Harry Giles article: By, Harry Giles

#2
Nice informative article from Giles prospective. I think most will like his honesty, and his ability to be introspective. He comes across as a very intelligent and dedicated young man. Enjoy!

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/harry-giles-sacramento-kings/
Really love that webstie, Jeter's got a winner.

Another great article giving you a perspective you simply cannot get anywhere else. These things make rooting for these guys fun. Great piece.
 
#5
On the actual subject of the article... I REALLY like Giles' attitude here. Combined with a smart rehab approach, we may very well have our future starting C -- NBA 3.0 style. I simply love the pick, and love the risk Vlade is willing to take here. He's got the talent, the attitude, and it's a matter of rehabbing the injuries, which, as has been said before are contact injuries... actually a good sign, since it's not due to a mechanical flaw in his body.
 
#6
Harry, everything is forgiven! The area outside Arco was pretty lame. lol.
I'm happy to see he is committed to getting better and is humble about where he is. Anything is possible. I am rooting for Harry!
 
#9
Bumping this back for two reasons.

First, at some point the Kings are gonna take him out for a spin.

Second, I think a lot of Kings fans are wildly over rating his likely career path. On the one hand, I get it. We are fans, unseen player, his talent and potential a few years ago, and looking for a cornerstone.

To me, his upside and issues are similar to Skal. 12 months before he was drafted, Skal was really high on a lot of draft boards. Teams saw elite talent, but after taking stock of him in college, a lot of nba team and smart draft coverage said the same thing “I can see how it would work, but I think it’s unlikely he ever gets there.” A lot of teams passed on him based upon the same grounds. After a hot run in the spring, a lot of Kings fans declared the conventional wisdom wrong. At this point, the predraft assessments of many teams seems to have some merit.

Giles was once an ELITE prospect. The Kings have smartly focused on building up Giles mental strength in private in the bubble of practice, not the pubic microscope of the G League. The rationale is that Giles is fighting his body, brain and confidence at this point. That has merit, but Giles ability to physically capitalize on his former upside seems to be a long shot bet. Again, after taking stock of him in college, lot of nba team and smart draft coverage said the same thing “I can see how it would work, but I think it’s unlikely he ever gets there.” A lot of smart people think he’s a long shot over the long haul. A lot of NBA team didn’t draft him based upon the same grounds over the long haul.

After the draft, it seems like a lot of people got that. Over time, several have started to talk like we’ve got an elite prospect coming. Maybe. But those odds probably aren’t great.

In terms of the number of teams that scored Skal and Giles as longshots, I think it’s reasonable to assume it’s more than just the teams with picks that passed them over based upon their draft boards. Picks in the 15-21 range move a fair amount over the years. If you scored Giles or Skal high and watched the fall like a stone, there were options for smart teams to move in.

Skal holds the keys to his success. If he had the mentality/ heart, he could capitalize on his physical tools. Whereas, whether Giles still has the physical tools or can stay healthy are massive barriers and will loom for many years.

I’m rooting for him. I think a lot of you get this. But I think a bunch of you are wildly off base about Skal.
 
#10
I am a Giles believer. Those skills never go away, even if he never gets the same bounce back. Giles dominated a loaded draft class for multiple years. I don’t think his situation is equivalent to Skal; much more like Brandon Roy.
 
#11
There are reasons why Giles went 20, not 7 like Roy.

Very different reasons why Skal also fell. But still reasons. Reasons that seem valid as Skal remains a project. A tantalizing project, but a project nonetheless
 
#12
Yes, because drafting a big with knee problems is about as risky as it comes. One dropped in the draft because of a knee injury. The other dropped because he can't play defense and has 0 basketball IQ on offense. Giles and Skal are two totally different prospects with totally different floors and ceilings.
 
