[Grades] Kings @ Pelicans (#2) 10/19/18

Who is better?

  • Nikola Mirotic

    Votes: 17 77.3%
  • Lebron James

    Votes: 5 22.7%

  • Total voters
    22

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#1
Another night with a lot of good and bad. While we scored like the Warriors, it was all for naught because the Pelicans scored like the Warriors playing against a AAU team from China.

We can continue to look much improved on offense but it's all amount to jack squat if guys like Mirotic continue to look like prime Jordan against us.

At least Marvin Bagley looks like an absolute stud duck and Willie continues to look like he's gunning for a max contract. Progess?




UNDER CONSTRUCTION
 
#2
Another night with a lot of good and bad. While we scored like the Warriors, it was all for naught because the Pelicans scored like the Warriors playing against a AAU team from China.

We can continue to look much improved on offense but it's all amount to jack squat if guys like Mirotic continue to look like prime Jordan against us.

At least Marvin Bagley looks like an absolute stud duck and Willie continues to look like he's gunning for a max contract. Progess?




UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Jazz 81 Warriors 69 at the Half. Season is wack.
 
#4
I haven't been able to watch either game this season but obviously know the outcomes. Are we panicking and jumping off the highest ledge or did we just lose to a couple of better western conference playoff teams?
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#6
Since I missed the game live and had to watch the replay I didn't read through the whole game thread. But I will say that Bagley looked every bit of the #2 overall pick here in just his second game. I think we've got a lot to look forward to this season as he improves (guys, he's only going to get better!) and as the rest of the team develops some experience. I like what I'm seeing from Willie - this is what I've been hoping to see night in and night out for the better part of three years, but I suppose better late than never if he can keep it up. And Giles has a lot of talent but just seems to be out of rhythm, which is probably to be expected given his long absence from the game. He and Bagley are going to make for a beautiful two-man game in about a year or so.

The score was a drag tonight, but again it was 5-on-8 in the first half with just a litany of terrible calls over and over, and then the Pelicans decided to hit every contested three they took, so what are you gonna do? The defense needs to get better, but tonight's defense wasn't "16-31 from three, 59% from the floor, give up 33 FTA" bad. The Pelicans are just hot right now. They got the Rockets by 19 and they got us by 20. If the commutative law says that we're 1 point worse than the Rockets right now, I'll take it!
 
#7
This is actually the first full Kings game for me, so I'll put in my own grades. I'm undecided on how I should rate our players because almost EVERYONE played horrible on defense. I'll do an offense/defense grade.

Offense/Defense

Fox: B+/C- 18pts 6asts 7rebs on 6-12 FG 6-7 FT. He had a bit of a cold streak in the 1st half, but I thought he did a great job controlling the flow and pace of the offense. Very uptempo, but he played completely in control. He did a good job facilitating the offense in that sense too. I thought he did a good job attacking the rim and drawing fouls. He also made 3 consecutive baskets somewhere in the 3rd quarter. He only took 1 3pt shot, and missed. He also had a couple sloppy turnovers. On defense Jrue Holiday basically bullied him. Even though Holiday didn't rack up a lot of pts (15), he exploited Fox with his passing. Holiday is a very good PG, so I don't fault Fox.

Hield: A-/C- 17pts 3asts 2rebs. 7-11 FG 3-4 3PT. He had a great scoring game. I really wish he got more than 11 shots today, but everyone's bucket was going in. He had a very efficient game. He even had 1 nice finish at the rim which could've been an and 1. Tagged the strong shooting performance with 3asts. However, his handles were a bit sloppy, and I'm not sure his shot selection will ever be great, but can you complain if it goes in? Aside from a few TOs, there's not much else Buddy could've done tonight except improve his ball handling. On defense, he was a bit slow on rotations. He still has troubles fighting around screens.

