Is tanking "cheating"? Poll added
- Thread starter JCTNKINGFAN
- Start date
LOL you do know that the Kings tanked last year to keep their pick right? We gave minutes to PapafreakingGiannis. So I guess we're cultureless too?
Not directed at you, but the Kings do this crap every year. They win a bunch of meaningless games towards the end of the season to take themselves out of a top 5 pick. IF THEY WANT TO WIN, WHY CANT THEY WIN GAMES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SEASON? I didn't see any growths from those late season wins.
Not directed at you, but the Kings do this crap every year. They win a bunch of meaningless games towards the end of the season to take themselves out of a top 5 pick. IF THEY WANT TO WIN, WHY CANT THEY WIN GAMES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SEASON? I didn't see any growths from those late season wins.
Every year the Kings win meaningless games and then wonder why they never get any better. Culture my ***, too bad it's infinitely inferior to talent, which the Kings don't have enough of.
This will eventually cost Joerger and Vlade their jobs in a couple years. Extended periods of mediocrity don't bode well for coaches and GMs.
This will eventually cost Joerger and Vlade their jobs in a couple years. Extended periods of mediocrity don't bode well for coaches and GMs.
Do you have kids? I am coaching my 8-year-olds baseball team, and before tryouts got underway I told him to sand bag so I wouldn’t have to lose my first round draft pick.
When I saw him lined up with all the other kids I ran over to him and whispered to him to forget my suggestion of “tanking” the tryouts and go as hard as his little heart sees fit.
This is similar to Joerger refusing to put his guys in a position to intentionally lose. Do you get this at all? Or does your desire for the Kings to be in the playoff trump all else?
It just isn’t right. It is shameless and embarrassing what these other teams are doing. If we win 25 games than we win 25 games. I don’t know why this is such a hard concept to fathom.
Judging by the heart and chemistry I see from these Baby Kings, we will win a lot more than 25. I want them to get to the playoffs by playing for eachother with heart and hustle.
Stooping to the level of these embarasent of teams is not the answer. So let me ask you this Android, what would you have them do? What should Joerger do to ensure they lose?
When I saw him lined up with all the other kids I ran over to him and whispered to him to forget my suggestion of “tanking” the tryouts and go as hard as his little heart sees fit.
This is similar to Joerger refusing to put his guys in a position to intentionally lose. Do you get this at all? Or does your desire for the Kings to be in the playoff trump all else?
It just isn’t right. It is shameless and embarrassing what these other teams are doing. If we win 25 games than we win 25 games. I don’t know why this is such a hard concept to fathom.
Judging by the heart and chemistry I see from these Baby Kings, we will win a lot more than 25. I want them to get to the playoffs by playing for eachother with heart and hustle.
Stooping to the level of these embarasent of teams is not the answer. So let me ask you this Android, what would you have them do? What should Joerger do to ensure they lose?
Don’t blame Joerger at all. I blame the front office for putting us this situation. No need to have Temple, Carter, Kosta, ZBo all on this team, give me two of them, play heavy youth, bring in some gleaguers that may have a role and naturally lose games. If they win then so be it atleast we tried.
But I am going to ask you since this team has been bad for so long, and none of the anti tankers seem to think is possible, but what happens when we only win 25 games next year, then what happens?
But I am going to ask you since this team has been bad for so long, and none of the anti tankers seem to think is possible, but what happens when we only win 25 games next year, then what happens?
Not sure you are actually watching these games....Skal, Fox, BB8 are winning these games...not the vets you have such an issue with.
It is well established ZBo is actually good for the tank. Temple cant hit the broad side of a barn. Kosta is solid, but not the reason we win.
And don’t you dare diss signing of VC, he is a legend. He us exactly the kind of former superstar are young guys should learn from.
But you are right, it is all the FO fault. Had they signed some crappier FA, we would be sitting pretty with 15 wins right meow. Makes perfect sense.
It is well established ZBo is actually good for the tank. Temple cant hit the broad side of a barn. Kosta is solid, but not the reason we win.
And don’t you dare diss signing of VC, he is a legend. He us exactly the kind of former superstar are young guys should learn from.
But you are right, it is all the FO fault. Had they signed some crappier FA, we would be sitting pretty with 15 wins right meow. Makes perfect sense.
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So you think the teams that are tanking harder than us are truly better than us? But they are just playing possum for a draft pick?
I just dont see it. Not a single one of those teams are better than the Kings. I could see them winning 25 games next year.
We will win 30+, I guarandamntee it. If they don’t, I will leave the forum, and you never have to hear my optimism again. I promise.
