[Grades] GRADES vs. Pacers, 10/31/17

Tonight's MVP


  • Total voters
    14

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#1
What's better on a nice Hallow's Eve than an absolute bunker buster of a horror story?

Bogdan Bogdanovic (B-) --
Yet another solid game for the Serb. While he missed some shots, there was never really any doubt as to Bogdan's position as a competent basketball player (something that you actually had to wonder about when it came to several other performances on the night). Had a couple more crafty moves on the offensive end and, while I appreciate the unselfishness, I kinda wish Bogy would take charge and shoot the ball more since he at least seems capable of occassionally finding the bottom of the net. On defense, I thought he played well within the team concept and, matched up on Darren Collison for a surprising amount of time, didn't get his ass handed to him, which immediately made him our best defender on the night.

Zach Randolph (C-) --
Here's an exaggerated summary of Z-Bo's night: iso post up miss, iso post up make, iso post up, random corner three pointer attempt, more isos, slow reaction time on the boards. Overall, it was a less-than-good night from the Indiana native but one that came with the caveat that there were times when it seemed like he was the only guy in a purple jersey capable of not pooping himself on offense. On defense, Z-Bo is slow-footed and thus largely relegated to the traditional center role of standing around in the key to protect the rim (not happening) and box out (he still does this) and rebound (this happens less than it used to). Wasn't matched up with Al Jefferson, which is probably a good thing because I'm pretty sure the collision of the two old traditional big men would have opened up a singularity right there in the Canseco Fieldhouse (is it still called that?)

Willie Caulie-Stein (C-) --
So here's the thing: Willie played really really good in the third quarter. Sure, he was abysmal at times during the rest of the game but during that third quarter he was everywhere on defense and attacking the boards with the aggressiveness that he so often forgets to bring when he plays. On defense, Willie gets caught ball watching at least a half dozen times a game and, while he's fast enough to cover for some of his mistakes, he's not fast enough to just leave his guy open under the rim so he can try to help one of his guards. On offense, Trill is still frustratingly tentative at times, failing to attack the rim off the ball to give lanes to his guards and sorta floundering when he touches the ball at the top of the key in Joerger's pseudo-Princeton system. As it's a problem any of our non-Greek bigmen seem to be having, I'm not sure how much of that is his fault.

Buddy Hield (F) --
Holy moley. At a certain point, you just run out of words to describe what's been happening with Buddy. Touted as a shooter, Buddy is now shooting threes at a worse clip than Zach flippin' Randolph. On defense, Buddy is at least making an effort but with his utter collapse into a blackhole of despair every time he touches the ball on offense, he's still a net negative whenever he's still on the court.

George Hill (D-) --
So another bad night, another horrible performance from Hill. In the second quarter, there was a spurt where it seemed like Hill could barely stay on his own two feet without slipping, let alone run an entire basketball team as its lead guard. On defense, spent a lot of the night matched up with Oladipo, who is really coming into his own. Hill played him alright but was actually overmatched by him on the other end of the floor. People have been talking about Hill as if he's just here for the paycheck but I'm not willing to go that far yet.

--
De'Aaron Fox (B-) --


Skal Labissiere (C-) --


Kosta Koufos (B-) --
Solid Kosta. I said that Kosta deserves to be playing for a better team in the game thread and I will stand by that statement now. He's a great team defender, rebounds, doesn't take plays off, and generally seems like a nice guy (please note that in his three years on the team I've probably never even heard his voice). There's gotta be a playoff team out there looking for a guy like Kosta, right?

Justin Jackson (D) --
From starter to substitute, it's almost remarkable how little Justin Jackson's customary 5 points of production change has affected by his standing in the team. This isn't to say he's been good by any means but you know what he'll do (or what he won't do, namely produce in any other category). But he's still just a rook.

Malachi Richardson (D) --
And the swirling pit of sadness continues. With all the "Malachi is a dark horse best prospect on our team contender" talk of the offseason, standards may have been higher for the former 'Cuse guy than they probably should have been. Tonight against the Pacers, he looked alternatively intriguing and frustrating. First the good, Malachi is completely willing to take shots, something that the collection of "high character" guys on the roster sometimes can have trouble doing. Unfortunately, he didn't really make many of these shots or take many "good" shots. On defense, he (like almost everyone else) got burned by the other Bogdanovic, which probably isn't going to be a career highlight. Also interesting to note that Malachi played a lot of his minutes against the Pacers at his natural SG slot.

Frank Mason (inc.) --


Georgios Papagiannis (inc.) --
#FreePapa!
 
