It's All About "The Culture"

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#1
Is it better than it was at the beginning of the season?

What exactly is "the culture"? If memory serves, Malone has described the culture as high work ethic, commitment to defense and selflessness. Somebody can help me out here. What other attributes describe "culture"?

If this season is ALL about culture, not wins and losses, then what are the empirical benchmarks to determine whether the culture has improved or not? How do you know whether the culture is improving or not?

Is there reason to believe that the culture will improve (or not) from this point until the end of the season?
 
#2
There probably is no right answer due to exactly what you are getting at - defining 'the culture' will probably be a bit different for everyone.

Honestly, I think it is hard to evaluate this team and its culture due to all the trades, moves yet to happen, and injuries/illness to Gay/Cousins.

From an organization standpoint, I conclude that they care about making this team better. In terms of the past few years, that is a definite improvement.
 
#3
It's about making the efforts from the owner down through every other position in the organization, so that by the time we move into the new arena, this team and it's "culture" has been completely changed.

I do believe they are on their way to getting it done. It's just going to take a while, which is difficult during that process.

Probably the best case realistic scenario, is that it's completely changed going into the year before the move into the new arena. That's the season after next
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#7
I thought the culture was to have a team that shared the ball and played defense. I also thought they wanted decent guys who valued team play. We ended up with a team that has little if any team coherence and is one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

I probably got this "New Culture" wrong but when I hear Malone lament the play of a team after a bad game, he talks about defense and sharing, neither of which happen very often. It seems to me that Malone's new culture is as I stated. I don't know what PDA's New Culture is unless it is to show the league he will trade anyone at anytime.
 
#8
I thought the culture was to have a team that shared the ball and played defense. I also thought they wanted decent guys who valued team play. We ended up with a team that has little if any team coherence and is one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

I probably got this "New Culture" wrong but when I hear Malone lament the play of a team after a bad game, he talks about defense and sharing, neither of which happen very often. It seems to me that Malone's new culture is as I stated. I don't know what PDA's New Culture is unless it is to show the league he will trade anyone at anytime.
He will never trade McLemore.:rolleyes:
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
You have to break some eggs to make an omelet.

Right now, everyone from the new ownership group on down is still trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. The Ma****s did everything they could to destroy this franchise and they nearly succeeded. It's gonna take a while to get things right, to make it obvious to all concerned we are, in fact, moving in the right direction.

I'm willing to be patient and let them do their work. To me, it's a lot like spring cleaning. My house almost always ends up looking worse for a while before I'm done.
 
#10
You have to break some eggs to make an omelet.

Right now, everyone from the new ownership group on down is still trying to separate the wheat from the chaff. The Ma****s did everything they could to destroy this franchise and they nearly succeeded. It's gonna take a while to get things right, to make it obvious to all concerned we are, in fact, moving in the right direction.

I'm willing to be patient and let them do their work. To me, it's a lot like spring cleaning. My house almost always ends up looking worse for a while before I'm done.
While I get what you're saying I think they've also been either a little too hasty and determined to make a complete sweep of the team or too slow. The fact is we're still not a good team, and to some extent I feel like people tend to excuse the FO just because the Maloofs owned the team a year ago. Yes the Maloofs were bad, yes they created a bad culture, but at the end of the day basketball players are basketball players. If you coach them right and hold them accountable you win games. Is IT held accountable for bad defense? Was MT held accountable for bad defense? For all the talk of culture change and what not are we really that much better of a team than we were at this time last season? Or the season before last? Personally I am strongly inclined to believe that we are simply going to hear the same frmo Malone for the rest of the season - guys not taking pride in defense, not sharing the ball, not playing to win yadayada. It just gets old after awhile, which brings me back to my first statement. Is the problem the players - in which case clearly you still need to get rid of some of the "old guard" (and how Salmons and PPat are playing in Toronto seems to disagree with this notion - they seem to be doing fine over there). Or is it that you could have kept 80% of the same players and just given them time? Or perhaps Coach Malone isn't as great as we thought?

There are just so many questions still unanswered, and despite all the changes we've made I don't feel like anything has progressed. The roster is still extremely uncertain. The only thing that we can say for sure is that the team is going to stay in Sacramento. And as an international fan that isn't something that is as valuable to me as it is to you local folk. I want to see this team improve and frankly I haven't. Prior to the season we all talked about how the Suns and Jazz were tanking. The blasted Suns are doing so well, and we are doing worst than the Utah Jazz! If that doesn't concern us fans the slightest bit then something is dreadfully wrong. When does culture and blaming the Maloofs become a simple excuse for us being as bad as we are?
 