I just dont see it. Not a single one of those teams are better than the Kings. I could see them winning 25 games next year.
We will win 30+, I guarandamntee it. If they don’t, I will leave the forum, and you never have to hear my optimism again. I promise.
No, you won't leave. I won't let you. 
Android, you care more for this team than your average fan does for theirs. I can see that, but you have to see there is no out tanking the tankers.
I came to this realization in the recent Brooklyn game. You would be better off embracing the team.
Embrace the team, not the tank.
Not even remotely close. "We" are celebrating this win because our young Kings showed promise, they played their hearts out ad they beat the Warriors on their home turf TWICE in one season, something they haven't done since 2002. It's an affirmation of hope, a sign that things have turned around and are heading in the right direction.
In a vacuum, I would take a healthy a Gasol, Conley and a first overall pick.
See they shut down Conley even though he was suppose to play after his injuries and are giving nights off to Gasol and Evans. They understood that they will be competing for a playoff spot wit they addition of a top 3 pick.
See they shut down Conley even though he was suppose to play after his injuries and are giving nights off to Gasol and Evans. They understood that they will be competing for a playoff spot wit they addition of a top 3 pick.
We had the top chance to land the first overall pick and dropped to 4. There are no guarantees in the lottery. And Im talking about complete team. There is more it than perceived overall talent.
Conley > Fox currently. But how long will that be the case?
Gasol is better than any of our bigs, but I am talking about from top to bottom.
As Kings fans we have a tendency to undervalue our guys, similar to how when you look in the mirror you see yourself in a negative light more often than a positive one.
Kings fans are one of those rare groups who don’t struggle with the “homer” effect.
We have been at this too long, and it has been too bumpy of a ride to sugar coat things or lie to ourselves.
We have a solid up and coming team. Would it be better with the #1 overall pick? Of course it would. But your theory of never using the vets would not have netted us the #1 pick.
Conley > Fox currently. But how long will that be the case?
Gasol is better than any of our bigs, but I am talking about from top to bottom.
As Kings fans we have a tendency to undervalue our guys, similar to how when you look in the mirror you see yourself in a negative light more often than a positive one.
Kings fans are one of those rare groups who don’t struggle with the “homer” effect.
We have been at this too long, and it has been too bumpy of a ride to sugar coat things or lie to ourselves.
We have a solid up and coming team. Would it be better with the #1 overall pick? Of course it would. But your theory of never using the vets would not have netted us the #1 pick.
As a moderator, I have now read the post in question in depth three times, once when it was posted, once when it was reported for moderation, and now, with you having specifically called it out. While the post takes a strong position, I still don't believe it deserved to be sanctioned. The writer made the case that tanking is cheating and that therefore if you are advocating for tanking you are advocating for cheating. I'm sure some will disagree in whole, some will disagree in part, and some will agree with this case, but it seems a fair point to raise.
It's true that the tone of the post was mildly combative. Then again, read through any discussion on tanking on KF.com in the last several months and tell me that the entire tone of the conversation is anything less than mildly combative, from both sides. The entire discussion is bordering on toxic, as evidenced by the fact that posters on both sides of the issue have either left the board or are threatening to leave the board over it.
Frankly, because of the toxic nature of the discussion and the seeming general inability of folks on either side of the issue to treat it in a restrained manner, I would prefer it if the entire discussion were off-limits for the time being. Of course, that seems to put us in the moderation business between a bit of a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, if we allow people to lash out at each other, then everybody gets upset. But if we try to tone down the conversation then we've turned the place into North Korea, and we can't have that now, can we? Outside of everybody voluntarily deciding to treat everybody - EVEN THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH THEM - with respect, I don't think there's much of a way to satisfactorily solve this problem.
But I can't magically make everybody try to respect everybody else, and I really am at kind of a loss for what to do, so...here's a .gif of a puppy.
It's true that the tone of the post was mildly combative. Then again, read through any discussion on tanking on KF.com in the last several months and tell me that the entire tone of the conversation is anything less than mildly combative, from both sides. The entire discussion is bordering on toxic, as evidenced by the fact that posters on both sides of the issue have either left the board or are threatening to leave the board over it.
Frankly, because of the toxic nature of the discussion and the seeming general inability of folks on either side of the issue to treat it in a restrained manner, I would prefer it if the entire discussion were off-limits for the time being. Of course, that seems to put us in the moderation business between a bit of a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, if we allow people to lash out at each other, then everybody gets upset. But if we try to tone down the conversation then we've turned the place into North Korea, and we can't have that now, can we? Outside of everybody voluntarily deciding to treat everybody - EVEN THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH THEM - with respect, I don't think there's much of a way to satisfactorily solve this problem.