#13
I am a Giles believer. Those skills never go away, even if he never gets the same bounce back. Giles dominated a loaded draft class for multiple years. I don’t think his situation is equivalent to Skal; much more like Brandon Roy.
The best thing for Giles is Z-Bo. Z-Bo uses skill not athleticism to play and the more Giles can learn from him the longer his career. I heard Giles is working with him prior to practice and that is exactly what he needs to do
 
#17
I still think Giles was drafted based on what we saw from him in highschool. A 167earold is ranked at #1 not only because of where he's at, but where he could go in the future. Unfortunately, the last time Giles played basketball at a high level was in his junior year of higschool. It's been nearly 3 years since then. We have no clue what kind of player he is now. No type of clue where his mental progression is, let alone his basketball progression.

It'll be a waiting game for Giles. I too hope he becomes something special for the Kings, but I'm not counting on anything.
 
#18
I still think Giles was drafted based on what we saw from him in highschool. A 167earold is ranked at #1 not only because of where he's at, but where he could go in the future. Unfortunately, the last time Giles played basketball at a high level was in his junior year of higschool. It's been nearly 3 years since then. We have no clue what kind of player he is now. No type of clue where his mental progression is, let alone his basketball progression.

It'll be a waiting game for Giles. I too hope he becomes something special for the Kings, but I'm not counting on anything.
We have a clue based on anecdotal reports and highlight clips and direct account comparisons to Chris Webber. Of course we have a clue. As far as his mental progression we have a clue based on his interviews, which are impressive. Like De'Aaron Fox he is mature beyond his years. We don't know anything definitively but we have a clue. The reports are he has been impressive in practices and been able to participate without limitations. It is the Kings who are intentionally being conservative because with two ACLs a two year rehab is appropriate so you do not favor one leg over the other, that is, the older injury.

The two year mark I believe is January 2018.

Vlade said he "fell in love" with his game when they had him in pre-draft, that he is "a beautiful" player I believe were his words. Thats a clue too. His vitals relative to other players are clue too where he will fit and how he will project. If you are referring to having a clue with your own two eyes, then fair enough "you have NO clue with your own two eyes against real NBA competition" but we have a semblance of cue based on the aforementioned variables, at least I do.

I think the Kings know (or think) they have something special. They don't want to rush a guy by 3-6 months when he could have a 10-15 year career. Rushing or non-rushing can be quantified. You can measure agility drill performance, maximum squat, deadlift, quad and hamstring strength relative other players and between his legs, etc. There are all sorts of athletic and health and stability and balance standards and thresholds you can give to him to meet and exceed before clearing him to play. This is where the Kings are in the process with him.

The Kings have a clue and a plan behind the scenes, you just can't see it.
 
#19
There are reasons why Giles went 20, not 7 like Roy.
There are always reasons for everything. But that doesn't mean they are good reasons or that the reasons will turn out to be valid.

There's reasons why Isaiah Thomas slipped to the 60th pick in the 2011 draft. But those reasoning has since proven to be wrong.
There's reasons why Frank Mason slipped to the 2nd round and went #34 this past draft. Thus far, he's showing that he should have been drafted higher.
There's reasons why Tom Brady was drafted 199 overall in the 2000 NFL draft. How's that look now?

Giles obviously has injury concerns, and the above players didn't. But the point still applies. Saying that there's a reason he went 20 is a bit of a cop out because it doesn't mean anything at this point in time. The reasons may end up proven invalid and Giles may fulfill the lofty expectations he once had.
 
#21
We have a clue based on anecdotal reports and highlight clips and direct account comparisons to Chris Webber. Of course we have a clue. As far as his mental progression we have a clue based on his interviews, which are impressive. Like De'Aaron Fox he is mature beyond his years. We don't know anything definitively but we have a clue. The reports are he has been impressive in practices and been able to participate without limitations. It is the Kings who are intentionally being conservative because with two ACLs a two year rehab is appropriate so you do not favor one leg over the other, that is, the older injury.

The two year mark I believe is January 2018.

Vlade said he "fell in love" with his game when they had him in pre-draft, that he is "a beautiful" player I believe were his words. Thats a clue too. His vitals relative to other players are clue too where he will fit and how he will project. If you are referring to having a clue with your own two eyes, then fair enough "you have NO clue with your own two eyes against real NBA competition" but we have a semblance of cue based on the aforementioned variables, at least I do.