WCS: A/B- 20pts 7rebs 1ast 9-14 FG 2-3FT. He did a phenomenal job on offense. He took every big on the block and got all the way to the rim. His touch around the rim looks great right now. He only got 1asts... imagine someone telling you in the 2015 draft that Willie ending up with only 1asts in 26mins of play would be disappointing. However, I credit Joerger. He stopped with the high-post offense!!! Willie will have more opportunities to show off his passing abilities, but this one showed his scoring side. On defense he did a very good job keeping up with AD athletically, but AD is AD.. He also got hit with BS calls, but that's that. I thought he did a more than admirable defensive job, but their bigs just couldn't miss...literally.

Bagley: A/C+ 19pts 8rebs 3asts 3stls 1blk 7-10 FG 5-6FT. Woah, energy+bounce+scoring+everything. He was the whole package tonight. The only reason why he doesn't get an A+ on offense is because his 3 misses all came from 3pt land. I think it would be better to watch his highlights than have me describe his offensive performance. He looked extremely special out there. On defense was a different story. I thought he did a solid job of holding his own and he also got a few BS calls, but he has a lot of learning to do on that end. Seems like Randle especially was able to attack and finish over him consistently. However, his energy+athleticism allowed him to keep up with everyone on defense. He got 3stls as a result.

Mason: B+/C- 18pts 6asts 0tos 7-13 FG 3-4 FT. He played a great offensive game. He was our bench scorer and also provided good passes. He gets a lot of criticism, but he played very well tonight. Defensively, his lack of size was an issue. He too got bullied a few times. In truth, no one played great on defense...

Giles: D/F- 21mins: 7pts 4rebs 6PFs 3-11FG 1-4 FT. While the grade seems harsh, I know he'll have much better games to come. He's basically a rookie playing his first real organized basketball games in years. However, he had a really rough outing. The only reason why I didn't give him an F on offense is because he had some really nice passes. While he only had 1asts, he could've easily had 4 tonight. His biggest problems came when he was forcing horrific shots up. His touch is really lacking right now. Everything seems too hard, and I think he's just too anxious. On defense he got absolutely mauled. It seemed like he was on the receiving end of almost every basket scored by their big men. They couldn't miss at all, but Harry had trouble with their physicality. He wasn't able to hold his own and pretty much let their bigs get anywhere they wanted in the paint. His overall bball IQ looks a step slower than everyone elses. He fouled out in 21mins and a lot of the fouls were DeMarcus Cousins dumb fouls...unnecessary.

Ferrell: B/C- 7pts 2asts 2rebs. He played solidly on offense, but was a bit invisible at times. However, I'm really glad he recognizes his role on a rebuilding team. His defense was pretty bad because like Fox, he was getting out-muscled. Just not much you can do if you're Yogi. I feel bad giving him the grade he got on defense because the effort was 100% there.

Jackson: C-/B 2pts 4rebs 1asts 1-6 FG. I mean... at this point I think JJ shooting consistency is a huge issue. However, I thought he asserted himself in our offense just enough where he had passes that helped set up the offense. On defense he did a great job chasing people around. He was noticeably active on both ends as well. I think it was an ok game all around. He didn't play anywhere as bad as the stats indicated though.

Bjelica: C-/D 4pts 1rebs. Missed his 2 3pter attempts. He didn't get much playing time due to foul trouble, but he at least spaced the floor. His defense was bad. He got into foul trouble early.
 
#8
Yea i hope the team doesn’t get down on themselves at all, and continues to come out firing. The pelicans won’t be this hot consistently
 
#9
I haven't been able to watch either game this season but obviously know the outcomes. Are we panicking and jumping off the highest ledge or did we just lose to a couple of better western conference playoff teams?
We competed well against both teams minus the big runs that they each went on. Bagley looks like a sure thing. My premature analysis of him after two games is probable future all-star caliber player. He didn't even show any of his ability to shoot the ball in this game; it was all done by scoring at or around the basket. We put a lot of athleticism and speed on the floor. We are also without our best player from last year, Bogdon.

I would say the games have been fun to watch so far.
 
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#10
Giles has looked bad at everything except high post facilitating. You can tell mentally the injuries are still in the back of his mind in terms of keeping him from being agressive. Defensively he has been the worst big by far. Playing him with Kosta might do him some good.
 