But I can't magically make everybody try to respect everybody else, and I really am at kind of a loss for what to do, so...here's a .gif of a puppy.
As a moderator, I have now read the post in question in depth three times, once when it was posted, once when it was reported for moderation, and now, with you having specifically called it out. While the post takes a strong position, I still don't believe it deserved to be sanctioned. The writer made the case that tanking is cheating and that therefore if you are advocating for tanking you are advocating for cheating. I'm sure some will disagree in whole, some will disagree in part, and some will agree with this case, but it seems a fair point to raise.
It's true that the tone of the post was mildly combative. Then again, read through any discussion on tanking on KF.com in the last several months and tell me that the entire tone of the conversation is anything less than mildly combative, from both sides. The entire discussion is bordering on toxic, as evidenced by the fact that posters on both sides of the issue have either left the board or are threatening to leave the board over it.
Frankly, because of the toxic nature of the discussion and the seeming general inability of folks on either side of the issue to treat it in a restrained manner, I would prefer it if the entire discussion were off-limits for the time being. Of course, that seems to put us in the moderation business between a bit of a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, if we allow people to lash out at each other, then everybody gets upset. But if we try to tone down the conversation then we've turned the place into North Korea, and we can't have that now, can we? Outside of everybody voluntarily deciding to treat everybody - EVEN THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH THEM - with respect, I don't think there's much of a way to satisfactorily solve this problem.
But I can't magically make everybody try to respect everybody else, and I really am at kind of a loss for what to do, so...here's a .gif of a puppy.
It's true that the tone of the post was mildly combative. Then again, read through any discussion on tanking on KF.com in the last several months and tell me that the entire tone of the conversation is anything less than mildly combative, from both sides. The entire discussion is bordering on toxic, as evidenced by the fact that posters on both sides of the issue have either left the board or are threatening to leave the board over it.
Frankly, because of the toxic nature of the discussion and the seeming general inability of folks on either side of the issue to treat it in a restrained manner, I would prefer it if the entire discussion were off-limits for the time being. Of course, that seems to put us in the moderation business between a bit of a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, if we allow people to lash out at each other, then everybody gets upset. But if we try to tone down the conversation then we've turned the place into North Korea, and we can't have that now, can we? Outside of everybody voluntarily deciding to treat everybody - EVEN THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH THEM - with respect, I don't think there's much of a way to satisfactorily solve this problem.
But I can't magically make everybody try to respect everybody else, and I really am at kind of a loss for what to do, so...here's a .gif of a puppy.
I’m happy to play it either way. But this board purports to be moderated in a way that demands respect. It appears that only occurs when your view aligns with those of the moderators.
I think that's a bit of an over-read. For one, "without morals" is certainly far, far stronger than anything I read in that comment. And I don't think he is calling people who favor tanking cheaters - he is arguing that it is hypocritical to support tanking but oppose cheating because he sees them as the same thing.
Well, I've certainly been on a board that was the way you describe and been a victim of that sort of mentality from the moderators. I would never want to have one side of a discussion simply silenced here, and I don't see that as being the case at all. In fact, outside of the game threads, where people's enjoyment of the games was being hurt in real time by the level of negativity, I believe there has been very little moderation on the tanking issue. I think a little extra decorum in the game threads is probably not excessive moderation.
Ultimately, what runs one afoul of moderation is not ideas, it's behavior. And in the case of the tanking argument I think we've been relatively lenient on what sort of behavior we have allowed. Yes, we've allowed a comment that argues that tanking is cheating. But at the same time, we've allowed the other side of the argument to, for only one example upthread, complain that the moderation staff is like Kim Jong-Un. Perhaps we've been too lenient on both sides. But the fact of the matter is that the perception of moderation is asymmetric. The grievance that one feels for having just one of their own posts deleted is hardly matched by the gratification received for seeing 10 posts from the other side deleted - and that's compounded by the fact that if we delete things fast enough, the only posts you know are deleted are your own. There's an argument to be made that the more we moderate, the angrier both sides are going to get, each feeling that they're the only side being moderated. It's beginning to feel like we can't fix this argument - we have to wait for it to fade into civility on its own, I guess.
Well, I've certainly been on a board that was the way you describe and been a victim of that sort of mentality from the moderators. I would never want to have one side of a discussion simply silenced here, and I don't see that as being the case at all. In fact, outside of the game threads, where people's enjoyment of the games was being hurt in real time by the level of negativity, I believe there has been very little moderation on the tanking issue. I think a little extra decorum in the game threads is probably not excessive moderation.
