAR, Martin, Artest ... do you need another scorer?

SAR is what SAR is. He's a scorer. When he's used, he produces on both ends (and typically rebounds well). When he's ignored, he loafs around and becomes a non-factor. I've never thought of him as a selfish player, but it's obvious that he's taking himself out of games. I've seen him post up over and over and over only to watch our selfish backcourt drive or put up a contested jumper ... never even passing the ball once. I've seen entire halves go by without going into the post.

Miller is what Miller is. He's not the player he once was. He has no mobility and is basically a seven-foot statue for all intents and purposes. He's a good passer (but can't "create" for anyone) and has a nice jumper when open (of course, it's not what we need). He'd be fine if we didn't have Mike Bibby and Kevin Martin acting like virtual open lanes to the basket.

None of those guys is great. But, scapegoating them as our "big problem" is tired. Our big problem is that we don't use them enough and we've got this massive lack of minutes to go around now that Corliss and JW are part of the squad.

i think brad miller has the most value of the three

Yeah, keep thinking that. If you mean value as in size of the contract ... then yeah, I agree.
 
Facts are facts. Justin's talents lie in certain areas and he has the ability to do things ,whether it be athletic or defensive, that none of the other players in the frontcourt can or will ever do.

On the other hand he may compliment the others very well.
 
No question. But the difference with KT compared to Brad Miller is that the offense needs to be redesigned for Brad Miller when he's in. He cannot play traditional basketball. So, we're forced to play inverted. Our PFs sit out at the top and play as slashers ... which is typically not a strength of a PF.

We don't have to do this with KT. In fact, what's wonderful about KT is that he doesn't really need the ball that often. We've got so many selfish players out there that having one less guy that needs the ball is a good thing.



The entire King's front court is the problem? Come on. At least I can say that the majority of them try on both ends of the court (even if they don't come back with great results). There isn't a single backcourt player on our roster that even tries on defense. Salmons USED to try, but that's gone along with his passing.

I'm not bandwagonning any of the players - I'm just saying that to scapegoat KT is silly.

KT is what KT is. He's not a superhuman, but he's going to rebound and he's going to hustle. He's not an offensive player, but with Bibby, SAR, Martin, Artest ... do you need another scorer?

SAR is what SAR is. He's a scorer. When he's used, he produces on both ends (and typically rebounds well). When he's ignored, he loafs around and becomes a non-factor. I've never thought of him as a selfish player, but it's obvious that he's taking himself out of games. I've seen him post up over and over and over only to watch our selfish backcourt drive or put up a contested jumper ... never even passing the ball once. I've seen entire halves go by without going into the post.

Miller is what Miller is. He's not the player he once was. He has no mobility and is basically a seven-foot statue for all intents and purposes. He's a good passer (but can't "create" for anyone) and has a nice jumper when open (of course, it's not what we need). He'd be fine if we didn't have Mike Bibby and Kevin Martin acting like virtual open lanes to the basket.

None of those guys is great. But, scapegoating them as our "big problem" is tired. Our big problem is that we don't use them enough and we've got this massive lack of minutes to go around now that Corliss and JW are part of the squad.



Yeah, keep thinking that. If you mean value as in size of the contract ... then yeah, I agree.



So KT is great because "he hustles and rebounds" but Justin Williams is bad because "all he can do is jump really well". Um yeah, Justin actually rebounds better than KT. Justin blocks shots better than KT. Justin CARES more than KT. You're here defending Kenny freaking Thomas. The same KT who pouts when he doesn't start, the same KT who glares at the coach when he's taken out of the game. Yet you're saying how Justin isn't that great but he blocks, rebounds, and hustles more than Kenny. He's only a rookie but if you didn't pay attention to free throw shooting you'd easily be able to say that when he's seen the court he's been our best front court player out there(recently). That's why people are excited about him.
 
I appreciate Williams' athleticism and energy and hustle, but man, he is so clumsy. He's already committed far more than his share of "and one" fouls, he has bad hands, and he's still pretty clueless. His hustle is a breath of fresh air on a comatose team, he's a great bargain, but I don't think we need to get out of hand about his impact and potential.

Wha...? Maybe I am watching a different Justin Williams but I think his hands are one of his assets. He doesn't fumble the ball on every play like say a Sam Dalembert would.

As for being clueless. Look at the situation he is in. He is on a team that he gets 8 minutes of game time situation a night (if he's lucky), is still a 22 year old rookie playing against much heavier players, and is trying to fit in on a team where everyone else is just as clueless as he.

I have said it before and will say it again, his impact could be great because he rebounds and blocks shots. The two things we needed the most from a personnel standpoint.
 
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