#11
Thoughts:

Bogi. We really need him back.

Buddy as a secondary ball handler is just asking for 3 to 5 turnovers per game. He's a 6th man.

I was neutral on Zach Lavine, but if he was on our team the last two games, the Kings win both. Kings need a premium scorer who can drain threes and score in the paint. That's Lavine.

Justin Jackson is a great young man, who is soft. You can't fix soft.

Giles is playing too fast. You gotta let the game come to you. On defense, his knee injuries have really sapped his agility.

Bags. Accelerating and having a Joachim Noah like impact on the game. Watch what happens when he finds some polish.

Waiting for Fox to take over one of these games. At some point, we need him to stop facilitating and just taking over.

Bjelly had a tough night with Mirotvic. The new defense rules hurt him there.

14 sec reset and no holding/grabbing on the perimeter = crazy high scoring games. See Lavine comment above. None of us (here, STR, Ham, others) factored in how the recent changes place a premium on scorers like Lavine.

0-2, but feeling very good about what I'm seeing thus far.
 
#12
The Kings were pretty good. The Pels were great. The Refs treat Davis as a Super star which is expected. The Kings just need to hang together and find some defensive stoppers.
 
#13
Thoughts:

Bogi. We really need him back.

Buddy as a secondary ball handler is just asking for 3 to 5 turnovers per game. He's a 6th man.

I was neutral on Zach Lavine, but if he was on our team the last two games, the Kings win both. Kings need a premium scorer who can drain threes and score in the paint. That's Lavine.

Justin Jackson is a great young man, who is soft. You can't fix soft.

Giles is playing too fast. You gotta let the game come to you. On defense, his knee injuries have really sapped his agility.

Bags. Accelerating and having a Joachim Noah like impact on the game. Watch what happens when he finds some polish.

Waiting for Fox to take over one of these games. At some point, we need him to stop facilitating and just taking over.

Bjelly had a tough night with Mirotvic. The new defense rules hurt him there.

14 sec reset and no holding/grabbing on the perimeter = crazy high scoring games. See Lavine comment above. None of us (here, STR, Ham, others) factored in how the recent changes place a premium on scorers like Lavine.

0-2, but feeling very good about what I'm seeing thus far.
Fox stop facilitating????

Just to give you some numbers.

Fox total drives are 23. 10th most among guards

Fox passing percent off those drives 13% is 110th among guards.
 
#14
Giles has looked bad at everything except high post facilitating. You can tell mentally the injuries are still in the back of his mind in terms of keeping him from being agressive. Defensively he has been the worst big by far. Playing him with Kosta might do him some good.
Yeah he plays a bit like he’s worried about getting hurt
 
#15
Yeah he plays a bit like he’s worried about getting hurt
Fox stop facilitating????

Just to give you some numbers.

Fox total drives are 23. 10th most among guards

Fox passing percent off those drives 13% is 110th among guards.

Deferring. Facilitating, wrt, playing within the offense instead of just taking over and reshaping the opposing defense. He can have a Westbrook like impact. Now, I’m not necessarily a fan of that type of usage, but on this team where we lack a primary scoring option, we need him to play that way to win.

Buddy is too hot or cold and he’s good for negative 4 to 10 points per game, bcz of his TOs. Currently, everyone else is best a secondary option. We need a Levine type, who can score anywhere and who puts the opposing team in foul trouble.
 
#16
Deferring. Facilitating, wrt, playing within the offense instead of just taking over and reshaping the opposing defense. He can have a Westbrook like impact. Now, I’m not necessarily a fan of that type of usage, but on this team where we lack a primary scoring option, we need him to play that way to win.

Buddy is too hot or cold and he’s good for negative 4 to 10 points per game, bcz of his TOs. Currently, everyone else is best a secondary option. We need a Levine type, who can score anywhere and who puts the opposing team in foul trouble.
If Fox drove into the paint and drew fouls/kicked out to open shooters we would be a much better team.
 
