Jimmer's stats in comparison to the rest of the team: Facts Can't Be Denied

I

Italics

Bench
#1
#1
Before I start, I just want to say this: This is my best attempt at a fair and objective look at Jimmer's performance thus far this season. We can get into subjective arguments about how good/bad his teammates are, how good the coaches are, whether or not Jimmer is getting a fair chance, whether his stats are in "garbage" time or not, etc. etc. There are all sorts of external factors which can be brought into the discussion, but in the end, stats are stats, and everything else is opinion.

Many so far this season have considered Jimmer a disapointment. Some have even called him "useless," saying he'll never make it in the league, and that he's not an NBA-caliber player. It begs me to ask: What did you expect from him? When you look at the stats, it becomes apparent that - if you think Jimmer "sucks" or has been a failure, you must have been expecting WAY too much out of him for a rookie.

Let's analyze:

1) Minutes Per Game: 23.1 (7th)

Something important to keep in mind as we review these stats are that Jimmer currently averages the 7th most minutes per game on the team. So any statistic in which he EXCELS over the majority of the team implies that he is doing more on the court with less time. This especially is important to consider in the statistical areas where he is doing better than players who average MORE time on the floor than he does (basically, any "per-game" statistic).

2) A/TO: 1.4 (Team average: .09)

A very important statistics for guards to have. Jimmer is currently - with Evans - tied for 5th in this category, ahead of both Thornton (0.7, ouch) and IT (1.3). The only other guard above him and Evans is Garcia (ESPN has Salmons as a SG, but I'm fairly confident he doesn't count as one of our "guards" right now).

Now is this Steve Nash-esque? No. But currently he's distributing the ball while taking care of the ball more effectively than the majority of the team - as well as the majority of the guards.

3) Points Per Game: 7.6 (5th)

Despite his shooting woes and limited play time (7th on team), Jimmer is currently 5th in scoring and only .1 points behind Salmons (7.7 ppg).

According to the forum poll, most people expected Jimmer to average around 10 ppg, so he is performing a little below expectations. As always, however, we also have to consider playing time.

4) Rebounds Per Game: 1.6 (10th)

No surprise really here, considering his position, size, and MPG.

One somewhat impressive stat, however, is that he's tied with Evans for 6th on the team is offensive rebounds per game.

5) Assists Per Game: 2.1 (2nd)

This one kind of speaks for itself. As I've said in several threads, Jimmer has shown some of the best ability on this team to run the offense. In assists, points, and A/TO ratio, Jimmer has proven to be above average on this team, particularly in comparison to the other guards. If he doesn't have "point guard skills," then who does?

And again, this is all with limited minutes and rookie status after the lockout...

6) Steals Per Game: .64 (5th)

.64 steals per game is not overly impressive within itself, but it is something that this team as a whole struggles with. It is also yet another statistic where Jimmer is outperforming the majority of his teammates.

7) FG%: 34.5% (Team Average: 39.6%)

Surprisingly, Jimmer's fg% is low in comparison to the rest of the team. Should this be a huge cause for concern? In my opinion, no. Why? Because we all know that he is capable of shooting the ball extremely well, and I don't think many people have any doubts that Jimmer will eventually get into rhythm and start knocking down more shots.

If there's any stat that it's "good" for Jimmer to be struggling with his rookie season, it's this one - because we all know for a fact that he will improve on it.

8) 3P%: 28.3 (3rd)

So Jimmer is roughly 30% from beyond the arc. Not great in general, and DEFINITELY not great for Jimmer. Yet... 3rd on the team. If you want to pick on the guy for performing less than what he's capable of, fair enough. But let's not pretend like he's "hurting" the team in this category when he's outperforming most of his teammates in it.

9) FT%: 92% (2nd)

The only player on the team shooting a better FT% than Jimer right now is Honeycutt, who is 2 for 2 on the season.


CONCLUSION: It seems both ironic and unfair to me just how much negative attention Jimmer is getting from the fans on this forum. Reading the grade threads, you'd think Jimmer is the worst player on the team. Reading the game threads, you'd think that his teammates are outperforming him and that he is costing us games. Yet, when we look at the cold hard facts, we see that Jimmer is outperforming the majority of his teammates in nearly every single category. Even his per-game statistics, which SHOULD be lower due to less minutes - are often in the top 5 on the team.