I think the Kings know (or think) they have something special. They don't want to rush a guy by 3-6 months when he could have a 10-15 year career. Rushing or non-rushing can be quantified. You can measure agility drill performance, maximum squat, deadlift, quad and hamstring strength relative other players and between his legs, etc. There are all sorts of athletic and health and stability and balance standards and thresholds you can give to him to meet and exceed before clearing him to play. This is where the Kings are in the process with him.

The Kings have a clue and a plan behind the scenes, you just can't see it.
I don't understand the C-Webb comparisons. Are people seriously comparing 17yearold Giles to C-Webb? Giles at Duke did not look like anything special. In his limited PT, he looked like another college backup big. To compare him to C-Webb is insane. We haven't seen Giles play at a high level since his junior year of HS. Let that sink in.

Remember, Giles said he was 100% healthy. If he were 100% healthy, why would the Kings hold him back? To make sure he's 500% healthy? There's clearly something going on. I'm not saying it's bad, but if you make a connection between his play in college and his injuries, he's clearly being held back for a reason.

There is a reason why Embiid went #3 even with the injury that many pointed could be Oden-like. Then, there's Giles who went #20. His college tape did not impress me. I'm also not going to put hype around a kid purely due to what I saw 2-3years ago in highschool.
 
#22
I’m frustrated that there has not been even one article or report of any kind on Giles progression in practice. It leads me to believe he will not be ready anytime soon, if ever.
 
#23
Bumping this back for two reasons.

First, at some point the Kings are gonna take him out for a spin.

Second, I think a lot of Kings fans are wildly over rating his likely career path. On the one hand, I get it. We are fans, unseen player, his talent and potential a few years ago, and looking for a cornerstone.

To me, his upside and issues are similar to Skal. 12 months before he was drafted, Skal was really high on a lot of draft boards. Teams saw elite talent, but after taking stock of him in college, a lot of nba team and smart draft coverage said the same thing “I can see how it would work, but I think it’s unlikely he ever gets there.” A lot of teams passed on him based upon the same grounds. After a hot run in the spring, a lot of Kings fans declared the conventional wisdom wrong. At this point, the predraft assessments of many teams seems to have some merit.

Giles was once an ELITE prospect. The Kings have smartly focused on building up Giles mental strength in private in the bubble of practice, not the pubic microscope of the G League. The rationale is that Giles is fighting his body, brain and confidence at this point. That has merit, but Giles ability to physically capitalize on his former upside seems to be a long shot bet. Again, after taking stock of him in college, lot of nba team and smart draft coverage said the same thing “I can see how it would work, but I think it’s unlikely he ever gets there.” A lot of smart people think he’s a long shot over the long haul. A lot of NBA team didn’t draft him based upon the same grounds over the long haul.

After the draft, it seems like a lot of people got that. Over time, several have started to talk like we’ve got an elite prospect coming. Maybe. But those odds probably aren’t great.

In terms of the number of teams that scored Skal and Giles as longshots, I think it’s reasonable to assume it’s more than just the teams with picks that passed them over based upon their draft boards. Picks in the 15-21 range move a fair amount over the years. If you scored Giles or Skal high and watched the fall like a stone, there were options for smart teams to move in.

Skal holds the keys to his success. If he had the mentality/ heart, he could capitalize on his physical tools. Whereas, whether Giles still has the physical tools or can stay healthy are massive barriers and will loom for many years.

I’m rooting for him. I think a lot of you get this. But I think a bunch of you are wildly off base about Skal.
The reasons why they might fail are totally different for Skal and Giles.

Skal suffers from self doubt. He is easily rattled. He doesn’t have a great basketball IQ either. There are genuine skills there for him to be a smooth player if he develops bulldog mentality. He even has some potential as a weakside shot blocker defensively. Strength, defense, rebounding, passing all need work but there are tools there. It’s all mental with him.

