Kings Can Not Win Title

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L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#1
#1
I'm a new guy. But gigantic Kings fan.

Don't get mad. I live in LA. I've watched every game since the team got good in 1999 and lost to Utah on Vlade's missed hook shot. I love the Kings. I hate the Lakers. My kid gets pounded at school for wearing Kings jerseys. I know the team. I kicked Pollard's bobblehead clean off when Horry made the shot.

Reality bites. Miller - Webber - Peja - Songalia - Ostertag are SLOW and can't jump. They will get killed on the boards all season. It will matter against good teams.

We can not win a title without an athletic big guy. I love Kings basketball. It hurts. A trade is a must. I want no one to go but they can not win with the front line they have. Damn.
 
Purple Reign

Purple Reign

Starter
#2
#2
LA SACTO FAN said:
We can not win a title without an athletic big guy. I love Kings basketball. It hurts. A trade is a must. I want no one to go but they can not win with the front line they have. Damn.
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What do you suggest?
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#3
#3
As everyone has suggested for months - the only real trade bait is Bobby Jacks or Peja. It's awful but it is reality. Maybe the Chicago kids are the answer to what our team lacks.

In a way its painful to see them do well now knowing that they could not win a seven game series against Dallas, Phoenix, Minny, or San Antonio without an athletic big guy. I know the guys are smart, pass well and blah-blah but they can't REBOUND. I'm not even sure they could beat Seattle in 7 game series now, the way Fortson punked them a couple of weeks ago.

Good news is - it's not cause Vlade is gone. He is done. Ostertag for Vlade is a push at this point of their careers.
 
C

crypticone

G-League
#4
#4
LA SACTO FAN said:
As everyone has suggested for months - the only real trade bait is Bobby Jacks or Peja. It's awful but it is reality. Maybe the Chicago kids are the answer to what our team lacks.

In a way its painful to see them do well now knowing that they could not win a seven game series against Dallas, Phoenix, Minny, or San Antonio without an athletic big guy. I know the guys are smart, pass well and blah-blah but they can't REBOUND. I'm not even sure they could beat Seattle in 7 game series now, the way Fortson punked them a couple of weeks ago.

Good news is - it's not cause Vlade is gone. He is done. Ostertag for Vlade is a push at this point of their careers.
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I agree that Sac may not be able to beat Minny or San Antonio in a seven game series without correcting their rebounding problem. But Dallas and Phoenix? Come on. Dallas is no where near the team that we beat last year in a seven game series and we already beat Phoenix once this year on there court and although it would be a close series we would beat them IMHO. Also, if Sacramento continues to pile up the wins in the regular season and can get HCA throughout the palyoffs, we have the ability to beat anyone in Arco. I know we haven't proven it against San Antonio or Minny in the regular season but the Playoff atmosphere in Arco is a alot different than in the regular season. IMHO, we would have beaten Minny last year if the Kings had the HCA in that series.
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#5
#5
Kings played well at Phoenix - Suns so-so. It was a sure win last year. Not now. Same goes for Dallas.

I agree about last year. But the gap on the boards this year is severe. The lack of speed is glaring, too. Tons of 2nd and 3rd chances against the Kings. Barnes is agressive - but like Wallace a tweener that can get the flying rebounds but not the muscle ones. Miller and Tag and Webber are gonna get deodorant stains all year long from 6'9 guys that leap.

Also....Christie whether its caused by his sore feet or his 12th year has lost a fraction of a step and some of his jump. I'm afraid it's not coming back. Inevitable but true, too.
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#6
#6
Why don't we wait for December to be over, and then January and so on till middle of April. Then we see who is healthy etc
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#7
#7
Oh geez.

I'm sorry, dude, but you're sure not sounding like a KINGS fan to me, especially not one who's been around at all. Throwing in the towel with your first post on a new board?

Whatever. If you want to jump off the bandwagon, no problem.
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#8
#8
Not jumping off at all. Just sad that the current front line isn't quite good enough. Been around plenty and know basketball plenty. The Kings could have won the title any of the last three years. No doubt. They just need a little help now. Actually, a big helper would be better.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
#9
Whatever... You could have said that IMHO without the dramatic "Kings can not win the title."