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#2
Joerger | F- | Absolutely terrible on all accounts.. No redeeming qualities. From the offense we're running, Zbo Hield Hill zero leash.. Unable to energize team in any way.. Better when team was freelancing and not used to any offense.

Zbo | D | Can't really blame the guy.. He's playing his game and never was a good defender... He's just a massive black hole and really old now to make everything worse but he is able to put the ball in the bucket on isos.. This is on Dave for playing the offense through him, Zbo is just going along with it.

Hield | D | I mean he's trying, but he's so so bad right now.. Forcing everything and no confidence in his game. Again, Dave is keeping him in. His D is okay, but he's there for his shooting, and he can't make poop.

Fox | B | Really one of the only signs of life is when Fox gets in transition or runs some pick n rolls. He's trying as well, but in a bad system.

WCS | D- | I'm giving him the lowest grade because he plays like he doesn't give a crap really.. Has terrible defensive rotations and walks around on both ends. The play when we had 3 purple shirts not grab a fast break miss was embarrassing.

Mason | B | thought he was fine. Plays his game for his very very limited minutes he gets

Bogdan | B- | he was off shooting, but is the least of our problems.. Solid player in a bad offense. Forced to put up bad shots

Skal | C- | some of the worst defense and rebounding due to just being frail.. Too much isolation for him but doubt that's on him either

KK | D+ | Just there, and not a good player overall. Not much to say

Vince | B | for not getting up and leaving having to watch this and being put in the dog house

Papa | B | showed some solid play for his garbage time minutes

Hill | D+ | just not really doing anything we want from him

Jackson | C | he's not really NBA ready yet, but he's not necessarily bad bad either.
 
#3
Joerger | F- | Absolutely terrible on all accounts.. No redeeming qualities. From the offense we're running, Zbo Hield Hill zero leash.. Unable to energize team in any way.. Better when team was freelancing and not used to any offense.

Zbo | D | Can't really blame the guy.. He's playing his game and never was a good defender... He's just a massive black hole and really old now to make everything worse but he is able to put the ball in the bucket on isos.. This is on Dave for playing the offense through him, Zbo is just going along with it.

Hield | D | I mean he's trying, but he's so so bad right now.. Forcing everything and no confidence in his game. Again, Dave is keeping him in. His D is okay, but he's there for his shooting, and he can't make poop.

Fox | B | Really one of the only signs of life is when Fox gets in transition or runs some pick n rolls. He's trying as well, but in a bad system.

WCS | D- | I'm giving him the lowest grade because he plays like he doesn't give a poopoo really.. Has terrible defensive rotations and walks around on both ends. The play when we had 3 purple shirts not grab a fast break miss was embarrassing.

Mason | B | thought he was fine. Plays his game for his very very limited minutes he gets

Bogdan | B- | he was off shooting, but is the least of our problems.. Solid player in a bad offense. Forced to put up bad shots

Skal | C- | some of the worst defense and rebounding due to just being frail.. Too much isolation for him but doubt that's on him either

KK | D+ | Just there, and not a good player overall. Not much to say

Vince | B | for not getting up and leaving having to watch this and being put in the dog house

Papa | B | showed some solid play for his garbage time minutes

Hill | D+ | just not really doing anything we want from him

Jackson | C | he's not really NBA ready yet, but he's not necessarily bad bad either.
You actually watched the whole game and didn’t turn that crap off to watch the World Series???? Gold Medal for you.
 
#5
I have never read so much complaining as I did in the game thread. Suck it up buttercups. This is what a rebuild feels like.
in a rebuild, you usually have 1 star player and young hungry players. Kings have neither. No, Fox is not a star yet and neither is Skal. Our young players play with dead energy.

We look like an expansion team with lack of talent.
 
#6
Right now this is just a poorly coached team. The veterans didn't just forget how to play in 6 months. The offense that Joerger is running is mind numbingly awful and doesn't fit our personnel at all. I mean these guys are missing a ton of shots but at the same time they are constantly having to look for a shot with single digits left on the shot clock because the offensive sets simply do not get guys open at all. It's horrible to watch and isn't even exciting when the young guys are out there. This high post crap needs to end.
 
#8
Right now this is just a poorly coached team. The veterans didn't just forget how to play in 6 months. The offense that Joerger is running is mind numbingly awful and doesn't fit our personnel at all. I mean these guys are missing a ton of shots but at the same time they are constantly having to look for a shot with single digits left on the shot clock because the offensive sets simply do not get guys open at all. It's horrible to watch and isn't even exciting when the young guys are out there. This high post crap needs to end.
THANK YOU. Ppl actually think George Hill is canning it in due to being paid..this is George Hill. That Vince Carter is a wild chucker with no bball IQ...this is Vince freaking Carter known for the exact opposite in his later years.