Now Giles is a very different risk. His knees are an obvious issue here. Given his age he might recover from them well. I amd not holding my breath but it could happen. Now the thing that I am most worried about is the two years of missed development. I am of the great belief that ones basketball foundation is laid down in the age group that Giles has missed due to injuries. Now as players mature, work on their game, gain more experience, certain aspects of their games come along and develop to a required NBA level. I am not sure of Giles can overcome those two years of missed development. He seems to be a kid that works his tail off, has a bit of swagger and a great deal of self belief.

With Giles it will be about whether the knee holds up and whether he can make up for the two years of missed development while with Skal it will be about whether he can overcome his mental demons. Both have genuine talent, otherwise they wouldn’t be in the NBA but their career will be determined by very different factors. Time will tell how things unfold.
 
#24
We have a clue based on anecdotal reports and highlight clips and direct account comparisons to Chris Webber. Of course we have a clue. As far as his mental progression we have a clue based on his interviews, which are impressive. Like De'Aaron Fox he is mature beyond his years. We don't know anything definitively but we have a clue. The reports are he has been impressive in practices and been able to participate without limitations. It is the Kings who are intentionally being conservative because with two ACLs a two year rehab is appropriate so you do not favor one leg over the other, that is, the older injury.

The two year mark I believe is January 2018.

Vlade said he "fell in love" with his game when they had him in pre-draft, that he is "a beautiful" player I believe were his words. Thats a clue too. His vitals relative to other players are clue too where he will fit and how he will project. If you are referring to having a clue with your own two eyes, then fair enough "you have NO clue with your own two eyes against real NBA competition" but we have a semblance of cue based on the aforementioned variables, at least I do.

I think the Kings know (or think) they have something special. They don't want to rush a guy by 3-6 months when he could have a 10-15 year career. Rushing or non-rushing can be quantified. You can measure agility drill performance, maximum squat, deadlift, quad and hamstring strength relative other players and between his legs, etc. There are all sorts of athletic and health and stability and balance standards and thresholds you can give to him to meet and exceed before clearing him to play. This is where the Kings are in the process with him.

The Kings have a clue and a plan behind the scenes, you just can't see it.
We really don’t have a clue. Kings, and not only Kings but all teams spin a lot of PR. It’s what thye do. Teams sell hope. A hope of winning a title or if the team is rebuilding, a hope of what the future holds.

Vlade said that Papagiannis is a young Marc Gasol as well do we believe that we have Marc Gasol and Chris Webber on our hands? Of course not! These two might actually get there but we really don’t have a clue on whether they do.

Kings copped some bad press with both selections nationally so like it or not these is always a bit of a PR exercise with these things. No issues with Giles, all is good, he is practicing in all drills, he is this, he is that.....everything except playing. Time will tell if Kings are genuine or whether its a bit of a PR spin to sell more hope but there is no body of work that we can genuinely judge on.

Kings also said they had Fox at #2 on their board. Now either there are either being truthful or are giving us a PR spin but there are already a better peforming rookies with just as high a potential as Fox.
 
#26
Wait ... the KHTK and other Kings media might have no clue how good young players are and/or knowingly shovel nonsense for short term fan excitement??? That seems really unlikely.

Kevin Martin as a franchise player.
Thompson and Hawes as the young core / next Webber and Divac
Tyreke as a franchise player.
John Freaking Brockman becoming a quality rotation player
Jimmer
Ben
Papa G draft fall out
Buddy’s upside a week after the DMC trade
Skal this summer

Man, I just find it really hard to believe that most of the Kings media hasn’t independently conducted their own correct assessments regarding Giles and reported only the honest truth.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#27
Wait ... the KHTK and other Kings media might have no clue how good young players are and/or knowingly shovel nonsense for short term fan excitement??? That seems really unlikely.