Why do I say that? Simple. We don't KNOW how things are going to look down the road. It's the first of December. A month ago we had a bunch of people who were convinced the whole team wasn't going to even be able to play together, let alone win games.

I have been a fan of this team since 1985, and a fan of NBA basketball since 1964 so your "been around plenty and know basketball plenty" doesn't mean squat to me.

You can cheer the team on or you can predict their doom. I choose the first!

GO KINGS!!!
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#10
#10
A title that says IMHO is sort of repetitive, no?

I have you beat by four years on the ol' basketball watching thing. Now there's something that really means squat.

Sort of aggressive. Can you rebound?
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#12
#12
well the rebounding wouldnt be that big of a problem if peja actually shows up in the playoffs.... when this team is clicking, the hustle players come up with some numbers and we win regardless. we are being out rebounded in winning games too....
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
#13
LA "SACTO" FAN -

First of all, the IMHO wasn't in regards to how you should have titled your thread. I'll restate:

You could have said that, in my humble opinion, without the dramatic "Kings can not win the title" as the title, complete with irate angry emoticon.

Better?

Can I rebound? I'm a short, middle-aged woman. I don't think I could make the team. That's not the point, however. I'll match my love of this sport against anyone and I've amassed a pretty fair amount of knowledge of the sport in those years, too.

I'm going to try and get this back on topic because we don't encourage personal arguments between members, and as a moderator of the board I should probably set a good example.

Why on earth would the Kings want to trade someone right now, especially when we're still getting used to playing with each other? Pedja is just beginning to get back to form, Tag's hand is finally feeling better, we're still learning just how much Barnes will be able to contribute, etc.

It's DECEMBER. We have a record of 10-5. With the exception of Brad, this team has done remarkably well over the past few years. AND Brad is replacing Vlade, so we haven't lost any tremendous leaping ability at the 5.

The comment that we should have more rebounding is blatantly obvious to anyone who hasn't lived in a cave for the last five years. It's ALWAYS been a problem of the team. But it's not an insurmountable problem. It's something to work on. Personally, I believe you're selling Pedja and Darius SONGAILA a bit short, and I think Miller will start to get the boards again.

You made a blanket comment about what this team can or cannot do. I choose to disagree. If you don't think they can win, fine. If you have season tickets, I'll be glad to take them off your hands. Of course, I can only pay about 10 cents on the dollar for tickets for a bunch of losers.
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#14
#14
No....you're missing the point. I like the Kings. I'll admit I didn't have Directv back in the heyday of Reggie Theus, but he did play basketball at Inglewood High and they were in our league back in 70ish.

The Kings play fun basketball. Good basketball. You're being defensive. The team is doing fine. I like to see them win. Your passion is not allowing you to see they are physically overmatched these days. That is my point. They need a different physical horse to put them at a championship level. I'm positive. I've watched this group of Kings very closely.

I'm on your side. You're speaking with your heart.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#15
#15
I'm being defensive? I'm too passionate and it's not allowing me to see that the Kings are physically overmatched? Oh good. A "pat the little lady on the head" comment. I just love those.

You've watched this group of Kings very closely? You think you're the only one??? Go ahead and pontificate about what will make the team better. If I disagree, I'm going to say so.
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#16
#16
Hmmm. Don't confuse passion with Knowledge. Physicality is a reality in the NBA. It's why the Lakers handled the Kings unfortunately. The officials let the Lakers beat up on the Kings at the Staples Center time and time again. Athleticism is not something that is gonna suddenly round into shape. Let's move on. I simply want the Kings to add someone so they won't fall short again.

good luck moderating.
 
