Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)
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You're kidding me right? Doncic has elite ball handling for his size at age 19. Dunleavy has always been a straight line driver off the catch, very smart pesky player, never a guy you whose either a primary or secondary ball handler. If you want NBA comparisons think Harden/Ginobli, less of a scorer than those guys at this point with the vision, passing, playmaking of a Ben Simmons. Not saying he will be as good as those guys but the ceiling is there. Mike Dunleavy is a lazy comparison that I'm assuming started with finding 6'7 white guys.
Suggesting Bagley or Porter Jr over Doncic is not disrespect. It's just having different opinions. I remember last year on this board when people said Jayson Tatum looked like Toronto Rudy Gay. They said he was too slow to play SF. He was unathletic. He was a meh defender. Why on earth would the Kings take him at #5?
Look at him now. Went #3 overall, probably would've gone #1 overall. Looks like one of the best prospects in this class, and a future ELITE wing.
Remember when some fans here scoffed at him going #5? Or what about fans who scoffed at Donovan Mitchell at #5? I know because I was part of that group.
Suggesting guys over Doncic is not disrespect. People need to be open-minded about this pick. No one is a homerun.
Look at him now. Went #3 overall, probably would've gone #1 overall. Looks like one of the best prospects in this class, and a future ELITE wing.
Remember when some fans here scoffed at him going #5? Or what about fans who scoffed at Donovan Mitchell at #5? I know because I was part of that group.
Suggesting guys over Doncic is not disrespect. People need to be open-minded about this pick. No one is a homerun.
Yeah, um ... no. I've been here just as long as you have I do believe and while there may have been a couple of people enamored of Yi Jianlian, very few thought he was a sure thing.
You're talking as though a few Kings fans are the only ones high on Doncic and that's simply not true. It's a pretty wide-held belief among a LOT of NBA observers that he's got a lot of potential and skills to bring to the NBA.
I think this is more like the Rubio-Evans debates than anything else.
You're talking as though a few Kings fans are the only ones high on Doncic and that's simply not true. It's a pretty wide-held belief among a LOT of NBA observers that he's got a lot of potential and skills to bring to the NBA.
I think this is more like the Rubio-Evans debates than anything else.
He still won’t say much. After Euroleague is over, there is still Spanish league title to win.
I think Fener is a better team and should win their 2nd Euroleague title in a row. Plus I think they will get local support to since their coach is a Serbian coaching legend and they have 3 Serbians on the roster and Vesely who played for Serbian club Partizan.
There is no doubt Real Madrid are underdogs in the final.
I think Fener is a better team and should win their 2nd Euroleague title in a row. Plus I think they will get local support to since their coach is a Serbian coaching legend and they have 3 Serbians on the roster and Vesely who played for Serbian club Partizan.
There is no doubt Real Madrid are underdogs in the final.
Interview with Luka after semifinal win. In serbian, I'll try my best to translate.
Question: What serbian coach and player would you like the most to play for/with?
Answer: About coach, it is hard to tell, obviously Zeljko Obradovic, Sasa Djordjevic, there are many good young coaches. I would like to play with Bogdanovic. We are good friends, he is excellent player, I would learn a lot from him.
- Obradovic is Fenerbachce coach, won euroligue 9 times so far with 4 teams if i remember well.
- Djordjevic is coach of Serbia NT.
- Did not mention Kokoskov, who is also Serbian.
About the game: Hard win. A lot of missed open shots in the 1st quarter. The key was the 2nd quarter, we played better defense, stopped Sergio Rodrigez.
About next game: It will be very hard game. Fener has a greater roster, great coach and many loud fans. It would ba awsome to finish a season with a trophy. After NT EU title with Slovenia it would be another big achievement in my resume.
About his preparation for the game: I have learnt a lot from the last finale I played. I played bellow my standards. I figured out I need better focus.
Question: What serbian coach and player would you like the most to play for/with?
Answer: About coach, it is hard to tell, obviously Zeljko Obradovic, Sasa Djordjevic, there are many good young coaches. I would like to play with Bogdanovic. We are good friends, he is excellent player, I would learn a lot from him.
- Obradovic is Fenerbachce coach, won euroligue 9 times so far with 4 teams if i remember well.
- Djordjevic is coach of Serbia NT.
- Did not mention Kokoskov, who is also Serbian.
About the game: Hard win. A lot of missed open shots in the 1st quarter. The key was the 2nd quarter, we played better defense, stopped Sergio Rodrigez.