And this is only part way into his rookie season... a rookie season which included a coaching change, very few workouts, and very few practices... and on one of the hands down WORST teams in the league.

So what was it you guys were expecting again?
 
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Krunker

Krunker

Northernmost Kings Fan
#2
#2
2) 1.4 Assists to Turnover is average. Certainly not a top PG, who tend to have ratios > 2. That he is near the top for the Kings just shows how bad the Kings are as a team in A/TO.

5) 2.1 APG is not very good in my opinion. Even for 23mpg I would consider something more like 3-4 APG to be approaching good numbers.

7-8) 34.5% and 28.3% shooting is just bad. That he is third on the team just shows how bad the rest of our team is.

9) I agree this is good

I know your premise is to establish that Jimmer is not the worse player on the team. I agree with you there. But I do lump Jimmer in with a bunch of other Kings players that are underperforming (Salmons, Hickson, Garcia, often Thornton, etc.) compared to what I would consider to be a good NBA player.
 
I

Italics

Bench
#4
#4
Krunker said:
2) 1.4 Assists to Turnover is average. Certainly not a top PG, who tend to have ratios > 2. That he is near the top for the Kings just shows how bad the Kings are as a team in A/TO.

5) 2.1 APG is not very good in my opinion. Even for 23mpg I would consider something more like 3-4 APG to be approaching good numbers.

7-8) 34.5% and 28.3% shooting is just bad. That he is third on the team just shows how bad the rest of our team is.

9) I agree this is good

I know your premise is to establish that Jimmer is not the worse player on the team. I agree with you there. But I do lump Jimmer in with a bunch of other Kings players that are underperforming (Salmons, Hickson, Garcia, often Thornton, etc.) compared to what I would consider to be a good NBA player.
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You are exactly right. The point is not that his stats are great in general. The point is that - as a rookie with little practice time with the team - he is outperforming them. Yet if you read what most people on this forum say about him, you'd never guess it. Jimmer will not only improve between now and the end of the season, but he will improve from season to season and - I believe - become a great player in the league. The people who are already calling him "useless" and "out of his league" are ignoring the facts and using Jimmer as a scapegoat for this awful team.
 
Mass

Mass

Starter
#5
#5
Ok, I usually don't write on this forum, because English is not my native language so I don't want to make any bad mistakes (I'm italian), but now this is going too far. I'm a long time Kings fan, I watch all the games on League Pass, so I have a pretty good idea of what it's going on with this team. I really can't stand anymore these Jimmer fans (not Kings fans). Don't get me wrong, I love Jimmer and I really want him to do well in the league. But, right now, you just can't defend him putting up these kinds of stats! You are not showing how good he is or how good he is doing. You are just showing how bad the Kings are right now! There's no point in comparing his stats with the rest of the team. Just look at his stas:

23.1 MPG, 7,6 PPG, 1,6 RPG, 2,1 APG, 0,6 SPG, 1,6 TO, .345 FG% .283 3FG%

Does it look so great to you? And I don't even want to start talking about defense, because that is one of his main problems. It's sad to say, but right now Jimmer does not look ready, and most of the time he looks lost out there. Maybe you can blame the coaching staff, the system (or the lack of a system), or anything you want. But now he is just a struggling rookie.
I completely agree with that guy who wrote that we would be so much better with Beno, Dally, and a SF like AK47. And remember, we wouldn't have Salmons right now, and we could have used our pick on Brandon Knight or Leonard...

Anyways, I really hope Jimmer can turn things around and start play well. But you have to stop putting up these threads trying to make him look good. Right now he is not.

BTW, if you didn't notice it, you are not doing a great service for you favorite player. You are making people tired of hearing how good Jimmer is and why he should play 48 min per game shooting 75 times. Just let that guy alone, and wait for him to adjust to the NBA game. Please!
 
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UK_King

UK_King

Starter
#6
#6
How many threads on Jimmer do we really need.