J

jeffjcalweb

G-League
#17
#17
since you're new to the board, then you don't know you can't post any critical comments w/out being blown out of the water by some individuals.

for what its worth, which to some isn't much, i agree w/you. i have watched ery suns game this season. they remind me of the 99-00 kings, when jwill & crew were just getting started.

the difference is, this suns team is WAYYYYYYY more athletic and better than the kings of 99-00. up & down that team they are fast, athletic. stoudamire is showing bball skill & not just being a physical freak! he has an outside jump shot, and real low post moves. they have a nice bench (especially pg-sg-sf).

now when playoffs start and the game slows down, phoenix will have to prove they can execute a half court offense, but nash is a very intelligent PG and should be able to run an offense w/out much problem.
 
keflanag

keflanag

Bench
#18
#18
LA SACTO FAN said:
Not jumping off at all. Just sad that the current front line isn't quite good enough. Been around plenty and know basketball plenty. The Kings could have won the title any of the last three years. No doubt. They just need a little help now. Actually, a big helper would be better.
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Which is it? The Kings could have won the title any of the last three years, or the Kings cannot win a title without an athletic big man? You are contradicting yourself. The Kings were no more athletic last year, but you claim they could have won the title. This team will win or lose with offensive execution. They don't need to be a run-n-gun Pheonix/Dallas style team. When was the last time that worked in the playoffs? All they need is to be an average defensive team, execute on offense, and STAY HEALTHY and everything will fall into place. I'm not guaranteeing that they will win if this happens, but they can beat any team in the league if they play well.
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#19
#19
Last year - Vlade could still play a little. He was a low threat. Kings do not have one now. That makes it tough unless you're hot from the outside every game. Chemistry was better (at least for 2/3 of the season). Suns weren't as good. Seattle wasn't as good. Shaq was softening up the competition around. Clippers weren't as good. Barry might make Spurs better.

And....everyone in contention looks more athletic (up front) except the Kings. I like them - I just wish they had a jumping jack. I'll root but they need someone else. I hate to say it cause he is a cancer but Massenberg showed flashes of the athletic "muscle" rebounder that they are missing. We'll see. I hope they make a trade to contend for a title. I check your forums everyday in fact.
 
V

vj9999

Starter
#21
#21
LA SACTO FAN. You are definately entitled for you opinion and you bring up some points. In my opinion we can win the title even we are not the most athletic team. We have so many other abilities and talent that allows us to compensate for our lack of athleticism.

The only thing I am fearing is injuries, especialy after few near scares last night. If we stay healthy we are very much so a title contender.

Either way, win or lose, I am Kings through and through :)
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
#22
LA SACTO FAN said:
Last year - Vlade could still play a little. He was a low threat. Kings do not have one now. That makes it tough unless you're hot from the outside every game. Chemistry was better (at least for 2/3 of the season).
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Ah, the famous "chemistry" factoid.

I have to disagree vehemently, primarily because you are so FAR off-base. The chemistry on the team is FANTASTIC. In fact, it may actually be BETTER than it's been because of the teams need to band together against the idiocy being regurgitated in the media and on some fan boards about how BAD the team chemistry is/has been.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
#23
Possible. Yes we're horribly unathletic and it may have reached a critical point this year.

However:

1) can the Kings win the title without improving their rebounding? Absolutely not. We'll get pounded to dust by a Minnesota or San Antonio in the playoffs and go down in a flurry of 2nd chance points.

2) does that necessarily require a trade to correct? No. Not necessarily. Peja, Miller and Songaila are no less athletic than they were last year, but their rebounding has fallen off dramatically. And Tag has been a very good rebounder over his career, but has yet to get in the flow. The answers may already be on the roster.
 
H

hoops4kings

Bench
#24
#24
I agree that it would be nice to have an athletic big man, but he'd also have to be able to play in the King's system of basketball. Massenburg really wasn't that good to be honest. He talked the talk but unless you count that flagrant foul against Fisher last year, he didn't add any muscle underneath the hoop. Keon Clark is another example of an athletic big man who disappeared in the 2nd half of the season 2 years ago. I wouldn't trade one of our guys at this point because it would disrupt the team as they are trying to get into a flow.

The reality is that this team is built around offense and scoring as long as Adelman is the coach. An athletic big man would have to be able to fit in this system and contribute. I guess they're counting on Tag to provide some boards when he gets into better basketball shape. I agree that rebounding on this team is pathetic, but it has a lot to do with fundamentals that these guys aren't always executing. Last year their defense wasn't that good (rebounding included) until the playoffs started and then they clamped down (but as a consequence their offense became somewhat stagnant).