#11
There probably is no right answer due to exactly what you are getting at - defining 'the culture' will probably be a bit different for everyone.
If the leadership is successful in communicating, building and implementing their vision, then there should be a clear, agreed upon definition of that vision is.

I'd say as long as their vision for the culture hasn't changed since day one and they continue to make decisions that flow from that vision, then that alone is a quiet success. Especially, compared to the old regime. If the FO start deviating from their original plan, that's when it becomes worrisome and creates distrust and inconsistency.
 
#12
I have seen a team that works hard and is undermanned versus the rest of the league. So far as I can see the culture is:

Coach is in charge, owner has his back - no whining about minutes. Nobody has undermined this coach (except arguable the gm lol) and that is fantastic.
Hard work on defense. I have seen this, albeit with no talent on defense... there has been at least hard work.
Aggressive front office - environment of continuous improvement. Bold move to take on Rudy Gay for scraps, Maloofs would never have done it.
Bad ass mentality. Vivek called DMC a "badass". Malone says "make them feel you on defense". We got Reggie Evans and Quincy Acy.

Bottom line, considering how crappy the talent is, I'm happy with this team's performance this year. They've been a tough beat at home - while maintaining a nice draft position.

I'm all in with Vivek and Malone. All in. And I think they are evolving the culture .. gradually.
 
#13
i have to admit, i remain a bit underwhelmed by michael malone after the promising offseason media sessions that revealed his philosophy. it's disappointing to me that he's preached defense without anything that resembles results, has even called himself out for the hypocrisy of not sending guys to the bench when they fail to give an effort on defense, yet continues to do almost nothing about it...

it frustrates me that isaiah thomas continues to be a tremendously weak defensive link in the starting lineup, as well as a largely undisciplined chucker, and continues to play alarmingly excessive minutes. that's not to say that i have any kind of sustained belief in jimmer fredette or ray mccallum as alternatives; my criticism of jimmer is well-documented, as is my skepticism of mccallum's potential. but this season is lost, and it has been for some time...

that said, i want to see discipline on the court. i actually want to see this "culture change" that was so heavily advertised in the offseason. i want to see ball movement in the starting unit. i want to see consistent effort on defense. i want to see players get the hook for repeatedly hoisting quick shots. i want to see players get the hook for repeatedly blowing defensive assignments...

with the proper motivation, demarcus cousins has become an increasingly sturdy low-post defender. though he's not always effective, i see jason thompson competing on the defensive end. the same goes for aaron gray and quincy acy. and even though malone was surprisingly quick to throw marcus thornton under the bus, there were definitely times that i saw thornton scrapping on defense more convincingly than any other guard on this roster. he had no long term future with this team, and i'm not bothered one bit that he was traded, but again, malone's self-described hypocrisy has been disappointing to me...

of course, nothing will set this particular roster on a winning path. more moves need to be made. but, until they are, i want to see the ball move side to side, deliberately, and i want to see this team take pride in its effort on defense, deliberately...
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#14
The new "culture" according to Malone/PDA included "no selfishness", hard work all the time, sharing the ball, team stuff. While they tend to play hard much of the time, the sharing vs. ball hogging has not taken root. When they share and pass the ball 3-4 time during a possession and get to the open man, most of the time they get 2-3 points. When one person has the ball more than half, if not all of the clock and mainly looks for his shot, TO's increase and points decrease and worse those who may have been open reduce the effort to get open since they feel they won't get the shot op anyway.

If Malone wants to develop the young core then we need to see McCallum and McLemore and DWill playing hard and sharing and getting the ball when their open. With Cuz and Gay in there as well.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#15
Yeah you know, this is a decent thread, because that has been an ongoing ? all season.


The best translation of 'the culture" so far just seems to be "guys we selected". Anything held over has been deemed automatically evil. But its not as if the things the new management has brought in are any better. And I am beginning to sniff either desperation or cowardice in their refusal to admit that.

I do think there has been some advance in the acquisition of low level roleplayers. But only some. We have Evans and Acy and Gray types now to replace Chuck and Aldrich etc. Some toughness maybe. By system and personnel we have done the 100% anti-Petrie/Smart everybody get together and have a 12 man kumbayla shootout there. We're all equals! Now instead we are completely hierarchal. You would think that would totally change the feel of the team, but it doesn't seem to have changed much. I see the potential for some toughness, but is it translating? Its like we need some keystone or missing ingredient to bring it all together.