About next game: It will be very hard game. Fener has a greater roster, great coach and many loud fans. It would ba awsome to finish a season with a trophy. After NT EU title with Slovenia it would be another big achievement in my resume.
About his preparation for the game: I have learnt a lot from the last finale I played. I played bellow my standards. I figured out I need better focus.
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3 more pages to catch up on, but I'm quoting this gem before you delete it.
Doncic is already signicificantly better than Bogdan, right now. There is absolutely no doubt about it.
Doncic is unlike anything I've ever seen at this age. Absolutely everything I see from him screams that he's on a completely other level.
Doncic gets his 14/5/5 (elite numbers in Europe) in about 24 minutes per game. I cannot explain how impressive what he's doing is. People are just going to have to wait and see him do it in the NBA, and I'm sure all the people throwing out lazy criticisms will be claiming they were high on him all along.
Doncic is already signicificantly better than Bogdan, right now. There is absolutely no doubt about it.
Doncic is unlike anything I've ever seen at this age. Absolutely everything I see from him screams that he's on a completely other level.
Doncic gets his 14/5/5 (elite numbers in Europe) in about 24 minutes per game. I cannot explain how impressive what he's doing is. People are just going to have to wait and see him do it in the NBA, and I'm sure all the people throwing out lazy criticisms will be claiming they were high on him all along.
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His ball handling is great for his size, I agree. I said Dunleavy with better passing/scoring.
Turkoglu might of been a better comparison for Luka (Playstyle wise).
As of right now though, I think he's closer to Dunleavy (athletically) then he is to Ginobili or Harden. Ginobili/Harden are some of the shiftiest players of all time. And can breakdown anyone off the bounce.
I'm not seeing that elite shiftiness/breakdown ability that Ginobili/Harden had/have, within Luka. Might just be me though?
Lukas transition speed did surprise me some, quicker then i expected getting up the court.
But in the half court I can see issues for him breaking down NBA defenders, if he dosen't get a lot quicker. Who knows tho, as I said in my original post, hes only 19 and NBA training can do wonders.
I would love to see him succeed as a King and become a star, but I personally think the correct pick for us is Bagley.
Turkoglu might of been a better comparison for Luka (Playstyle wise).
As of right now though, I think he's closer to Dunleavy (athletically) then he is to Ginobili or Harden. Ginobili/Harden are some of the shiftiest players of all time. And can breakdown anyone off the bounce.
I'm not seeing that elite shiftiness/breakdown ability that Ginobili/Harden had/have, within Luka. Might just be me though?
Lukas transition speed did surprise me some, quicker then i expected getting up the court.
But in the half court I can see issues for him breaking down NBA defenders, if he dosen't get a lot quicker. Who knows tho, as I said in my original post, hes only 19 and NBA training can do wonders.
I would love to see him succeed as a King and become a star, but I personally think the correct pick for us is Bagley.
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I'm not disrespecting Doncic at all, just calling it as I see it.
Doncic is a great overall player and will be a very solid pro. IMO. But i do question him becoming a superstar. And I feel like superstar is what you want out of a second overall pick.
Bagleys insane motor, rebounding, inside scoring, are all potentially elite in the NBA. And I can envision him reaching superstardom more then I can see Doncic reaching it.
Doncic is a great overall player and will be a very solid pro. IMO. But i do question him becoming a superstar. And I feel like superstar is what you want out of a second overall pick.
Bagleys insane motor, rebounding, inside scoring, are all potentially elite in the NBA. And I can envision him reaching superstardom more then I can see Doncic reaching it.
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You're on a role here.
Let me be absolutely crystal clear about this. Apart from the fact that you have absolutely zero knowledge of European basketball and it's history, you are embarrasssingly wrong. Peja, Vlade, Bogdan and literally every other player you could possibly name, were not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Luka at the same point in their careers. This is not even a debate. The fact that you're trying to state it as fact is pathetic. Honestly as a European and someone who regularly watches and keeps up with Euroleague, it's actually incredibly frustrating to see someone throw out absolutes as if they have any basis in reality. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about on this topic.
I don't like to be hostile, not everybody has to like Doncic as a prospect. But your analysis is so far off the mark that I cannot let it go unchallenged.
Let me be absolutely crystal clear about this. Apart from the fact that you have absolutely zero knowledge of European basketball and it's history, you are embarrasssingly wrong. Peja, Vlade, Bogdan and literally every other player you could possibly name, were not fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Luka at the same point in their careers. This is not even a debate. The fact that you're trying to state it as fact is pathetic. Honestly as a European and someone who regularly watches and keeps up with Euroleague, it's actually incredibly frustrating to see someone throw out absolutes as if they have any basis in reality. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about on this topic.