I think we've discovered that he is definitely the reason we're in this mess and he's also definitely not the reason we're in this mess.

that seems pretty clear to me.
 
M

mac

All-Star
#7
#7
Italics said:
Before I start, I just want to say this: This is my best attempt at a fair and objective look at Jimmer's performance thus far this season. We can get into subjective arguments about how good/bad his teammates are, how good the coaches are, whether or not Jimmer is getting a fair chance, whether his stats are in "garbage" time or not, etc. etc. There are all sorts of external factors which can be brought into the discussion, but in the end, stats are stats, and everything else is opinion.

Many so far this season have considered Jimmer a disapointment. Some have even called him "useless," saying he'll never make it in the league, and that he's not an NBA-caliber player. It begs me to ask: What did you expect from him? When you look at the stats, it becomes apparent that - if you think Jimmer "sucks" or has been a failure, you must have been expecting WAY too much out of him for a rookie.

Let's analyze:

1) Minutes Per Game: 23.1 (7th)

Something important to keep in mind as we review these stats are that Jimmer currently averages the 7th most minutes per game on the team. So any statistic in which he EXCELS over the majority of the team implies that he is doing more on the court with less time. This especially is important to consider in the statistical areas where he is doing better than players who average MORE time on the floor than he does (basically, any "per-game" statistic).

2) A/TO: 1.4 (Team average: .09)

A very important statistics for guards to have. Jimmer is currently - with Evans - tied for 5th in this category, ahead of both Thornton (0.7, ouch) and IT (1.3). The only other guard above him and Evans is Garcia (ESPN has Salmons as a SG, but I'm fairly confident he doesn't count as one of our "guards" right now).

Now is this Steve Nash-esque? No. But currently he's distributing the ball while taking care of the ball more effectively than the majority of the team - as well as the majority of the guards.

3) Points Per Game: 7.6 (5th)

Despite his shooting woes and limited play time (7th on team), Jimmer is currently 5th in scoring and only .1 points behind Salmons (7.7 ppg).

According to the forum poll, most people expected Jimmer to average around 10 ppg, so he is performing a little below expectations. As always, however, we also have to consider playing time.

4) Rebounds Per Game: 1.6 (10th)

No surprise really here, considering his position, size, and MPG.

One somewhat impressive stat, however, is that he's tied with Evans for 6th on the team is offensive rebounds per game.

5) Assists Per Game: 2.1 (2nd)

This one kind of speaks for itself. As I've said in several threads, Jimmer has shown some of the best ability on this team to run the offense. In assists, points, and A/TO ratio, Jimmer has proven to be above average on this team, particularly in comparison to the other guards. If he doesn't have "point guard skills," then who does?

And again, this is all with limited minutes and rookie status after the lockout...

6) Steals Per Game: .64 (5th)

.64 steals per game is not overly impressive within itself, but it is something that this team as a whole struggles with. It is also yet another statistic where Jimmer is outperforming the majority of his teammates.

7) FG%: 34.5% (Team Average: 39.6%)

Surprisingly, Jimmer's fg% is low in comparison to the rest of the team. Should this be a huge cause for concern? In my opinion, no. Why? Because we all know that he is capable of shooting the ball extremely well, and I don't think many people have any doubts that Jimmer will eventually get into rhythm and start knocking down more shots.

If there's any stat that it's "good" for Jimmer to be struggling with his rookie season, it's this one - because we all know for a fact that he will improve on it.

8) 3P%: 28.3 (3rd)

So Jimmer is roughly 30% from beyond the arc. Not great in general, and DEFINITELY not great for Jimmer. Yet... 3rd on the team. If you want to pick on the guy for performing less than what he's capable of, fair enough. But let's not pretend like he's "hurting" the team in this category when he's outperforming most of his teammates in it.

9) FT%: 92% (2nd)

The only player on the team shooting a better FT% than Jimer right now is Honeycutt, who is 2 for 2 on the season.