Kevin Martin as a franchise player.
Thompson and Hawes as the young core / next Webber and Divac
Tyreke as a franchise player.
John Freaking Brockman becoming a quality rotation player
Jimmer
Ben
Papa G draft fall out
Buddy’s upside a week after the DMC trade
Skal this summer

Man, I just find it really hard to believe that most of the Kings media hasn’t independently conducted their own correct assessments regarding Giles and reported only the honest truth
.
How do you suggest they do this? From what I understand, practices are closed.
 
#28
How do you suggest they do this? From what I understand, practices are closed.
My premise above is that these media members watch pretty much every game either: (1) aren't good at drawing objective and reasonable conclusions about what they see; and/or (2) they aren't forthcoming or objective about their conclusions because it's not what listeners, viewers, readers want to consume.

I suppose your post might pertain only to sizing up Giles as he can only be observed in practice and this thread has a Giles title. If so, that's fair but isn't responsive to what I was talking about in post 26.

The specific post you are quoiting says, the Kings media watches a ton of the Kings basketball but they have a long track record of being really really bad about giving objective and accurate projections for several players. And the reply is "Hey. They can't watch practices" I don't think the amount of input is materially coloring the output. Do you?

I think it's more about the fact that their shrinking audience doesn't like bad news and isn't particular interested in objectivity when it doesn't comport with their views and hopes regarding the Kings. And that most of them are directly or indirectly employed by the team.
 
#29
I don't understand the C-Webb comparisons. Are people seriously comparing 17yearold Giles to C-Webb? Giles at Duke did not look like anything special. In his limited PT, he looked like another college backup big. To compare him to C-Webb is insane. We haven't seen Giles play at a high level since his junior year of HS. Let that sink in.

Remember, Giles said he was 100% healthy. If he were 100% healthy, why would the Kings hold him back? To make sure he's 500% healthy? There's clearly something going on. I'm not saying it's bad, but if you make a connection between his play in college and his injuries, he's clearly being held back for a reason.

There is a reason why Embiid went #3 even with the injury that many pointed could be Oden-like. Then, there's Giles who went #20. His college tape did not impress me. I'm also not going to put hype around a kid purely due to what I saw 2-3years ago in highschool.
Being healthy is not the same as being recovered. What made Giles the #1 recruit in high school was his outstanding combination of power, agility and explosiveness matched with an elite motor. Even if he is healthy, the explosiveness is not back yet.

I mean, just watch this:

This was in 2015 before his second ACL. That is the player that was ranked #1.

If you want to see what Giles could become you need to get way back. Luckily, Youtube has a lot of Team USA games available, for example the FIBA 2014 U17 games, here USA vs Japan.

Giles is the starting PF easily detectable wearing red shoes. Game starts at 10:30. First possession: Giles gets the OREB and throws down a power dunk..The thing is, he was never known for his skill level. In fact, I think he is behind the curve in terms of feel etc. No, the attraction of Giles was always his elite tools+motor. If he can get back to that level you may have something. But it is going to take time.
 
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#30
Being healthy is not the same as being recovered. What made Giles the #1 recruit in high school was his outstanding combination of power, agility and explosiveness matched with an elite motor. Even if he is healthy, the explosiveness is not back yet.

I mean, just watch this:

This was in 2015 before his second ACL. That is the player that was ranked #1.

If you want to see what Giles could become you need to get way back. Luckily, Youtube has a lot of Team USA games available, for example the FIBA 2014 U17 games, here USA vs Japan.

https://youtube.com/watch?t=1209s&v=FyAnp8iCOyc

Giles is the starting PF easily detectable wearing red shoes. Game starts at 10:30. First posession: Giles gets the OREB and throws down a power dunk..The thing is, he was never known for his skill level. In fact, I think he is behind the curve in terms of feel etc. No, the attraction of Giles was always his elite tools+motor. If he can get back to that level you may have something. But it is going to take time.
Holding him out was the righ thing to do just get stronger first no rush.

Also for me he doesn’t even need to be that guy at Duke he was still a great rebounder. If he could start and be a good rebounder, finisher, passer, and solid defender than it’s a home run.