How long would you wait? (merged)

Catalyst · Nov 11, 2004

How long would you wait?

How long do the Kings wait for this team they have to gel and start winning some ball games? A full season? To the trade deadline? Another month?

How long would you wait? How long are you willing to wait?

Would you sacrifice a season without making any moves to see if this team gets their act together?

Myself personally.... If it was my decision, I'd wait until the end of November to make a choice. Sac has a good chance to prove how good they're going to be in the next 9 games. A good mix of teams will be coming to Arco, and Sac has a few road games. Upcoming games against the Suns, Nuggets, Grizzlies, Rockets, Lakers and Timberwolves I think will give us a very good barometer of how good this Kings team is.

At the end of Novemeber, almost 20% of the season will be gone for the Kings.

Bricklayer · Nov 11, 2004

Spurs were 10-10 to start the season last year. They did not tear down the team. Six of our top seven players from last year are back. 5 games into an 82 game season is not the time to panic.

Obviously the team has to show signs of improvement. But if it does no more than get up into the .500 range by the end of November, that's ok given the start. Try to be in the playoff picture and within striking range by the new year, and build momentum after that.

If you tear up the team, swap out major pieces, turnover the coach and entire system mid-stream. That's probably it. Game over and time to rebuild. So you give it as much time as you can. There really is no rush. Plenty of time to rip up the team in the offseason when its easier to make moves and more players are available.

Give them to somewhere around the All-Star break. If we're in danger of dropping out of the playoff picture, sure, you could try something.

VF21 · Nov 11, 2004

Catalyst - I agree with you about waiting AT LEAST until the end of November before even thinking seriously about any possible changes.

I'm not at all sure that either the Raptors game OR the Sonics game is a true indicator of what we can expect to see this year. Granted, I'd much rather see the team perform like they did Tuesday. This is truly a puzzlement - and I just hope Petrie, Adelman, and co. have a better sense of what's going on than most of the fans.

I love this team and will if they end up back in the lottery sweepstakes. It's just hard watching a bunch of guys with so much potential do so poorly.

If we're still scraping the bottom of the barrel come November with no visible improvement, it's gonna be pretty ugly around Kingsfans.com... and I won't be able to blame people.

Those of us from the good old days have said all along that people should appreciate the good years while we have them, because they won't last forever. (In fact, Kingsgurl reminded me of that this morning when we were talking on the phone about the game...) Hopefully, this is a beginning of the year problem that will be corrected. The only way to know for sure is to wait and see...and keep the faith.

Andriod_KiNg · Nov 11, 2004

Its sad watching your team lose like this but i know we can easily turn it around. I was watching the re-run of the game this morning and i saw missed open shots, not getting easy rebounds, and stupid fouls based of frustration, these problems can be easily fixed and we can turn our season around because of the talent we have , but if we keep losing like this i feel that this offseason we need to trade for or draft a dominate goto guy.

VF21 · Nov 11, 2004

A "dominate" go to guy isn't the solution to all problems. Check out the Lakers game against the Grizzlies last night...

Andriod_KiNg · Nov 11, 2004

VF21 said:

Woops i ment to say bigman, sorry, I see guys like KG,TD,Shaq, and the old Webber, that is what wins games, someone in the center of team, a guy big enough to post up, block shots, and pass the ball, sure Webber had a triple double the other day but he relyed and is relying too much on his outside shooting , as for the assists he gets some of cuts and some off made shots , but we need him do it like KG/ TD ,how they take the ball to the rim and dish out to open guy, he needs to put fear into defenses and get them to double teamed and they still have the skills to score or find someone open , we need a guy like that in big games that when the game is relying on him , he will find a way to pull it off , guys like Kobe/T-Mac/Vince Carter can only do so much , but guys like KG and TD, are the type of players that can do it all.

HndsmCelt · Nov 11, 2004

unless a team has some serious problems witgh new guys you almost have to wait untill Dec before you do anything. The obvious cavat being the amost mythincal super sweet deal such as 3 scrubs for
T Mack type situation.

quick dog · Nov 11, 2004

All-Star Break. Any move before that would be reactionary and probably a mistake.

AriesMar27 · Nov 11, 2004

lets just tank the season and pray for a really good rookie... or play hard for the remainder of the season and see what happens.

Mr. S£im Citrus · Nov 11, 2004

Catalyst said:

I don't understand this post, including the portion that I elected not to quote for posterity; how long would I, as a fan, wait for what? Before I do what?

VF21 · Nov 11, 2004

Andriod_KiNg said:

Name the BIG GUY for the Detroit Pistons. Go ahead...I'll wait...

You can't turn Webber into something he's not, anymore than you could teach Vlade to show up for camp in shape every year. I won't bother to defend Webber for not being Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan. That's just silly, IMHO. If Webber can play like he did Tuesday more than like he did last night, we're gonna be fine. The Kings don't rely on a single star. They have a balanced team which makes them so deadly when things are going right. And they'll go right again...

If Bibby, Pedja, Doug and Miller can step up and contribute along with Webber, we'll be more than fine.

Jasna88 · Nov 12, 2004

If they'll play bad and lose the games like now,You don't want to be Kings fan or....

Evenstar · Nov 12, 2004

i will wait until the all star break to judge this years kings team. having christie out is hurting us a lot more then i thought it would. once he gets fully healthy and back into the flow of things, we should be playing better then we are now. it's going to take time, and unfortuatly, patience is one thing i don't have, so i could get a bit cranky waiting

just a warning

GO KINGS!

Superman · Nov 12, 2004

Bricklayer said:

Good post. No rush ripping the team apart just for the sake of making it look like we're doing something; we can wait until the offseason before going into full-fledged rebuilding mode.