CONCLUSION: It seems both ironic and unfair to me just how much negative attention Jimmer is getting from the fans on this forum. Reading the grade threads, you'd think Jimmer is the worst player on the team. Reading the game threads, you'd think that his teammates are outperforming him and that he is costing us games. Yet, when we look at the cold hard facts, we see that Jimmer is outperforming the majority of his teammates in nearly every single category. Even his per-game statistics, which SHOULD be lower due to less minutes - are often in the top 5 on the team.

And this is only part way into his rookie season... a rookie season which included a coaching change, very few workouts, and very few practices... and on one of the hands down WORST teams in the league.

So what was it you guys were expecting again?
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Oh my goodness do I really need to put you on my ignore list? You want to talk about 3 pt %? How about our supposed 3 point shooters on the team are Jimmer, Salmons and Garcia. It doesn't matter if Jimmer's % is better than Tyreke's because Tyreke isn't supposed to be a 3 point shooter. Compare 3 point FGA with other guys together with %. And no, you're wrong, Jimmer is hurting the team with his poor shooting. That doesn't mean the rest aren't. Why the **** do you think we're playing as crap as we are? Because Jimmer is the only one playing badly? I'm sick and tired of this BS man, just give it a break, Jimmer is getting just as much flak from any reasonable poster as any other ****ing useless player on this stupid team. Seriously I think the BB IQ of our entire team combined is lower than any random 2 guys from the Kings of old.

The Kings losing is bad enough. I don't need to log on everyday and see some new thread about how Jimmer is not our only problem, as if the whole world gives a damn about Jimmer alone.
 
R

Rug King

Bench
#8
#8
I've been pretty disappointed with Jimmer's play. The one thing he was supposed to be is a lights out shooter. what???????

He hasn't shown he can hit the shots at all and in fact, he doesn't even look like he belongs on the same court as the other guys. I hope this gets turned around but I'm surprised he looks so terrible.
 
Hadlowe

Hadlowe

Starter
#9
#9
Dude, just stop it. I started watching the Kings because Jimmer was a lot of fun to watch in college. I was hoping he would come in and have a positive impact on the team. For whatever reason, it hasn't happened so far. You're just setting him up to fail. Back off and let him develop.

He's not nearly as big a failure as sactownfan makes him out to be, and he's nowhere near as good as you want him to be.
 
M

mr. moustache

Bench
#13
#13
Here's something fair and objective. Jimmer's mostly sucking it up out there. Sadly, the same statement mostly applies to ALL of our players, though I think Evans and Cousins have at least strung together some monster games.

Comparing Jimmer to Salmons isn't a favorable comparison. Many of us hated the idea of him coming back to the team and that was imagining *good* Salmons. *Bad* Salmons is a nightmare.

Jimmer will be fine.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#14
#14
mr. moustache said:
Jimmer will be fine.
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Will he? I certainly hope so, but what I have been seeing is alarming me . What you hope for here is the Stephen Curry situation, who had a shaky first month and then got stronger and stronger. But Curry's shaky first month was MUCH better and better rounded than Jimmer's. And what you fear is the Quincy Douby, with Jimmer right now looking like possibly our weakest first round pick since Douby.

Curry 1st month as rookie:
29.1min 9.8pts (.417 .385 .786) 3.2reb 5.3ast 1.3stl 0.4blk 2.5TO
Jimmer 1st month as rookie:
23.1min 7.6pts (.345 .283 .923) 1.6reb 2.1ast 0.6stl 0.0blk 1.1TO
Douby overall rookie:
8.5min 2.8pts (.381 .240 .733) 0.9reb 0.4ast 0.4stl 0.1blk 0.4TO
Douby as rookie if given Jimmer's 23.1min:
23.1min 7.6pts (.381 .240 .733) 2.5reb 1.1ast 1.1stl 0.3blk 1.1TO

And that last one, while just a numbers game, is why I am concerned right now. Basically Jimmer has been playing at a Douby level, minus the defense. Closer to being a PG though, so maybe there's a way up.
 
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bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#15
#15
I can't believe were doing this again. Let it rest, will you. When your struggling and trying to find your game, the last thing you need is to constantly have the spotlight shined on you. Ironicly, this last game may have been Jimmer's best of the year. He went 3 or 7 from the floor, one of which was a layup. He had a few good defensive moments, and he was one of the few that moved without the ball, and tried to get his teammates involved. There were times that I thought he looked more comfortable out there.