I don't like to be hostile, not everybody has to like Doncic as a prospect. But your analysis is so far off the mark that I cannot let it go unchallenged.
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What were Porzingis' stats in Europe, my basketball-minded friend? How about Marc and Pau's numbers? Rubio's? Only mentioning Ricky because I had the same problem trying to explain his APG stats to equally hard-headed people at the time. Comparing Euro stats to college or NBA ball makes zero sense. I'm not going to continue with examples because apparently evidence is not to be taken into account.
Why can’t yoy see Doncic teaching stardom. Dudes obviously has a great work ethic and he is a relentless competitor. Also everything in his skill set is what the nba is about in this era. With Doncic able to play 1-3 I don’t see how he could fail and I wanna see Bagley get measured I don’t believe he’s 6’10 without the hair
The question marks on Dončić have always been quickness and lateral movement. Dončić is good but he is not exactly a certain superstar or a franchise level player. He not a great athlete overall. His lack of quickness in the half court often does not allow him to lose his man on the screen (i.e. turn the corner) and he does get beaten easily defensively. He will stuggle defensively, especially early. Not the most agile player he gets by.
Even Real Madrid hide him on defence. By European standards, he is not a good defender so he will even stuggle more in the NBA. Now none of this means that he is a bust. I think he is just about the safest pick in the draft as his floor is high but I am not sure that his ceiling is so much higher than his floor.
He will be a very productive player in the NBA right from the start, at least offensively but at pick 2 you sure as hell hope to get more than a very good player. You want a franchise level player.
Even Real Madrid hide him on defence. By European standards, he is not a good defender so he will even stuggle more in the NBA. Now none of this means that he is a bust. I think he is just about the safest pick in the draft as his floor is high but I am not sure that his ceiling is so much higher than his floor.
He will be a very productive player in the NBA right from the start, at least offensively but at pick 2 you sure as hell hope to get more than a very good player. You want a franchise level player.
Those weaknesses are true but he looked fine matched up vs nba talent in Fiba play. How many 18 year olds are getting a triple double vs Spain and he was taking it to Porzingis as well.
I’m not worried about his athleticism when I see a guy like Lonzo Ball get to the paint with half the handle/jump shot as Doncic. Tatum was another who allegedly want athletic enough.
Also it needs to be said how elite of a rebounder he is and he’ll be close to 40% shooting from 3 over here
I’m not worried about his athleticism when I see a guy like Lonzo Ball get to the paint with half the handle/jump shot as Doncic. Tatum was another who allegedly want athletic enough.
Also it needs to be said how elite of a rebounder he is and he’ll be close to 40% shooting from 3 over here
ParniValjak summed up alot of what I was going to say. I question if he can become a number 1 scoring threat aswell. I feel like the Kings need that guy. Bagley fills three major voids on this team, rebounding, grit/hustle, and potential # 1 scoring threat. They would also have a legit P&R / Pick & Pop threat.
I worry about the Kings defensively with a lineup of Fox, Bogi and Doncic.. They would probably need to find a defensive beast PF who can switch onto and guard threes easily if they did go the Doncic Route.
Just to be clear after Ayton and Bagley, I'd draft Doncic all day.
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I think you will find I was more than happy to take Tatum last year. In fact I did debate with people that he will be a 20ppg player very early in his NBA career.
Tatum is a better athlete than Dončić and a more natural scorer while Dončić is more of a jack of all trades offensively but not someone who can be a 25ppg player on a play off team. Tatum can be that guy and I claimed that this time last year too.
He might have played against some of those NBA player when he played for the NT but it’s different when you face them in FIBA play as opposed to the NBA where you are up against great athletes every game, and some of the more elite perimedefenders who hone in on stopping you. Dončić is a hih IQ type player but lets be homest, even in current NBA which perimeter player with Dončić’s athletic profile is a perennial all star? There is none!
Tatum is a better athlete than Dončić and a more natural scorer while Dončić is more of a jack of all trades offensively but not someone who can be a 25ppg player on a play off team. Tatum can be that guy and I claimed that this time last year too.
He might have played against some of those NBA player when he played for the NT but it’s different when you face them in FIBA play as opposed to the NBA where you are up against great athletes every game, and some of the more elite perimedefenders who hone in on stopping you. Dončić is a hih IQ type player but lets be homest, even in current NBA which perimeter player with Dončić’s athletic profile is a perennial all star? There is none!
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