It's this darn horrendous offense Joerger runs. It only caters to Zbo, Koufos (lol) and Skal and takes everyone else out of the offense. Conley was the only one under Joerger able to adjust to it and even he exploded to a next level player once they got a new coach and opened the floor up more and picked up the pace.

Why we are running such a slow offense is beyond me especially with guys like Fox in your lineup and a bunch of players under 30. Add that to the stubborn rotations, never making adjustments when players are sucking and you get deflated energy levels.
 
#10
I have never read so much complaining as I did in the game thread. Suck it up buttercups. This is what a rebuild feels like.
Pooty play like brings the forum down.. :(

A lot of things going wrong, but it’s true that Hill draws my ire like few others do. Maybe it’s because the others are young, and I expected him, like he’s paid and has played, to be a 15+ option, not some random average player who has no real impact on the game. Or maybe it’s because he’s blocking my man Frank Mason. Maybe I just have seen a lot of players pass through here and not play as expected and have a short fuse. Whatever it is, man he does draw my ire..

But it’s a long season
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#11
Christie had it dead-on right with his post-game comments: The Kings need to play with energy and pace. They did neither tonight. Three Kings under the basket and a Pacer comes in and grabs the rebound and casually lays it in the basket. Buddy showing the effort and getting on the floor for a ball and WCS and Zach just stand there spectating. No energy. No enthusiasm. Just nothing. And they aren't even one tenth into the season so far! As Christie said, Fox needs to push the ball every time, even if the other team is back. Just circle around through the key like Nash used to if his team mates aren't there to take the pass. And the other guys have to freaking RUN! I just see loping and prancing and lollygagging, but no running. Upon a King getting a defensive rebound, I just see watching the ball and taking a siesta instead of putting the head down and dashing to the end line. Do they seriously want to do a set-up offense with this team for the rest of the season? Are they out of their freaking minds? I just don't get it. It just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

As far as the players are concerned, I just want to say something to Hill. Mr Hill, where the heck are you? Are you there? Is anybody home? Knock, knock. No enthusiasm, no energy, no fire, and definitely no leadership. One of the young guys makes a nice play and you put your head down like you're going to a funeral. Was this signing with the Kings meant to be a stop-gap mini-episode all along? Did you tell Vlade the minute after you signed that you wanted a trade? Because that's the way it looks. Just going through the motions waiting for December 15 and for Christmas to come early. If this is veteran leadership, then please play the rookies instead!
 
#12
Christie had it dead-on right with his post-game comments: The Kings need to play with energy and pace. They did neither tonight. Three Kings under the basket and a Pacer comes in and grabs the rebound and casually lays it in the basket. Buddy showing the effort and getting on the floor for a ball and WCS and Zach just stand there spectating. No energy. No enthusiasm. Just nothing. And they aren't even one tenth into the season so far! As Christie said, Fox needs to push the ball every time, even if the other team is back. Just circle around through the key like Nash used to if his team mates aren't there to take the pass. And the other guys have to freaking RUN! I just see loping and prancing and lollygagging, but no running. Upon a King getting a defensive rebound, I just see watching the ball and taking a siesta instead of putting the head down and dashing to the end line. Do they seriously want to do a set-up offense with this team for the rest of the season? Are they out of their freaking minds? I just don't get it. It just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

As far as the players are concerned, I just want to say something to Hill. Mr Hill, where the heck are you? Are you there? Is anybody home? Knock, knock. No enthusiasm, no energy, no fire, and definitely no leadership. One of the young guys makes a nice play and you put your head down like you're going to a funeral. Was this signing with the Kings meant to be a stop-gap mini-episode all along? Did you tell Vlade the minute after you signed that you wanted a trade? Because that's the way it looks. Just going through the motions waiting for December 15 and for Christmas to come early. If this is veteran leadership, then please play the rookies instead!
If Hill is indeed waiting for that date, like I am, he needs to understand that the better he plays the more options the team has in moving him. If he becomes a bad contract, and less movable, he may just be demoted here. Or maybe his value is enough to take a rough start to the season and still fetch expirings? I hope
 
#13
Can these guys even run in this offense? Joerger is basically telling them to hurry up and wait with the offense he has in place.

Reminds me of the old Niners offense of Run, Run, Pass, Punt that they used for years until Harbaugh showed up and decided to play to his players strengths instead of pounding a square peg in a round hole.