#17
Since I missed the game live and had to watch the replay I didn't read through the whole game thread. But I will say that Bagley looked every bit of the #2 overall pick here in just his second game. I think we've got a lot to look forward to this season as he improves (guys, he's only going to get better!) and as the rest of the team develops some experience. I like what I'm seeing from Willie - this is what I've been hoping to see night in and night out for the better part of three years, but I suppose better late than never if he can keep it up. And Giles has a lot of talent but just seems to be out of rhythm, which is probably to be expected given his long absence from the game. He and Bagley are going to make for a beautiful two-man game in about a year or so.

The score was a drag tonight, but again it was 5-on-8 in the first half with just a litany of terrible calls over and over, and then the Pelicans decided to hit every contested three they took, so what are you gonna do? The defense needs to get better, but tonight's defense wasn't "16-31 from three, 59% from the floor, give up 33 FTA" bad. The Pelicans are just hot right now. They got the Rockets by 19 and they got us by 20. If the commutative law says that we're 1 point worse than the Rockets right now, I'll take it!
Grant said during the game that Bagley has improved every single game and he is totally right. He seems to have a real knack for adjusting his game and learning from his mistakes. Really really encouraging!

I also love how coach is putting WCS in position to succeed. I’m not seeming much of him in the high post being asked to initiate, instead they have him getting ball in places where he can use his quickness on the block to attack and score.
 
#18
Thoughts:

Bogi. We really need him back.

Buddy as a secondary ball handler is just asking for 3 to 5 turnovers per game. He's a 6th man.

I was neutral on Zach Lavine, but if he was on our team the last two games, the Kings win both. Kings need a premium scorer who can drain threes and score in the paint. That's Lavine.

Justin Jackson is a great young man, who is soft. You can't fix soft.

Giles is playing too fast. You gotta let the game come to you. On defense, his knee injuries have really sapped his agility.

Bags. Accelerating and having a Joachim Noah like impact on the game. Watch what happens when he finds some polish.

Waiting for Fox to take over one of these games. At some point, we need him to stop facilitating and just taking over.

Bjelly had a tough night with Mirotvic. The new defense rules hurt him there.

14 sec reset and no holding/grabbing on the perimeter = crazy high scoring games. See Lavine comment above. None of us (here, STR, Ham, others) factored in how the recent changes place a premium on scorers like Lavine.

0-2, but feeling very good about what I'm seeing thus far.
Scoring hasn’t been our issue. We are third in points per game so far and second in field goals made. We need guys that can actually play defense so those points mean something rather than another scorer.
 
#20
Thoughts:

Bogi. We really need him back.

Buddy as a secondary ball handler is just asking for 3 to 5 turnovers per game. He's a 6th man.

I was neutral on Zach Lavine, but if he was on our team the last two games, the Kings win both. Kings need a premium scorer who can drain threes and score in the paint. That's Lavine.

Justin Jackson is a great young man, who is soft. You can't fix soft.

Giles is playing too fast. You gotta let the game come to you. On defense, his knee injuries have really sapped his agility.

Bags. Accelerating and having a Joachim Noah like impact on the game. Watch what happens when he finds some polish.

Waiting for Fox to take over one of these games. At some point, we need him to stop facilitating and just taking over.

Bjelly had a tough night with Mirotvic. The new defense rules hurt him there.

14 sec reset and no holding/grabbing on the perimeter = crazy high scoring games. See Lavine comment above. None of us (here, STR, Ham, others) factored in how the recent changes place a premium on scorers like Lavine.

0-2, but feeling very good about what I'm seeing thus far.
Buddy isn’t a 6th man. Whether or not he’s a secondary ball handler is another issue, but he’s one of the teams better prospects heading forward
 
#22
The Pelicans over the first two games have been the best team in the NBA no one has an answer to Davis/Randle/Mirotic and you sprinkle in the 3 point shooting with the great all round game of Holiday and they are going to be tough I didn't think the Kings even played that bad tbh.
 
#24
I don't get why Kings fans are so thrilled to label Buddy as the 6th man
because he plays generally great as 6th man, and he plays generally overwhelmed as a starter. he might change that but he hasn't yet. I don't see why we should force things, but if he emerges as a solid starter then that's great too.
 