Ultimately, what runs one afoul of moderation is not ideas, it's behavior. And in the case of the tanking argument I think we've been relatively lenient on what sort of behavior we have allowed. Yes, we've allowed a comment that argues that tanking is cheating. But at the same time, we've allowed the other side of the argument to, for only one example upthread, complain that the moderation staff is like Kim Jong-Un. Perhaps we've been too lenient on both sides. But the fact of the matter is that the perception of moderation is asymmetric. The grievance that one feels for having just one of their own posts deleted is hardly matched by the gratification received for seeing 10 posts from the other side deleted - and that's compounded by the fact that if we delete things fast enough, the only posts you know are deleted are your own. There's an argument to be made that the more we moderate, the angrier both sides are going to get, each feeling that they're the only side being moderated. It's beginning to feel like we can't fix this argument - we have to wait for it to fade into civility on its own, I guess.
As someone who is at a lot of team boards, this board is over moderated. Its very structured and it def reflects the personalities of certain moderators. IMO, this moderator is way too invested in this team to be an objective moderator. Ive always been in favor of a more free wheeling site. The best sites I've been to had moderators who were very seldomly seen but when they did show up, you knew you had really crossed the line. Hey, just my opinion.
Yes, the post at issue was a tad bombastic. Yes, if that type of post was attributed to the other side it would have been sanctioned and deleted at most or given a good tongue lashing at least. A nice "Im not gonna let you ruin my time here" or "you have a bad attitude that is ruining the thread" or a nice snide "why do you bring your negativity here" type of post. The only problem I have is that the 2 sides of the LIN are held to separate standards. The name calling? No big deal. The double standard? Yeah, that blows. Ill settle for having a LIN supporter made a moderator who gives the other side a tongue lashing when your rainbows and unicorn thinking gets out of control because as annoying as you anti tankers think we are, we find you as annoying if not more so.
Oh well. No ones forcing me to stay here. Ive dialed my commenting way back. Dialed my visits back even more. It is what it is.
Unfortunately for all of us on both sides of the LIN, this team is gonna suck for the forseeable future and we are going to be debating this for a long time. Can I tell the future? Damn close. Ive been a fan of one of the worst franchises in sports since 1985. Am I negative? DAMN RIGHT I AM! Because this franchise warrants it. If a poster thinks my attitude is bad or I'm a cheater because I support losing to get a better chance at a higher draft pick, so be it. Guess I'm a cheater. Oh well, If your not cheating your not trying. Hooooooribble.......
"embrace the suck".
Thats for you Tracker........RIP my friend.
Yes, the post at issue was a tad bombastic. Yes, if that type of post was attributed to the other side it would have been sanctioned and deleted at most or given a good tongue lashing at least. A nice "Im not gonna let you ruin my time here" or "you have a bad attitude that is ruining the thread" or a nice snide "why do you bring your negativity here" type of post. The only problem I have is that the 2 sides of the LIN are held to separate standards. The name calling? No big deal. The double standard? Yeah, that blows. Ill settle for having a LIN supporter made a moderator who gives the other side a tongue lashing when your rainbows and unicorn thinking gets out of control because as annoying as you anti tankers think we are, we find you as annoying if not more so.
Oh well. No ones forcing me to stay here. Ive dialed my commenting way back. Dialed my visits back even more. It is what it is.
Unfortunately for all of us on both sides of the LIN, this team is gonna suck for the forseeable future and we are going to be debating this for a long time. Can I tell the future? Damn close. Ive been a fan of one of the worst franchises in sports since 1985. Am I negative? DAMN RIGHT I AM! Because this franchise warrants it. If a poster thinks my attitude is bad or I'm a cheater because I support losing to get a better chance at a higher draft pick, so be it. Guess I'm a cheater. Oh well, If your not cheating your not trying. Hooooooribble.......
"embrace the suck".
Thats for you Tracker........RIP my friend.
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They’re not going to have Gasol next year, my dude. Rumors for a while of how frustrated he’s been with the Grizz management of the situation. Tanking has consequences. Ask Eric Bledsoe how players feel about throwing away a season. The Suns got what, 15 cents on the dollar in that trade? Maybe? Bogdan didn’t come here to tank. Fox didn’t campaign to get drafted here so he could tank. Vince really didn’t come here to tank. He’s not chasing rings, but he wanted to still play some good basketball and be a contributor.