I know it's early in the season but we don't have a Marc Gasol so I don't see how this offense could possibly ever work with the roster we have.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#14
If Hill is indeed waiting for that date, like I am, he needs to understand that the better he plays the more options the team has in moving him. If he becomes a bad contract, and less movable, he may just be demoted here. Or maybe his value is enough to take a rough start to the season and still fetch expirings? I hope
If anybody told me that I would even be considering trading a guy with less than 10 games into the regular season I'd say he's crazy. But after seeing these games, I am crazy and am circling December 15 on my calendar for Hill to be gone. You know what? I think he needs lots and lots of rest. Last season must have been so incredibly strenuous that he's just burned himself out. Give him a cot to lie on in the locker room, some shades to cover his eyes, and some ear plugs and let him get his rest. We'll wake him up December 15. All of which will avoid his incredibly poor performances on the floor from being seen league-wide. We'll say his anemic condition has been cured on December 14.
 
#15
If anybody told me that I would even be considering trading a guy with less than 10 games into the regular season I'd say he's crazy. But after seeing these games, I am crazy and am circling December 15 on my calendar for Hill to be gone. You know what? I think he needs lots and lots of rest. Last season must have been so incredibly strenuous that he's just burned himself out. Give him a cot to lie on in the locker room, some shades to cover his eyes, and some ear plugs and let him get his rest. We'll wake him up December 15. All of which will avoid his incredibly poor performances on the floor from being seen league-wide. We'll say his anemic condition has been cured on December 14.
That’s what I’d do. I’d sit him now, so he doesn’t kill that value til Dec 14th. Mutual agreement. Sounds so good, but so far away..
 
#16
Right now this is just a poorly coached team. The veterans didn't just forget how to play in 6 months. The offense that Joerger is running is mind numbingly awful and doesn't fit our personnel at all. I mean these guys are missing a ton of shots but at the same time they are constantly having to look for a shot with single digits left on the shot clock because the offensive sets simply do not get guys open at all. It's horrible to watch and isn't even exciting when the young guys are out there. This high post crap needs to end.
OR this team has only been together for a couple of weeks. Most of the talent are rookies and second year guys still finding thier way in the NBA. Anyone expecting more has your expectations set way beyond reality. 40 games in we may start to see a cohesive team.
 
#17
If anybody told me that I would even be considering trading a guy with less than 10 games into the regular season I'd say he's crazy. But after seeing these games, I am crazy and am circling December 15 on my calendar for Hill to be gone. You know what? I think he needs lots and lots of rest. Last season must have been so incredibly strenuous that he's just burned himself out. Give him a cot to lie on in the locker room, some shades to cover his eyes, and some ear plugs and let him get his rest. We'll wake him up December 15. All of which will avoid his incredibly poor performances on the floor from being seen league-wide. We'll say his anemic condition has been cured on December 14.
Or maybe he tweaked his groin a week and a half ago yet is still playing but is hampered by it.
 
#19
in a rebuild, you usually have 1 star player and young hungry players. Kings have neither. No, Fox is not a star yet and neither is Skal. Our young players play with dead energy.

We look like an expansion team with lack of talent.
In a rebuild, you are hoping to get a star or 2 and then add other good players around them. That is why teams are so reluctant to start one. If you already have a star, then you would simply try to build a team around him.
 

Larry89

Disgruntled Kings Fan
#20
Signs of life in the 3rd.... offense still slow in 1st half.. I think we're averaging under 40 pts in the 1st half this year...

Buddy - Needs to come off the bench, his defense is hustling and good, his offense seems to suffer from it.
WCS - Looks very soft out there and doesnt cut hard to the rim, tends to float around the perimeter on pick and roll
Skal - Looks slow footed out on the perimeter, but getting tougher in the paint game by game
Malachai - Looks like he is adept at drawing contact, but the added weight may have messed with his shot.
Hill - System player on a team with no system
Zach - Looks tastier than my pot roast that was cooking for 10 hours
Fox - Flashes and then flaws
 
#21
Papa G showed, how you make this offense work as a big. Set good screens and roll hard. I dont think the offense fits our players very well, but when you are at least decisive and eager to make things happen as a player, we should still be somewhat competitive.

I hope at some point throughout the season Papa gets more minutes. He is literally the only young big in our roster, who has some fight in him.
 
#22
The only upside to the game was that Turner was out and we were not reminded who we picked WCS over. At this point I'm over WCS maybe its because Derrick Williams did the same thing to me (hair styles included) but I can't keep thinking yeah eventually he will play hard and aggressive every game like he does once in every 10.

Aside from Fox/Bogdanovic the only thing to actually look forward to is trades when we can move Hill/Z-Bo (doubt anyone touches him) and a maybe 1-2 of our young guys. Would not mind bringing in some high energy guys who can run the floor like a Faried (unhappy in Denver) and a couple of others.
 