None of what I said is an endorsement for ROY. If you're really a Jimmer fan, then you'll shut the hell up, and let him find his way without using his name as an irritant in these ridiculous threads.
 
L

LWP777

Guest
#16
#16
Baja, you are very grumpy lately! It's probably because the Kings are 4-10 and look terrible right now! You need to relax...maybe go fishing, drink lots of beers, etc.!!
 
Gliesian

Gliesian

Bench
#17
#17
I wouldn't really consider this a "fair and objective" look at Jimmer's performance. Every category is accompanied by a bias opinion and attempts to lure the reader into thinking of his stats in a different way then they are au naturel.

Also, this comparison has a a major flaw:
Jimmer is in his rookie year and this is his first look at how he is faring in the NBA. Our other team members give a deeper look into how they perform and have career stats, not just this season's. Now I understand that comparing career stats over the season's stats (especially with the schedule) is not fair, but neither is comparing the season's when we have such a large disparity in sample size. Most of our players, except the rookies, are better than the beginning of this season's stats suggest, making a comparison as the determining factor for Jimmer's ability deeply flawed.
 
K

KingBen

Prospect
#18
#18
Trade Jimmer! Isaiah is much better and will be better long term. He is so good with the ball. Plus he is friends with Tyreke. If I was the coach Isaiah would start and play the whole game.

Jimmer is too slow, can't jump, can't shoot, and is way overrated. I would never play Jimmer again!
 
Gliesian

Gliesian

Bench
#20
#20
I wouldn't really consider this a "fair and objective" look at Jimmer's performance. Every category is accompanied by a bias opinion and attempts to lure the reader into thinking of his stats in a different way then they are au naturel.

Also, this comparison has a a major flaw:
Jimmer is in his rookie year and this is his first look at how he is faring in the NBA. Our other team members give a deeper look into how they perform and have career stats, not just this season's. Now I understand that comparing career stats over the season's stats (especially with the schedule) is not fair, but neither is comparing the season's when we have such a large disparity in sample size. Most of our players, except the rookies, are better than the beginning of this season's stats suggest, making a comparison as the determining factor for Jimmer's ability deeply flawed.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#21
#21
Can we stop defending Jimmer? Just like we should stop defending anyone. Everyone is struggling in one way or another .. yet I don't see thread after thread or post after post defending the rest of the guys.

Its ok. Jimmers a big boy. He doesn't need constant defending. This is the NBA and he has been bad. It isn't HIS fault we keep losing, but he certainly isn't helping us win. We are collectively failing. I happen to sit on the side of the fence that thinks he will be ok, but that doesn't mean I'm going to excuse his poor play, and I certainly wasn't in favor of drafting him or making that god-awful trade. I think his numbers would look much better if his shooting was better, obviously. That is his issue now.

Better shooting #'s = more playing time. More playing time and better shooting #'s = more confidence. More confidence = better ball handling and decision making. Once he starts shooting like I think he can shoot, things will start to click. He shot (.396) from 3 last season at BYU. With defenders draped all over him. He should be able to hit .400 from 3 in the NBA. It would be nice if he could start hitting the wide open ones he keeps missing.

So while I'm not worried yet, I do think it is unfair for Isaiah Thomas to ride the bench for Jimmer while he is struggling like this. Thomas has been better and deserves to play.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#22
#22
Is Jimmer what's wrong with this team? Heck no, He's just one of the problems. I'm just hoping we have quite a few players underperforming, because that implies they can get better than they are right now. Let's face it. Jimmer was known as a shooter, especially the long ball. Right now he's having trouble making wide-open shots, not just contested ones.

Because I love my Kings, I am hoping Jimmer does get better with time. I hope a lot of other guys start playing to their potential, too.

However, some Jimmer fans (not Kings fans) are currently a problem. They are so biased about their guy, so involved in hyping him, it verges on delusional. What's even worse, to try and build up Jimmer, they feel a need to tear down other players on the team. As a Kings fan that irritates the heck out of me and I have to fight the urge to hate Jimmer, because of his exceedingly annoying homer fans.