Now if we're hanging in the playoff picture and a move becomes available, we make it if it's going to drastically improve the talent on the team. If not, we let the team that's been together for so long have another crack at it.

Superman · Nov 12, 2004

VF21 said:

Exactly. Webber had a soft triple double, is what it sounds like to me. That's rich.

That having been said, 2-13 is unacceptable. If we're going to play better, it's going to have to start with Chris. And Mike and Doug and Brad and Bobby will feed off of him. Peja is going to have to get his head right, and that has nothing to do with how Chris plays.

SacTownKid · Nov 12, 2004

Superman said:

I agree. Chris has to be the focus of the team, not based on shooting the ball though. He is a superb passer and if he dishes the ball like he is capable of and slows the game down a little in the half court, like Tuesday, well be cool.

Big Cuz 15 · Nov 13, 2004

if the kings dont make the playoffs...

the way things are going... and IF the team doesn't get their act together...
is it time to dismantle the team? i've been pondering this idea for a while considering the growing age of the veterans. webb, christie, bobby jackson are over 30...
miller, stojakovic are getting up there also..
would it be a fitting time to do it IF they dont make the playoffs?
i'd like to hear some of your takes guys

piksi · Nov 13, 2004

KMart23 said:

the way things are going... and IF the team doesn't get their act together...
is it time to dismantle the team? i've been pondering this idea for a while considering the growing age of the veterans. webb, christie, bobby jackson are over 30...
miller, stojakovic are getting up there also..
would it be a fitting time to do it IF they dont make the playoffs?
i'd like to hear some of your takes guys

dismantle - meaning exactly what ?

Kingaholic · Nov 13, 2004

I think he means tearing up the core of the team. Such as trading Bibby, Peja, or Webber

piksi · Nov 13, 2004

Kingaholic said:

More like all of them

jeffjcalweb · Nov 13, 2004

before you up & dismantle the team because players like peja & miller are "getting up there", maybe check some facts.

miller is only 28 years old man! he is just now entering his prime and you find me a better center than miller THAT IS AVAILABLE. don't say shaq, don't say duncan cuz that's just plain stupid. miller's numbers have gone up every year, and now that he is sac's full time center, there's no reason to think that won't continue. in fact, miller is the only player over these first 5 games that has been close to consistent.

peja by all accounts is also just entering his prime. although i'm not opposed to a trade, it certainly shouldn't be due to his age.

bibby, ditto. rock solid shooter, solid PG w/his decisions. no worries at all w/bibby as long as you don't expect him to play defense like ron artest.

as for christie & b.jax, those are valid concerns (age). christie doesn't look to have lost any of his physical talents, but i'd like to see a younger SG that is a little more agressive on offense. i know christie is our best individual defender but folks let's be objective, it takes more than just one "stopper" on defense to impact the game, you need good team defense.

bjax, struggling no doubt. his intensity is there, but he seems to be playing at a level under what we've seen the past couple of years.

webber, silly to even bring him up. unless you can convince isiah thomas to take webber he's not getting traded. even if isaih were to make a deal, what the heck does NY have that we would want?

whew. 'k all done. almost.... the kings need to focus on improving their bench. i think the core of this team for the next 2-3 seasons is solid, but they just have no solid, consistent bench play.

RaY Z · Nov 13, 2004

DRAFT TIME BABY!!!!! ... i know we can make the playoffs..... but i wouldnt mind the kings drafting a top 15 pick again.... make sure we make the right choice though cuz weve made many stupid top 15 picks (ala abdul-wahad, pervis ellison....) besides picking stojakovic...

BJax24 · Nov 13, 2004

KMart23 said:

it's a little early for dismantling this team. remember, last year the spurs started 10-10 and ended up just fine. patience is the key

WalMatt23 · Nov 13, 2004

RaY Z said:

sheesh, we're only 5 games in & we're already considering ourselves a lottery team??!

RaY Z · Nov 13, 2004

WalMatt23 said:

didnt say that... i said wouldnt mind having a top 15 pick.... but i didnt metion anything about us being a lottery team....

Kingsgurl · Nov 13, 2004

Is this the thread for posting our preferred method of dealing with missing the play-offs, high buildings or rusty razor blades?

Kev.in · Nov 13, 2004

It's pretty simple. If the Kings miss the playoffs, at least half the roster will be different on opening day of '05-'06 and there'll be a new head coach who'll probably have some influence on the new direction of the team.
With a lottery team, there'd be no changing Peja's mind, no reason for Bobby Jackson to re-up in '06 (and no reason for the team to give him a multiyear deal) so they're getting traded. Doug would probably be expendable too. Greg Ostertag is useless, so he would probably get moved in a deal with one of our talented players.
Miller, Bibby and the youngsters (Martin, Songaila, maybe Barnes/Evans) are keepers. Webber is probably untradeable, but the Nuggets dealt a bunch of overpaid, injury prone guys over the last few years for their quick rebuild so you never know.

So you take what you're left with and start filling in the rest. That's what happens, drastic changes when a team drastically underachieves.

Andriod_KiNg · Nov 13, 2004

I wouldnt say completly dismantle, we have to keep Bibby, Miller, Jackson , and a choice of either Webber or Peja, and then maybe get rid of the rest.

VF21 · Nov 13, 2004

This is already being discussed. While personally I think it's WAY TOO premature to even be thinking about something like this, I don't think we need more than one thread.

Bricklayer · Nov 13, 2004

Kev.in said:

Yep.

IF we were to somehow miss the playoffs(!) I agree those would be the survivors. Be a whole new team, rebuilding etc. with only our young guys under contract returning.

But that is all EXTREMELY premature.

How long would you wait? (merged)

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