#23
THANK YOU. Ppl actually think George Hill is canning it in due to being paid..this is George Hill. That Vince Carter is a wild chucker with no bball IQ...this is Vince freaking Carter known for the exact opposite in his later years.

.
A low IQ chucker is sadly exactly what Vince Carter has been since he left the Dallas Mavericks and joined Memphis he's shot sub 40% in every season while consistantly taking wild quick 3's and contested fade-away 2's. The only thing he actually does well is play good post defense something he's always done well. With the likes of Thabo still on the market and a couple of other guys who can mentor and actually play he was a fairly terrible choice.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#24
Papa G showed, how you make this offense work as a big. Set good screens and roll hard. I dont think the offense fits our players very well, but when you are at least decisive and eager to make things happen as a player, we should still be somewhat competitive.

I hope at some point throughout the season Papa gets more minutes. He is literally the only young big in our roster, who has some fight in him.
Yep. Willie and Skal almost always make tentative half-hearted moves towards the hoop at best after getting the ball to their guards and pretty fail either way to make their presence known to their guards at a juncture conducive to a watchable offense.

Papa and Kosta, for better or worse, have had it pounded into their brains that they need to attack the paint hard after getting the ball to their guards, thus, while predictable, giving their guards a clear option for a pass.
 
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#25
In a rebuild, you are hoping to get a star or 2 and then add other good players around them. That is why teams are so reluctant to start one. If you already have a star, then you would simply try to build a team around him.
Typically, with a rebuild you control your picks going forward.

If you don’t, and often even if you do, you try to land elite prospects with high draft picks and use your cap space to obtain any long term assets.

Vlade blew two years of cap space on guys who can’t play or at least don’t help this team. He also took the value of the 10 pick in a deep draft and broke that into poor man’s Francisco Garcia to fill a roster hole and take a flyer on lottery ticket Giles.

Hopefully Giles is really good, because the Kings seem to have obtained very little for the 10 pick and a ton of cap space. By the way, cap space next summer will be pretty valuable again for teams that have it.
 
#26
Buddy - Needs to come off the bench, his defense is hustling and good, his offense seems to suffer from it.
WCS - Looks very soft out there and doesnt cut hard to the rim, tends to float around the perimeter on pick and roll
Spot on with WCS. What happened to the guy who would get 6pts on lobs from Ty Lawson nearly every game last year? Every PG on this team and even Bogs have shown a willingness to throw lobs so it's not like we don't have the guys out there to do it. He's just out there looking for the Chris Webber elbow jumper on most plays.

I feel like Buddy has the yips or something. It's absolutely mental at this point because there's no way a guy like Buddy can just brick the hell out of everything the way he's been doing. He played exactly like this in Summer League as well. Bricked everything and then had one quarter where he couldn't miss. I really think he needs to play along side Fox. One thing I can't knock is his effort out there. He looks like he's giving it his all on defense and what's pretty cool about the guy is that the more he misses, the harder he plays on the other end of the court. Have to respect him for that.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#27
We've heard that Joerger continues to add sets to the offense and that he's not nearly done. Question: Is it a good thing or a bad thing that he's adding sets to the offense? Is he unnecessarily confusing this young team? Joerger knows 1000% more about x's and o's than I do. I'm just looking at it from a common sense point of view. What do you do when your team is not playing with effort and thinking a lot on the court? Simplify and hold them accountable, imo. How do you simplify? Teach the fundamentals of running a fast break and hold them accountable for not running it. Stop with adding to the set-up offensive sets. It's like pouring more sand into the gears. How about starting with one simple thing: When your team gets the defensive rebound, run like hell to the opposing sideline. Don't stop and look around to see what's going to happen. Just run. It seems like every time I see this team get a defensive rebound, they have uncertainty about what they are supposed to do. How can that be?
 
#29
I like how Bogdan's intensity or attitude don't change when his shot is off. He makes plays for others on offense and has active hands and stays with his man pretty well on defense. He's quickly becoming a favorite of mine to watch. I worry a little that he and Fox may be a little too unselfish together but I love their talent. I really want these guys to gel.
 
#30
THANK YOU. Ppl actually think George Hill is canning it in due to being paid..this is George Hill. That Vince Carter is a wild chucker with no bball IQ...this is Vince freaking Carter known for the exact opposite in his later years.
Hill has been known in the past to be a character guy, no doubt. Canning it because he’s paid doesn’t have to be a conscious thing. If subconsciously he thinks the team is a sunk cause, he’d like to be somewhere else etc it can deflate his spirit/energy so to speak

I think Vince is just old