There has to be some shade thrown toward the coach when he comes in talking about wanting to 1) play defense; and 2) end the culture of selfishness, and 2/3 of the way through the season we are 29th in the league in defense and 29th in the league in assists. There is just something in the air at Arco. A stubborn malaise that refuses to lift. I like Malone, did before we got him, still do. But part of me still really wishes we had gone out and brought in a longtime established winning coach so that you could at least further pinpoint the cause of our continuing struggles. Right now we have turned over something like TEN players since last season, and yet statistically still look the same. We aren't winning, defending, or passing, and that's the same story it has been ever since the Magoofs fired Adelman.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#16
...There has to be some shade thrown toward the coach when he comes in talking about wanting to 1) play defense; and 2) end the culture of selfishness, and 2/3 of the way through the season we are 29th in the league in defense and 29th in the league in assists. There is just something in the air at Arco. A stubborn malaise that refuses to lift. I like Malone, did before we got him, still do. But part of me still really wishes we had gone out and brought in a longtime established winning coach so that you could at least further pinpoint the cause of our continuing struggles. Right now we have turned over something like TEN players since last season, and yet statistically still look the same. We aren't winning, defending, or passing, and that's the same story it has been ever since the Magoofs fired Adelman.
And that's the most perplexing part. Do we need to get a tribal shaman in there to do a thorough purification ceremony?

I still have faith that things are darkest before the dawn. But that's me - the purple-tinted glasses-wearing homer fan who has to believe in a brighter tomorrow. I can't shake the feeling that this time is different, that this time they're going to finish breaking all the eggs and doing all the yucky stuff that is part and parcel of creating a beautiful fluffy omelet.
 
#17
I have seen a team that works hard and is undermanned versus the rest of the league. So far as I can see the culture is:

Coach is in charge, owner has his back - no whining about minutes. Nobody has undermined this coach (except arguable the gm lol) and that is fantastic.
Hard work on defense. I have seen this, albeit with no talent on defense... there has been at least hard work.
Aggressive front office - environment of continuous improvement. Bold move to take on Rudy Gay for scraps, Maloofs would never have done it.
Bad ass mentality. Vivek called DMC a "badass". Malone says "make them feel you on defense". We got Reggie Evans and Quincy Acy.

Bottom line, considering how crappy the talent is, I'm happy with this team's performance this year. They've been a tough beat at home - while maintaining a nice draft position.

I'm all in with Vivek and Malone. All in. And I think they are evolving the culture .. gradually.
I keep hearing people say how crappy our talent is, yet for years and years EVERYONE in the league has never doubted the Kings' talent. It has always been about fit, about the need for leadership, coaching etc. I do not believe one single bit that talent is our problem. Going into the season we were far far more talented on paper than the Jazz or Suns, and that was even before we had Rudy Gay! Are we the most talented team? Of course not! But we sure as hell are far more talented than Utah, or the Lakers (who despite running out a team that hadn't played together, with no all star talent playing regular minutes and has just been marred by injuries has the same record that we do), or the Magic. Philly, as much as they have been losing, have essentially lost 3 more games than we have.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#18
It's the same old culture of losing and not giving full effort at both ends and that's cause of the players not the coach. Lots of selfish play by a number of players it's at times depressing to watch but that's where we are STILL at.

A lot of our players don't really understand what it takes to win and really don't seem to care or put a consistant effort into playing smart, effecient team ball.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#19
It's the same old culture of losing and not giving full effort at both ends and that's cause of the players not the coach. Lots of selfish play by a number of players it's at times depressing to watch but that's where we are STILL at.

A lot of our players don't really understand what it takes to win and really don't seem to care or put a consistant effort into playing smart, effecient team ball.
OK but what is your point as to the "new culture"?
 
#21
Is it better than it was at the beginning of the season?

What exactly is "the culture"? If memory serves, Malone has described the culture as high work ethic, commitment to defense and selflessness. Somebody can help me out here. What other attributes describe "culture"?
i think you are correct, Malone wanted the culture to be hard working, unselfish and take pride in Defense.

having a selfish Point Guard that doesn't play any defense might be hurting the development of that culture, IMO.
 
#22
Yeah you know, this is a decent thread, because that has been an ongoing ? all season.


The best translation of 'the culture" so far just seems to be "guys we selected". Anything held over has been deemed automatically evil. But its not as if the things the new management has brought in are any better. And I am beginning to sniff either desperation or cowardice in their refusal to admit that.

I do think there has been some advance in the acquisition of low level roleplayers. But only some. We have Evans and Acy and Gray types now to replace Chuck and Aldrich etc. Some toughness maybe. By system and personnel we have done the 100% anti-Petrie/Smart everybody get together and have a 12 man kumbayla shootout there. We're all equals! Now instead we are completely hierarchal. You would think that would totally change the feel of the team, but it doesn't seem to have changed much. I see the potential for some toughness, but is it translating? Its like we need some keystone or missing ingredient to bring it all together.