These are the players we have and they are the youngest team in the league. We pretty much need everyone to step up and learn to play together. Learn to trust each other.
 
N

Npliam

Starter
#23
#23
Italics is a huge BYU homer (shocking I know) and has never really shown any ability to see things from others perspective. He and I have gone the rounds on another board because he can be such a condescending dick head.

I am a Jimmer fan and want to see him do well. I think he will. There is no doubt that he hasn't played well and is learning how to play all over again.
 
I

Italics

Bench
#24
#24
Mass said:
BTW, if you didn't notice it, you are not doing a great service for you favorite player. You are making people tired of hearing how good Jimmer is and why he should play 48 min per game shooting 75 times. Just let that guy alone, and wait for him to adjust to the NBA game. Please!
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English must not be your native language if you've completely missed the point of this thread even after I clearly stated it several times. Yet, your post seemed to have pretty good grammar, so maybe you just chose to ignore the point so you could say what you planned on saying before you even read the post? Yeah, that sounds more likely.

And I never said anything even close to what I quoted you accusing me of saying.

Next.
 
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M

mr. moustache

Bench
#25
#25
Bricklayer said:
Will he? I certainly hope so, but what I have been seeing is alarming me . What you hope for here is the Stephen Curry situation, who had a shaky first month and then got stronger and stronger. But Curry's shaky first month was MUCH better and better rounded than Jimmer's. And what you fear is the Quincy Douby, with Jimmer right now looking like possibly our weakest first round pick since Douby.

Curry 1st month as rookie:
29.1min 9.8pts (.417 .385 .786) 3.2reb 5.3ast 1.3stl 0.4blk 2.5TO
Jimmer 1st month as rookie:
23.1min 7.6pts (.345 .283 .923) 1.6reb 2.1ast 0.6stl 0.0blk 1.1TO
Douby overall rookie:
8.5min 2.8pts (.381 .240 .733) 0.9reb 0.4ast 0.4stl 0.1blk 0.4TO
Douby as rookie if given Jimmer's 23.1min:
23.1min 7.6pts (.381 .240 .733) 2.5reb 1.1ast 1.1stl 0.3blk 1.1TO

And that last one, while just a numbers game, is why I am concerned right now. Basically Jimmer has been playing at a Douby level, minus the defense. Closer to being a PG though, so maybe there's a way up.
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To be clear, I don't think Jimmer is capable of sniffing Curry's production level, but we don't need that and expecting that is crazy given where he was drafted.

I still think Jimmer's career will end up being the super-Beno. Solid starter or 6th man of the year type, but he's no Steph Curry. That said, Steph Curry might not be Steph Curry if his ankles keep being his ankles. I'm pretty happy Evan's ankles have held up this year.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#26
#26
Another horrible thread.

Jimmer isn't a top 8 guy on our team right now, hence, he's far from being one of our bigger problems. It's pretty easy to tell Kings fans from Jimmer jockers, given Kings fans recognize the multiple other, more serious problems which are resulting in our crappy play, as well as organizational problems, while the Jimmer jockers ignore all the more serious problems, which WE Kings fans care greatly about and have discussed for some time now.

We have far greater problems than Jimmer right now. These threads are getting damn tiring, and quite ridiculous. We have a number of serious problems, both with this team and the organization as a whole, yet here we are putting Jimmers stats up against the teams, and acting as if he's actually outplaying them, or is the key to turning things around.

It's pointless. It's not one of the bigger problems. Our ship is going down, and we have people more concerned with this petty argument?
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#27
#27
rainmaker said:
Another horrible thread.

Jimmer isn't a top 8 guy on our team right now, hence, he's far from being one of our bigger problems. It's pretty easy to tell Kings fans from Jimmer jockers, given Kings fans recognize the multiple other, more serious problems which are resulting in our crappy play, as well as organizational problems, while the Jimmer jockers ignore all the more serious problems, which WE Kings fans care greatly about and have discussed for some time now.