#25
because he plays generally great as 6th man, and he plays generally overwhelmed as a starter. he might change that but he hasn't yet. I don't see why we should force things, but if he emerges as a solid starter then that's great too.
but he's averaged 18pts through 2 games as the starter so far. He has done very well for himself... it's a matter of keeping it up. I don't think preseason play should have barring on his play
 
#26
but he's averaged 18pts through 2 games as the starter so far. He has done very well for himself... it's a matter of keeping it up. I don't think preseason play should have barring on his play
I think he’s one of the teams top 3-4 players going forward in terms of talent/dependability, and is a starting talent, so you hope that he gets acclimated to starting. I’ve often said 18/5/3+ good starting efficient player and he’s on pace

I’ve noticed he still gets a lot of scrutiny for his handles and such, as if he’s still not an evolving player who has improved markedly from a year or ago. It’s as if some are still bringing left over energy from the Cousins trade to the evaluation at times
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#27
If Joerger is playing Jackson at the 3, then Giles should be tried out as a 3 also. Will he shoot worse than JJ from the outside? No. Will he play worse defense than JJ? No. Can he pass better than JJ? Yes. Will he be a worse rebounder than JJ? Absolutely not. So why not try him out at 3? Put him at the 3 with Bagley at the 4 and WCS at the 5. What have they got to lose?
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#28
If Joerger is playing Jackson at the 3, then Giles should be tried out as a 3 also. Will he shoot worse than JJ from the outside? No. Will he play worse defense than JJ? No. Can he pass better than JJ? Yes. Will he be a worse rebounder than JJ? Absolutely not. So why not try him out at 3? Put him at the 3 with Bagley at the 4 and WCS at the 5. What have they got to lose?
He would be a worse defender at the 3..... I get what your saying but that’s a stretch. We would be better off trying Wenyen and or Troy Williams truth be told. I’ve said it for a while, JJ needs to shoot closer to 40% than 30% to be productive and I’m not even sure he’s shooting 30%.

A ballsy move by the organization would be to play Gabriel 20-24 minutes in a stretch of 5 games and make a judgement. If he shows he can handle it, knowing he’s raw, I’d pair JJ with Koufos or Skal or Zbo or Ben and make a deal
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#29
He would be a worse defender at the 3..... I get what your saying but that’s a stretch. We would be better off trying Wenyen and or Troy Williams truth be told. I’ve said it for a while, JJ needs to shoot closer to 40% than 30% to be productive and I’m not even sure he’s shooting 30%.

A ballsy move by the organization would be to play Gabriel 20-24 minutes in a stretch of 5 games and make a judgement. If he shows he can handle it, knowing he’s raw, I’d pair JJ with Koufos or Skal or Zbo or Ben and make a deal
I'd be for that also. It's time to try some different players at the 3.
 
#30
If Joerger is playing Jackson at the 3, then Giles should be tried out as a 3 also. Will he shoot worse than JJ from the outside? No. Will he play worse defense than JJ? No. Can he pass better than JJ? Yes. Will he be a worse rebounder than JJ? Absolutely not. So why not try him out at 3? Put him at the 3 with Bagley at the 4 and WCS at the 5. What have they got to lose?
The "Giles has elite lateral quickness for a SF" thing we heard from that lab doesn't look to translate to the court. Smaller players have taken him off the dribble numerous times. Some of it is obviously because he's young and lacks technique but he doesn't have SF quickness and doesn't really have any kind of SF'ness to his game either. He would rebound and pass better than JJ from the position but I'd say that he would make the defense even worse out there.

I'm just as tired of JJ as everyone else. What sucks is that we could live with his play off the bench if he could just hit his outside shots. His efficiency from 2 is actually pretty elite because his floater is money but they didn't draft him to make floaters, shoot 30% from the field, play below average defense and rebound like a Coke machine. They drafted him to be a 3&D SF that could stretch the floor for the offense.

I wouldn't mind giving Gabriel a shot.