There has to be some shade thrown toward the coach when he comes in talking about wanting to 1) play defense; and 2) end the culture of selfishness, and 2/3 of the way through the season we are 29th in the league in defense and 29th in the league in assists. There is just something in the air at Arco. A stubborn malaise that refuses to lift. I like Malone, did before we got him, still do. But part of me still really wishes we had gone out and brought in a longtime established winning coach so that you could at least further pinpoint the cause of our continuing struggles. Right now we have turned over something like TEN players since last season, and yet statistically still look the same. We aren't winning, defending, or passing, and that's the same story it has been ever since the Magoofs fired Adelman.
I will trust your data that stats are the same.
Considering that we lost one of our top two players for nothing, and limited number games with both Guy and Cousins healthy, having the same stats is actually improvement.
Cant replace sugar with salt and expect better taste. Keeping the taste the same is a miracle.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
I will trust your data that stats are the same.
Considering that we lost one of our top two players for nothing, and limited number games with both Guy and Cousins healthy, having the same stats is actually improvement.
Cant replace sugar with salt and expect better taste. Keeping the taste the same is a miracle.
Second verse, same as the first:

Kings 13-14: Opp Pts 103.5 (26th); Opp FG% .464 (27th) Opp 3pt% .372 (27th); Pts For 101.1 (13th); 19.4 Ast (29th)
Kings 12-13: Opp Pts 105.1 (30th); Opp FG% .472 (28th) Opp 3pt% .355 (13th); Pts For 100.2 (10th); 20.8 Ast (25th)

If I just showed you those stats, would you think that Keith Smart had ever been replaced? What's doubly odd is that we got rid of that cancerous ballhog Tyreke too, and I was quite sure after reading the board last year that that would have fixed everything.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#24
When I think back to how many wide open three pointers we gave up last season, it's incomprehensible to me that we were ranked that "highly" in Opp. 3PT%.
 
#25
We aren't winning, defending, or passing, and that's the same story it has been ever since the Magoofs fired Adelman.
Truly the turning point of the franchise.

There's been half a dozen coaches since 2007 (Muss, Theus, Natt, Westphal, Smart, Malone), surely we can rule that out as the problem.
 
#26
Second verse, same as the first:

Kings 13-14: Opp Pts 103.5 (26th); Opp FG% .464 (27th) Opp 3pt% .372 (27th); Pts For 101.1 (13th); 19.4 Ast (29th)
Kings 12-13: Opp Pts 105.1 (30th); Opp FG% .472 (28th) Opp 3pt% .355 (13th); Pts For 100.2 (10th); 20.8 Ast (25th)

If I just showed you those stats, would you think that Keith Smart had ever been replaced? What's doubly odd is that we got rid of that cancerous ballhog Tyreke too, and I was quite sure after reading the board last year that that would have fixed everything.
I think the defense has improved quite a bit considering we had Tyreke, Hayes, Salmons and then Douglas and Aldrich for part of the year with Smart. Now we have almost no defenders and were giving up less points while scoring more, so it's not just a case of slowing down the offense to give up less points on D.

We probably could have been a mid pack defensive team last year if Malone was here.
 
#27
Truly the turning point of the franchise.

There's been half a dozen coaches since 2007 (Muss, Theus, Natt, Westphal, Smart, Malone), surely we can rule that out as the problem.
Rick Adelman was the most valuable piece from that 'golden era'. I truly believe that without him, nothing close to that amount of winning would have ever happened. He is a coach who knows how to get the most out of players who fit into his style and system. The way he got the most out of players like Peja and Kevin Martin, was just brilliant
 
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#28
Second verse, same as the first:

Kings 13-14: Opp Pts 103.5 (26th); Opp FG% .464 (27th) Opp 3pt% .372 (27th); Pts For 101.1 (13th); 19.4 Ast (29th)
Kings 12-13: Opp Pts 105.1 (30th); Opp FG% .472 (28th) Opp 3pt% .355 (13th); Pts For 100.2 (10th); 20.8 Ast (25th)

If I just showed you those stats, would you think that Keith Smart had ever been replaced? What's doubly odd is that we got rid of that cancerous ballhog Tyreke too, and I was quite sure after reading the board last year that that would have fixed everything.
wow our assists have actually gone down after ball pounding Tyreke left? imagine that
 
#29
Rick Adelman was the most valuable piece from that 'golden era'. I truly believe that without him, nothing close to that amount of winning would have ever happened. He is a coach who knows how to get the most out of players who fit into his style and system. The way he got the most out of players like Peja and Kevin Martin, was just brilliant
Those teams were pretty loaded. It had a lot more to do with Weber, Vlade and the rest of the players than it did with the coach.