We have far greater problems than Jimmer right now. These threads are getting damn tiring, and quite ridiculous. We have a number of serious problems, both with this team and the organization as a whole, yet here we are putting Jimmers stats up against the teams, and acting as if he's actually outplaying them, or is the key to turning things around.

It's pointless. It's not one of the bigger problems. Our ship is going down, and we have people more concerned with this petty argument?
Click to expand...


I will disagree just to this degree: we've been getting 23 minutes of near nothing from Jimmer a night. That's a ton of empty minutes and its really hurt us, espically when compared to what we were getting from Beno, the man he effectively replaced. There are certainly myriad other problems, but Jimmer's inability to make the jump to the NBA yet is definitely one of them.

An interesting question is what the organization's priorities are for the remainder of this season. For the last couple of years its been player development. And when you go out in the offseason and get even younger so that you are now the youngest team in the league, that would certainly suggest more player development as a possibility. But I get a feeling they want to win, have pressure to win, the fans want to win, and in general they need to see results. And where we are on that line has significance for Jimmer, because up until this point we have largely played him as if we are still in player development mode. Lots of minutes, even if they are empty, just to try to get him experience. But if we are in win mode then Jimmer has not earned his minutes, and as I showed in some stats above is actually producing at pretty much the same rate Quincy Douby did as a rookie. Until he figures it out, on a team trying to win those Douby type minutes are the sorts of minutes he would normally be getting -- the blowout minutes, maybe spotted in for a quarter ending play here or there where we neeeded shooting etc. He would be closer to a 10min a game spot player than the major rotation player he's been playing until this point, and try to get him experience and confidence in garbage minutes after games have been deciuded rather than right in the middle of games we are still trying to win. Be interesting to see what our priorities are here.
 
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I

Italics

Bench
#28
#28
LWP777 said:
Baja, you are very grumpy lately! It's probably because the Kings are 4-10 and look terrible right now! You need to relax...maybe go fishing, drink lots of beers, etc.!!
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Lots of grumpy people on this forum. I posted facts and remained respectful.

And all I get are subjective, opinionated (non-factual) responses and personal attacks.

You guys are one angry angry bunch!
 
Mass

Mass

Starter
#29
#29
Well, I really think I got your point. And that's why I keep saying that this kind of topic is really meaningless. I understand you are a great Jimmer fan, but you won't make him look better just taking all the others Kings player down. Like I said, I really hope he can start playing well. But right now just a blind fan would say that Jimmer is doing ok.

Maybe we have different views. You see your player and all you want is him to succeed. I believe you would be happy to see him scoring 30 pts every night, even if the Kings lose every single game. But for me, and I guess for the most part of the people around here, it is more important to see the Kings win and succeed. If Jimmer can be a part of it, great, we would all be happy. But if he can't, he just needs to sit down. This are the Sacramento Kings, not the Jimmer Fredette Kings.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to attack you personally. What you say is your opinion and I respect it. But you should understand that people get tired to hear about how good Jimmer is, when it's clear that he is not right now. Jimmer, now, is not our biggest problem, but he is one of them. Last year we had Beno, who was doing an amazing job coming off the bench. He was giving this team some leadership, some smart plays, and was hitting his mid-range jumpers very constantly. Jimmer is not doing anything of these things. Sure, it's a lockout season, no training camp, no practices, two coaches etc. But the point is that he is not looking good. Period. Right now Thomas deserves more minutes, there's no doubt about it.
 
J

jpsls

Bench
#30
#30
Italics said:
Lots of grumpy people on this forum. I posted facts and remained respectful.

And all I get are subjective, opinionated (non-factual) responses and personal attacks.

You guys are one angry angry bunch!
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The problem with those stats is that I would think a majority of the players compensate for the deficiencies in other areas such as: man-to-man defense, team defense, rebounding, shooting, stretching the defense. etc. Jimmer, while not the worst is below mediocre in about every category. What exactly is he doing well besides shooting free throws? Even using free throws as a barometer for his effectiveness is a stretch because he rarely gets to the line. Although a majority of the players are posting outrageously horrendous stats, they have at least one other category where they excel or are average.

As others have stated, Jimmer plays empty minutes. He's not providing anything tangible or intangible; he's just a ghost when on their floor.
 
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