If this team is healthy this year going onto the playoffs and they still lose in the 2nd round I'm sure there will be some changes, but until then I see this team remarkably similar to last year's. The good news being that most of these players should be at the same level or better than last year especially Chris. It should be an interesting run but I think a championship run will be very tough.
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#25
#25
I'll hang in and hope. The fundamentals thing is true - BUT NBA is about fast point guards and hustling to help. Big guys have to be quick enough to help beaten point guards and recover back to their own man. Very very tough - I know.

The problem is if Peja chooses to watch a loose ball trickle past his feet with the game on the line we'll need someone besides Bobby Jackson that wants to go after it. Miller will want to - but he'll probably get there a second too late.

It's a soft part of the schedule - so enjoy the wins.
 
keflanag

keflanag

Bench
#26
#26
LA SACTO FAN said:
Last year - Vlade could still play a little. He was a low threat. Kings do not have one now. That makes it tough unless you're hot from the outside every game. Chemistry was better (at least for 2/3 of the season). Suns weren't as good. Seattle wasn't as good. Shaq was softening up the competition around. Clippers weren't as good. Barry might make Spurs better.

And....everyone in contention looks more athletic (up front) except the Kings. I like them - I just wish they had a jumping jack. I'll root but they need someone else. I hate to say it cause he is a cancer but Massenberg showed flashes of the athletic "muscle" rebounder that they are missing. We'll see. I hope they make a trade to contend for a title. I check your forums everyday in fact.
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Before I begin, let me point out two absurdities:

1. Vlade was just mentioned in a thread where part of the topic was the Kings no longer having "athleticism".
2. The Clippers were just mentioned in a thread with the word "title" in it.

Now that we've gotten that over with:

- Dallas could not win with Dirk, Nash, and Finley. Phoenix sure can't with Amare, Nash, and Marion.
- Seattle cannot continue winning if they are jacking up more 3's than 2's in a game.
- Barry hasn't done anything for the Spurs yet. However, they are the biggest threat with Duncan and Ginobili.
- Be happy the Kings are even in contention. There's really only about 4 or 5 legitimate contenders this year.
 
L

LA SACTO FAN

Guest
#27
#27
I said Vlade was a low threat - not a physical threat. Kareem was too. I was explaining why it wasn't last year anymore.

The Clippers were mentioned as improved.
 
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R

Rowdyone

Bench
#28
#28
Kings can win if the matchups in the playoffs are favorable pitting us against teams (athletic or not) that we can outscore versus teams that score as much as we do and are athletic as well. Athleticism doesn't mean skill but all things being equal it can be the tipping point.
 
W

webberfan

G-League
#29
#29
LA SACTO FAN said:
No....you're missing the point. I like the Kings. I'll admit I didn't have Directv back in the heyday of Reggie Theus, but he did play basketball at Inglewood High and they were in our league back in 70ish.

The Kings play fun basketball. Good basketball. You're being defensive. The team is doing fine. I like to see them win. Your passion is not allowing you to see they are physically overmatched these days. That is my point. They need a different physical horse to put them at a championship level. I'm positive. I've watched this group of Kings very closely.

I'm on your side. You're speaking with your heart.
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here's hoping i don't get labeled as a bad fan, but i'm gonna have to agree with most of what LASACTOFAN has to say.

if we don't improve our rebounding, we're not going to win the title. this team is lacking athletically, but that doesn't mean they can't learn to box out, anticipate the ball, or even curtail their natural tendency to run back to the other end ASAP when the opponents shoot.
 
Folsom Al

Folsom Al

Starter
#30
#30
Alot of Good Points Made From Everyone

Bottom-Line !!!!

It's a long season .... it all comes down to INJURIES & HEALTH !!!

World knows we've got the talent ... and anybody can win it this season. There is NO DOMINANT TEAM.

Speculate, criticize, analyze and debate all you want ... If our players aren't at 100% and only 8/12ths of our team is there at season end ... WE IN A HEAP OF TROUBLE.
 
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